Presidential Elections - ...and other political discussion.

clark · 2004-11-03 12:05:21

Afterall, Jesus is his co-pilot. We're set.

So fella's, I see upon the our Risk board that Iran is next to our Iraq territory. We have some unfinished business with this Axis of Evil, how long before we go save democracy and the western world from the theocratic danger of possible Iranian agression?

I for one just hope he dosen't repeat any of those self admitted mistakes he made before- you know, appointing the wrong people. Other than that, his stead fast resolute decision making has been brilliantly conceived and executed.

Allah be praised!

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 12:13:45

President Cheney would be different how?

It'll be "official" because it'll be on tv.

clark · 2004-11-03 12:17:37

Of course Cobra, with us or againt us. :laugh: Conservative cooperation!

BWhite · 2004-11-03 12:19:49

Setting up impossible "expectations" in order to generate the perception of failures to point to, very astute.

So is lowering the bar, a Bush trademark. Other than avoiding public screeds, "wait and see" is all I can propose.

Be careful what you vote for, you might actually win.

BWhite · 2004-11-03 12:21:01

Otherwise, chaos and partisan warfare can be used as well. <shrugs> Cooperation or outright fighting, that seething middle ground serves no one.

Hmmm. . .

Without scapegoats, is your side thus rendered powerless?

clark · 2004-11-03 12:25:48

Of course not, Republican's are the party of responsibility.

Just look to President Bush for the character of that statement. He took responsibility for all his right decisions. Anything that looked like a mistake, well, we can't fault him for being misled, now can we? History, 50 years from now, will judge that he did the right thing.

SpaceNut · 2004-11-03 12:25:59

What I worry most about with the Bush re-election is more terrorist caused attacks and additional wars, that he just might not have all the facts for.

clark · 2004-11-03 12:27:38

Never fear Spacenut, Bush who was misled by the intelligence community is now in charge of reforming it!

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 12:36:07

Without scapegoats, is your side thus rendered powerless?

In this context "my side", much like "your side" is itself a coalition of interests that don't always agree. We like to think of American politics in terms of twos, but the reality is far more complex as you well know.

Give either party total control and we'll still see bitter divisions.

All sides have their share of scapegoats and inherent flaws, flawed ideologies aside. The best we can ever hope for, even when "our side" wins big is to improve conditons from our perspective in numerous small ways. Little that is dramatic, nothing utopian.

As for "with us or against us", this is part of the landscape. Sometimes the range of conflicting interests can cooperate, as after 9/11, but usually irreconcilable differences are part of American politics. Right can't agree with the socialist Left and they can't agree with the conservative Right. Something has to give. Par for the course. A byproduct of free societies.

That said, I have fairly high hopes myself, but I expect somewhat less. It's going to take more than one party to fix the system, and I fear that it can't be done in a fully civil manner.

There will be no gloating here.

BWhite · 2004-11-03 12:38:23

Without scapegoats, is your side thus rendered powerless?
In this context "my side", much like "your side" is itself a coalition of interests that don't always agree. We like to think of American politics in terms of twos, but the reality is far more complex as you well know.
Give either party total control and we'll still see bitter divisions.
All sides have their share of scapegoats and inherent flaws, flawed ideologies aside. The best we can ever hope for, even when "our side" wins big is to improve conditons from our perspective in numerous small ways. Little that is dramatic, nothing utopian.
As for "with us or against us", this is part of the landscape. Sometimes the range of conflicting interests can cooperate, as after 9/11, but usually irreconcilable differences are part of American politics. Right can't agree with the socialist Left and they can't agree with the conservative Right. Something has to give. Par for the course. A byproduct of free societies.
That said, I have fairly high hopes myself, but I expect somewhat less. It's going to take more than one party to fix the system, and I fear that it can't be done in a fully civil manner.
There will be no gloating here.

Dude, be happy. You won!

clark · 2004-11-03 12:42:05

That said, I have fairly high hopes myself, but I expect somewhat less. It's going to take more than one party to fix the system, and I fear that it can't be done in a fully civil manner.

Yet one party is all we have! :laugh:

A Republican controlled Congress, a Republican President who has never used a veto, and now the prospect of at least electing one, if not more, new members to the Supreme Court, thus altering the entire make-up of the country for a generation!

Dude, you're going to get everything you want with second helpings. I am so happy for you.

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 12:44:02

Dude, be happy. You won!

Oh, I'm quite pleased with the outcome, but only because it furthers what I want to happen eventually, not because it's itself what I consider a "win".

I'm just friendlier and less belligerant when things are going my way. The gears of history are turning...

clark · 2004-11-03 12:45:12

"The gears of history are turning..."

... grinding the bones of men.

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 12:47:34

"The gears of history are turning..."
... grinding the bones of men.

As they always have and always will, whatever forces turn them.

Dammit clark, don't be a buzzkill.

clark · 2004-11-03 12:52:12

Right, right mine Fuier!

So, shall we mark this day as the begining of the New Age of the First American Empire, or what?

It seems that we can look forward to removing that aboherent tolerance of allowing women discretion and control over their own bodies soon enough.

We're just a stones throw from enshrining the right of all heterosexuals to feel secure that their relationships shall remain forever sacrosanct in our fair lands from the likes of those depraved misguided sodomites!

And I for one can't wait to see how many more countries we will grind into the dust! Don't worry, the Brit's are on our side, and if they fail, well, we always have the Poles!

A bright dawn awaits!

John Creighton · 2004-11-03 12:58:34

And I for one can't wait to see how many more countries we will grind into the dust! Don't worry, the Brit's are on our side, and if they fail, well, we always have the Poles!

I know you are being sarcastic but I will state it anyway. Even the conservatives in Britain do not share the same social conservative values as the republicans. These values show the level religion influences America over most other western countries.

clark · 2004-11-03 12:58:45

Note to those troops in Iraq... Hope is not on the way.

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 13:02:35

Note to those troops in Iraq... Hope is not on the way.

They overwhelmingly voted for Bush, maybe hope is on the way from their perspective.

clark · 2004-11-03 13:05:37

Not to be pedantic, but if that is the case, then hope would remain. We can ask those who come back.

BWhite · 2004-11-03 13:14:20

What is queer (sic!) is that the USA and the EU may end up fighting more about the rights to be afforded gays than anything else. After all didn't a prominent EU minister just resign over an anti-gay position?

Return to Huntington's Clash of Civilizations theory. Europe and America are on divergent courses and may well become separate civilizations based on differing views of God.

Ironically, Cobra the American atheist, has thrown himself in with the Christian mullahs.

= = =

As for the USA versus the EU, the French have more MIRV tipped H-bombs and "boomer" submarines than many people realize and the Galileo project is not a "civilian" project no matter what the EU-nics proclaim.

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 13:21:26

Ironically, Cobra the American atheist, has thrown himself in with the Christian mullahs.

:laugh: I align with fundies, anarchists align with the party of big government, conservatives run record budget deficits while enlightened liberals shed their human rights concerns for political gain. Strange days, we live in.

As for the USA versus the EU, the French have more MIRV tipped H-bombs and "boomer" submarines than many people realize and the Galileo project is not a "civilian" project no matter what the EU-nics proclaim.

On that we can readily agree.

John Creighton · 2004-11-03 13:27:44

What is queer (sic!) is that the USA and the EU may end up fighting more about the rights to be afforded gays than anything else. After all didn't a prominent EU minister just resign over an anti-gay position?
Return to Huntington's Clash of Civilizations theory. Europe and America are on divergent courses and may well become separate civilizations based on differing views of God.

And where does that leave Canada? Between Europe and USA just like during the war of independence?

P.S. is iceland or greenland part of the EU?

Palomar · 2004-11-03 13:27:50

*Bill, maybe it's time the Democratic Party do some self-analysis as to why they -didn't- receive the majority of the votes this year, and why they lost a handful of Senatorial races as well? ???

Again, I'm an independent voter.

You can seek to exonerate Bill Clinton from post-2000 woes (I myself have defended him in that regard), but voters yesterday sent a loud and clear message to the Democratic Party (who, ironically, received 98% of my vote). I was also surprised by quite a few results.

?

Maybe we can get back to some serious discussion in this thread. Enough with the silly twit "comedy relief."

--Cindy

Euler · 2004-11-03 13:28:53

As for the USA versus the EU, the French have more MIRV tipped H-bombs and "boomer" submarines than many people realize and the Galileo project is not a "civilian" project no matter what the EU-nics proclaim.

Don't forget that China and Russia would most likely side with the EU. If we end up with a US vs EU+China+Russia situation, then I do not think that the US will be able to win.

So, shall we mark this day as the begining of the New Age of the First American Empire, or what?

I think that it may indeed be the beginning of a new age... the age where the US looses its position as the world's sole superpower.

Cobra Commander · 2004-11-03 13:33:05

think that it may indeed be the beginning of a new age... the age where the US looses its position as the world's sole superpower.

In which case we should up the ante.

I'd suggest off-world colonies.

Don't forget that China and Russia would most likely side with the EU. If we end up with a US vs EU+China+Russia situation, then I do not think that the US will be able to win.

It would be similar to a Cold War standoff, no one would actually push hard enough to make either side pull the trigger, any one of the powers could blow up the world.

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