Katrina and New Orleans

srmeaney · 2005-09-03 03:07:24

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodie … adishu.jpg
Here is one doing the rounds...

There's a man with a gun over there.
He's telling me I've got to beware.

C M Edwards · 2005-09-03 18:01:41

http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodie … adishu.jpg
Here is one doing the rounds...

OMG, that's funny! Must be a sign I'm calming down about this issue... Can't have that! Time to start another post in the short interval before I start running around with my hands over my head again.

Louisiana will be getting 6500 of the 30000 to 40000 National guard troops still being distributed across the gulf coast (rather than the 10000 we were originally told), but that's not so bad because the overland evacuation they're mostly equipped for is finally showing signs of proceeding at full pace. The Superdome and Civic Center finally have honest to goodness relief centers, and serious effort is going into aiding the groups trying to walk out of the city. In the flooded sections of southeast Louisiana where only boats and helicopters can go, the transport available (boats and helicopters) makes as much difference as the number of troops, anyway. Right now that area's still primarily the domain of the Coast Guard, army helicopters and a bunch of guys with an Evinrude sticking out the back of their boat.

Preliminary estimates about the cost of rebuilding are starting to surface. They vary rather widely, but most are about on the order of 100 billion dollars. (See? Mars Direct really is cheap. ) Best estimates for getting New Orleans alone pumped out are sometime around the end of November. I found no comparable estimates for the nearby areas which also flooded as badly or worse, but not every parish in the area had a levee breach.

Meanwhile, over here, my city is taking over a large percentage of the freight handling that used to go through New Orleans. We're the principle distribution point for the US strategic oil reserve, also, so there should be a fair amount of jobs in the short term and gas isn't too bad yet locally. (Every time SpaceNut's heating bill goes down, we get a warm fuzzy. ) Evacuees are looking to get jobs and rent housing. They are preparing to receive mail, enroll their children in school, and get library cards.

We are settling in for the long haul.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-03 20:29:30

Jeez, this is getting worse by the hour, I hope Josh's relatives are safe.
It makes me sad to see all the people loosing their homes and this with a dam that would have been finished and secure a few years later.

The Fox station admit the whitehouse might have made a big mistake
disturbing video of the event
http://www.ericblumrich.com/wmf/Hannity … -in-NO.wmv
old folks need help, criminals take advantage of the weak, there are looters, rapes and gangs that attack people while kids have no food
U.S. military will send home from Iraq and Afghanistan more than 300 Air Force airmen based at an installation in Mississippi battered by Hurricane Katrina
The mayor of New Orleans is seething over what he sees as the government's slow response to his city's disaster. Nagin accused state and federal officials of "playing games" and "spinning for the cameras."

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-09-03 20:32:01

Australia on Friday said it would donate A$10 million (US$7.7 million) immediately to the American Red Cross as well as sending a team of emergency management specialists to identify what other help could be offered and providing services where most needed.Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, an arch-critic of the U.S., offered to send a team of search and rescue workers. South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun said in a letter to Bush hoped the affected region would recover quickly, while Chinese President Hu Jintao expressed confidence that resilient Americans would be able to rebuild their homes and lives. Israel, another country with extensive experience in emergency-relief, offered to send specialized teams, and Germany offered water treatment facilities, mobile shelters and anything else that may be of help. "Of course, we know that the United States of America has enormous resources of its own," Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said in a statement released by the German Embassy. "But we want, at least, to be prepared if in one case or another assistance is needed and we are able provide it - and we are able to provide a lot in this sector." The embassy also launched a private initiative to raise funds from German citizens, companies and organizations in the U.S. The Canadian military has set aside a number of Hercules Aircraft C130, in case the United States calls, and is in the process of packing a ship with a helicopter, water purifying equipment, and electric generators that could sail for the Gulf of Mexico at a moment's notice.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair led world leaders' pledges of aid to hurricane-stricken areas of the U.S. Friday with an offer to help "in any way we can.""The whole of this country feels for the people of the Gulf Coast of America" who have been hit "by what is a terrible, terrible natural tragedy," he said.
Blair's comments added to a growing catalog of prayers, messages of condolence and pledges of money and aid that have been offered from countries across the globe in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said. The European Union said it was ready to offer any assistance in the wake of "what is perhaps the greatest civil emergency in U.S. history."But despite the increasingly desperate situation on the ground, the Bush administration has sent mixed signals about whether it will take these global well-wishers up on their offers.
The whitehouse however said that the United States had not requested foreign help and didn't need it.

srmeaney · 2005-09-03 22:33:55

The whitehouse however said that the United States had not requested foreign help and didn't need it.

Of course not. The USA has plenty of Unemployed people they can draft into Emergency Services.

srmeaney · 2005-09-03 22:36:51

Curse those Double Posts!

George W. Accused of Racism...Didnt see that one comming.

DonPanic · 2005-09-04 08:09:21

LO

British Prime Minister Tony Blair led world leaders' pledges of aid to hurricane-stricken areas of the U.S. Friday with an offer to help "in any way we can.""The whole of this country feels for the people of the Gulf Coast of America" who have been hit "by what is a terrible, terrible natural tragedy," he said.
Blair's comments added to a growing catalog of prayers, messages of condolence and pledges of money and aid that have been offered from countries across the globe in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said. The European Union said it was ready to offer any assistance in the wake of "what is perhaps the greatest civil emergency in U.S. history."But despite the increasingly desperate situation on the ground, the Bush administration has sent mixed signals about whether it will take these global well-wishers up on their offers.
The whitehouse however said that the United States had not requested foreign help and didn't need it.

Except for sharing E.U. gazoline stocks, european help should be largely symbolic in regard of US means if massively mobilized.

New Orleans flooded areas http://www.nasa.gov/mov/126394main_pia04175.mov

Fledi · 2005-09-04 11:17:31

Hi Yang, do you know anything about the taifun that was about to strike the Chinese coast a few days back? I hope it hasn't caused any major trouble there like Katrina.

Was just watching CNN, that FEMA official is a joke, he's telling they needed time to mobilize the national guard and get them in before they could be supplemented by active duty personel.
Did this Iraq war confuse them so much they don't know the simplest basics anymore?
You send in the regular forces first and don't wait for reservists to get assembled before you do it. And don't tell me thousands of troops appearantly aviable are not enough to keep some f*cking drug addicts with guns from raping and harassing people.
With all the air transport power they could have had them in a matter of hours, not days.

Well anyways I hope things are turning for the better finally, they should accept the water treatment machines, they are pretty new and were built exactly for this kind of situation where you need fresh water made out of filthy.

srmeaney · 2005-09-04 18:58:03

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9189916/

Does this mean that it is the responsibility of New Orleans to ask for assistance from foreign states? If Federal Government is divesting itself of the Authority and responsibility of emergency services, then New Orleans must have the authority to go it alone...

BWhite · 2005-09-04 20:51:07

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9189916/
Does this mean that it is the responsibility of New Orleans to ask for assistance from foreign states? If Federal Government is divesting itself of the Authority and responsibility of emergency services, then New Orleans must have the authority to go it alone...

The Governor and the Mayor did ask for help BEFORE the hurricane hit. Some say the Governor didn't type the proper legal code numbers in her letter asking for help. I don't know the full story yet about that.

= = =

PS - - Going forward? I'd say the message to local government is VERY clear. FEMA and the federal government will not be there to help. Folks, you'll be on your own.

In addition, what if al Qaeda blew a levee using explosives and it took five days for the National Guard to arrive?

srmeaney · 2005-09-05 00:09:26

In addition, what if al Qaeda blew a levee using explosives and it took five days for the National Guard to arrive?

Now thats just too cynical...They dont need explosives, just go quiet for five years, vanish off the radar, and let government contractors do the damage for you. record budget cutbacks on basic infrastructure maintenance.

The reason there are levee banks around New Orleans instead of Sea Walls is because of complacency and failed government. I bet every one enjoyed going to the New Orleans superdome to watch football...That Superdome cost you a sea wall.

Mundaka · 2005-09-05 00:11:29

C M Edwards · 2005-09-05 07:53:40

What I'm trying to say is, forget the politics -- its total hype: I've never seen a serious hurricane where it didn't take the National Guard at least a week to show up (remember, its not that the roads are blocked, its that they are gone.) Most of your ports are blocked by shipwrecks, airports are wrecked, and even helicopters have so far to travel at first that their payloads are limited.

Too true. For example, I cited numbers of 7000 and 6500 troops earlier, but the fact is, that's just how many are expected to ultimately mobilize. Those numbers were based on promises, not boots on the ground. The area affected in Louisiana went at least two days with less than 1000 troops scattered from the tip of the Mississippi river delta north to the Mississippi state border.

As for the politics, I'm getting tired of the blame game. I don't care who resigns at this point, as long as they send some more helicopters to St Bernard parish before they leave. I would consider voing for Mary Landrieu if she ran for president, though.

Now I've got to figure out which charity to give money to. Anybody know of a charity that didn't pocket the cash after September 11th?

I can't help you much there. The Red Cross is giving some of it back. Evacuees are headed for most major southern US cities, and some groups are going as far away as California. If you're worried about what they're actually doing with your money, try looking around to see if there's a shelter or aid group in your area.

Something close will be easier to keep tabs on. :?

srmeaney · 2005-09-05 07:58:36

Yea. Those saftey standard cutbacks in favour of profits are killers.

Palomar · 2005-09-05 14:39:13

*Finally heard and saw the figure I've been looking for: An estimated 750,000 persons out of a job. That includes self-employed.

What will that factor alone do to the economy??

El Paso is taking in 5,000 evacuees...unfortunately El Paso doesn't have a lot of jobs. New Mexico is taking in 6,000. We don't have lots of jobs either. Unemployment around here has been bad for a few years now.

::shakes head::

--Cindy

srmeaney · 2005-09-05 18:21:29

An estimated 750,000 persons out of a job

Estimated 1000000 people displaced
20000 people dead.

New Orleans is being described as a modern age Necropolis

C M Edwards · 2005-09-06 05:26:35

An estimated 750,000 persons out of a job
Estimated 1000000 people displaced
20000 people dead.
New Orleans is being described as a modern age Necropolis

IMHO, those numbers are probably exaggerated, but by no more than a factor of two. I haven't talked to anyone who came out by boat who says they didn't see someone dead.

10000 dead is no better than 20000, and 500000 homeless is no better than 1500000. No matter what numbers you're reading right now, it's already horrible and only getting worse. :cry:

PS - I was sorry to hear about El Paso. Texas Red Cross is ultimately taking the bulk of the evacuees, which means it will probably get the bulk of the relocatees, too.

C M Edwards · 2005-09-06 12:25:31

Another interesting idea would be to somehow get Visa or Mastercard on board and come up with special 'emergency credit cards' which could only purchase certain goods and services up to a certain limit per card when the government declared an emergency in an area. This would limit the number of people who elect to stay behind for money reasons, although fraud would probably be a show-stopper, which is bad, because that would greatly simplify the accounting for disaster relief - aid could be directly distributed to victims without much in the way of middlemen.

This from a news story at wwl.com:

Patrick Rhode, deputy director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said evacuees would receive debit cards so that they could begin buying necessary personal items. He said the agency was going from shelter to shelter to make sure that evacuees received cards quickly and that the paperwork usually required would be reduced or eliminated.

Ultimately not a bad idea, Trebuchet. It just took the banking system and FEMA a few days to catch up. 8)

srmeaney · 2005-09-06 21:33:14

Actually its been pretty pathetic. One "field reporter" after the next with a boatload of folks they rescued...Where were the guys with the guns when you wanted a dozen reporters shot.

Palomar · 2005-09-07 05:12:39

Estimated recovery price tag

$150 billion. How much would simply building up and reinforcing the levees have cost? And partially draining Lake P years ago and keeping it consistently at a lower water level? A hell of a lot LE$$? Yep.

That and other current U.S. expenditures.

On a different note, my small city (aprox 80,000 population) was considering becoming a "tent city" for thousands of evacuees. Ironically, at the same time a local homeless shelter currently housing a mere 43 people is on the brink of being closed for lack of funding. The "tent city" idea has been nixed.

--Cindy

BWhite · 2005-09-07 08:07:19

Estimated recovery price tag
$150 billion. How much would simply building up and reinforcing the levees have cost? And partially draining Lake P years ago and keeping it consistently at a lower water level? A hell of a lot LE$$? Yep.
--Cindy

Cindy, this appears to be the direct cost to the US Treasury.

Does not include losses paid by private insurance companies, the value of homes and property destroyed without insurance, lost wages (lost income taxes on those wages) and so on.

All in all, total cost will be in the trillions. Yup. The t-word.

C M Edwards · 2005-09-07 08:15:36

How much would simply building up and reinforcing the levees have cost? And partially draining Lake P years ago and keeping it consistently at a lower water level? A hell of a lot LE$$? Yep.

Yes, but not by too large a factor. We'd have been able to spread it over decades instead of trying to do it all in six months if the US Congress had deigned to get up off of its collective rump, though.

And we wouldn't be losing nearly the same amount in lost business at the same time.

Palomar · 2005-09-07 08:23:19

*Hi all. I suppose it's pointless to say I am growing increasingly pissed.

All the lives lost, people majorly inconvenienced (understatement), lives absolutely disrupted, an entire major city LOST, environmental hazards, etc. And now the entire nation is ultimately having to pay for what the stupid fucking Louisiana State Gov't could have prevented.

It's inexcusable. I-N-E-X-C-U-S-A-B-L-E!

Trillions? Yeah, I suppose. My god.

--Cindy

P.S.: And the "leader" of FEMA, Mr. Brown? He apparently "didn't know" ("officially") until 4 days after Katrina hit that the Superdome was an evacuee's nightmare. Ted Koppel grilled him on live TV, asking Mr. Brown if he didn't watch TV or listen to the radio; how could he have been ignorant of the dire and awful Superdome situation? And 3 days into it? Mr. Brown mumbled that he wasn't "officially" aware of it until that very day (last Thursday apparently). They should bounce that clown out into the unemployment line and toss his briefcase after him. But no, Pres. Bush is covering for Mr. Brown; he's doing "a wonderful job." Maybe in his previous job with horses...

Josh Cryer · 2005-09-07 08:30:08

Cindy how could the state government have prevented it when the federal government wouldn't give them the needed funds?

Palomar · 2005-09-07 08:34:02

Cindy how could the state government have prevented it when the federal government wouldn't give them the needed funds?

*I don't know, I'm just mad. :evil: Everyone is blaming everyone else. Someone is ultimately responsible for this lack of preparedness and vulnerability. Who? If the Feds, okay...but then I've heard them blaming the State of LA.

Meanwhile corpses are rotting in flood-swollen streets and people are crying and desperate over still-missing relatives. All the jobs lost, how to replace those? What a nightmare.

--Cindy

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