You are President

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-14 07:55:00

Okay, fighting back urge to emigrate...

My fellow Americans, I promise to fulfill the following in my office.
-Ban all civilian use of projectile weaponry based upon combustrion and projection of a lethal body into a human.

How do you propose to enforce that? I hope you budgeted for hundreds of thousands of new, very well equipped police as well as all the other apparatus of a police state. Simply banning projectiles weapons is a recipe for mayhem.

In which case, I've got a recipe for revolution just waiting for the right conditions.

-Full support of the United Nations and initiatives toward a globalized economy and a confederation of nations.

And more recruits just showed up. Here's your newly machined projectile weapon, some ammo, and your black shirt. Okay, fine, you keep the camouflage one.

-Creating an initiative for all U.S. coorporations to switch over to fuels other than those based upon hydrocarbons, and an initiatve to end all use of oil in the U.S. by 2040.

Involving what, precisely? Genuinely curious.

-Stabalize a national tax of 5% for Government from the people for the people(aka. Health Programs, Education, etc...)

Do you have a rough budget, by chance? Nothing too detailed, just some idea where exactly the money would go?

-Decrease government spending.

As Dook asked, how? By cutting what?

-Convert all roads to asphalt and set a national standard.

So you propose to federalize the nation's roads, state highways, county roads, everything? A vast over-reaching of federal authority. Such matters are state and local concerns, as President you can't really do anything about it but ask.

-Provision of work by the government for those with out jobs.

Building roads! So that's the plan.

Or, bring back the draft. Out of work, boom, into the Army faster than you can say "conscientous objector."

Beats nuking Syria into glowing embers and pissing off half the planet, eh Treb? :;):

That said, Dook's plan to raise taxes to pay off the debt isn't gonna work either. Maybe assuming dictatorial powers, but with Congress holding the purse strings any increase in gross receipts is going to be at least partially chucked into expanding current programs or, the gods forbid, creating all new ones. Not to mention the fact that the entire debt is calculated in Federal Reserve notes which are a complete fantasy in the first place! Certificates of Credit, backed by nothing but the government's word. Hell, if we really wanted to be cute we could have the Treasury Department print special IOU notes to pay off the Fed's portion of the debt. All kinds of worthless phantom paper flying around.

Yes, I'm being facetious, I know. But the simple fact of the matter is that it ain't Federal and there ain't no Reserve. Just like the social security trust fund; no trust and no funds. And the surplus? Projections on paper. Never really there. Magic.

Don't get me wrong, the debt isn't just some figment of our collective imaginations. We can't just ignore it and hope it goes away, but raising taxes and trying to actually pay off every cent of it doesn't make sense either. If we cut federal spending to cover only those functions specifically enumerated in the Constitution the debt will cease to grow, and by reforming (or restoring) our monetary system a considerable chunk of it can be wiped away. There'd be some confusion on the part of anyone invested in Treasury Bonds and the like, but not too bad. They certainly wouldn't lose everything, though values would have to adjust along with all other pricing to accomodate a return to currency based on a real, finite commodity. Gold being the most obvious choice.

Until that asteroid mining gets going, but by then we'll have this whole mess straightened out.

clark · 2004-06-14 09:43:12

Friends, countrymen, my fellow American's, we begin this great new century as we have ended the previous one, in doubt of the future, in conflict among our neighbors, and in discord amongst ourselves. For too long we have let the bonds that unite us, the shared light that guides us, wither in the dark shadows of neglect and apathy. Yet in America, there is still hope. There is still the dream that is our United States of America. There is still the brilliant spirit that struggled to found this nation, to overcome the obstacles set in our path, and to forge ahead for the betterment of all. It is with this spirit, for this hope, towards the realization of this dream, which I speak with you tonight.

Let me begin by stating unequivocally, the federal government of these United States of America shall no longer execute any citizen in punishment of their crime. As we move ahead, we must leave behind the archaic practices that do not befit our people. Our pursuit is one of life and liberty, not death and vengeance. The laws of each state in this matter shall be respected, yet my Administration will work with each member state to end this ugly custom, in the hope of leading us all towards a more compassionate, and reasoned future befitting our name.

Our great country, since it's inception, has eternally striven to respect the rights of the individual, and of the basic undeniable truth that peace and prosperity may only be attained for society if the individual is given every opportunity to choose their own course. This truth, this realization, has been a rocky road, and a lesson we have learned in countless ways over the course of our shared history. From universal suffrage, to the abolition of slavery, to the civil rights movement, our great country has chosen to share and expand the basic rights of opportunity and choice among all citizens. Let there be no mistake, there can be no compromise in the realization of every individual having the same equal and protected rights of every other individual within this nation. As such, I will work to repeal any and all laws that discriminate against any citizen of our United States on the basis of gender, age, color, creed, or sexuality. In the case of marriage, the institution shall be respected, but it must be shared.

Therefore, the federal government of the United States shall recognize the union of any two people in marriage, regardless of gender. In addition, those members within our armed forces shall no longer need to hide in shame, or in fear, that because of their sexuality, that they will be condemned or denied the opportunity to serve our fine nation. I have ordered the military to immediately end any and all discriminatory practices related to sexuality, and to prepare for the integration of all citizens, regardless of sexual orientation.

Choice. Opportunity. For all. These are but the basic principals that have guided us through the course of our history, and it is these basic principles which we must forever strive towards. Yet choice and opportunity are not given, but created by work and sacrifice. By the sweat and blood of communities who build the schools, the hospitals, the places of worship, and countless other edifices that declare our shared vision of a better future. Let us continue up this path, for it leads to the endless possibility of what might be, and one day, will be.

To this end, I am directing the expansion of the Peace Corps to include the opportunity to serve our nation by helping to build schools, hospitals, and all other manner of domestic infrastructure. Through this program, doctors will be made available to rural communities, schools will be built in impoverished communities, and the environment will be protected and improved. It is my sincere hope that the younger generation hears the call to serve their nation, and in doing so, receive new skills by which they might make a better and more successful life. To further the opportunity of those that choose to serve, and sacrifice, for our nation in this manner, the federal government will provide college grants, low interest loans for mortgages, and other similar benefits.

This program shall also be open for those foreign-born would-be Americans, those who would make our United States their home. No longer, in this new century, shall we persecute an individual who comes to our shores in the search of a better life. Let us open the door, welcome our new neighbors, and help each other in making America better for all. I have begun the expansion of our Immigration program, and increased the budgets of the appropriate departments so that they might have the necessary resources to process those who wish to become Americans one day. I have also instructed the necessary departments to increase security along our borders, to ensure the safety of our nation, and those who wish to come.

My fellow American's, my friends, there is much work to do, yet there is no limit to what we may accomplish. Our nation has searched for challenges far and wide, and in each instance, met them all with resounding success. Still, our search continues. In part, this defines us. From the splitting of the atom, to the decoding of the book of life, to touching the moon high above, we have pushed the limits of science and our own understanding of the universe. To turn from these endeavors is to deny our own essence. We must continue, and we will continue, for in doing so, we not only expand the choices available to our children's children, we increase the opportunity for a new world for all, today.

I have ordered an increase in the budgets of all departments related to basic and advanced research. A doubling of grants to universities that develop technologies related to biotechnology, nano-technology, miniaturization, cancer research, viral research, super conductors, fusion, and aeronautics. Tax benefits for those companies that increase basic research and development in pharmaceuticals, space technology, environmental research, and other important technologies that will not only improve life within our nation, but the world. For our nation shall no longer dictate, but lead. This century, let us set the example by which others measure themselves, not because they are forced by fear, but because they see the opportunity that comes by our choices.

Let us lead this world into a new century, a new world, and finally, to worlds beyond. For in this century, and by the end of the next decade, I declare that it is the intention of these United States to place a person on Mars, and return them safely back. For a nation set upon a course cannot be stopped, and our nation will not stop until this goal is achieved. We shall go, not because we must, but because we can. We shall make our way to this next world, and beyond, to demonstrate our resolve, to challenge our spirit, and to search for questions not yet asked. History has demonstrated that when great nations choose great tasks, opportunity increases for all. Let us go, as we have come before, to meet a struggle worthy of our people. To achieve that which has not been done. To make a dream come true, and in doing so, make all our hopes and dreams continue on.

Friends, countrymen, my fellow American's, thank you and good night.

Gennaro · 2004-06-14 11:32:21

Since everyone keeps broadening the subject, I'm obliged to add the following from the European speech, which of course was much more eloquent in its actual execution than here presented (no way to compete with clark in that department):

(...)
Europe is naturally rich and materially diversified. Our great continent has within its borders everything needed to safeguard the needs of industry, work and prosperity for all.
With a vigourous protectionism, independence from global capitalism and its exploitative iron laws, with egalitarian re-administration of property and wealth and with several basic and by themselves unprofitable yet necessary functions reclaimed by the state, the potential of the creative and hard working European population can now be fully realized.

With a protected but free inner market, the phantom of unemployment, which is the foremost product of a contracting globalist capitalism eager to maintain an exploitable proletariat, is now a thing of the past.

No great power can build its growth on shuffling of paper money and receipts, only by production. But it's not enough to pour out refrigirators, computers and autocars, the people must have the means to acquire the fruits of progress. Only a wide and secure material base can serve as the foundation for that proud tower. Therefore we denounce neo-liberalism and the globalist agenda.

The more hands ready to make their contribution to the economy, the more prosperous will the empire grow. We therefore welcome the incorporation of remaining willing European nations into our community.
All the same, we still have the duty to decide who is welcome or not. Anything less would constitute the gravest irresponsibility towards the peoples of Europe. We can never be forced to shoulder all the burdens of the world or forced to invite anyone into our house for whatever reason; our responsibility is to us and our families.
Especially not if it would mean the extinction of our culture and ourselves, without which the world stands no chance of reaching the stars. It would be to give up on humanity itself.

The foreign individuals, who came here claiming to be refugees, but who would settle for nothing less than bringing their very own oppression with them and imposing it upon us are now bound for their native soil. We can only hope that they did benefit from our misdirected compassion, frailty and confusion for as long as it lasted!

Just like nations outside of Europe claim the right to exist, so do we. It would be equally impertinent for us to impose ourselves on them, trying to teach them our ways, while all the time exploiting and making a mockery of their culture and beliefs, like if we had continued, through sheer self-deceit and lack of spine, to witlessly shatter the future of our children.

Respect is a two-way street, but it only means we have finally arrived at that critical junction where hard bitten phrases like solidarity with the world may actually begin to have some substantial meaning.
(...)

Dook · 2004-06-14 11:34:18

I like Clark's first paragraph. It's motivating and hopeful but I would change the-friends, countrymen, Americans part. Ain't right to steal from Shakespeare like that without giving him credit.

I disagree with your immigration policy, to ‘open the flood gates’. We would certainly drown. Also many of these people would arrive with nothing and be so poor that they would have no choice but to steal just to get by.

Gennaro · 2004-06-14 13:06:12

Not to mention the fact that the entire debt is calculated in Federal Reserve notes which are a complete fantasy in the first place! Certificates of Credit, backed by nothing but the government's word. Hell, if we really wanted to be cute we could have the Treasury Department print special IOU notes to pay off the Fed's portion of the debt. All kinds of worthless phantom paper flying around.

LOL!

But the simple fact of the matter is that it ain't Federal and there ain't no Reserve. Just like the social security trust fund; no trust and no funds. And the surplus? Projections on paper. Never really there. Magic.
(---)
...and by reforming (or restoring) our monetary system a considerable chunk of it can be wiped away. There'd be some confusion on the part of anyone invested in Treasury Bonds and the like, but not too bad. They certainly wouldn't lose everything, though values would have to adjust along with all other pricing to accomodate a return to currency based on a real, finite commodity. Gold being the most obvious choice.

AGDR! (=absolutely god damn right)

John Creighton · 2004-06-14 13:19:48

But the simple fact of the matter is that it ain't Federal and there ain't no Reserve. Just like the social security trust fund; no trust and no funds. And the surplus? Projections on paper. Never really there. Magic.
(---)
...and by reforming (or restoring) our monetary system a considerable chunk of it can be wiped away. There'd be some confusion on the part of anyone invested in Treasury Bonds and the like, but not too bad. They certainly wouldn't lose everything, though values would have to adjust along with all other pricing to accomodate a return to currency based on a real, finite commodity. Gold being the most obvious choice.

AGDR! (=absolutely god damn right)

So it is alright to steel from people by telling them they are going to get less for all there bond but it is not alright to “steel through taxation”. Alright? Anyway, talk like this does wonders for the value of the American dollar.

Gennaro · 2004-06-14 13:30:24

Well, I might be stepping in for Cobra here, but I think he regretted all that with the bonds or whatever.

No, I'm certainly not anti taxation (I'm from Europe you know, land of all those measly Socialists), the point is that any state budget will have to remain largelly balanced, or inflation will soon get out of hand. A strange thing about free market liberals in practice is they often yell a lot about tax reductions while remaining unwilling to face the reality this results in for state expenditure and related functionality of society.
Gold standard is one of the best correctives in regard to various fluctuations and irresponsible politics.

Dook · 2004-06-14 13:38:32

Let the value of the Amerian dollar drop. It makes American goods cheaper to foreign buyers and foreign goods more expensive to Americans-meaning a benefit for the economy of the United States both ways.

clark · 2004-06-14 13:48:20

Perhaps I should have borrowed from the Bible instead? :laugh: I don't think Shakespeare is without fault, afterall, he stole the premise of most of his plays from elsewhere.

As for Immigration, I think you may be mistaken in your view on the end results. Immigration improves our country, enriches our culture, and expands our understanding of the world. Most American's draw their own roots from immigrants, and really, we should look for ways to engage those who would make America their home, not persecute or exclude them.

A program whereby citizenship can be secured via community work and service not only provides one new opportunity to learn valuable skills, it allows for an individual to invest in the improvement of our nation, for the benefit of those already here, and those yet to come. It helps to integrate strangers into the very fabric of our society, and give them a sense of partnership in building a future together. It also acts as a means for those here to become more aware of others from different lands, a bit of reverse cultural exchange, thereby decreasing fear and misunderstanding as people come into contact with various cultures not their own.

Increasing security at our borders, while also increasing the ability to process people will reduce the number of illegal immigrants and allow us to track people that enter our country. The immigrants can then get tax id numbers, contribute to the social security net, and it should reduce the number of people who are exploited as cheap labor. By bringing them intot he system in these kinds of manner, we can redirect labor flow to areas of the country that have a shortage. The midwest for example is emptying, and many areas in our heartland are actively trying to persuade people to come, or stay there.

It's just an idea, and I personally think it's worthwhile.

Dook · 2004-06-14 13:54:42

Not to mention the fact that the entire debt is calculated in Federal Reserve notes which are a complete fantasy in the first place! Certificates of Credit, backed by nothing but the government's word. Hell, if we really wanted to be cute we could have the Treasury Department print special IOU notes to pay off the Fed's portion of the debt. All kinds of worthless phantom paper flying around.
LOL!
But the simple fact of the matter is that it ain't Federal and there ain't no Reserve. Just like the social security trust fund; no trust and no funds. And the surplus? Projections on paper. Never really there. Magic.
(---)
...and by reforming (or restoring) our monetary system a considerable chunk of it can be wiped away. There'd be some confusion on the part of anyone invested in Treasury Bonds and the like, but not too bad. They certainly wouldn't lose everything, though values would have to adjust along with all other pricing to accomodate a return to currency based on a real, finite commodity. Gold being the most obvious choice.
AGDR! (=absolutely god damn right)

All that paper has a real value. The word of the federal government has worth. Banks in the U.S. and around the world count on it and lend to us because of it. You can't just wipe away the debt. You would ruin banks and U.S. citizens who expect to be paid for bonds they have purchased. U.S. and foreign banks would go bankrupt. The U.S. would never be able to spend on credit again. Something we have been doing for over 100 years.

You can't base your money supply on gold. What happens when there is no more gold being produced but the population continues to grow? Prices would soar and only the super rich would be able to afford anything. The middle class would become poor and the poor would starve.

Dook · 2004-06-14 13:59:58

That said, Dook's plan to raise taxes to pay off the debt isn't gonna work either. Maybe assuming dictatorial powers, but with Congress holding the purse strings any increase in gross receipts is going to be at least partially chucked into expanding current programs or, the gods forbid, creating all new ones.

The President already has dictatorial powers as far as congressional spending goes. He/she can VETO any bill. Only 7% of all Presidential veto's have been overturned by congress.

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-14 14:12:38

So it is alright to steel from people by telling them they are going to get less for all there bond but it is not alright to “steel through taxation”.

It wouldn't be stealing, merely adjusting to the new monetary system. I imagine some people would be as confused as a goat on astroturf while everything stabilised, but no real value would necessarily be lost. For example, the US Mint currently mints gold bullion coins, the 1 ounce coin has a face value of fifty dollars. The price of gold has been floating around 400 'Fed dollars' for a few months now. If the artificial 'Fed dollar' were completely discontinued and gold-backed dollars brought back into use, the $50 coin would actually be $50 of legal tender US exchange.

Consequently, any bonds would have to be adjusted for that change, resulting in substantially lower dollar amounts but no loss of actual, tradeable value. The interest these bonds bear would also have to be adjusted, and that would very likely result in a real reduction of the interest accrued.

Now whether this is stealing or not depends largely on how one chooses to look at it. Or to put it another way, would you rather get an ounce of gold... or a hundred sheets of colored paper.

Let the value of the Amerian dollar drop. It makes American goods cheaper to foreign buyers and foreign goods more expensive to Americans-meaning a benefit for the economy of the United States both ways.

But only to a point. Go too far and you have a depression. Fiat currency is like economic heroin.

Dook · 2004-06-14 14:24:50

As for Immigration, I think you may be mistaken in your view on the end results. Immigration improves our country, enriches our culture, and expands our understanding of the world. Most American's draw their own roots from immigrants, and really, we should look for ways to engage those who would make America their home, not persecute or exclude them.
A program whereby citizenship can be secured via community work and service not only provides one new opportunity to learn valuable skills, it allows for an individual to invest in the improvement of our nation, for the benefit of those already here, and those yet to come. It helps to integrate strangers into the very fabric of our society, and give them a sense of partnership in building a future together. It also acts as a means for those here to become more aware of others from different lands, a bit of reverse cultural exchange, thereby decreasing fear and misunderstanding as people come into contact with various cultures not their own.
Increasing security at our borders, while also increasing the ability to process people will reduce the number of illegal immigrants and allow us to track people that enter our country. The immigrants can then get tax id numbers, contribute to the social security net, and it should reduce the number of people who are exploited as cheap labor. By bringing them intot he system in these kinds of manner, we can redirect labor flow to areas of the country that have a shortage. The midwest for example is emptying, and many areas in our heartland are actively trying to persuade people to come, or stay there.
It's just an idea, and I personally think it's worthwhile.

Nothing against immigration but we currently allow 900,000 immigrants a year. Opening the flood gates would mean millions of new Americans. The primary reason people want to come to the U.S. is because their countries economies are stagnant. Rich foreigners, for some reason, do not want to become American citizens. So how do we house, feed, provide jobs, and health care for all these new people? Take your city, add 100,000 non-skilled laborers, then next year add another 100,000, and the year after that. Now multiply that by 20 or 30 other cities around the country. There just aren't that many minimum wage jobs created and even if there were people can't provide for a family on minimum wage alone.

clark · 2004-06-14 14:28:29

Those who cannot enter legally, enter illegaly, and then are forced into the unfortunate circumstance of becoming criminals for wanting a better life. They are more prone to becoming criminals because it is harder to improve with "illegal immigrant" hanging over their head, are more prone to being exploited, and contribute to the black market and underground economy because they try to avoid detection.

They're going to come no matter what, and we will have to spend more and more to try and prevent them from coming in. It's better to try and reduce the number of illegal immigrants, bring them through the system and into the light. If they're going to come (because they will, no matter if we build a wall or a moat or both) then let's work to integrate them.

This will lead to greater assimilation and will add to our economy as we can benefit directly from their labor via taxes (which we get none from now from illegal immigration). It's a two part approach whereby we increase the ease for people to immigrate, so they do not choose to illegaly immigrate, and then increase security which will really be focusing on those who come through illegally now (which will usually be for less than positive reasons).

Right now, criminals profit from illegal immigration, either through their transportation, or through the exploitation of their cheaper labor. Society loses out. We've been doing it the other way, and nothing has changed. Let's try it my way. Afterall, I'm the President.

I made a speech and everything. :laugh:

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-14 14:41:26

"Paper money eventually goes down to its intrinsic value - zero."
- Voltaire, 1729

All that paper has a real value. The word of the federal government has worth. Banks in the U.S. and around the world count on it and lend to us because of it.

In short, paper money has value because we all decide it does. It's a neat little doublethink trick.

You can't base your money supply on gold. What happens when there is no more gold being produced but the population continues to grow? Prices would soar and only the super rich would be able to afford anything. The middle class would become poor and the poor would starve.

The gold supply has grown roughly on par with population since human civilization began. New gold mines are being developed at this very moment. Your scenario is certainly possible, but not very likely. If we find no new gold (and silver) and greatly increase our population we're in trouble, but how big does the population have to get to overtake even the present gold supply?

The President already has dictatorial powers as far as congressional spending goes. He/she can VETO any bill. Only 7% of all Presidential veto's have been overturned by congress.

And Congress can attach those measures to whatever it wants, almost forcing the President to approve it. No more line item veto, they've got each others chestnuts over the fire.

Right now, criminals profit from illegal immigration, either through their transportation, or through the exploitation of their cheaper labor. Society loses out. We've been doing it the other way, and nothing has changed. Let's try it my way. Afterall, I'm the President.
I made a speech and everything.

:laugh: Time to write "We're annexing Mexico dammit!" speech.

clark · 2004-06-14 15:10:49

Speech writer for Cobra sent me this... :laugh:

A new dawn begins with the advent of a new century, one molded by our history, and by our shared hope for a better tommorrow, for all. Ours is a country divided, a continent in pieces, and a people separated by all our fathers before. Today, I stand before you, compatriots and neighbors alike, to boldly declare in our name, with one voice, for the betterment of all those now, and all those who will one day be, "We're annexing Mexico, dammit!"

Effective immediately, and without any approval other than the one granted by a just and noble god, I hereby declare that all lands, territories, resources, and peoples south of the Rio Grande, are hereby and forthwith, an integral part in name and body, of these United States of America.

In pursuit of this new realization, all current federal leaders of the previous Mexican government are to be given appropriate compensation, and retired permanently from public life. A full and complete census of the peoples shall take place immediately, with congressional districts established by the current parties in a fair and equitable manner, and approved by judicial review. A new dawn begins, and for the people of Mexico, a new opportunity to choose their appropriate representatives in the expanded houses of Congress.

Some may say that I cannot stand before you, and summarily annex an entire soverign nation.

To them, I say, f*ckin A, "We're annexing Mexico, dammit!"

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-14 15:23:24

Some may say that I cannot stand before you, and summarily annex an entire soverign nation.
To them, I say, f*ckin A, "We're annexing Mexico, dammit!"

:laugh: Now we just need to get phase two into effect, "You're learning English, dammit!"

clark · 2004-06-14 15:37:24

Early draft of "Phase Two: The Cobra Administration"

As the beginning of a new day sets into weeks, and the gathering weeks resolve into years, two nations as one, a new purpose is now set before us. It has become self-evident since the glorious union of what once was known as Mexico, to these United States, that a people truly united, must be so in not only deed, but words as well. As we share our hope, our opportunity, and our way of life, let us also bring the benefit of a common tongue to all our peoples. Let our nation sing with one voice, in one language, together, so that distant shores might hear of our mountains purple majesty, our fields of amber grain, from sea to shining sea to shining gulf.

Let the last barrier that separates our peoples fall, and let a new nation with one voice, truly speak in unison. As before, on this brave new day, I do declare for the betterment of our civilization, of our people, for our purpose, to all non-English speaking Americans, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation, "You're learning English, dammit!"

To those who might question the legitimacy of such demands, of such proclamations, I have but one thing to say:

F*ckin A, they're learning English.

Dook · 2004-06-14 16:19:18

Sigh...yeah it's a neat trick that every country on the earth uses. What's your problem with paper money? There is no need to change the current monetary system. Without paper money people would have to carry around blocks of gold in order to make purchases. Can you imagine going into a car dealership, pushing a cart of full of gold bars? Banks would actually have to hold the amount of gold equal to the worth of their clients accounts and move that gold around as people invest and move. It's a very backwards, reverse evolution.

Sure congress can attach spending to any bill and the President can just veto the whole thing. The President is not forced to do anything.

Gennaro · 2004-06-14 17:33:46

About gold, the dollar was actually backed by gold until the late 60's or early 70's (don't remember exactly when it was dropped) in order to create a stable exchange rate for the world economy.
Now, I'm not going to continue arguing this point right now, since it's been some time since I was up to date on the issue and I feel I'm beginning to thread deep waters here.

Let the value of the Amerian dollar drop. It makes American goods cheaper to foreign buyers and foreign goods more expensive to Americans-meaning a benefit for the economy of the United States both ways

Allright, this is correct, but at least it's also a matter of dependance on imports. Expensive foreign goods will make prices increase everywhere in society (inflation) creating demands for higher wages, driving more inflation.
You probably need an almost perfect autarchy for this to work (which of course has many advantages in itself and which the US has practically had throughout long periods of its history and is also something I would intend Europe to become! You basically only need a large and differentiated enough economy. The reason: Keynesian policy won't work without it.)
Moreover, if you have a floating currency, I believe that will tend to work as a way to lump over deficient competitiveness in industry on the citizens, basically cheapen exports by automatic devaluation and let the workers pay for it in relatively decreased wages, at least as far as imports are concerned, instead of creating incentives for increased efficiency (by which I don't mean downsizing).
Then there are probably a few other and more obvious things - or I might be totally wrong - but like I said, I'm too blunt to discuss it well right now.

P.S: If we need more gold that's just another reason to go to Mars.
:laugh:

As for Immigration, I think you may be mistaken in your view on the end results. Immigration improves our country, enriches our culture, and expands our understanding of the world. Most American's draw their own roots from immigrants, and really, we should look for ways to engage those who would make America their home, not persecute or exclude them.

You will be making a mistake. The United States was built by European immigrants (big difference) on a level of industrialization demanding much less education than today's advanced society. That's a totally different thing from mass importing Muslims and illiterate Africans, many of whom are basically at stone age level, not to mention the wildly differing sets of norms and values.
Main problem of late capitalism certainly isn't the huge demand for manual labour, on the contrary, if anything there's a latent labour and production capacity surplus that we're all trying to deal with in different ways.
But even if you could get jobs to all these people that would literally flood America looking for an easy living, the costs, criminality, violence and cultural clashes simply aren't worth it.
We've been down this road for 30 odd years in Europe and it really looks bad. Integration? Well, it hasn't worked from Cadiz to Helsinki, why should you manage better?
Please, learn from our mistakes. It's unnecessary. It's folly.

clark · 2004-06-14 18:41:11

:laugh:

You will be making a mistake. The United States was built by European immigrants (big difference) on a level of industrialization demanding much less education than today's advanced society.

I think you may be mistaken. america was, and continues to be, built by all colors, all creeds. We have a bit more than just the stodgy European background going for us. There is room for more, and there is room for their contributions.

That's a totally different thing from mass importing Muslims and illiterate Africans, many of whom are basically at stone age level, not to mention the wildly different culture and value systems.

Perhaps there is a difference here, but generally, the people who immigrate are looking to improve their lot in life, and to improve the chances of their childrens futures. I can't speak for Europe, but here in the States, hard work can get you quite far- something born out by the great number of immigrants who come here with nearly nothing, both in terms of money or education, and become great success.

My own governor, of my fine state happens to be an Austrian.

Integration? Well, it hasn't worked from Cadiz to Helsinki, why should you manage better?

Put simply, we're American's, we're America, and please don't take offense, but, I think we're better.

See you on Mars, first. LOL!

FrankPoole · 2004-06-14 19:48:08

A gold standard is a check on the government's power to debase currency. It is possible to implement a gold standard today but the moral and political courage is lacking.

The depression was not caused by excessive saving and we cannot "spend ourselves rich" out of recessions or depressions. We cannot create, out of thin air or paper, a viable store of wealth that is indeed contained in gold or any other durable monentary unit. In fact, FDR's depression fixes in 1930 further deepened economic despair. The feds should have done nothing about the depression-sooner.

I am generally in agreement that immigration is a good thing; however we currently do not have the resources to absorb masses from Mexico who will not adopt our language or culture, and further strain our health care system by billions of dollars. We are, however, creating a vast slave labor system with a population shut out of the English speaking world with no better hope for their children.

I will, as president, extend all tolerance and respect for those cultists who wish to worship phi.
Since they will probably encourage, indoctrinate and screen their children for non-violence from birth, I will gladly extend exemption from military service unconditionally and give them bonuses for working in asteroid mining colonies.

Cobra Commander, I'd like you to be my running mate but please change your name to Mr. C. Commander.

Gennaro · 2004-06-14 19:51:38

Put simply, we're American's, we're America, and please don't take offense, but, I think we're better.

Not at all. Hybris and folly.

Gennaro · 2004-06-14 19:58:57

I think you may be mistaken. america was, and continues to be, built by all colors, all creeds. We have a bit more than just the stodgy European background going for us. There is room for more, and there is room for their contributions.

And of course, it's not even true. Until the early 20th century, the United States had free immigration. All were Europeans apart from the African Americans and a few Japs and Chinese.
Then immigration was tightly restricted based on quotas mirroring the national composition at the time. This system continued until 1965 when it was broken up by minority pressure groups acting from a position of considerable influence.
Sorry, but Europeans have built and are continually building America.

Cobra Commander · 2004-06-15 05:57:41

Have to make a note to hire Clark as a speechwriter. Somewhere in the third term...

Sigh...yeah it's a neat trick that every country on the earth uses. What's your problem with paper money? There is no need to change the current monetary system. Without paper money people would have to carry around blocks of gold in order to make purchases.

Widespread use of paper fiat currency is a relatively recent development. The American colonies had some experience with it during the revolution, which was in large part responsible for the Constitution prohibiting it, but it wasn't until the 20th Century that currency backed by nothing but the faith and credit of the issuing government became the norm. Most of those countries employing it have had either serious depressions or complete collapse of the monetary system as a result.

one hundred million Reichsmarks for a potato anyone?

I'm not suggesting we make people carry bags of gold coins around, merely that the paper issued as currency be backed by gold. You can pay with paper bills, you can transfer funds electronically, you can do all the things you currently do within the banking system but with one crucial difference. You can take that piece of paper with a dead President on it into a bank, slap it on the counter and say "I'd like to redeem this." and they take it and give you the appropriate denomination of gold coin.

P.S: If we need more gold that's just another reason to go to Mars.

Indeed, gold rushes have opened many a frontier. Mars, asteroids... there's gold in them thar hills. When we reach that stage it won't be growing population we have to worry about but currency inflation, only unlike fiat currency the inflation will be controlled by the simple fact of being tied to something tangible.

I think you may be mistaken. america was, and continues to be, built by all colors, all creeds. We have a bit more than just the stodgy European background going for us. There is room for more, and there is room for their contributions.

Yes, immigrants from around the world do have something to offer, and there is room... for some of them. But America was built by Europeans, primarily Western Europeans. Sure, there were some black slaves, some Chinese railroad workers out West, etc. but it was Europeans that were the driving force. Remove them from the equation and there is no America, remove anyone else... some other cheap labor force would have been used. While it's politically fashionable now to say that America's strength comes from its diversity, historically it just isn't true. Stating as much isn't a racist statement, merely an accurate observation. Mass immigration from all corners of the world has never been the norm, if we are going to let it become so then we need to have a serious and candid discussion of the ramifications, in which case I'm with Gennaro. It will bring more harm than good unless we make damn sure we can fully assimilate these people, and I'm not convinced we can.

In fact, FDR's depression fixes in 1930 further deepened economic despair. The feds should have done nothing about the depression-sooner.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that FDR's 'fixes' overall worsened the situation, but they didn't help. The New Deal didn't end the depression, World War II did.

FDR gets some credit he really doesn't deserve and deflects some blame that he does.

Cobra Commander, I'd like you to be my running mate but please change your name to Mr. C. Commander.

:laugh: We'll see how it looks after the primaries.

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