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#1 2026-06-02 10:28:11
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Starfall
This is an unpersoned system, although I will bet that it might be able to return people from orbit.
The moderators will have to decide. The site really does not give a good place for this.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VRDGAR
As I understand it, it will be launched by Falcon 9 or Starship.
A capsule with expendable heat shield that will drop off prior to landing. One Parachute with a drogue.
https://spacenews.com/faa-documents-out … -vehicles/
Image Quote: 
Quote:
The vehicle would slow its descent using a single main parachute, along with pilot and drogue parachutes, with the heat shield jettisoned before splashdown. The FAA documents state that SpaceX will use boats to recover all elements of the spacecraft after splashdown.
So, I am needing more information in this. Apparently, it is for zero g manufacturing. If so, then this might be why space stations are not needed.
The concept eventually might make it possible to launch one-time starships to orbit and bring back things like raptor engines, I think.
But of course they want to make $$$ by manufacturing and delivering special products, I expect.
Of surface area relative to dry mass, I looks like.
Ending Pending 
I guess this might be a better place (th), but it is not a probe but more a cargo transport manufacturing system Good enough though.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-02 10:32:01)
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#2 2026-06-02 15:04:05
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
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Re: Starfall
It is sort of unmanned in that its designed for a return to earth container from orbiting platforms. Mostly for science items. But its still another item that we are missing for manufacturing in orbit.
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#3 2026-06-02 15:44:45
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Re: Starfall
Yes it will be experimental at first, but:....
Quote:
“The purpose of SpaceX’s proposal is to (1) enable point-to-point delivery of critical cargo through space on rapid timelines and (2) create a self-sustaining commercial in-space manufacturing market by offering access to microgravity and vacuum, loiter on orbit, and safe return from orbit as a service at scale,” the record of decision states.
The FAA decision approves two reentries of Starfall capsules in the Pacific Ocean about 1,300 kilometers off the coasts of California and Mexico. The capsules would launch on either Falcon 9 or Starship vehicles, going into orbit before reentry or flying a direct suborbital trajectory to the landing zone.
The capsules are disk-shaped, 0.75 meters tall and 3.1 meters in diameter at the top. The capsules have cold-gas attitude control thrusters but no other propulsion system and do not have the ability to deorbit on their own.
The vehicle consists of two parts: a top plate and a heat shield. The top plate is an aluminum structure partially wrapped in an unspecified thermal protection material and weighs 1,400 kilograms. The heat shield is a carbon-fiber structure covered in thermal protection material and also contains nitrogen gas bottles used for the thrusters and other systems. It weighs about 700 kilograms.
The vehicle would slow its descent using a single main parachute, along with pilot and drogue parachutes, with the heat shield jettisoned before splashdown. The FAA documents state that SpaceX will use boats to recover all elements of the spacecraft after splashdown.
So, interesting the Heat shield will be ejected prior to payload splashdown but will be floating it seems due to Nitrogen cold gas thruster tanks contained in it (My interpretation).
The area to volume of the heat shield may be favorable to it being reusable as perhaps it will not heat up as severely as Starship.(My speculation again). Ejecting the heatshield assembly may allow them to land the payload more gently than it could otherwise.
The device cannot deorbit itself, so that is interesting how do they deorbit it?
Granted, the "Mothership can be put on a sub-orbital path" and the devices be then ejected, but they seem to indicate orbital operations as a option as well.
As it is largely a landing without propellants, it might conserve propellants for Starship.
They sure know how to have fun!
Ending Pending
I am sorry I am going to have to push my luck on this.
I occurs to me that a platform in orbit with a mass driver could deorbit these things, and in doing so lift its own orbit. For some products though high g forces will not be tolerable.
So, could they make a disk flinger like the pez dispenser to serve as a mass driver? Perhaps this could reduce the load on the heat shields of the little disc devices.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-02 16:00:49)
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#4 2026-06-02 18:12:31
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Re: Starfall
I'm likely to make a fool of myself, but I can't resist.
I asked this question: "Products that can be made in low earth orbit?"
https://www.bing.com/search?q=products+ … 1&hsmssg=0
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Low Earth Orbit enables the production of high-value, precision products such as semiconductors, fiber optics, biomedical tissues, and advanced materials that benefit from microgravity and vacuum conditions.
Semiconductor and Microchip Manufacturing
Microgravity and the vacuum of LEO allow for higher-quality semiconductor crystals with fewer defects and larger sizes than those produced on Earth. Gallium arsenide and gallium nitride chips, used in electronics and LEDs, can be fabricated with improved purity and structural integrity due to reduced fluid movement and contamination in microgravity. Companies like Space Forge and Made in Space are actively developing orbital platforms for autonomous semiconductor production, which could eventually be more economically viable than terrestrial fabrication
factoriesinspace.com
factoriesinspace.com
+2
.Fiber Optics
Specialized fluoride glass fibers (ZBLAN) can be manufactured in orbit with significantly lower signal loss than Earth-made fibers. Microgravity suppresses crystal formation during the fiber-drawing process, resulting in longer, higher-quality optical fibers suitable for undersea communication and high-speed data transmission
IEEE
IEEE
.Biomedical Products
LEO provides a unique environment for 3D bioprinting of human tissues and organs. Microgravity allows bioinks made from stem cells and gels to maintain their structure without collapsing, enabling the creation of complex tissues such as hearts, liver tissues, and other organ models. This has potential applications in regenerative medicine and organ transplantation research
IEEE
IEEE
+1
.Advanced Materials and Crystals
Space-based manufacturing can produce super materials and high-purity crystals that are difficult or impossible to create on Earth. Microgravity allows for uniform crystal growth, reduced defects, and novel material properties. These include high-performance alloys, composites, and substrates for electronics and photonics
factoriesinspace.com
factoriesinspace.com
+1
.Pharmaceuticals and Biotech
LEO is also used for drug development and testing, as microgravity affects molecular interactions and protein crystallization. This can lead to more effective pharmaceuticals and insights into disease mechanisms that are challenging to study under Earth's gravity
space-startups.org
space-startups.org
.3D Printing and Space Construction
In-orbit 3D printing enables the creation of satellite components, structural parts, and potentially lunar or orbital infrastructure. Microgravity allows for complex geometries and lightweight structures that are difficult to fabricate on Earth
space-startups.org
space-startups.org
.Summary
Products that benefit most from LEO manufacturing share characteristics such as high value per mass, sensitivity to gravity-induced defects, and the need for ultra-clean or vacuum conditions. Key examples include:Semiconductor chips and substrates
High-quality optical fibers (ZBLAN)
3D-printed human tissues and organs
Advanced crystals and super materials
Pharmaceuticals and biotech products
Satellite components and space infrastructure parts
These applications leverage the unique environmental conditions of space—microgravity, vacuum, and temperature extremes—to achieve superior quality, novel properties, and potentially new capabilities that are difficult or impossible to replicate on Earth
factoriesinspace.com
factoriesinspace.com
+2
.Read less
Many of these products will not survive high g forces, but perhaps some could.
What is developing in my mind is a mass driver system that can shoot out payloads both back into the atmosphere in the case of manufactured products and perhaps to a higher orbit, in the case that such materials were wanted. Perhaps cans of water
So the Mass Driver platform would receive canisters from a ship like Starship. Both water Canisters and Skyfall Canisters (Spacecraft), and the materials to manufacture space products.
The Mass Driver would expel Skyfall's in a retrograde direction to make them go suborbital. But that would lift the orbit of the Mass Driver platform. So, the Mass Driver would also fire water canisters into a prograde orbit(s), so regaining its previoius orbit.
I have kept it simple in saying water canisters. A tug with a power supply could grab those water canisters and with a power supply create propulsion either from very high temperature steam, or by busting the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen and firing a rocket engine of some kind. Probably burning gas phase propellants in small bursts.
And the canisters would then also become propellant as both Neumann Drive and Magdrive are expected to be able to do propulsion with metal propellants.
Probably to keep minimal the size of the Mass Driver platform, the Mass Driver would have massive acceleration. So many products might not respond well to it.
A form of spin launch might work as well and in that case the energy draw would be small over a longer period of time.
A Skyfall balanced against a water canister one flung down to sub-orbital and the other flung up to a higher orbit (The water canister).
Amusing if nothing else.
Some products might tolerate slow acceleration but very high g forces, so a tether spin launch might work for them.
Ending Pending
.
Last edited by Void (2026-06-03 07:35:12)
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#5 2026-06-03 07:36:57
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Re: Starfall
So, I originally thought of a Mass Driver, then a Rotavator.
But a Simple partial space elevator might work.
I do realize that I am working on thin ice as per probabilities of finding something good, but I want to take the risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit
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The speed of low Earth orbit (LEO) is approximately 17,500 miles per hour (28,000 kilometers per hour), or about 7.8 kilometers per second. At this speed, satellites can complete an orbit around the Earth in roughly 90 minutes
iere.org
iere.org
+2
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit
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Speed of a Sun-Synchronous Earth Orbit
A typical Sun-synchronous Earth orbit (SSO) is a low-Earth, near-polar orbit with an orbital period of about 96–100 minutes www.scientificlib.com. This means the satellite completes roughly 15 orbits per day (since 24 hours ÷ 96 min ≈ 15).Orbital speed
For a circular low-Earth orbit at an altitude of about 600–800 km, the orbital speed is roughly 7.5–7.8 km/s (about 27,000–28,000 km/h). This speed is determined by the balance between Earth’s gravity and the satellite’s forward motion, and it depends on altitude.Why this speed works for SSO
Altitude and inclination are chosen so that the orbital plane precesses about 1° eastward per day, matching Earth’s orbital motion around the Sun grokipedia.com+1.This precession ensures that the satellite passes over any point at the same local solar time each day, which is essential for consistent lighting in Earth observation missions Wikipedia+1.
The 96–100 minute period is common because it divides evenly into the solar day, allowing the satellite to cross the equator at the same local time on each pass www.scientificlib.com.
Example
NASA’s Landsat and Terra satellites operate in SSOs at altitudes around 600–800 km, with orbital speeds near 7.6 km/s and periods of about 96–100 minutes grokipedia.com+1.In summary:
A Sun-synchronous Earth orbit typically travels at ~7.5–7.8 km/s (27,000–28,000 km/h) with a period of 96–100 minutes, enabling consistent solar illumination for Earth observation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit
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Altitude of a Sun-Synchronous Earth Orbit
A Sun-synchronous orbit (SSO) is a type of low Earth orbit (LEO) where the satellite’s orbital plane precesses at about 1° per day, matching the Earth’s orbital motion around the Sun. This ensures that the satellite passes over any given point at roughly the same local solar time each day, which is ideal for Earth observation and remote sensing Wikipedia+1.Typical altitude range:
Most operational SSOs are in the 600–1,000 km altitude range blog.truegeometry.com. This range balances:Resolution and coverage: Lower altitudes (around 600 km) allow higher spatial resolution, while higher altitudes (up to ~1,000 km) increase swath width and reduce atmospheric drag.
Orbital stability: The J₂ effect (Earth’s oblateness) is strong enough at these altitudes to produce the required precession rate without needing extreme inclinations.
Mission needs: Many Earth observation satellites, such as NASA’s Aqua (~705 km) and Capella Space’s SAR satellites (~590 km), operate in this range Earthdata+1.
Why not all altitudes work:
Below ~600 km, atmospheric drag increases, requiring more frequent station-keeping burns blog.truegeometry.com.
Above ~1,000 km, the J₂ effect weakens, making it harder to maintain sun-synchronicity without near-polar inclinations, which may not be practical for all missions blog.truegeometry.com.
Common inclination:
For the 600–1,000 km range, the required inclination is usually about 98° (retrograde) to achieve the correct precession rate blog.truegeometry.com.Summary:
If you need a Sun-synchronous orbit, plan for ~600–1,000 km altitude with a ~98° inclination. This provides the best compromise between resolution, coverage, and orbital stability for most Earth observation missions.Read less
So, usually the idea of space tethers is to snatch things to orbit. But for the moment I am thinking to invert that.
If a rocket launch system can put Starfall devices into a desired orbit, then when they have completed their microgravity or vacuum, etc. work then might be send down a tether and released. This then might drop them into the atmosphere to aerobrake, and would lift the tether system to a higher orbit.
If a tether is electrodynamic, it also might propulse either up of down by either using electric power to lift the tether in the Earth's magnetic field, or extracting electricity from the system.
Using the forces described above, it might be that Payloads could be released from the upper end of the tether. Unfortunately the Van Allen Belts might not be favorable to this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt
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The Van Allen radiation belts extend from roughly 640 km to 58,000 km above Earth's surface, with the inner belt spanning about 600–12,000 km and the outer belt from roughly 13,000–45,000 km.
Inner Van Allen Belt
The inner belt is primarily composed of highly energetic protons and extends from approximately 600 km to 12,000 km (0.1–2 Earth radii) above the Earth's surface, though it can dip closer over regions like the South Atlantic Anomaly
European Space Agency
European Space Agency
. The inner belt’s peak density is centered around 3,000 km, and it is most intense over the equator
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
. This belt originates largely from the decay of neutrons produced when cosmic rays collide with Earth's atmosphere
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
.Outer Van Allen Belt
The outer belt consists mainly of energetic electrons and some protons, with altitudes ranging from about 13,000 km to 45,000 km (2–7 Earth radii), though some estimates place it as far as 58,000 km
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
. Its peak density is typically around 15,000–20,000 km, and it is more variable than the inner belt, influenced by solar activity and geomagnetic conditions
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
+1
. The outer belt contains particles of both atmospheric and solar origin, including helium ions from the solar wind
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
.Slot Region
Between the inner and outer belts lies a “slot” region, a relatively low-radiation zone extending roughly from 12,000 km to 13,000 km, where many satellites, including GPS satellites, orbit safely
European Space Agency
European Space Agency
+1
. This region is maintained by interactions of charged particles with electromagnetic waves, which reduce particle energy and density
JSTOR
JSTOR
.Variability
The altitudes of both belts are not fixed. Geomagnetic activity, solar storms, and other space weather events can shift the belts’ boundaries, sometimes creating temporary third belts or expanding the outer belt closer to Earth
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
In summary, the Van Allen belts form concentric, donut-shaped zones of trapped charged particles, with the inner belt starting around 600 km and the outer belt extending up to 45,000–58,000 km, separated by a lower-radiation slot region that provides a safer orbital path for satellites.
So, the idea of dropping water tanks "Upward" from the tether system is not necessarily a wrong one, as water can be protective of radiation damage.
So, water thrusters in space:
https://interestingengineering.com/spac … d-by-water
Quote:
Water-based plasma thrusters could power spacecraft for deep space missions
WET thrusters, with their low power needs (500-1000 watts), are ideal for small satellites with limited power.By
Aman Tripathi
Space
Feb 08, 2025 06:49 AM EST
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Water Thrusters in Space: How They Work and Why They Matter
Water thrusters are a new class of space propulsion systems that use water as a propellant instead of traditional chemical fuels. They are being developed to make space travel more sustainable, cost-effective, and resource‑independent.How They Work
Two main approaches are being explored:Water-based Electric Thrusters (WET) – Developed by the University of Bologna under Horizon Europe, WET converts water into plasma by first vaporizing it and then ionizing it with electricity. The resulting charged particles are accelerated through an electric field to produce thrust Interesting Engineering.
Power range: 500–1000 watts, making them ideal for small satellites (SmallSats) with limited power budgets Interesting Engineering.
Advantages: Uses abundant water from the Moon, asteroids, or other bodies; no harmful emissions; potential for in‑space refueling Interesting Engineering.
Water-electrolysis thrusters – These split water into hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis, then recombine and expel the gases as superheated steam to generate thrust NASA Spinoff+1.
Advantages: Safe storage (gases are non‑toxic), long lifetime, low power needs, and high exhaust velocity NASA Spinoff.
Challenges: Managing corrosion from hydrogen/oxygen mixtures and superheated steam NASA Spinoff.
Why They’re Important
In‑situ Resource Utilization (ISRU): Water can be mined from celestial bodies and turned into fuel, reducing the need to launch large amounts of propellant from Earth Interesting Engineering+1.Environmental benefits: No combustion byproducts, unlike chemical rockets Interesting Engineering.
Versatility: Can be used for satellite orbit adjustments, lander/rover propulsion, and even deep space missions aviationmarie.space.
Cost savings: Lower power and fuel costs make them attractive for CubeSats and other small spacecraft NASA Spinoff.
Current Status
WET project: In advanced lab stages, focusing on plasma formation and thruster design Interesting Engineering+1.Water-electrolysis engines: First viable prototypes built by Tethers Unlimited with NASA support, targeting CubeSat and small mission applications NASA Spinoff.
Testing: Recent flight tests by Miles Space are validating performance in real space conditions SpaceNews+1.
Future Outlook
With advances in materials science and propulsion engineering, water thrusters could become a standard for:Interplanetary missions (Moon, Mars, asteroids)
Orbital stationkeeping
Asteroid mining operations
Human‑sustained space habitats that need on‑site fuel production
In short, water thrusters represent a shift toward clean, abundant, and adaptable propulsion that could transform how we explore and use space.
So, if a canister had a small plasma thruster that could use water as throw mass, and if it had a power supply then you could release it "Upwards" from a tether system towards a desired orbit, which could be Sun synchronous.
This would cause the elevator to drop lower in orbit, but you might compensate by releasing Starfall devices downward to land on Earth.
In microgravity, if you had a tank with wicking materials on its inside surface, you could consume most of the water and then leaving a little still in the tank, use the tank to be a water vapor condenser. The wick could then move condensed water to a overheating device such as a data center component and then evaporatively cooling the device. A water vapor atmosphere inside of the tank being maintained, more water condensation on the wick would be expected, presuming the wick and tank were at an appropriate temperature.
As for the power supply for the tank with wick with water plasma thruster, lasers might be sent to it to improve the power density and reduce the dry mass of the power supply portion. Or actually solar cells might be wanted in the sun synchronous orbits.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-03 08:35:34)
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#6 2026-06-10 11:01:54
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Re: Starfall
Utube, Starfall - SpaceX's Surprise New Spacecraft
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
Quote:
Starfall - SpaceX's Surprise New Spacecraft
YouTube
Scott Manley
799 views
23 minutes ago
So, the above makes things a bit clearer.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-10 11:03:12)
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#7 Yesterday 11:01:20
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Re: Starfall
This video has a significant section about Starfall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K60YfjHEeo0
Quote:
paceX's Plan To Make Starship Reenter On Flight 14!
What about it!?
What about it!?
So, I guess more will be revealed at later times.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (Yesterday 11:20:16)
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#8 Today 10:48:04
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,586
Re: Starfall
I think Starfall illustrates a solution to down-mass.
Query: "What is the dry mass of Starship?"
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Dry Mass of SpaceX Starship
The dry mass of the Starship spacecraft (the “ship” stage) is the weight of the vehicle without propellant, excluding any residual propellant, ullage gas, or consumables.Current estimates
Early flight versions (e.g., Block 1) had an empty mass of about 100t Wikipedia+1.
Community tracking and analysis suggest the basic Starship is trending toward 120–130t in recent builds Reddit.
SpaceX’s long-term design goal is to reduce the ship’s dry mass to around 100t Reddit.
Booster dry mass
For reference, the Super Heavy booster (first stage) has an empty mass of about 275t Wikipedia.Why it matters
Dry mass is important because it directly affects payload capacity: the more propellant you can carry relative to dry mass, the more you can deliver to orbit. Starship’s design aims to keep dry mass low to maximize performance, especially for its fully reusable configuration.Summary table
Stage Current Dry Mass (t)
Target Dry Mass (t)Starship ~100–130
~100Super Heavy ~275
~200So, while the exact number varies with build and configuration, the Starship’s dry mass is currently in the low-to-mid 100ton range, with plans to bring it down to ~100t Wikipedia+1.
The hope is to eventually have a dry mass of ~100(t), and be able to lift ~200(t) of cargo to LEO.
But if you were to bring 200 tons of Cargo down, then you would stress the heat shield by 3x. Also, the landing systems will have to endure 3x the inertia and weight.
For now, up-mass is much more important than down-mass.
But later, it might be that larger sizes of Starfall will be wanted. It might be that a capsule might ride to orbit in a Starship with "Hungry Hippo" jaws, and then bring a cargo down by capsule.
If it turns out that a Lunar Mass Driver does come into operation, then it might be that heat shields will be made of Lunar Materials.
https://imgur.com/a/Hs183C2
Imgur is messing with their site again so you will have to click the link above. I can no longer do a display automatically.
OK, I switched it back to the old design and was able to copy the bbcode: 
So, I am just supposing that if you make heat shields out of Lunar Materials, you are not constrained by the fairing size of Starship, so you can expand the footprint.
Supposing the heat shield would drop off from the Capsule prior to a water landing, it might be made of valuable materials.
Most stuff from the Moon is not valuable, but perhaps. A robot then might retrieve the heat shield from a shallow ocean bottom.
Unlike ceramic heat shields this might be metal and glow through when hot.
So, then the capsule with parachutes, etc. would be recovered and lofted to orbit repeatedly.
Just some notions.
Precious Metals on the Moon?
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The Moon contains a variety of precious metals, including platinum, palladium, rhodium, and gold, largely delivered by asteroid impacts and present in lunar regolith and subsurface layers.
Types of Precious Metals
Studies suggest that the Moon may harbor platinum-group metals such as platinum, palladium, and rhodium in thousands of impact craters, with estimates indicating up to 6,500 craters could contain these metals
ScienceAlert
ScienceAlert
. Gold has also been confirmed in lunar rocks brought back by the Apollo missions and detected by later missions like LCROSS
littleastronomy.com
littleastronomy.com
. These metals are highly prized for industrial, medical, and technological applications due to their conductivity, corrosion resistance, and catalytic properties
Popular Science
Popular Science
+1
.Origins and Distribution
Many of these metals likely arrived via asteroid impacts, which deposited extraterrestrial material across the lunar surface
ScienceAlert
ScienceAlert
. Larger and deeper craters tend to have higher metal concentrations, as impacts excavate material from deeper lunar layers
MINING.COM
MINING.COM
. The Moon’s composition is broadly similar to Earth’s, so it contains many of the same elements, though in different quantities
littleastronomy.com
littleastronomy.com
. Iron and titanium are also abundant, particularly in mare basalts, and could be extracted alongside precious metals
MINING.COM
MINING.COM
+1
.Mining Potential and Challenges
While the Moon’s metals are potentially valuable, lunar mining faces significant challenges. The environment is harsh, with extreme temperatures, high radiation, and a lack of atmosphere, making extraction and transport technologically demanding and costly
littleastronomy.com
littleastronomy.com
. However, the presence of water ice in some craters could support in-situ resource utilization (ISRU), providing water for life support and fuel, which may make mining operations more feasible
ScienceAlert
ScienceAlert
+1
. Recent U.S. policies encourage commercial exploration of lunar resources, potentially accelerating future mining efforts
MINING.COM
MINING.COM
.Summary
The Moon is rich in precious metals and industrially useful elements, with platinum-group metals, gold, iron, titanium, and aluminum among the most notable. These resources are concentrated in impact craters and lunar regolith, offering potential for future space-based mining, though significant technological and economic hurdles remain
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+4
.
So, a big maybe.
The heat shield could be some sort of Steel? But you might need to bring alloy materials from Earth for that.
Query: "304L stainless steel?"
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304L stainless steel is a low-carbon variant of 304 stainless steel, designed for improved weldability and corrosion resistance, especially in welded structures.
Composition and Key Features
304L stainless steel is an austenitic stainless steel alloy composed primarily of 70% iron, 18% chromium, and 8% nickel, with a maximum carbon content of 0.03%, significantly lower than the 0.08% in standard 304 stainless steel
steelprogroup.com
steelprogroup.com
+2
. The "L" stands for low carbon, which reduces the risk of carbide precipitation during welding, thereby enhancing corrosion resistance in heat-affected zones
steelprogroup.com
steelprogroup.com
+1
. Other elements, such as manganese, silicon, and phosphorus, are present in small amounts, similar to 304 stainless steel.Mechanical Properties
Compared to standard 304, 304L has slightly lower mechanical strength. Its ultimate tensile strength is approximately 586 MPa, and its 0.2% yield strength is around 241 MPa, versus 620 MPa and 289 MPa for 304 stainless steel
marlinwire.com
marlinwire.com
. Despite this, 304L maintains excellent ductility, toughness, and formability, making it suitable for a wide range of applications where welding is required
seathertechnology.com
seathertechnology.com
.Corrosion Resistance and Weldability
304L offers superior resistance to intergranular corrosion, particularly after welding or exposure to high temperatures, because the low carbon content prevents chromium carbide formation along grain boundaries
steelprogroup.com
steelprogroup.com
+1
. It can be welded without post-weld annealing in most cases, unlike 304 stainless steel, which may require heat treatment to restore corrosion resistance
steelprogroup.com
steelprogroup.com
+1
. Both 304 and 304L have similar density (8.0 g/cm³), melting point (1400–1450°C), and thermal conductivity (16.2 W/m·K), ensuring comparable performance in high-temperature environments
steelprogroup.com
steelprogroup.com
.Applications
304L stainless steel is widely used in industries where welded structures are common and corrosion resistance is critical. Typical applications include:Chemical processing equipment
Food and beverage manufacturing tanks and piping
Pharmaceutical and medical devices
Architectural and structural components
Marine and water treatment systems
Its combination of low carbon content, corrosion resistance, and weldability makes it ideal for components that require long-term durability in corrosive or high-temperature environments
steelprogroup.com
steelprogroup.com
+2
.
Summary
In essence, 304L stainless steel is a low-carbon, highly weldable version of 304 stainless steel. While it has slightly lower mechanical strength, it excels in preventing intergranular corrosion and maintaining durability in welded assemblies, making it a preferred choice for chemical, food, and structural applications where corrosion resistance and fabrication efficiency are critical
Query: "Chromium o the Moon?"
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Chromium on the Moon
Chromium is a transition metal (atomic number 24) with a body-centered cubic crystal structure, high melting point (1907°C), and abundant in-group stability lunarpedia.org. On Earth, it is vital for making stainless steel, corrosion-resistant alloys, and nonferrous alloys, as well as for pigments, catalysts, and surface treatments lunarpedia.org.Availability on the Moon
Geological surveys have identified vast chromite deposits in the Sinus Aestuum region of the Moon, covering thousands of square kilometers lunarpedia.org. These deposits are thought to be widespread across the lunar surface, though often buried under regolith. Meteorite impacts in this area have exposed them. Chromite is the primary lunar ore of chromium lunarpedia.org.Formation of Lunar Chromite Deposits
On Earth, chromite forms in stratiform ore deposits via fractional crystallization of magma, with high-density chromite crystals settling out. On the Moon, the absence of water means hydrothermal ore formation is unlikely, but lunar magmas have lower viscosities and higher temperatures than terrestrial magmas. This results in faster crystal settling velocities (5–10× Earth’s) for chromite and other dense minerals like ilmenite and FeNi metal NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS). This makes it probable that similar stratiform chromite deposits exist on the Moon.Potential Uses in Lunar Industry
If extracted, lunar chromium could be:Reduced to iron–chromium alloys via processes like the FFC Cambridge Process lunarpedia.org.
Refined into pure chromium for high-performance alloys.
Used directly in stainless steel production or other alloys for construction, tools, and industrial equipment.
Employed in electric resistance heating elements due to its high melting point lunarpedia.org.
In Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) Potential
Chromium’s abundance and utility make it a candidate for lunar ISRU—using local resources to support lunar industry and potentially export to Earth. However, extraction would require regolith processing, chromite mining, and metallurgical refining, which would depend on energy sources and infrastructure.In summary: Chromium is present in significant quantities on the Moon, primarily as chromite in stratiform deposits, and its extraction could support advanced alloys, corrosion resistance, and industrial applications in future lunar operations lunarpedia.org+1.
Query: "Nickle on the Moon?"
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Nickel on the Moon
Nickel is present on the Moon, but its abundance, distribution, and origin are complex and not uniform across the lunar surface.Abundance and distribution
The Moon is generally considered rich in metals compared to Earth, including iron and nickel Wikipedia. However, nickel is not uniformly distributed. Some lunar regions, especially those with high concentrations of iron–nickel meteoritic material, can have significant nickel content. For example, Apollo 16 regolith samples contain low-nickel (2–6 wt%) iron–nickel metals, with elevated germanium, suggesting a meteoritic origin Wiley Online Library. These low-nickel metals are thought to have been delivered by meteoritic impacts and then modified by impact-driven volatilization and condensation, which can fractionate nickel and germanium Wiley Online Library.Isotopic composition
Studies of Apollo lunar samples show that the average nickel isotopic composition (δ⁶⁰Ni ≈ 0.17‰) is more heterogeneous than in chondrites or terrestrial rocks, with a possible slightly heavier bulk Moon value than Earth’s δ⁶⁰Ni ≈ 0.11‰ www.goldschmidtabstracts.info. This suggests that the Moon’s nickel isotopic signature may reflect processes in the Moon-forming impactor, which could have been isotopically distinct from Earth.Origin of lunar nickel
Nickel on the Moon likely comes from two main sources:Meteoritic addition – Iron–nickel meteorites and their fragments have been delivered to the Moon over billions of years, especially during the Late Heavy Bombardment Wiley Online Library.
In-situ formation – Some nickel may have been produced through the reduction of iron-bearing minerals in the lunar crust, though this is less dominant than meteoritic input Wiley Online Library.
Mining potential
While nickel is present, its concentration varies widely. In some areas, it may be economically recoverable from regolith processing, but in others it is part of low-nickel meteoritic metals that are harder to extract in pure form. The Moon’s lack of atmosphere and ongoing meteoritic bombardment mean nickel is continuously being added, but its distribution is patchy and not as concentrated as on Earth.Summary
Yes — nickel is on the Moon, but it is not uniformly abundant. It occurs in both meteoritic and in-situ forms, with concentrations and isotopic signatures reflecting the Moon’s meteoritic history. While it could be a target for future lunar mining, its extraction would depend on site selection and processing technology.
So, Steel making might be an option on the Moon, including making heat shields, and Starships.
https://www.mining.com/moon-richer-in-m … ought-nasa
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Moon richer in metals than previously thought — NASA
Cecilia Jamasmie | July 3, 2020 | 7:18 am Education Exploration Intelligence Suppliers & Equipment Asia Australia Canada China Europe USA Copper Diamond Gold Iron Ore Nickel Rare Earth Silver Zinc
Query: "304L stainless steel temperature tolerances?"
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304L stainless steel can be used from cryogenic temperatures as low as -196°C (-321°F) up to intermittent service temperatures of around 925°C (1697°F), with continuous service recommended up to 870°C (1600°F).
Low-Temperature Performance
304L stainless steel retains excellent toughness and ductility at cryogenic temperatures, down to -196°C (-321°F), making it suitable for applications involving liquefied gases such as LNG and liquid nitrogen. Unlike some carbon steels, it does not become brittle at these low temperatures, and its yield strength increases as temperature decreases, enhancing structural integrity in cold environments
dsstainlesssteel.com
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.Moderate to Elevated Temperatures
At ambient to moderately elevated temperatures (up to ~425°C / 797°F), 304L maintains its mechanical strength and corrosion resistance. It exhibits excellent resistance to oxidizing environments and organic chemicals, making it suitable for process piping, food processing, and water systems
sasaflange.com
sasaflange.com
. Stress corrosion cracking (SCC) risk remains low in chloride-free environments, but prolonged exposure above 60°C in chloride-rich atmospheres should be avoided
sasaflange.com
sasaflange.com
.High-Temperature Performance
304L stainless steel can withstand continuous service up to 870°C (1600°F) and intermittent service up to 925°C (1697°F). Beyond this range, the protective chromium oxide layer may degrade, leading to increased oxidation and potential hot corrosion. Grain growth and reduced mechanical properties can occur at temperatures above 925°C (1697°F), and alternative heat-resistant alloys may be more suitable for such extreme conditions
dsstainlesssteel.com
dsstainlesssteel.com
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. Excessive scaling occurs near 850°C (1562°F), and moderate strengths are maintained up to ~550°C (1022°F),
dsstainlesssteel.com
dsstainlesssteel.com
.Summary of Temperature Ranges
Cryogenic service: -196°C (-321°F)
Ambient to moderate: 0–425°C (32–797°F)
Elevated service: 425–870°C (797–1600°F) continuous, up to 925°C (1697°F) intermittent
Excessive scaling / degradation: >850°C (1562°F)
304L’s low carbon content minimizes carbide precipitation during welding, reducing the risk of intergranular corrosion at elevated temperatures, which makes it preferred over standard 304 in welded structures
dsstainlesssteel.com
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. Its wide temperature range and corrosion resistance make it versatile for cryogenic, industrial, and high-temperature applications.Read less
So, if the footprint is large enough, you might avoid damage to the metal. Unlike tiled Starship, some of the heat could bleed through to the leeward side to bleed off as red or infrared photons.
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