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#1 2005-10-19 21:20:27

Josh Cryer
Administrator
Registered: 2001-09-29
Posts: 3,830

Re: Quadracycles

Quadracycles are great! I've been reading a lot about them since bicycles were mentioned in the Suicide mission thread, I couldn't help but keep looking. My orignal idea for that thread was that transportation wouldn't be necessary. But a nice light (60 lb) quadracycle is definitely within the realm of possilbity! It just makes sense.

Here's a site with a nice mountian biking quadracycle just to give you an idea: http://www.crank-it.com/

One for Mars would probably have to be a little wider to accomodate a space suit, and we'd want to make it out of very light composites (even though on Mars gravity is a lot less than here, that 60lb quadracycle would only be 22lbs on Mars), you can never be too light. One of the images on the page I listed also has a nice carrier thingy, that could go nicely with a Martian quadracycle.

I would weigh less than 150 lbs on Mars with that quadracycle and a space suit. Using composites or light metals (like a titanium alloy) would bring it down to something like 125 lbs.

I used to bike ten miles a night in hilly terrain here, if we landed in a relatively flat area of Mars (and we would, most likely), I would be able to probably go at least one and a half times that (15 miles) without really getting tired. And I was out of shape when I was biking. So we theoretically, just my guess, have a 50 mile or so range vehicle at our fingertips, assuming good terrain.


Some useful links while MER are active. Offical site NASA TV JPL MER2004 Text feed
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

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#2 2005-10-20 00:02:57

noosfractal
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From: Biosphere 1
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 824
Website

Re: Quadracycles

Actually, there's a good thread on this started by Rxke ...

Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh!

I think the consensus was that the suit would be a problem for bike riding.

.


Fan of Red Oasis

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#3 2005-10-21 18:06:13

Dook
Banned
From: USA
Registered: 2004-01-09
Posts: 1,409

Re: Quadracycles

Not to mention the fact that most of the martian surface is either deep powder or large boulders.

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#4 2005-10-25 18:02:34

Austin Stanley
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From: Texarkana, TX
Registered: 2002-03-18
Posts: 519
Website

Re: Quadracycles

While there may be some serious problems with a human powered bike, a 4-wheeler of some sort is not a bad idea.  Give it big-thick tires and an engine with a lot of torque and you have an excellent multi-purpouse vehicle for simple tasks around the base, such as minor road clearing and carring/towing people and stuff around.  Given that a well developed Mars base may be several kilometers in size.  With it's various facilities wiedly seperated from each other (like the spaceport, habs, powerplant, and  chemical processing facilities) such a vehicle may be a necessity.  The question in my mind is if such a vehicle (and the suiting up it requires) would be a better solution than just using a traditional rover which might allow a shirt-sleaves enviroment.  The 4-wheeler will probably mass less and be more efficent, but it might not be as safe and is an added complication.


He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

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#5 2005-11-22 14:42:00

quasar777
Member
Registered: 2002-05-05
Posts: 135

Re: Quadracycles

i think i mention this in the other thread. in my opinion 3 wheels are better as there is less contact w/ the ground. it`s really quite interesting that 3 wheeled atv`s were banned several years ago. i guess what happened is that kids tended to raise hell with em. i find it amazing no one thought of a simple solution to the problem. make it a chopper.

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#6 2005-11-27 19:40:41

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
Website

Re: Quadracycles

i think i mention this in the other thread. in my opinion 3 wheels are better as there is less contact w/ the ground. it`s really quite interesting that 3 wheeled atv`s were banned several years ago. i guess what happened is that kids tended to raise hell with em. i find it amazing no one thought of a simple solution to the problem. make it a chopper.

I thought 3 wheel atv's rolled easier.

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#7 2005-11-28 08:19:14

C M Edwards
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From: Lake Charles LA USA
Registered: 2002-04-29
Posts: 1,011

Re: Quadracycles

I thought 3 wheel atv's rolled easier.

Yes, the kill rate for three wheelers was particularly high.  I've never spoken with a hunter who didn't prefer the 4-wheeled ATV's over 3-wheelers.  They tend to be more stable, handle rougher terrain, and haul more.  Their greater weight makes them a better workhorse vehicle, too.  (You can't put a winch on a 3-wheeler.)

There's no reason some of those advantages wouldn't carry over to a pedal powered bike.


"We go big, or we don't go."  - GCNRevenger

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#8 2005-12-02 12:50:46

publiusr
Member
From: Alabama
Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 682

Re: Quadracycles

:twisted: I was kinda hoping for this:
http://www.kustombiker.com/about.asp

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#9 2005-12-03 17:28:39

John Creighton
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: 2001-09-04
Posts: 2,401
Website

Re: Quadracycles

:twisted: I was kinda hoping for this:
http://www.kustombiker.com/about.asp

They look really cool but with the wheel in that position do they ride well?

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#10 2005-12-06 15:14:52

quasar777
Member
Registered: 2002-05-05
Posts: 135

Re: Quadracycles

chopper 3wheeled atv`s were around long before unchopped ones. dunno how many deaths were associated with em. imho 3wheelers are less maintainence too. not exactly sure about the winch.  CM, how do you mean about no winch? not enough weigh on the front? no axle?

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#11 2005-12-06 15:32:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

No winch on the front since there is no frame to attach it to that does not move is what C M Edwards is getting at.

3 wheel choppers have there center of gravity in a different spot as compared to the 3 wheeled ATV's so that does change the roll over aspect of the comparison.

On a planet with less gravity it will require more contact surface to not allow for slippage usless you make the vehicle heavier than it needs to be. That is why more wheels are better.

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#12 2005-12-06 19:00:53

Commodore
Member
From: Upstate NY, USA
Registered: 2004-07-25
Posts: 1,021

Re: Quadracycles

Would such repetitive motions wear out the joints on a space suit?

I doubt past or present space suits come with a 100,000 squat warranty simply because its never been an issue, but for long duration missions it could. Especially with all the dust.

I always liked the idea of using blimps for long range trips.I'm not sure how well those would scale down though.


"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

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#13 2005-12-20 13:04:59

quasar777
Member
Registered: 2002-05-05
Posts: 135

Re: Quadracycles

if i were part of design of these, i`d certainly have them heavier than necessary. for one thing, spare parts would be carried, & more durability would equal heaviness as well. the bicycle industry suffered a setback in the 1920`s which many may be unaware of. it`s similar to the 3wheeler ATV debate. this why we haven`t seen that many changes to it. similarly the blimp is still suffering from the hindenburg. bicycles have mostly been relegated to toys by the general public at large. & only since the 70`s, giants like Alan Abbott & Chet Kyle have revived it. that`s not alot of time for innovation. i put links in the other thread for www.ihpva.org . also the fact that American teens turning 16 largely forget about bikes makes for this too. there are wide gaps between the upright bike community & hpvers. as wide as between xc skiers & downhill, windsurfing & regular, harleys & rice-burners. upright bikes still hold sway as recumbents are still too expensive, not as versatile etc..

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#14 2005-12-20 13:09:55

quasar777
Member
Registered: 2002-05-05
Posts: 135

Re: Quadracycles

what happened in the 20`s was this. a guy on an upright faired bike crashed in front of the Intl olympic comittee. from then on modified bikes weren`t allowed in Olympics. no one was hurt except the industry.

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#15 2018-09-18 17:14:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

Small vehicle for once we are capable of staying on the mars surface. Some of which the research can be made with electrical assist motors as well.

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#16 2018-09-19 20:58:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

I have been doing a bit of no weld frame building.

Simple drilling or clamping, using epoxies to build up light weight for the most part.

This would be something for the biking on mars .....

http://tribolttrike.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

The image of the bike appears a bit better in terms pf its build
https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-t … az99fmztak

This one was an interesting steering alteration
http://www.greatuserdocs.com/trike0.htm

single person go cart
https://www.mymydiy.com/go-kart-plans/

This one has a cart basket or trailer in between the front wheels
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2014/05/ … ycles.html

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#17 2018-09-25 20:38:16

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

velomobiles-infographic.jpg

Thanks to the aerodynamic body a velomobile is also the fastest HPV or Human Powered Vehicle around. In 2013 a “Velo X3” velomobile reached an amazing 134 km/h (83 mph) and many people expect the “Arion” velomobile to go even faster when it’s ready for testing in 2015.

http://www.notechmagazine.com/2014/11/t … aphic.html

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#18 2018-09-26 18:51:48

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

Pedal powered vehicles are not all that new but when it comes to saving money they are very good at doing just that.

So how do we connect the pedals to make the wheel move can be a challenge or simple or somewhere in between for what one can build.

https://www.pedalchopper.com/3-speed-tr … component/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_d … in_systems

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#19 2018-09-26 23:16:56

Belter
Member
Registered: 2018-09-13
Posts: 184

Re: Quadracycles

Just make it battery powered.   and I think the wheels will have to be quite a bit wider.   But a light, tubular frame with some long travel suspension would be great just for short jaunts.     A roboticized one could be quite fast, for instance, having the ability to race an astronaut back to a habitat on autopilot at very high speeds.  Just make it wide, light, with big wheels and big suspension.

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#20 2018-10-01 21:18:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

tw4xp-car.jpeg

2016-08-03-08.54.34-pm.jpg?resize=765%2C484&ssl=1

Edit had forgotten just how many designs were posted to the topic..

the last post before this one had the ELF:

https://phys.org/news/2016-01-solar-pow … ybrid.html

ELF, modified bicycle pedal crank, and steer and brake with handlebars. The battery kicks in to take it up to a speed of some 40 kilometers (25 miles) per hour.

The Elf has a solar panel on the roof that charges the battery, which offers a range of around 50 kilometers (30 miles)—or more, if you are willing to pedal.

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#21 2018-10-01 21:31:13

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

c801124c2d2623226238cfa1b687b8f7--bike-gadgets-cordoba.jpg


edward.jpg

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#22 2018-10-02 02:33:55

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,087

Re: Quadracycles

There is no need for streamlining on Mars. You are going to go slowly because of rough terrain and low power and low atmospheric density. There may be high wind velocities but there is hardly any mass flow.

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#23 2018-10-02 16:46:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

You are quite correct with regards to mars but this does lead into the other topic which is a light weight rover for mars to make use of while not necessarily a lunar buggy design.

Something like this could be the tow behind emergency vehicle or as a general use vehicle for site location exploration when we stop to go outside.

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#24 2018-10-02 17:16:42

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,492
Website

Re: Quadracycles

Pedal-powered vehicles on Mars (or the moon) only make sense with a supple,  non-restrictive space suit.  Gas balloon-type suits will use up more muscle energy just bending,  than the vehicle will use up moving in soft dirt.  Tens of meters to exhaustion. Not km.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#25 2018-10-02 19:39:22

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 15,054

Re: Quadracycles

No moon suit unless you can get in with a sealed chamber to depressurize the suit and removing there helmets before thinking of pedaling.

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