New Mars Forums
You are not logged in.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Announcement
#26 2017-04-15 17:42:34
- louis
- Member
- From: UK
- Registered: 2008-03-24
- Posts: 7,208
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
With the Chryse Planitia you're within striking distance. You're away from good iron ore, water and PV territory if you head for VM first off.
I'd like to clear a "road" south from Chryse towards VM.
How about sending some bouncers to the Marineris Valles? If they survive, they can survey the landing terrain and guide in further landers to a pin point precision landing. Now need for boring flat landscapes! The most interesting thing on Mars is the Marineris Valles, so lets go there!
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
Like button can go here
#27 2017-04-15 18:07:14
- Dook
- Banned
- From: USA
- Registered: 2004-01-09
- Posts: 1,409
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
The Viking Lander site is fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_1
Those rocks don't look too big. Better that then something that looks smooth but turns out to be less than solid.
As the MIT Paper specifies, 10,000 sq metres of ultra light PV panelling is not ridiculous. It's 100 metres by 100 metres and can be laid down in 17 hours.
Dook wrote:louis wrote:Dook -
From the MIT Team's evaluation of the best latitude for PV systems:
"The results show that there is an optimum location for solar architectures around 30 degrees north latitude. The results also show that northern latitudes are always better then their southern counterparts."
http://systemarchitect.mit.edu/docs/cooper10.pdf
So for me, favouring PV, that would push it a little further north of the Viking 1/Pathfinder landing sites.
31 degrees north of the equator is the best spot for solar panels on Mars? Okay, fine, sounds like that's where the settlement needs to be then for solar panel power making and for heating.
This study suggests a 100 kw solar panel farm, that's tens of thousands of panels. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Can't land anywhere close to where Viking 1 is. Have you seen the pictures? You can't land in a rock field.
What size do these rolls of thin PV roll up into?
I looked at Viking 2 pictures. The Viking 1 landing site is probably okay.
Offline
Like button can go here
#28 2017-04-16 03:10:42
- louis
- Member
- From: UK
- Registered: 2008-03-24
- Posts: 7,208
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
The ultra-light arrays have efficiencies of 15% and a mass/area of 0.063kg/m2! So for 10,000 sq. metres that's 630kg. I am guessing you can probably fit that into a couple of cubic metres, but with protection and roll out mechanism...perhaps they are talking about three cubic metres?
louis wrote:The Viking Lander site is fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_1
Those rocks don't look too big. Better that then something that looks smooth but turns out to be less than solid.
As the MIT Paper specifies, 10,000 sq metres of ultra light PV panelling is not ridiculous. It's 100 metres by 100 metres and can be laid down in 17 hours.
Dook wrote:31 degrees north of the equator is the best spot for solar panels on Mars? Okay, fine, sounds like that's where the settlement needs to be then for solar panel power making and for heating.
This study suggests a 100 kw solar panel farm, that's tens of thousands of panels. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Can't land anywhere close to where Viking 1 is. Have you seen the pictures? You can't land in a rock field.
What size do these rolls of thin PV roll up into?
I looked at Viking 2 pictures. The Viking 1 landing site is probably okay.
Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com
Offline
Like button can go here
#29 2017-04-16 17:35:27
- 3015
- Member
- Registered: 2017-01-08
- Posts: 30
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
Louis, the panels described in the paper are very light but they don't pack densely. The paper cited in the one you linked (with the 0.063 kg/m^2 panels) lists a volume of 0.055 m^3 per 35.3 m^2 of panel area. So for 10,000 m^2 of panels the volume would be 15.6 m^3.
Last edited by 3015 (2017-04-16 17:37:37)
Offline
Like button can go here
#30 2024-05-16 13:40:35
- Mars_B4_Moon
- Member
- Registered: 2006-03-23
- Posts: 9,776
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
Mars Loaded With Mineral Closely Associated With Life, NASA Rover Finds
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mars-loaded- … 59322.html
'Settlement' might require reasonable weather temperature for Biosphere farming, access to sub surface waters, some lower altitude or atmosphere for flight or caves to protect from solar storms, near by minerals and Nuclear material for example 'Thorium'?
The spectrometer map from NASA's orbiter shows Thorium in northern Acidalia Planitia, other satellites and other groups, nations have detected other minerals and potential resources on Mars. NASA is looking at Nuclear Power in Space and the Chinese are also expanding Nuclear power in space.
There is also a philosophy of transporting a reactor from Earth to Mars, rather than trying to have a local Mars manufacturing economy.
Kilopower an experimental U.S. project to make new nuclear reactors led by NASA and the DoE’s National Nuclear Security Administration
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/stmd/ … wer-hmqzw/
SAFE were NASA's small experimental nuclear fission reactors for electricity production in space.
https://web.archive.org/web/20231117053 … 049426.pdf
'Low-cost nuclear reactors'
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9197
of course there might be political and scientific reasons, people from the astro-biology community who want a Private Sector mission or NASA astronauts to go to where there may be a possibility of 'life' and push a mission to the most interesting site from a biological perspective.
Offline
Like button can go here
#31 2025-12-11 10:10:56
- tahanson43206
- Moderator
- Registered: 2018-04-27
- Posts: 23,912
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
This is an interesting topic that started in 2017... The participants included Louis, RobertDyck, SpaceNut and someone who went by "Dook".
Looking at that series from 2017, I find it interesting that Louis seems t have prevailed in the discussion, with a crater identified for Calliban's dome.
The Viking 1 site is nearby but not ** too ** close.
To see the site, members and readers can call up the Viking 1 Hirise images on trek.nasa.gov/mars
The down arrow points to "Calliban's" crater, and the right arrow points toward the Viking 1 landing site.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (2025-12-11 10:23:02)
Offline
Like button can go here
#32 2026-01-03 15:17:03
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
The ideal site would be:
(1) Not too far from the equator, avoiding extreme cold in winter and at night.
(2) Close to a source of geothermal energy.
(3) Nearby access to liquid brine or at least easily accessible water ice.
(4) Would allow easy excursions to other parts of the planet, i.e avoid deep ravines and other natural barriers.
(5) Would have low altitude, maximising atmospheric shielding and atmospheric braking potential.
(6) Lower susceptability to impact by dust storms.Whilst we could in theory build a base anywhere, I suspect there are few locations that meet all of these criteria and there may indeed be none.
Criteria 1 is important, as a base too far from the equator would experience extreme cold and darkness for half of the year. If we are planning on using surface domes or polytunnels for agriculture, that is undesirable.
Criteria 2 is a nice bonus. It allows heating of surface structures, provides a source of low grade heat for multiple activities and adds an option for power production.
Criteria 3 is essential. Don't bother considering sites that don't have access to water. Liquid water, even if salty and cold, would be far more useful than ice. But abundant accessible ice is a minimal requirement.
Criteria 4 is important both for scientific exploration and for the city to develop as a hub for resource development. We are going to need minerals of every element on the periodic table. A lot easier if we aren't stuck at the bottom of a ravine.
Criteria 5 makes shipping resources from Earth easier and also makes surface activities less risky.
Criteria 6 is essential. A base site that is regularly engulfed in dust is a bad place to do anything. Solar panels stop working, crops stop growing, dust gets blown into moving parts and people will get lost and die.
Bring site selection back into view.
For RobertDyck re location proposed Calliban's dome...
link goes here:
This image includes the coordinates of the crater proposed for Calliban's dome.
It is near Louis' prefered site for Sagan City which is itself near to the Viking 1 landing site.
I'm hoping the site has favorable properties per your writings on the subject of water and other valuable materials.
(th)
Offline
Like button can go here
#33 2026-01-03 15:19:03
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
Input for site selection in the insitu garage topic
We could use these "ice caves" on Mars for our earth moving equipment, as a water source, and for the radiation protection provided:
THE HEBRUS VALLES EXPLORATION ZONE: ACCESS TO THE MARTIAN SURFACE AND SUBSURFACE
Resource potential and planning for exploration of the Hebrus Valles, Mars
We have water, some of it potentially liquid, carbonates, sulfates, basalts, and other useful materials. If we find a good source of Iron-Manganese ore there, then I'd say we have a candidate for exploration at the very least, and likely a decent place to put a base since we're going to need enormous quantities of water for a decently-sized city.
Offline
Like button can go here
#34 2026-01-04 11:01:31
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
Here is another that has been indicated
Mars has craters filled with water ice, most famously the Korolev Crater, located near the north pole, which holds a massive, year-round deposit of ice due to a "cold trap" effect where cold air settles and prevents melting, creating a beautiful, pristine, snow-like landscape. This 82-kilometer-wide crater features a central mound of ice up to 1.8 kilometers thick, a feature highlighted by the European Space Agency's Mars Express spacecraft.
Key Features of Korolev Crater:
Location: Near the north pole (Mare Boreum quadrangle).
Size: About 81.4 kilometers (50.6 miles) wide.
Ice Volume: Contains approximately 2,200 cubic kilometers of water ice.
Cold Trap: Its deep floor (2 km below the rim) cools the air, creating a stable, icy layer that stays frozen year-round, even in summer.
Other Ice-Filled Craters:
Other craters, particularly in the northern lowlands, also contain significant water ice deposits, sometimes visible as bright patches.
Significance:
These icy craters are crucial for understanding Mars' climate history and potential for past or present life, serving as valuable targets for future exploration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korolev_(Martian_crater)
Offline
Like button can go here
#35 2026-01-08 18:07:26
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
Here is another possible
This mysterious hole on Mars could be key to keeping astronauts alive there]
Offline
Like button can go here
#36 2026-01-10 13:14:59
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
New item: Before the recent computer outage, you had ** just ** posted about two locations on Mars that are obvious and natural sites for evaluation for settlement. I'm hoping you will consider developing these sites.
As we are attempting to move into a new phase of membership, we have unique capabilities that allow us to (potentially) compete with others for the kind of person who is going to be settling Mars, or working on supplies and services to support Mars settlement.
Your identification of two attractive sites could be the starting point for entire Index level Categories.
This is entirely up to you to consider. No one else is going to take on the awesome responsibility that falls to you as the Senior Administrator.
What I have in mind is creating Index level entry for specific locations on Mars.
Such an Index level might have a name like: Settlement Sites
This would be at the same level as New Mars (Mars Society) (Acheron Labs) (Infrastructure Development) (Dorsa Brevia) etc...
Inside that new Category would be forums for each site. The three candidates to start with are:
1) Calliban's Crater
2) One of the two openings you found
3) The other opening you found.In addition, this new Category would include fora for actual settlement sites. At some point, humans are going to land and begin work to create a settlement. We can have a Category in place to allow us to create a forum to track just that landing.
These fora would be identified by a short text name and the coordinates.
For example, Calliban's Crater Latitude Longitude
Here is an example of an image that we might provide for each location:
file.php?id=41The crater with the label "Calliban" is the right size to hold a dome with the same diameter as the New Orleans Superbowl
More choices give a better reason for where we will do Mars construction
Offline
Like button can go here
#37 Today 13:30:23
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
We could pick any location that we can land but if the resource for building are not there pick any location will cause failure.
Not only must the building resource must be present but easy for extraction and water.
Whether its basalt, Iron, or any other ore at high enough concentration.
Sands of basalt would make it easier to process but that is just one material to construct with.
Basalt sand is widespread on Mars, forming vast dark dunes, especially around the North Polar erg (Olympia Undae), where winds sculpt them into active patterns, and in regions like Meridiani Planum (seen by Opportunity) and near volcanoes like Syrtis Major, often appearing dark or blueish due to mineral composition, contrasting with the reddish dust and sometimes mixed with gypsum.
Key Locations & Features:
North Polar Region (Olympia Undae): A massive ring of basaltic (and some gypsum) sand dunes, some over 100 feet high, showing active movement and sublimation-driven "tree-like" streaks.
Meridiani Planum: Explored by the Opportunity rover, this area features basaltic sand grains, sometimes forming spherical aggregates, with distinct dark patches.
Syrtis Major: A large volcanic region where dark basaltic sand and rock are prominent, showcasing volcanic origins for the sand.
Impact Craters: Many craters expose underlying basalt layers, providing sources for sand that gets reworked by wind.
Characteristics:
Color: Dark, often appearing black or bluish in images due to volcanic minerals like olivine.
Formation: Created from volcanic eruptions and mechanical weathering, then shaped by wind (aeolian processes).
Activity: Dunes are very active, shifting significantly over time, influenced by seasonal frost and dry ice sublimation.
How it's Found:
Orbital imagery (like NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) and its HiRISE camera) reveals large dune fields.
Rovers (Curiosity, Opportunity) analyze surface sands up close, confirming their basaltic composition
If you want to use iron for steel and for stainless you have a different list of locations where it is know to be.
High-Concentration Iron Locations on Mars Meridiani Planum: Known for large, concentrated deposits of gray, crystalline hematite (\(Fe_{2}O_{3}\)), particularly small spherules known as "blueberries".
Valles Marineris & Chaos Terrains: These areas show signs of ancient water activity that concentrated iron oxides.
Northern Lowlands (Utopia/Amazonis Planitia): Identified by orbital gamma-ray spectrometers as having the highest concentrations of surface iron.
Impact Craters (Southern Highlands): High-grade ore systems likely exist in the subsurface, exposed by large crater impacts.
Meteorites: Nickel-iron meteorites are relatively common on the surface, offering a source of high-grade, pre-reduced iron that does not require smelting.
Offline
Like button can go here
#38 Today 14:14:27
- tahanson43206
- Moderator
- Registered: 2018-04-27
- Posts: 23,912
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
For SpaceNut re #37
This is another of your very interesting posts! It will surely be helpful to someone who has no idea where to put a settlement on Mars.
However, our situation is a little different. kbd512 is about to make a decision for where he wants to site his structure.
Once kbd512 makes a decision, all the alternate futures are collapsed into a single location.
That is how we are going to proceed. kbd512 has a responsibility that no one else can bear.
Fortunately, he has the leadership qualities we need.
The BEST location for kbd512's settlement is wherever he decides to put it!
I am looking forward to his announcement.
(th)
Last edited by tahanson43206 (Today 14:16:17)
Offline
Like button can go here
#39 Today 14:29:01
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,271
Re: What Are The Best Settlement Sites on Mars?
NASA takes years, often decades, to plan Mars missions, developing concepts, technologies (like the Artemis program for lunar practice), and identifying locations through extensive studies, with initial human missions aimed for the late 2030s, building on learning from robotic explorers and lunar experiences for exploration and science goals. The decision process involves long-term strategic planning, refining objectives, and overcoming massive technical hurdles over many years before a specific mission is finalized.
Key Factors & Timelines:
Long-Term Vision: NASA's strategy uses the Moon (Artemis Program) as a testbed for deep space operations, with plans stretching over 20 years to prepare for Mars.
Technology Development: Years are spent developing crucial systems for life support, propulsion, and power, with breakthroughs needed before missions can launch.
Mission Formulation: Identifying specific locations and scientific goals involves extensive study and planning, with rough outlines for crewed missions developed years in advance.
Current Goals: NASA aims to send humans to Mars in the 2030s, using lessons from Artemis to inform these future deep-space endeavors.
In essence, the "how many years" isn't a fixed number but a multi-decade commitment, evolving from initial ideas to concrete plans, with decisions on specific locations and 'whys' refined over time as technology and understanding advance.
The lack of information about the topography, climate, environment, landmass, and gravity on the red planet made it difficult to contemplate building construction solutions. The availability of resources such as water and fossil fuels on Mars is questionable because no evidence of human civilization has been found on the planet to date.
Additionally, transporting building materials and labor from earth to mars would be expensive because of the heavy fuel consumption by spaceships. So, exploring a new set of locally-available materials on mars seems like a viable solution to help reduce the stress on earth’s resources. With this intent, professionals such as architects, scientists, and geospatial experts collaborated to map the feasibility of Martian resources to be used as building materials.
Offline
Like button can go here