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#1 2026-03-09 07:40:22
- Void
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Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
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Jevons Paradox:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
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Jevon's Paradox
The Jevons Paradox occurs when improvements in resource efficiency lead to increased, rather than decreased, total consumption of that resource.
Definition and Mechanism
The Jevons Paradox is an economic phenomenon where technological improvements that increase the efficiency of a resource's use result in a rise in total consumption of that resource, rather than a reduction. Greater efficiency lowers the effective cost of using the resource, which can stimulate demand if the resource is price elastic. This increased demand can outweigh the savings from efficiency, leading to higher overall consumption.Social Amplifiers, in my opinion come in the form of human and non-human forms.
Wikipedia
+2The process typically follows this sequence:
Technological Progress: A new invention or method makes a resource more efficient.
Price Drop: Less of the resource is needed per unit of output, reducing the effective cost.
Increased Demand: Lower costs encourage more frequent use or new applications.
Net Increase: Total consumption rises despite per-unit efficiency gains.
22 Sources
Historical Origin
The paradox was first described by William Stanley Jevons in 1865 in his book The Coal Question. Jevons observed that as steam engines became more efficient, Britain’s coal consumption increased rather than decreased. The improved efficiency made coal a cheaper and more attractive energy source, which expanded its use across industries.
Wikipedia
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Modern Examples
Energy Efficiency: More efficient cars, appliances, or LED lighting can lead to higher overall energy use because the lower cost encourages greater usage or additional installations.
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Digital Technology: Improvements in computing efficiency and AI can increase demand for data processing and storage, raising total energy consumption.
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Water Use: Water-saving technologies may paradoxically increase total water consumption if they reduce the perceived cost of water use.
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Implications for Sustainability
The Jevons Paradox highlights that efficiency alone may not reduce resource consumption. To mitigate its effects, efficiency improvements should be paired with policies that maintain or increase the cost of resource use, such as green taxes, cap-and-trade systems, or conservation regulations. Behavioral economics also explains that humans respond strongly to lower costs, often prioritizing immediate financial incentives over long-term environmental concerns.
sustainability-directory.com
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Key Takeaway
While efficiency gains are important, the Jevons Paradox demonstrates that without complementary measures, technological improvements can unintentionally increase resource consumption, challenging assumptions that efficiency automatically leads to sustainability.
Wikiped
Social Amplifiers, in my opinion come in two forms:
1) Hunan services (Compelled or induced).
2) Biological/Animal or Machine/Robot services. (Mostly Compelled).
Reach, in my opinion, is when a new Social Amplifier expands the reach of a society.
Reach may put additional resources into the sphere of human/amplifier/reach actions.
This is what prompted me to create this topic this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqAXwOXZmA
Quote:
For $2/hour Elon Musk Is Going to Replace Humans
Farzad
I will give what I think is a very close example of this in the next post:
Last edited by Void (2026-03-09 08:03:22)
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#2 2026-03-09 08:07:03
- Void
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Re: Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
The Social Amplifier, Falcon 9 has provided reach to attain Starlink.
Starlink, requires a better Social Amplifier, Starship. Machines/Robots will reduce the labor cost for Starships.
Starship, as a Social Amplifier, will increase Reach to allow for Orbital Data Bases, under the Van Allen Belts and later above the Van Allen Belts and beyond.
Expanded Reach will make more raw materials / resources available to the so called "Civilization"/"Us".
The raw material "Sunlight" makes an expanded set of "Tokens" available for consumption.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mas to orbit is like a bank account, I feel.
Previously, mass to orbit is mostly subject to early decay. LEO objects almost always end up as burning up in the atmosphere or placed in "Graveyard" orbits where they become unavailable for further service.
Where Reusable Starship is a desired and needed capability, One-Time Starships may have large value as well.
Robots may make Onetime Starships worth the effort.
This is a contradiction of words for actual circumstances that may be projected.
A Reusable Starship robs orbits of Mass that could be indefinitely reused in orbit.
A One-Time Starship's mass might be reused indefinitely in orbits.
That is a funny thing to understand.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (2026-03-09 08:16:07)
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#3 Yesterday 02:57:37
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Re: Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
Being Value
Doing Value
In orbit: Being Value: 1kg Gold, 1kg, Steel, 1 kg Aluminum, 1 kg Silicon, etc.
In orbit: Doing Value: Those masses, involved in wealth creation.
Because In Orbit Being Value could be translated into Doing Value, it could be speculated on, just like precious metals in a vault.
But their Doing Value Potentials, would make that speculation different than on Earth. The Gold might not be as valuable as the other materials.
Does, space junk and potential space junk have "Being Value".
The radiators from the International Space Station may have being value, if they could be converted to a new "Doing Value".
Atmospheric Drag is a rent that must be paid. Low orbits have higher rents. It costs more to preserve any value.
But higher orbits have a greater up-front cost.
But lower orbits have less time latency with the ground.
Electrodynamic Tethers are not massless drives, they expel the Earth.
Last edited by Void (Yesterday 03:12:16)
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#4 Yesterday 09:23:52
- Void
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Re: Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
Isaac Arthur only touches briefly on orbital solar. Even so, this is an interesting video: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
Quote:
Why solar energy is about to explode
MSN
Isaac Arthur
He does talk about orbital solar thermal power.
Some members here will be more compatible with that than with solar panels. And I have to agree that recycling Solar thermal Power Plants to new Solar Thermal Power Plants looks more doable than to recycle solar panels to new solar panels in orbit. So, as far as an orbital junk industry would be concerned, that looks pretty good. CO2 as the fluid used, I presume, but then you have to get the Carbon from somewhere.
Early on, I expect that solar panels will be used in singular Sun Synchronous, orbits. But on becoming aged they might be recycled to make things like Solar Thermal Power Plants.
I have already mentioned elsewhere, why I think it would be nice to have One-Time Starships made in part of Aluminum. The same may be true for Carbon. If the build process for Neutron of Rocket Lab is as good as they claim, then it might also be used for that. And Neutron 2nd stages might also be a source of Carbon in orbit.
So, that makes Earth an early source of Carbon. The Moon is not likely to be a major source of Carbon for orbits.
I would think maybe Bennu, Ryugu, Deimos, Phobos, and Mars could be considered. But they are hard to access for those materials.
I have taken a look at Trojan Asteroids of Earth. They are also hard to access because of the inclination of their orbits. Of two, the larger on though is said to be Carbonaceous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_trojan
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Earth has two known Trojan asteroids, 2010 TK7 and 2020 XL5, which share its orbit around the Sun and are located at the L4 Lagrange point.
Overview of Earth Trojan Asteroids
Trojan asteroids are celestial bodies that share an orbit with a planet, clustering around stable gravitational points known as Lagrange points. For Earth, these points are located 60 degrees ahead (L4) and behind (L5) in its orbit around the Sun. Currently, only two Earth trojans have been discovered:
2010 TK7: This was the first Earth trojan discovered in 2010. It orbits at the L4 point and is approximately 400 meters in diameter. It is expected to remain in this stable orbit for about 10,000 years.
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2020 XL5: Discovered in December 2020 and confirmed as an Earth trojan in early 2021, 2020 XL5 is significantly larger, measuring about 1.2 kilometers in diameter. It also resides at the L4 point and is predicted to remain stable for several millennia.
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Significance of Earth Trojans
Earth trojans are of great interest to astronomers because they can provide insights into the early solar system and the building blocks of planets. They are composed of material that dates back to the formation of the solar system, making them valuable for understanding planetary formation and evolution. Additionally, the discovery of 2020 XL5 suggests that there may be more Earth trojans yet to be found, which could potentially serve as targets for future exploration or resource utilization.
NSF - National Science Foundation
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Future Exploration
The existence of Earth trojans opens up possibilities for future space missions. If more trojans are discovered, especially those with lower orbital inclinations, they could become more accessible than the Moon for exploration missions, potentially serving as bases for further solar system exploration.
NSF - National Science FoundationIn summary, Earth trojans are fascinating celestial objects that not only enhance our understanding of the solar system but also present opportunities for future scientific exploration.
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(614689)_2020_XL5
Obviously, it needs more study. But its size and the potential that it is carbonaceous are interesting.
With Starship and Optimus, perhaps it could be mined, and industrial facilities could be set up where it could export things to the Earth/Moon.
Anyway, it is a possibility with future technology.
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Last edited by Void (Yesterday 09:53:21)
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#5 Yesterday 10:20:08
- Void
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Re: Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
This is my second post on this topic today: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VAMGZC Quote:
Automated Optimus Bots: Tesla Robots Mining the Moon for SpaceX
YouTube
Industrial Reveal
It is an interesting work. However using Chlorine which can be recycled, it appears that Iron, and I think Oxygen, could be extracted from regolith at much lower temperatures per "Salt Mining".
See this topic: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=11305
Quote:
Index» Life support systems» Flash Recycling, Salt Mining
These web sites have useful resources to offer as well:
https://www.youtube.com/@Anthrofuturism
https://www.spacestartupnews.com/
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Last edited by Void (Yesterday 10:27:36)
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#6 Today 09:39:09
- Void
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Re: Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
I am going to offer some things that I think are true, and others that I simply hold as speculation/theory that is under further consideration.
There may be a parallel between Subtractive vs. Additive Space, and Subtractive vs. Additive Social regulating. The reason this may matter is that if we are stuck in a Subtractive form of Social Regulation, we might also naturally apply Subtractive thinking to space where we should not do so.
An example of space environment that may have features of Subtraction and of Addition could be the asteroid belt. We think that the asteroid belt was added to during an earlier point in the formation of the solar system, and we think it is tending to be subtracted from since then. As objects collide they either shatter and the dust might be pushed outward by the solar wind and sunlight. Also, objects that may wander near aa sizable world may be added to that world, and so subtract from the asteroid belt.
In Earth orbits, subtraction is typical. So, any mass added may be conserved, but any mass added to it may be expected to decay over long stretches of time even with the best conservation efforts. So, the answer is then to get more mass to those orbits from a proximate world, such as the Earth, or Moon.
In human psychology, I think we are struggling to emerge from a psychology of "Managed Decline". I am not the first to mention it. I believe that the expansion of the so-called west, lead to the Baby Boom, and the response was that the management decided to "Eat the Children". To squeeze more out of them and to throttle down the birth rate.
I do not necessarily find fault with their diagnosis of what they could do or should do. But they need to readjust at this point. The social programs that they promoted to discourage successful mating and child rearing events is not appropriate to what is to come.
The idea of breeding a superior race by applying cruelty is stupid anyway. The results of the application of cruelty will be unsuitable to civilization. They might wish to have a race tuned for the situation of the 20th century, is stupid in itself as we do not now live in the 20th century.
I feel that the movie "Gravity" illustrates wrong thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_(2013_film)
The idea of managed decline is not to build a society, but to consume it and be the winner while others lose.
Instead of a movie about cleaning up the problems, they are still in the mode for the last Sacellum. Perhaps about 80 years.
In that time period the west had a bump in population that could be "Eaten" by the rulers, and a contraction of resources available for them.
It is not that that sort of management is always wrong, but it is wrong to insist that it is they only pathway that is appropriate in all time periods.
We are gaining new methods to amplify human power and our reach is expanding. But we will need to be careful to push back the zombies from the previous era, who only see this potential expansion as requiring an increase in decay rates by any means possible.
So, what is coming in reach are methods to suppress the Kestler Syndrome, and methods to use space resources below the Van Allen Belts and beyond.
So, we need to understand that any effort to build a future will be in some danger from those who find decay a source of their nutrition.
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Last edited by Void (Today 10:11:53)
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#7 Today 11:01:24
- Void
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Re: Jevons Paradox and Social Amplifiers and Reach
In my mind, I followed a path outward to increasing amplification and increasing reach.
It has occurred to me that that path might eventually make the so-called civilization of our solar system able to jump onto an interstellar comet and inhabit it. Granted others have though similar things. Beyond sending spaceships out to extra-solar worlds, that could be a high achievement that could be attained.
So, that is a very far reach to "Take over" 3I/Atlas for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3I/ATLAS But perhaps a larger one.
From there, perhaps to grab solar system comets, and perhaps not so much to crash them into a world, but to convert them into structure and to conserve substances of value. But for some of them, you could crash them into a world like Mars, or Venus, or Mercury.
And that would put you at a point where you might extract the volatiles and other substances captured into orbits of worlds like Mars or Venus or Mercury.
And falling back a bit more from that, could you make very large Spaceships in the Asteroid belt and fly them to orbit other worlds?
So, then end up at start on Earth and reverse order.
Data Centers and other platforms in orbit of Earth>Moon>Deimos/Phobos/Mars>(Materials to orbit)>Asteroid Belt>Supersized Spaceships>Callisto>(Supersized Spaceships)>Outward, even working with comets.
So, I think we are on the right path.
We just have to stop the Anti-Humanists from interfering.
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Last edited by Void (Today 11:14:18)
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