Terraforming Machine

Dook · 2005-04-10 08:21:18

We found water on mars? Uh, no we haven't. We believe there WAS water on mars at one time but now it's all frozen in the regolith.

The process for cracking CO2 to get oxygen is very inefficient. It would take over 100 of the volleyball sized machines running constantly to support one person for a day.

I'm not so sure there will ever be anything more than a few visitors to mars. We don't even know that we can terraform mars. It might not be possible if there is not as much CO2 locked into the rocks as we imagine.

No sane person is going to go to mars to live underground for the rest of their lives. For a part time job? Maybe if there is enough money in it, which there won't be because there is no profit in it whatsoever.

The only people who would choose to leave the earth and live in domes or in caves on mars are those with something they are running away from. People who can't handle life on earth. Their problems will follow them to mars and they are NOT the best choice for any adventure into space.

Grypd · 2005-04-10 14:48:39

We found water on mars? Uh, no we haven't. We believe there WAS water on mars at one time but now it's all frozen in the regolith.
The process for cracking CO2 to get oxygen is very inefficient. It would take over 100 of the volleyball sized machines running constantly to support one person for a day.
I'm not so sure there will ever be anything more than a few visitors to mars. We don't even know that we can terraform mars. It might not be possible if there is not as much CO2 locked into the rocks as we imagine.

Frozen water is just as good as free. Simply defrost and we can get it by putting a dome over the soil and let it heat.

If cracking CO2 does not interest you then crack H2O

And Dook we will go to Mars and we will stay and to do that we need population and we will get them

Dook · 2005-04-10 16:04:15

Ice is not as good as free water but it's better than nothing. As far as cracking CO2, we may be able to invent a better process or make the one we have more efficient but until then we only go to mars to visit.

You say we are going to mars to stay? Why? There is no scientific or profitable reason to put people on mars permanently until it is terraformed, IF it is terraformed.

You are dreaming about a science fiction fantasy. It's not going to happen because it would be a huge waste of lives and money.

srmeaney · 2005-04-10 22:05:54

Even bees must swarm. When the big rock falls from the sky and you ad yours are wiped from existance, the rest of us will be able to carry on.

As many have pointed out, Terraforming and colonization is about spreading the seeds of life, not preserving the status quo.

Dook · 2005-04-11 19:04:23

The rest of you? You think you're going to mars? Dream on. You're stuck in a bad science fiction movie.

srmeaney · 2005-04-12 04:39:43

You are right Dook. No one is going to Mars. Wall street have announced that the decline of the US economy will be visible in thirty years. Then its A dead currency and a Depression.

If we go with the Idea of a Space Commonwealth, They could Contract out to the World and save Jobs and Lives.

Otherwise it's just War after war in a pathetic attempt by failed nations to rebuild.

Ps. It wasnt the power of the United states that gave it's currency value, It was the ethics of it's people.

MarsDog · 2005-04-14 17:20:43

You say we are going to mars to stay? Why? There is no scientific or profitable reason to put people on mars permanently until it is terraformed, IF it is terraformed.

Middle of Ice Age, 13,000 years ago, Siberian reindeer herders crossed to Alaska. According to the team that did the genetic research, it may have been as few as 20 individuals.

The Immigrants to North America did not even wait for the Ice Age to end. All the terraformation they needed was for the ice to melt before they moved South from Alaska.

=========================================

Ps. It wasnt the power of the United states that gave it's currency value, It was the ethics of it's people.

Before the fall of the Twin Towers on 9/11, dirty work was cost efficient and lucrative. http://www.ciadrugs.com/]CIA drug morality.

Somehow, recalling one of the dictators and trying to install democracy in Iraq is not having a positive effect on US currency.

I think the CIA needs to better train dictators, before the US empire collapses. Revive the good old days of the http://www.mayaparadise.com/ufc1e.htm]Banana Republics ? http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/572/572p24.htm]In Venezuela ?

Dook · 2005-04-14 17:46:42

You say we are going to mars to stay? Why? There is no scientific or profitable reason to put people on mars permanently until it is terraformed, IF it is terraformed.
Middle of Ice Age, 13,000 years ago, Siberian reindeer herders crossed to Alaska. According to the team that did the genetic research, it may have been as few as 20 individuals.
The Immigrants to North America did not even wait for the Ice Age to end. All the terraformation they needed was for the ice to melt before they moved South from Alaska.

Exactly what do siberian reindeer herders have to do with settlers on mars?

If you are trying to make a comparison between explorers/settlers on earth and the same on mars you are choosing to ignore some very key, very costly, and very deadly differences.

MarsDog · 2005-04-14 17:59:15

Point was Human ingenuity.

The ability to understand and improvise propelled humans from Africa 50,000 years ago. And we are getting better.

Dook · 2005-04-14 18:32:45

I think our disagreement lies in two areas: time frame and purpose.

There may very well be millions of people on mars someday but I believe not until it is terraformed-with an atmosphere. It will be for the purpose of science, not because the earth is a target for renegade asteroids.

You believe that people will flock to this dangerous new desert world with their families or to start families that will have to live in caves or domes, breathe stale air everyday, eat a much smaller variety of foods, and work very, very hard with much less entertainment options.

And this is all supposed to happen for what purpose? To keep the human race ongoing in case of a planet destroying asteroid? Good luck getting anyone, other than scientists, to go to mars.

Also, what if the damn asteroid hits Mars instead of the earth!

MarsDog · 2005-04-16 13:59:03

There might not be great planning or noble purpose. Out of boredom, in search for a thrill, a bungee jumper will want to try it on Mars.

Explorers and hermits opened up new areas. Even now, people will pay large sums just for sub orbital trip. No shortage of people, once the price comes down.

srmeaney · 2005-04-16 22:31:46

And this is all supposed to happen for what purpose? To keep the human race ongoing in case of a planet destroying asteroid? Good luck getting anyone, other than scientists, to go to mars.
Also, what if the damn asteroid hits Mars instead of the earth!

Then they will be preaching of the righteousness of Earthlings

You believe that people will flock to this dangerous new desert world with their families or to start families that will have to live in caves or domes, breathe stale air everyday, eat a much smaller variety of foods, and work very, very hard with much less entertainment options.

Like the old guys say, Its about the right Stuff. People will go. They will go because they see a future beyond the boundary of this small world.

The ability to understand and improvise propelled humans from Africa 50,000 years ago. And we are getting better.

Actually they left because they didnt like the government.

ps. anyone interested in a copy of the basic idea of an Olympus Mons Colony, harass Cindy. Maybe ecrase_l_lnfame will send you one.

MarsDog · 2005-04-20 23:34:55

Terraformation decisions are in the far future.
Removing the roofing of greenhouses may not become an urgent goal.

After a decade or 2 of improving robots, rovers and remote sensing satellites,
Mars will be well mapped for resources and convenient settlement sites.
US, having gathered basic information, is not guaranteed first Martian footprint

Martian history might become a repeat of the
Colonial Period 1607-1775, with different colonizing nations ?

Darkstar · 2005-04-26 06:41:30

The first thing we need to do is find a way to get enough plants and trees to MARS. The trees and plants would thrive on the Carbon Dixoide on MARS and produce oxygen yeah it would take along time but there is no easy solution so why waste time lets begin now maybe a forest will popup at least in that area where the forest is one could breath and that's where we would build our factories and facilities

Dook · 2005-04-26 16:58:23

Mars temperatures are in the -100 degree range so the plants and trees would freeze solid.

The whole point of terraforming is to warm the planet enough so that carbon dioxide outgasses from the regolith, further warming the planet enough so that water can exist on the surface instead of being frozen solid.

Darkstar · 2005-04-27 03:30:33

Does anyone know if it is possible to genetically modify a plant or tree to resist temperatures such as -100 degrees? I don't want to wait to warm the planet up we got to find a way to grow plants and trees on MARS now in the condition its currently in. Is there also anyway we could produce light on Mars without the sun and would a plant or tree grow in that type of environment with artificial light? House plants in my own home grow without light from the sun there just growing using the light from our lightbulbs so it has to be possible. I know certain trees have become resistant to fire so there has to be a way to genetically modify a plant or tree to resist extreme cold temperatures. We could still attempt to warm up the planet the way most of you have proposed but we should start now to grow plants and trees it would be a very important breakthrough for mankind if we succeed

SpaceNut · 2005-04-27 13:24:49

Well even if you could get them to grow in those temperatures. There still is the matter of no water for it would be frozen. So it looks like a bubble world of domes and greenhouses or waiting to terraform the planet.

Martian Republic · 2005-04-27 13:42:04

Actually, we have several problems with trying to grow trees on Mars and we would have to solve all those problem or we can't get trees to grow on Mars. The problems are, too cold, atmosphere has the wrong chemical makeup, the atmosphere is too thin. The Martian Atmosphere is 1% to .7% as think as the Earth Atmosphere is in density and that is way too thin of an atmosphere to grow tree in. We will have to increase the density of Martian Atmosphere by at least 10% to 15% of the density of the Earth Atmosphere in order to be able to grow much of anything on Mars.

Larry,

MarsDog · 2005-04-28 22:46:45

Does anyone know if it is possible to genetically modify a plant or tree to resist temperatures such as -100 degrees?

On Earth evolution was in liquid water.

On Mars, if you made a sea of C3F8 (or similar wide range liquid)
(Boiling Point @ 101.325 kPa = -34.1°F Freezing Point = -297.4°F)
Things may dissolve in it, but molecular energies are low, and evolution would be extra slow, impossible ?

Maybe, sometime in the future, the complete life cycle of a genetic code could be run on a computer; and then artificial genes to produce an artificial cyrogenic tree ?

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