Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

Manchu4 · 2005-02-10 15:45:21

I would like to introduce myself to the forum members. I am not a space scientist but have a science background(Geology)I was born in 1957 and have followed the US and USSR ventures into space. I am an avid reader of science fiction, (Asimov, Clarke, the list goes on) but read anything fact based on the space program as well. My basic question, that I would like to explore : Should we spend the resources that we have in developing robotic exploration vehicles or should we spend our resources on manned exploration of the solar system? Personally, I lean toward putting on money on robotic systems. However, I am sure there are members here who could enlighten me on the counter-argument. Thanks for your consideration

Grypd · 2005-02-10 17:47:16

In my opinion it is a blend of both that would prove the best way forward. Robotics will help build and explore and find the things that we need doing. But it will only be so that we can send people with the mk 1 eyeball to do the thorough job but still with robots in the background in a support role. And another technology in telerobotics will mean that we can have robots there with Human intelligence there with them.

Oh ps welcome to new Mars

Dook · 2005-02-10 17:49:59

Welcome to the forum!

I think most of us, if not all, want a manned mission to mars. Machines have done great so far and I hope the Mars Sample Return Mission goes well but it's not the same as leaving footprints. How much attention do people give to the landers? A day or two at the most.

What if we had never really sent humans to the moon and only landed robots instead?

We need to go there. We need people to drive along the surface, stopping here and there to turn over a rock or drill a soil sample. I want to hear what's it's really like to be on mars, from a person, not numbers from an intelligent calculator.

SpaceNut · 2005-02-10 20:15:18

Welcome to newmars Manchu4: Like yourself I too am no scientist, and have followed all events of space.
Having watched the old black and white tv images of the lunar landings and more. I to feel that the robotic probes have down a fantastic job but at some time it is mans turn to go and to make his presence on other surfaces in space beyound Earth known.

Martian Republic · 2005-02-10 20:45:27

I would like to introduce myself to the forum members. I am not a space scientist but have a science background(Geology)I was born in 1957 and have followed the US and USSR ventures into space. I am an avid reader of science fiction, (Asimov, Clarke, the list goes on) but read anything fact based on the space program as well. My basic question, that I would like to explore : Should we spend the resources that we have in developing robotic exploration vehicles or should we spend our resources on manned exploration of the solar system? Personally, I lean toward putting on money on robotic systems. However, I am sure there are members here who could enlighten me on the counter-argument. Thanks for your consideration

If we are going to do just scientific work on the moon, mars, asteroids and other moons and planet in this solar system, then going robotics is the way to go. It is the cheapest way to go and the most cost effective way to do something.

However the general public would probably lose interest in it, beside space would have limited uses for mankind if we just go with robotics. But, if we go with manned flight and colonies on either the moon or mars or if we choose to go to one of those asteroids, it will be expensive. But once we do it, we expand the horizon of man kind to maybe colonies on the moon, mars and the asteroids, but it will take a long time to do this. There will also be technological spin off that will advance human society as a result of manned flight also. The Kennedy Moon mission created jobs and technological spin off that was very beneficial to the United States.

Larry,

RobS · 2005-02-10 22:49:30

Welcome, welcome! I am a geologist as well, or I was until twenty years ago, when I switched fields.

You can go either way, but consider an astronaut in a spacesuit could have explored the same area as either of the Mars rovers in about two days. That's about 200 times faster. An astronaut is also more likely to poke around and find things interesting that the rovers can't spot.

Astronauts on Mars could drive rovers faster, also, because there won't be a time delay. Astronauts at one spot on Mars could be exploring several parts of the planet at once.

Research is starting on ways astronauts and robots could work together on the Martian surface so that we have the strengths of both, also.

-- RobS

Rxke · 2005-02-11 01:33:09

Hi, Manchu4, and welcome to NewMars!

Well... for one thing, as a geologist, I'm sure you'd appreciate a pair of real human eyes and hands on the ground, able to amble around, seemingly aimlessly, picking up bits and pieces, again, seemingly uncousciously, like only a human can do, in order to get 'the picture' of a site in record time.
As a geologist, again, you sure know NASA sent only one scientist to the moon... A geologist! So they surely appreciate the unique hands-on capabilities of trained humans

Harrison H. Schmitt, was the lucky one, much to the chagrin of the 'real' astronauts, that saw a precious seat taken up by a 'sissy scientist...' But go to the NASA site, look for the audio snippets from Apollo 17... Awesome descriptions from Schmitt, makes your heart go faster... Priceless, IMO.

The Apollo 17 crew spent a measly 75 hours on the Moon, but crossed 35 kilometersmiles) of Lunar terrain and collected a total of 110 kilograms (225 pounds) of lunar samples, to give you an idea.

Compare that with the mileage and sample takings of Spirit and Opportunity, rovers I truly love, but which spent over a year on Mars... they seem a bit retarded, in comparison.
Of course, there's the huuge cost-difference... But as I said... In my opinion, a geologist on Mars, prodding and stumbling, going into enthousiastic rambles, would be priceless...

Martin_Tristar · 2005-02-11 03:12:47

Welcome Manchu4,

Robotic Droids and other remote vehicles can be controlled by humans near or far from the location and also they could assist humans in exploration, colonization and settlement of the moon, mars and beyond.

We could also develop team based robotic systems that act in networked workgroups that could be supervisor or lead by a human team leader / supervisor it depends on the complexity of the software managing these droids and the capacity of the droids and memory functions.

The shuttle arm is a robotic device controlled by humans and the ISS Arm is a larger variation of the shuttle's arm. For the Lunar Mining operations we could use a GPS Navigation system to monitor location and operations of mining droids. It depends on the research and development of the robotic systems for space applications for earth-orbit, on the moon, going and landing on mars and beyond.

Manchu4 · 2005-02-11 14:21:04

I would like to thank the forum members for their constructive comments. By the way, my science background in geology ended with me getting the degree in it. I decided to be a land surveyor instead. I do agree that robotic exploration can find areas on Mars that need a closer look. A geologist/paleontologist with a rock hammer could do the work of 6 month rover mission in an afternoon. I will not be that geologist but I sure would like to see one there in my lifetime. It's just a feeling, but with water, of which there is abundant evidence, lifeforms primitive perhaps is just one turnover of a rock away. Perhaps when I'm 70 or so I'll see that first geologist find it on Mars. Thanks again.

Rxke · 2005-02-11 15:00:30

And me thinking another heated debate was going to ensue!

I guess we're all simply *impatient* to see humans on Mars...
despite the quite spectacular speed at which robotics/computing increases, satisfying telepresence is still a way off...
people laugh when they see honda's robot, but I'm very,very impressed. And one day, surely his descendants will walk around on Mars, doing interesting things.

But it's not the same... Or one should be able to upload a human brain into the machines (which is not that far off, if you extrapolate progression in computerspeed...around 2010-15, a $1000 computer will have the same computingcapabilities of a human brain... Of course, you still will have to igure a way to do something with that power, heh...)

Rambling, rambling.

Manchu4 · 2005-02-11 15:14:57

Sorry to disaapoint you on the heated debate. But I guess the reason I still favor robotic exploration is not so much as my belief in their superiority to men but in NASA's dismal record when it comes to manned spaceflight. We are I believe wasting time and resources with the shuttle and ISS for what? Just another delay, on the road to doing real exploration.

Rxke · 2005-02-11 15:29:31

Well...

I'm still hoping...
My first post on this forum was an extatic one... about Zubrin speaking for the commission about how we spent the last two decades spinning around in LEO, doing nothing for manned exploration.

And I saw some people being clearly impressed by his statements. "Zubrin makes homerun," I wrote.
And some time later, GWB presents the new initiative, out of LEO, on to Luna, later maybe Mars.

Great times.

Now.. getting sceptical once again. The ISS/Shuttle albatross sucking all the funds... CEV still on the drawing boards... Gonna be a long wait...

The MER's are brilliant, cassini/Huygens were/are great.

But it's no 2001: a space odyssey, sigh...

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#1 2005-02-10 15:45:21

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#2 2005-02-10 17:47:16

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#3 2005-02-10 17:49:59

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#4 2005-02-10 20:15:18

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#5 2005-02-10 20:45:27

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#6 2005-02-10 22:49:30

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#7 2005-02-11 01:33:09

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#8 2005-02-11 03:12:47

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#9 2005-02-11 14:21:04

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#10 2005-02-11 15:00:30

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#11 2005-02-11 15:14:57

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

#12 2005-02-11 15:29:31

Re: Robotic vs Manned exploration - Which is better and why

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