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#26 2026-02-20 14:48:57
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
I want to clone a post here as I want to expand on it beyond Ceres: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 79#p238179 From "Index» Terraformation» Ceres", Post #188.
Quote:
Previously disks and cylinders have been considered, I like a double cone jar:
The above drawing is a "Cut-Away" I show one major "Double Cone" in the center, with a rotator, and four smaller attached "Double-Cones".
#1 might be used as a greenhouse. #3 might be used as a radiator.
the rotator inside of the major double-cone jar, can be throttled up or down as per spin rate. During high spin rate, the air will be pumped out of the gap between the spinner and the spinner and the Jar. But periodically air from inside of the spinner can be let out into the gap, after the spin rate has been reduced. So, spin gravity would be periodic.
I regard the double cone shape as of interest, as it might be made of large compressive blocks of materials, and yet wrapped in tensile materials to hold it together. One method to make the blocks is in a form where regolith can be glued together using a Urea-Microbe method.
I think that the blocks could be glued together with something like tar, and that a balloon inside could further assure air tightness.
An internal spin gravity device could be relatively light weight, like an aircraft structure. It would only have full gravity in a ring at it's largest perimeter, and only when at full speed.
The block structures not themselves spinning could be attached to others of their kind to form very large assemblies.
If facilities at locations similar to Ceres could mass produce these, then some of them could be put into elliptical orbits around the sun to merge with major terrestrial crossing asteroids, and to then consume them.
Some of these might then eventually be made synchronous to a world that has a largely circular orbit around the sun. So they would do repeat returns like a boomerang.
Ending Pending 
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Last edited by Void (2026-02-20 15:03:44)
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#27 2026-02-20 21:28:59
- Void
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
The thing that I think could be of importance is that not that long after Starships are working with the Moon and Deimos/Phobos/Mars, it will be very possible to be working with small worlds like Ceres.
With robotic mater manipulation, and robots building robots, if satisfactory build methods can be developed then I think that at a fast rate their will be habitation of vase amounts creatable from worlds like Ceres.
Imagine a robot action tunneling into Ceres, 50 km deep. Rendering materials, and then they being used to make shelter for intelligent activities. In the tunnels on Ceres the Robots could be quite functional at temperatures below 0 C, I am speculating. They will not need nearly as much lighting as we do. Humans could be there in special spaces, but in orbit of Ceres it may be rather easy to provide g forces suitable to various needs.
Quote:
I want to clone a post here as I want to expand on it beyond Ceres: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 79#p238179 From "Index» Terraformation» Ceres", Post #188.
Quote:
Previously disks and cylinders have been considered, I like a double cone jar:
The above drawing is a "Cut-Away" I show one major "Double Cone" in the center, with a rotator, and four smaller attached "Double-Cones".
#1 might be used as a greenhouse. #3 might be used as a radiator.
the rotator inside of the major double-cone jar, can be throttled up or down as per spin rate. During high spin rate, the air will be pumped out of the gap between the spinner and the spinner and the Jar. But periodically air from inside of the spinner can be let out into the gap, after the spin rate has been reduced. So, spin gravity would be periodic.
The "Double-Cone-Shell" may be thick enough to protect from the radiation environments.
https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads … elding.pdf
Quote:
2 to 3 metres
To protect from radiation on the Moon, a lunar base will need to be shielded by 2 to 3 metres of regolith. This thickness is necessary to reduce the annual radiation doses from an unshielded level to a safer target. The regolith, which is the moon's surface layer of rock and dust, serves as a blanket of protection against cosmic rays and solar particles. The specific amount of regolith required can be estimated using a radiation shielding calculator, which takes into account the density of the local soil, the mass attenuation coefficient, and the surface area to be covered.
NASA
+1
So, this may be very large blocks of Urine-Bricks, perhaps in forms that will resemble Lego's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego
Image Quote: 
Perhaps with a bit of magnetism in them but perhaps also actually glued together in some way.
You could put a metal shell around the double cone structure if you liked, and then wrap it in high tensile materials such as steel bands, and/or Carbon wrap of some kind.
Perhaps some protective materials over that to deal with impactors.
When you had a lightweight rotator inside of one of these, you could calculate that if there is a breach in the spinner, the air loss, being absorbed by the protective outer shell, would not allow a lethal vacuum exposure. Your ears might pop, but you could survive without serious injury.
Some people might say "Where are the windows". Well, if you want to look out at space, perhaps at Ceres, you could have a window somewhere for that, perhaps in attached smaller double cone #2 or #4.
#1 might be arranged so that you had some sunlight ported into it.
It is quite possible that an almost infinite amount of double cone structures could be connected to each other in orbit of Ceres. You might have rings of them around the little dwarf planet.
So, I argue that the potential for Cere may be very large.
And then it looks like fustian power is going to appear some time not too far from now.
Although you could do double cone structures in the hill sphere of Jupiter, using solar, fusion would be quite a boost as well.
Look at the size of the Hill Sphere of Jupiter and some of the other outer worlds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere
Image Quote: 
It is apparently true that for the orbits of Io, Europa, and Ganymede, the radiation is lethal to quite a challenge, but for Callisto it is said to be not too bad. I am going ot guess that some parts of the magnetic field of Jupiter are better than that of for Callisto.
In any case, Callisto being ~2X as bad as Earth/Moon???? It would be a workable situation. And probably Ganymede could be mined as well, I expect.
It is thought that Ceres and Callisto may have Nitrogen, perhaps in the form of Ammonia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(moon)
Quote:
Ammonia on Callisto is a topic of interest in the context of its potential for terraforming.
Callisto's surface is rich in carbon dioxide and molecular oxygen, which are essential for life, but it also contains ammonia.
1
The moon's atmosphere is primarily composed of carbon dioxide, and the presence of ammonia could be significant for sustaining life, as it may help convert carbon dioxide into nitrates, which are necessary for biological processes.
2
The idea of terraforming Callisto involves creating a stable atmosphere with heavy inert gases, which could be achieved by filling the atmosphere with nitrogen and possibly ammonia.
2
The potential for ammonia on Callisto suggests that it could be a suitable candidate for supporting life, especially with the right conditions for conversion and stabilization.
1Thus, ammonia plays a crucial role in the potential for life on Callisto, particularly in the context of its terraforming efforts.
2 Sources
Nitrogen is of course of interest for artificial atmospheres, and for the Urea that might be used with microbes to make giant blocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea
Image Quote: 
https://www.spacereference.org/asteroid … st%20point.
Quote:
Ceres's spectral type G (Tholen) / C (SMASSII) indicates that it is likely to contain water, iron, nickel, cobalt, nitrogen, and ammonia. Ceres's orbit is 1.58 AU from Earth's orbit at its closest point.
It would expect lots of Carbon as well.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-02-20 22:13:47)
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#28 Yesterday 12:17:31
- Void
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
A mixture of matter and energy and means of manipulation makes Earth valuable.
Ceres/Asteroid Belt, are the other place that I see as being similar.
But the difference is the gravity wells.
Deimos/Phobos/Mars are interesting as well, but energy is perhaps not as good and the gravity well for Mars is still somewhat significant.
Mars does have Nitrogen but not so much to spare. If Ceres does have Ammonia, then it has a very useful asset.
Energy for Ceres could be though microwaves or lasers, and possibly space elevators.
If Space Elevators could not carry cargo, they might conduct electricity.
But with a low gravity, and a small tilt in axis, ground solar installations might be practical also.
I am sure that Deimos/Phobos/Mars will not be ignored, but if they did not exist, another way to handle things, would be to join our Moon effort to a Ceres/Asteroid Belt effort.
I sort of think that for that it might be that ships will be built at both locations.
Our Moon could use a bulk of what Ceres has, but Ceres could support a lot of artificial habitat.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (Yesterday 12:27:20)
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#29 Yesterday 20:14:49
- Void
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Re: Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar/Double Cone, Ceres
Quote:
Previously disks and cylinders have been considered, I like a double cone jar:
The above drawing is a "Cut-Away" I show one major "Double Cone" in the center, with a rotator, and four smaller attached "Double-Cones".
#1 might be used as a greenhouse. #3 might be used as a radiator.
the rotator inside of the major double-cone jar, can be throttled up or down as per spin rate. During high spin rate, the air will be pumped out of the gap between the spinner and the spinner and the Jar. But periodically air from inside of the spinner can be let out into the gap, after the spin rate has been reduced. So, spin gravity would be periodic.
My logic for synthetic gravity in a double cone is that the ring with highest gravity is not likely to be required all day long for a human. At least I suspect that.
People do not spend 24 hours a day standing and straining in a 1 g gravity. If much of your day is at 1 g, you might have your bedroom somewhere with lesser gravity.
But time will tell. It seems likely that some humans of some kind will live some of the time on the Moon, and we will get some information on physical reactions to 1/6 g for humans and test biology. That may tell us important things.
I see the double cone as being intermediate between the torus, and the cylinder. I have shown where a Torus could be put into the Double Cone Structure.
So, you could put the typical spokes into it like a Starford Torus, but I think it is just easier to walk up the incline to get to the null gravity points on each apex of each cone.
Ending Pending
So that living in orbit of Ceres might not seem a grim thing, I have added a possible method of greenhouse. Very low gravity and at least somewhat lighted.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (Yesterday 20:41:29)
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