Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

bmk · 2003-12-19 10:37:34

Hmmm... bmk, it's *vastly* more cost-effective to purify seawater etc on earth than to ship it from the moon. No matter what new cheap space transport system will be developed, it will stay cheaper to do it on earth. Some arab countries have already invested a lot of money in de-salination plants, like Saoudi Arabia... In the 60's-70's there were even plans to transport icebergs to Africa, using heavy-duty tugboats. And recently Russia revealed they were going to build ships with purification-abilities, so they could go to ports of cities in need and process the water there. (I'll try to find the link for the last one)

Rxke, I was bringing the subject of transporting lunar ice back to earth as an example of the business opportunities available in exploiting space resources.

Anyway, if we are going to live, work and play in space we must tap resources available in space. I think that's more economical and efficient than coming back to Earth for everything (supplies).

For some reason I hold the opinion that Moon water maybe healthier than purifying sea water.

bmk · 2003-12-19 10:42:37

Rxke, I do agree with your statement that striving for space is beneficial to Black Africa in their quest for improved standard of living and general development. I was somewhat shocked to see that expressed in this forum. So I guess I am making some friends here.

Rxke · 2003-12-19 11:00:58

On Bill's 'idea' the problem with the location is that it's percieved as non-stable... politically. Too much wars in the recent past, no westerner big-money guy would want to invest in large-scale launch infrastructure, if not give some serious guarantees the region is politically stable.

Of course, The African countries should not have to wait for foreign bankers...

Rxke · 2003-12-19 11:14:52

Why shocked? Is that so outrageous a comment?

Maybe b'cause i said the current help-programmes are belittling. It might be in good faith, but they solve next to nothing. Give a man a fish etc...
Africa has been plundered and politically messed up for centuries, is still recovering from that past... It is a continent with a lot of potential, and it would be in the interest for *all* humanity to tap those resources for the deployment of the continent and the people itself. A prosperous and happy Africa, proud once again, would ease a lot of tensions on the political agendas, i'd think.

Bill White · 2003-12-19 11:39:36

On Bill's 'idea' the problem with the location is that it's percieved as non-stable... politically. Too much wars in the recent past, no westerner big-money guy would want to invest in large-scale launch infrastructure, if not give some serious guarantees the region is politically stable.
Of course, The African countries should not have to wait for foreign bankers...

Agreed. Maybe use Saudi money?

From a purely geographical perspective, Dar es Salaam, Mombasa or even Mogadishu are ideal locations for an Islamic spaceport. If cooperation with India proves feasible, so much the better since sea transport from India to these locations is quite convenient.

This all may be 100 years away, yet if the equatorial nations can promote themselves as the ideal location to launch outbound spacecraft and as the ideal location to recover and ship incoming space resources to the rest of Earth, these nations could be the epi-center of an economic boom.

Rxke · 2003-12-19 12:21:00

Dar-es-Salaam... Maybe some X, or rather Y prize people would be interested. The investment should be lower than the big infrastructure used by NASA et al, but of course legally exporting rocket-science is always difficult. An Armadillo II type vehicule could be built in Africa, for a reasonable price, there's a lot of info freely available on the 'net, lately, so maybe this is the time to do something like that (yea, i'm a dreamer!)

Is there something like ESA in Africa (i mean universities and industry collaborating on bigger projects...)
If not, why (not)?

Bill White · 2003-12-19 12:34:32

Dar-es-Salaam... Maybe some X, or rather Y prize people would be interested. The investment should be lower than the big infrastructure used by NASA et al, but of course legally exporting rocket-science is always difficult. An Armadillo II type vehicule could be built in Africa, for a reasonable price, there's a lot of info freely available on the 'net, lately, so maybe this is the time to do something like that (yea, i'm a dreamer!)
Is there something like ESA in Africa (i mean universities and industry collaborating on bigger projects...)
If not, why (not)?

The demand for launch to LEO has fallen through the floor and the space launch industry has tremendous over capacity relative to demand. This is one reason there is little incentive to greatly lower launch costs. There just aren't enough payloads to recoup the R&D expense through the benefits of lower launch costs.

So, in the current economic climate, there is NO profit in a new launch facility. Nations undertake these ventures for pestige and for military capability since Earth to LEO is essentially ICBM technology. The ESA, for example, states on its website that independent access to LEO is essential to EU security interests. Which means they don't "trust" the USA with LEO hegemony.

???

Now, if we put some permanent settlements "out there" or find a viable commercial mining scheme and then demand for launch sevices will skyrocket (pun intended).

bmk · 2003-12-19 12:50:12

Dar-es-Salaam... Maybe some X, or rather Y prize people would be interested. The investment should be lower than the big infrastructure used by NASA et al, but of course legally exporting rocket-science is always difficult. An Armadillo II type vehicule could be built in Africa, for a reasonable price, there's a lot of info freely available on the 'net, lately, so maybe this is the time to do something like that (yea, i'm a dreamer!)
Is there something like ESA in Africa (i mean universities and industry collaborating on bigger projects...)
If not, why (not)?

Impressive comment and suggestion Rxke. How can a company like mine introduce an initiative like this to any Black African country on the Equator?

Hell when BCML eventually begin such ventures in Africa we could not win the support unless we obtain some support from Western experts.

Rxke · 2003-12-19 13:34:43

How can a company like mine introduce an initiative like this to any Black African country on the Equator?

I'd guess it's mostly politics...

Try to contact universities, science minister, or even the government by e-mal, or more 'impressive': written mail (looks more personal, everybody can fire off an e-mail, but real paper-letters, esp. from far away, stress the point you're serious...)

Ask for their opinion, or suggestions... I think local educational centres and busines would be ecstatic to know someone would want to do this...
Try to get your ideas submitted in big conventions, etc...

But as Bill White points out, LEO is quite a saturated mrket, so you'd either have to go directly for GEO (Difficult and expensive) or suborbital, X-Prize stuff... (Cheap and a good starting point to learn the ropes...)

Rxke · 2003-12-19 13:53:21

BTW, X-Prize, sub orbital-tourist stuff is quite 'cheap' if you see John Carmack's numbers for his armadilloaerospace.com vehicule: (bold text is my doing)

"Just building the vehicle costs less than $100k, most of the money is in building multiple iterations of everything as you figure out exactly how you actually need to spend the money:
$ 6k 850 gallon fiberglass tank
$ 2k High pressure carbon fiber pressurant tank and regulator
$ 1k Honeycomb composite panels
$ 5k Aluminum fabrication for cabin
$15k Redundant parachutes, drogues, drogue cannons, releases
$13k Fiber optic gyro based IMU
$ 8k Unrestricted (supersonic / high altitude) GPS
$ 2k PC104 systems
$ 5k video, audio, and data communications
$20k Engine machining, catalysts, laser cut plates
$ 5k Plumbing, valves, etc
$ 5k Fastblock external insulation
For powered landings instead of parachute landings, delete the parachutes and add:
$ 4k Laser altimeter
$ 4k Wire rope isolator landing gear
You could trivially spend an order of magnitude more by just using "space certified" versions of everything, but the important point is that standard industrial versions of many things are perfectly adequate. In many cases, todays standard industrial practice is far ahead of the best that could be done at any price in the early sixties.
This is all with free labor for assembly and testing, but that is still only a couple hundred man hours for a full vehicle. We are expecting to destroy the first vehicle in some (unmanned) testing mishap along the way, and build another one mostly from scratch. That will take less than two months, depending on lead times for some items."

That, and the fact that his site has almost all the step-by-step instructions how to build your own craft... You don't need no 'real' rocket-scientists, just some good engineers... just read the instructions how to build your own

bmk · 2003-12-19 17:24:46

Thanks for sharing Rxke. I'll look into that link "How to build a rocket." You know BCML Corp. is also a member of the X Prize. Happy to know we got fellow X Prizers here.

Aetius · 2003-12-19 19:25:17

BMK, it would be symbolic. If the symbolism helps turn a profit, I'm all for it. :;):

bmk · 2003-12-19 20:36:14

BMK, it would be symbolic. If the symbolism helps turn a profit, I'm all for it. :;):

Well we are currently selling novelty ad spaces.

$1 to get your name and country of birth published on our general sponsorship list. This list will be apart of the contents in our Time Capsule that will orbit earth. Also this list will be published on our web site.

$2.50 will fetch interested persons a brief biographical sketch of themselves along with a special remark stating why are they interested in helping to shape humanity's future in space. These remarks will also be apart of the Time Capsule contents and published on our web site.

We are currently trying to get a celebrity to endorse our project. If this is successful we may see a million or more people sign up. If everything goes according to plan then we'll have enough money to cover the cost and a little left over to reward stockholders with a stock buy back or small dividend payment.

Good News: We have three people from Nigeria who have already signed up on our general sponsorship list and one person from Brazil. So that's not bad since we just started to promote this endeavor online and haven't even started on the college campuses yet.

bmk · 2003-12-19 20:41:07

At this time and considering the state of the world economy, grass roots efforts will probably be the most efficient way to garner capital for suborbital space ventures. Minimum overhead by outsourcing and allowing a more democratic form of participation by normal people. Any comments?

Rxke · 2003-12-20 03:29:10

A celebrity in the science world is Neil De Grasse Tyson, he works in the new york observatory, published *a lot* of papers. Very interesting guy... One of the few African American people that made it into the scientific elite.. Comes from the Bronx, got 'crazy' about the stars after one quick look through a telescope... and now he's one of the world's most famous astronomers.

Try to google for his contact info...

BTW Im not an X-Prize contender but i'm following the news, and i saw your entry into the race. Good luck!

bmk · 2003-12-22 18:46:42

Thanx for the info Rxke. I needed that.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2003-12-19 10:37:34

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#27 2003-12-19 10:42:37

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#28 2003-12-19 11:00:58

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#29 2003-12-19 11:14:52

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#30 2003-12-19 11:39:36

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#31 2003-12-19 12:21:00

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#32 2003-12-19 12:34:32

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#33 2003-12-19 12:50:12

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#34 2003-12-19 13:34:43

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#35 2003-12-19 13:53:21

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#36 2003-12-19 17:24:46

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#37 2003-12-19 19:25:17

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#38 2003-12-19 20:36:14

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#39 2003-12-19 20:41:07

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#40 2003-12-20 03:29:10

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

#41 2003-12-22 18:46:42

Re: Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006

Board footer