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#1 2026-06-02 10:28:11
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,554
Starfall
This is an unpersoned system, although I will bet that it might be able to return people from orbit.
The moderators will have to decide. The site really does not give a good place for this.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VRDGAR
As I understand it, it will be launched by Falcon 9 or Starship.
A capsule with expendable heat shield that will drop off prior to landing. One Parachute with a drogue.
https://spacenews.com/faa-documents-out … -vehicles/
Image Quote: 
Quote:
The vehicle would slow its descent using a single main parachute, along with pilot and drogue parachutes, with the heat shield jettisoned before splashdown. The FAA documents state that SpaceX will use boats to recover all elements of the spacecraft after splashdown.
So, I am needing more information in this. Apparently, it is for zero g manufacturing. If so, then this might be why space stations are not needed.
The concept eventually might make it possible to launch one-time starships to orbit and bring back things like raptor engines, I think.
But of course they want to make $$$ by manufacturing and delivering special products, I expect.
Of surface area relative to dry mass, I looks like.
Ending Pending 
I guess this might be a better place (th), but it is not a probe but more a cargo transport manufacturing system Good enough though.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-02 10:32:01)
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#2 2026-06-02 15:04:05
- SpaceNut
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- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
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Re: Starfall
It is sort of unmanned in that its designed for a return to earth container from orbiting platforms. Mostly for science items. But its still another item that we are missing for manufacturing in orbit.
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#3 2026-06-02 15:44:45
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,554
Re: Starfall
Yes it will be experimental at first, but:....
Quote:
“The purpose of SpaceX’s proposal is to (1) enable point-to-point delivery of critical cargo through space on rapid timelines and (2) create a self-sustaining commercial in-space manufacturing market by offering access to microgravity and vacuum, loiter on orbit, and safe return from orbit as a service at scale,” the record of decision states.
The FAA decision approves two reentries of Starfall capsules in the Pacific Ocean about 1,300 kilometers off the coasts of California and Mexico. The capsules would launch on either Falcon 9 or Starship vehicles, going into orbit before reentry or flying a direct suborbital trajectory to the landing zone.
The capsules are disk-shaped, 0.75 meters tall and 3.1 meters in diameter at the top. The capsules have cold-gas attitude control thrusters but no other propulsion system and do not have the ability to deorbit on their own.
The vehicle consists of two parts: a top plate and a heat shield. The top plate is an aluminum structure partially wrapped in an unspecified thermal protection material and weighs 1,400 kilograms. The heat shield is a carbon-fiber structure covered in thermal protection material and also contains nitrogen gas bottles used for the thrusters and other systems. It weighs about 700 kilograms.
The vehicle would slow its descent using a single main parachute, along with pilot and drogue parachutes, with the heat shield jettisoned before splashdown. The FAA documents state that SpaceX will use boats to recover all elements of the spacecraft after splashdown.
So, interesting the Heat shield will be ejected prior to payload splashdown but will be floating it seems due to Nitrogen cold gas thruster tanks contained in it (My interpretation).
The area to volume of the heat shield may be favorable to it being reusable as perhaps it will not heat up as severely as Starship.(My speculation again). Ejecting the heatshield assembly may allow them to land the payload more gently than it could otherwise.
The device cannot deorbit itself, so that is interesting how do they deorbit it?
Granted, the "Mothership can be put on a sub-orbital path" and the devices be then ejected, but they seem to indicate orbital operations as a option as well.
As it is largely a landing without propellants, it might conserve propellants for Starship.
They sure know how to have fun!
Ending Pending
I am sorry I am going to have to push my luck on this.
I occurs to me that a platform in orbit with a mass driver could deorbit these things, and in doing so lift its own orbit. For some products though high g forces will not be tolerable.
So, could they make a disk flinger like the pez dispenser to serve as a mass driver? Perhaps this could reduce the load on the heat shields of the little disc devices.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-02 16:00:49)
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#4 2026-06-02 18:12:31
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,554
Re: Starfall
I'm likely to make a fool of myself, but I can't resist.
I asked this question: "Products that can be made in low earth orbit?"
https://www.bing.com/search?q=products+ … 1&hsmssg=0
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Low Earth Orbit enables the production of high-value, precision products such as semiconductors, fiber optics, biomedical tissues, and advanced materials that benefit from microgravity and vacuum conditions.
Semiconductor and Microchip Manufacturing
Microgravity and the vacuum of LEO allow for higher-quality semiconductor crystals with fewer defects and larger sizes than those produced on Earth. Gallium arsenide and gallium nitride chips, used in electronics and LEDs, can be fabricated with improved purity and structural integrity due to reduced fluid movement and contamination in microgravity. Companies like Space Forge and Made in Space are actively developing orbital platforms for autonomous semiconductor production, which could eventually be more economically viable than terrestrial fabrication
factoriesinspace.com
factoriesinspace.com
+2
.Fiber Optics
Specialized fluoride glass fibers (ZBLAN) can be manufactured in orbit with significantly lower signal loss than Earth-made fibers. Microgravity suppresses crystal formation during the fiber-drawing process, resulting in longer, higher-quality optical fibers suitable for undersea communication and high-speed data transmission
IEEE
IEEE
.Biomedical Products
LEO provides a unique environment for 3D bioprinting of human tissues and organs. Microgravity allows bioinks made from stem cells and gels to maintain their structure without collapsing, enabling the creation of complex tissues such as hearts, liver tissues, and other organ models. This has potential applications in regenerative medicine and organ transplantation research
IEEE
IEEE
+1
.Advanced Materials and Crystals
Space-based manufacturing can produce super materials and high-purity crystals that are difficult or impossible to create on Earth. Microgravity allows for uniform crystal growth, reduced defects, and novel material properties. These include high-performance alloys, composites, and substrates for electronics and photonics
factoriesinspace.com
factoriesinspace.com
+1
.Pharmaceuticals and Biotech
LEO is also used for drug development and testing, as microgravity affects molecular interactions and protein crystallization. This can lead to more effective pharmaceuticals and insights into disease mechanisms that are challenging to study under Earth's gravity
space-startups.org
space-startups.org
.3D Printing and Space Construction
In-orbit 3D printing enables the creation of satellite components, structural parts, and potentially lunar or orbital infrastructure. Microgravity allows for complex geometries and lightweight structures that are difficult to fabricate on Earth
space-startups.org
space-startups.org
.Summary
Products that benefit most from LEO manufacturing share characteristics such as high value per mass, sensitivity to gravity-induced defects, and the need for ultra-clean or vacuum conditions. Key examples include:Semiconductor chips and substrates
High-quality optical fibers (ZBLAN)
3D-printed human tissues and organs
Advanced crystals and super materials
Pharmaceuticals and biotech products
Satellite components and space infrastructure parts
These applications leverage the unique environmental conditions of space—microgravity, vacuum, and temperature extremes—to achieve superior quality, novel properties, and potentially new capabilities that are difficult or impossible to replicate on Earth
factoriesinspace.com
factoriesinspace.com
+2
.Read less
Many of these products will not survive high g forces, but perhaps some could.
What is developing in my mind is a mass driver system that can shoot out payloads both back into the atmosphere in the case of manufactured products and perhaps to a higher orbit, in the case that such materials were wanted. Perhaps cans of water
So the Mass Driver platform would receive canisters from a ship like Starship. Both water Canisters and Skyfall Canisters (Spacecraft), and the materials to manufacture space products.
The Mass Driver would expel Skyfall's in a retrograde direction to make them go suborbital. But that would lift the orbit of the Mass Driver platform. So, the Mass Driver would also fire water canisters into a prograde orbit(s), so regaining its previoius orbit.
I have kept it simple in saying water canisters. A tug with a power supply could grab those water canisters and with a power supply create propulsion either from very high temperature steam, or by busting the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen and firing a rocket engine of some kind. Probably burning gas phase propellants in small bursts.
And the canisters would then also become propellant as both Neumann Drive and Magdrive are expected to be able to do propulsion with metal propellants.
Probably to keep minimal the size of the Mass Driver platform, the Mass Driver would have massive acceleration. So many products might not respond well to it.
A form of spin launch might work as well and in that case the energy draw would be small over a longer period of time.
A Skyfall balanced against a water canister one flung down to sub-orbital and the other flung up to a higher orbit (The water canister).
Amusing if nothing else.
Some products might tolerate slow acceleration but very high g forces, so a tether spin launch might work for them.
Ending Pending
.
Last edited by Void (2026-06-03 07:35:12)
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#5 2026-06-03 07:36:57
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,554
Re: Starfall
So, I originally thought of a Mass Driver, then a Rotavator.
But a Simple partial space elevator might work.
I do realize that I am working on thin ice as per probabilities of finding something good, but I want to take the risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit
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The speed of low Earth orbit (LEO) is approximately 17,500 miles per hour (28,000 kilometers per hour), or about 7.8 kilometers per second. At this speed, satellites can complete an orbit around the Earth in roughly 90 minutes
iere.org
iere.org
+2
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit
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Speed of a Sun-Synchronous Earth Orbit
A typical Sun-synchronous Earth orbit (SSO) is a low-Earth, near-polar orbit with an orbital period of about 96–100 minutes www.scientificlib.com. This means the satellite completes roughly 15 orbits per day (since 24 hours ÷ 96 min ≈ 15).Orbital speed
For a circular low-Earth orbit at an altitude of about 600–800 km, the orbital speed is roughly 7.5–7.8 km/s (about 27,000–28,000 km/h). This speed is determined by the balance between Earth’s gravity and the satellite’s forward motion, and it depends on altitude.Why this speed works for SSO
Altitude and inclination are chosen so that the orbital plane precesses about 1° eastward per day, matching Earth’s orbital motion around the Sun grokipedia.com+1.This precession ensures that the satellite passes over any point at the same local solar time each day, which is essential for consistent lighting in Earth observation missions Wikipedia+1.
The 96–100 minute period is common because it divides evenly into the solar day, allowing the satellite to cross the equator at the same local time on each pass www.scientificlib.com.
Example
NASA’s Landsat and Terra satellites operate in SSOs at altitudes around 600–800 km, with orbital speeds near 7.6 km/s and periods of about 96–100 minutes grokipedia.com+1.In summary:
A Sun-synchronous Earth orbit typically travels at ~7.5–7.8 km/s (27,000–28,000 km/h) with a period of 96–100 minutes, enabling consistent solar illumination for Earth observation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit
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Altitude of a Sun-Synchronous Earth Orbit
A Sun-synchronous orbit (SSO) is a type of low Earth orbit (LEO) where the satellite’s orbital plane precesses at about 1° per day, matching the Earth’s orbital motion around the Sun. This ensures that the satellite passes over any given point at roughly the same local solar time each day, which is ideal for Earth observation and remote sensing Wikipedia+1.Typical altitude range:
Most operational SSOs are in the 600–1,000 km altitude range blog.truegeometry.com. This range balances:Resolution and coverage: Lower altitudes (around 600 km) allow higher spatial resolution, while higher altitudes (up to ~1,000 km) increase swath width and reduce atmospheric drag.
Orbital stability: The J₂ effect (Earth’s oblateness) is strong enough at these altitudes to produce the required precession rate without needing extreme inclinations.
Mission needs: Many Earth observation satellites, such as NASA’s Aqua (~705 km) and Capella Space’s SAR satellites (~590 km), operate in this range Earthdata+1.
Why not all altitudes work:
Below ~600 km, atmospheric drag increases, requiring more frequent station-keeping burns blog.truegeometry.com.
Above ~1,000 km, the J₂ effect weakens, making it harder to maintain sun-synchronicity without near-polar inclinations, which may not be practical for all missions blog.truegeometry.com.
Common inclination:
For the 600–1,000 km range, the required inclination is usually about 98° (retrograde) to achieve the correct precession rate blog.truegeometry.com.Summary:
If you need a Sun-synchronous orbit, plan for ~600–1,000 km altitude with a ~98° inclination. This provides the best compromise between resolution, coverage, and orbital stability for most Earth observation missions.Read less
So, usually the idea of space tethers is to snatch things to orbit. But for the moment I am thinking to invert that.
If a rocket launch system can put Starfall devices into a desired orbit, then when they have completed their microgravity or vacuum, etc. work then might be send down a tether and released. This then might drop them into the atmosphere to aerobrake, and would lift the tether system to a higher orbit.
If a tether is electrodynamic, it also might propulse either up of down by either using electric power to lift the tether in the Earth's magnetic field, or extracting electricity from the system.
Using the forces described above, it might be that Payloads could be released from the upper end of the tether. Unfortunately the Van Allen Belts might not be favorable to this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt
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The Van Allen radiation belts extend from roughly 640 km to 58,000 km above Earth's surface, with the inner belt spanning about 600–12,000 km and the outer belt from roughly 13,000–45,000 km.
Inner Van Allen Belt
The inner belt is primarily composed of highly energetic protons and extends from approximately 600 km to 12,000 km (0.1–2 Earth radii) above the Earth's surface, though it can dip closer over regions like the South Atlantic Anomaly
European Space Agency
European Space Agency
. The inner belt’s peak density is centered around 3,000 km, and it is most intense over the equator
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
. This belt originates largely from the decay of neutrons produced when cosmic rays collide with Earth's atmosphere
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
.Outer Van Allen Belt
The outer belt consists mainly of energetic electrons and some protons, with altitudes ranging from about 13,000 km to 45,000 km (2–7 Earth radii), though some estimates place it as far as 58,000 km
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
. Its peak density is typically around 15,000–20,000 km, and it is more variable than the inner belt, influenced by solar activity and geomagnetic conditions
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
+1
. The outer belt contains particles of both atmospheric and solar origin, including helium ions from the solar wind
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
.Slot Region
Between the inner and outer belts lies a “slot” region, a relatively low-radiation zone extending roughly from 12,000 km to 13,000 km, where many satellites, including GPS satellites, orbit safely
European Space Agency
European Space Agency
+1
. This region is maintained by interactions of charged particles with electromagnetic waves, which reduce particle energy and density
JSTOR
JSTOR
.Variability
The altitudes of both belts are not fixed. Geomagnetic activity, solar storms, and other space weather events can shift the belts’ boundaries, sometimes creating temporary third belts or expanding the outer belt closer to Earth
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
In summary, the Van Allen belts form concentric, donut-shaped zones of trapped charged particles, with the inner belt starting around 600 km and the outer belt extending up to 45,000–58,000 km, separated by a lower-radiation slot region that provides a safer orbital path for satellites.
So, the idea of dropping water tanks "Upward" from the tether system is not necessarily a wrong one, as water can be protective of radiation damage.
So, water thrusters in space:
https://interestingengineering.com/spac … d-by-water
Quote:
Water-based plasma thrusters could power spacecraft for deep space missions
WET thrusters, with their low power needs (500-1000 watts), are ideal for small satellites with limited power.By
Aman Tripathi
Space
Feb 08, 2025 06:49 AM EST
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Water Thrusters in Space: How They Work and Why They Matter
Water thrusters are a new class of space propulsion systems that use water as a propellant instead of traditional chemical fuels. They are being developed to make space travel more sustainable, cost-effective, and resource‑independent.How They Work
Two main approaches are being explored:Water-based Electric Thrusters (WET) – Developed by the University of Bologna under Horizon Europe, WET converts water into plasma by first vaporizing it and then ionizing it with electricity. The resulting charged particles are accelerated through an electric field to produce thrust Interesting Engineering.
Power range: 500–1000 watts, making them ideal for small satellites (SmallSats) with limited power budgets Interesting Engineering.
Advantages: Uses abundant water from the Moon, asteroids, or other bodies; no harmful emissions; potential for in‑space refueling Interesting Engineering.
Water-electrolysis thrusters – These split water into hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis, then recombine and expel the gases as superheated steam to generate thrust NASA Spinoff+1.
Advantages: Safe storage (gases are non‑toxic), long lifetime, low power needs, and high exhaust velocity NASA Spinoff.
Challenges: Managing corrosion from hydrogen/oxygen mixtures and superheated steam NASA Spinoff.
Why They’re Important
In‑situ Resource Utilization (ISRU): Water can be mined from celestial bodies and turned into fuel, reducing the need to launch large amounts of propellant from Earth Interesting Engineering+1.Environmental benefits: No combustion byproducts, unlike chemical rockets Interesting Engineering.
Versatility: Can be used for satellite orbit adjustments, lander/rover propulsion, and even deep space missions aviationmarie.space.
Cost savings: Lower power and fuel costs make them attractive for CubeSats and other small spacecraft NASA Spinoff.
Current Status
WET project: In advanced lab stages, focusing on plasma formation and thruster design Interesting Engineering+1.Water-electrolysis engines: First viable prototypes built by Tethers Unlimited with NASA support, targeting CubeSat and small mission applications NASA Spinoff.
Testing: Recent flight tests by Miles Space are validating performance in real space conditions SpaceNews+1.
Future Outlook
With advances in materials science and propulsion engineering, water thrusters could become a standard for:Interplanetary missions (Moon, Mars, asteroids)
Orbital stationkeeping
Asteroid mining operations
Human‑sustained space habitats that need on‑site fuel production
In short, water thrusters represent a shift toward clean, abundant, and adaptable propulsion that could transform how we explore and use space.
So, if a canister had a small plasma thruster that could use water as throw mass, and if it had a power supply then you could release it "Upwards" from a tether system towards a desired orbit, which could be Sun synchronous.
This would cause the elevator to drop lower in orbit, but you might compensate by releasing Starfall devices downward to land on Earth.
In microgravity, if you had a tank with wicking materials on its inside surface, you could consume most of the water and then leaving a little still in the tank, use the tank to be a water vapor condenser. The wick could then move condensed water to a overheating device such as a data center component and then evaporatively cooling the device. A water vapor atmosphere inside of the tank being maintained, more water condensation on the wick would be expected, presuming the wick and tank were at an appropriate temperature.
As for the power supply for the tank with wick with water plasma thruster, lasers might be sent to it to improve the power density and reduce the dry mass of the power supply portion. Or actually solar cells might be wanted in the sun synchronous orbits.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-03 08:35:34)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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