Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

Void · 2025-10-28 20:27:00

This gal really is a negative Nellie. But I respect that, these questions need asking and answering. But she should not be judging absolutely prior to discussion.

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE Quote:

Startup Raised Tens of Millions of Dollars for Giant Mirrors in Space for Light on Demand
YouTube
Gabriel Torch
107 views

Who owns space? Not you. You also do not own me or what I might want to do. But we do have to establish common methods of living.

https://www.space.com/space-exploration … tastrophic
Quote:

This company's plan to launch 4,000 massive space mirrors has scientists alarmed: 'From an astronomical perspective, that's pretty catastrophic'
News
By Tereza Pultarova published October 21, 2025
Reflect Orbital says their light-on-demand idea has generated significant interest from commercial and government customers.

Quote:

Reflect Orbital
Reflect Orbital, a California-based startup, has raised tens of millions of dollars for its ambitious plan to launch a constellation of 4,000 giant mirrors in space. The company aims to create "light on demand" by reflecting sunlight back to Earth after dark, potentially extending daytime hours for energy production, agriculture, and urban life. The startup has secured significant funding, including a $1.25 million Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) contract from the U.S. Air Force, and has filed for a government license to launch its first satellite, EARENDIL-1, in April 2026. However, the project has raised significant concerns among astronomers and environmental advocates due to the potential impact on light pollution and the disruption of natural night sky observations.
Space.com
+5

Here is the company, Reflect Orbital: https://www.reflectorbital.com/
Quote:

Sunlight on demand
Reflect Orbital is delivering sunlight by building a constellation of in-space mirror

Instead of worrying about her sleep at night lets say it can start by being in places where it is more welcome. Such as places with fine soil but short growing seasons. If you could convert a growing season of 70 days to 90 days in a valley in Alaska, Yukon, or Siberia for instance.

They deal with the midnight sun keeping them awake in the summer anyway so they might think it is OK. But that would be only a few days a year.

What about solar panels in deserts? If you have a huge installation and few people, then you could use the mirrors for that.

What about the South Pacific where nutrient deserts exist. Floating solar power plants could pump nutrients up to stimulate the growth of algae and fish. This could be considered a Carbon Sink in part, because some of that organics would sink to the bottom of the sea to be sequestered for a long time.

What about at sea upwind from a desert, to cause rain in the desert?

I accept that that gal has the right to ask questions, but our existence depends on gifts from the universe always. This is no different.

And now what about Luna, Mars, Mercury, Venus, Etc. A mirror that did not reflect UV, (If possible) could make life possible on these worlds in there dark spots. Venus, Mars? For Venus, cloud cities that stay on the dark side of the planet. For Mars Heat Oasis situations in the dead of a winter situation.

What about solar powered spaceships?

As for Space Junk, that is going to be cleaned up.

Also these mirrors are not likely to be put in LEO. They would be oculted by the Earth almost half of the time if they were.

And above LEO, the space junk problem is not nearly as much a problem.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-28 20:48:48)

Void · 2025-10-29 10:03:16

OK, let's have a look at this:

I am going to imagine targeting multiple locations on the planet.

Greenland: https://www.bing.com/maps/search?FORM=H … .3&style=r

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view … t=0&sim=11
Image Quote:

Many places in the North and also Chile have Fjord: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord

Greenland and some other places have Fjords and ice caps. Mirrors from orbit could help keep a Fjord open year around, and also support an OTEC-Like operation for power and fresh water. Evaporation may be expected to fall as more snow to the ice cap in many cases depending on winds, I suppose. Plankton will be stimulated as well.

By lifting water vapor to the ice caps the ocean levels are reduced. (But of course you do not want to stimulate the melting of flowing glaciers.

This might also be done to refresh glaciers in mountains also, and even if we become desperate this could be done in Antarctica.

We can also suppose that some of the organic activity will deposit into deep cold water with the brine, and will be sequestered for thousands of years, reducing CO2 in the atmosphere.

Arctic Ocean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Ocean
Image Quote: Map_of_the_Arctic_region_showing_the_Northeast_Passage%2C_the_Northern_Sea_Route_and_Northwest_Passage%2C_and_bathymetry.png

In the spring and fall, these mirrors might be diverted to protect crops from untimely frosts.

New glaciers could probably be forced into existence with this process. Glaciers can cease to exist due to melting or from insufficient snowfall.

So Glaciers might be enhanced or created with this method.

And this might be important for the western coastal mountain glaciers of the America's.

OTEC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_the … conversion

https://ar.inspiredpencil.com/pictures- … ergy-plant
Image Quote: Global-map-of-OTEC-activities-and-resource-in-terms-of-the-temperature-difference-between.png

Where OTEC was already anticipated, light from mirrors might warm the water even more than it naturally is.

I do have sympathy for major observatories. They have to be considered.

And we should be making more telescopes in space and perhaps on the Moon.

The Mirrors may help pay for those telescopes or at least stimulate the rockets that can do both mirrors and telescopes.

Working with America's Greate Basin?

https://legacy.climas.arizona.edu/blog/ … agers.html

Image Quote: https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.8d5aaee8022 … ImgRaw&r=0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Basin
Image Quote:

Causing increased evaporation off the coast of California, mostly could lead to more snowfal into the inland mountains. Then the snow melted may in part be sent into the Great Basin.

My recollections are that once water gets into the Great Basin it falls as precipitation about 7 times before departing.

If lakes form inside of the Basin and are salty, they might be evaporated by mirror light, so that water will move as vapor inland even more.
Of course you could have solar panels on top of water as well, to help maintain inland lakes, and to collect power.

This would to some degree reduce the ocean levels.

Ending Penging

Last edited by Void (2025-10-29 10:48:06)

Void · 2025-10-30 03:25:11

Mirrors might be used in space propulsions, and of course to make spots on the Moon more supportive of human efforts. I will probably return to those later.

I think for Mars of course they could be very important. Many spots of Mars may be economically preferred, but with Mirrors, I think the polar ice caps and the surrounded terrain will be attractive.

It is possible that the North Ice Cap would be the earlier target, as during global dust storms, it may be a source of cold while Hellas would be a source of heat to start up the global dust storm. Not sure of that but it is a maybe.

Active solar robots which could poise on the polar surfaces, could receive both normal summer sunlight and winter time light projected from orbital mirrors. Masses of ice represent situations where the harvesting of water will also provide a sort of shelter from some of the harsh features of Mars, such as radiation and thermal variations.

Rather than melting the ice cap from the top down, you would make it into a Swiss cheese of tunnels in the ices. Tunnels and vaults maintained at perhaps -10 to -20 degrees C would make the tunnels suitable to certain types of robots and of some use to humans as well.

Using heat pumps, a minority of space could be kept warm for human comfort.

It is possible that orbital mirrors could be in part built from materials of Phobos and Deimos.

The input of sunlight to the north ice cap in winter from mirrors may reduce the power of the engine that runs global dust storms.

The Solar Robots on the polar surfaces would likely be vertical and perhaps light orienting and may have legs or robot assistant that can help reposition them.

Methane and Oxygen could be manufactured in massive amounts and shipped by pipelines all around the planet, making it more habitable. Methane leaks will help in warming the planet. At any location with energy CO2 could be split to yield Oxygen and Methane piped in could be reacted with the Oxygen to produce water.

Later the South Polar Ice Cap might be treated in a similar manner.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-30 03:39:04)

Void · 2025-10-30 10:56:47

Because NASA has been focused on finding alien life, perhaps we do not know as much about other aspects of Mas such as Phobos and Deimos. I am not complaining. We do have some information after all. But we really cannot get as final for plans of how to settle Mars/Phobos/Deimos as might be desired. We can speculate on options at this point, supposing various possible actual conditions.

There are several other topics that could have materials that can become tributary to this topic:

Index» Terraformation» Robot Worlds:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=11221

Index» Terraformation» Rubble Pile Sinter/Glass Jar:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 30#p234730

Index» Science, Technology, and Astronomy» Asteroid/off-Earth mining:
Calliban has a good post: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 26#p235126
VOID interferes: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 36#p235136

As I see it, unless Phobos and Deimos have the materials, to get lots of stuff, we might want to follow Callibans advice.
Of course I will modify it.

Unless we want to go to the trouble of accessing major icy asteroids at about 3.0 AU, going after "Crumb" asteroids might be a good way to go.

I would modify the capture device from a bag to a cone shaped canister. The reason for this would be that as your system "Digested" asteroid crumbs, periodically it could expand it's size.

The cone would not be intended to hold high air pressures, but to work with low air pressures.

Like a sea creature in a shell, it would expand the perimeter of the cone and the Base Door, as materials became available from previously processed bits of asteroid.

I am hoping that a gyrotron such as may be used to drill hydrothermal wells can turn the materials into dust. This may release volatile substances as gasses. Water vapor is hoped for, and this may reduce Iron in the materials if Hydrogen were repeatedly added to the Gyrotron beam.

Even though the pressures within may be rather low, the seal on the "Base Door" will matter, I expect and will be a problem to solve.

As far as collecting the released volatiles perhaps a cold trap will do. Water collected would be split into Hydrogen and Oxygen and then the Hydrogen added back to the Gyrotron Beam.

Dust collected could be magnetically separated to yield a high and low Iron content.

Methods of propulsion would be desired. I presume an electric power supply to be present that is not shown in the cone drawing.

One method of propulsion I am hoping to try for would have LOX pushed though the pores of a ceramic 'Nozzle" and a laser beam to convert the LOX into a hot gas. The hope is to not erode the Ceramic Nozzle too fast.

Alternately Oxygen could be made into frozen pellets and ejected by Mass Driver, to give thrust.

Alternately if good enough Iron were available, it could be used in either a Neumann Driver or MagDrive propulsion system.

Alternately magnetic dust could be ejected using an on-board mass driver.

I do not favor bringing the processed materials exclusively to Earth/Moon, but to supply refilling stations in solar orbits that spacecraft can visit.

In "Robot Worlds" I have this illustration: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 47#p235047
Image Quote:

Here I show 3 concentric orbits between Earth and Mars:

My presumption is that most traffic by tonnage will be solar electric in nature. So, having refill stations in circular solar orbits will make sense. The harvesting of materials from small asteroids most proximate to one of these orbits may make sense.

If this method is developed it could then be extended into the Asteroid belt which apparently has many small asteroids, only now detected.
https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/aster … roid-belt/
Quote:

3 min read
NASA’s Webb Reveals Smallest Asteroids Yet Found in Main Asteroid Belt

Quote:

“We now understand more about how small objects in the asteroid belt are formed and how many there could be,” said Tom Greene, an astrophysicist at NASA’s Ames Research Center in California’s Silicon Valley and co-author on the paper presenting the results. “Asteroids this size likely formed from collisions between larger ones in the main belt and are likely to drift towards the vicinity of Earth and the Sun.”

So, a continuous replenishment, may be occuring.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-30 11:43:45)

Void · 2025-10-31 10:19:56

So, questions about Neumann Drive.

Quote:

Neumann Drive offers a superior electric propulsion system compared to traditional chemical rockets, particularly in terms of specific impulse and thrust generation.
Specific Impulse: Neumann Drive's electric propulsion system can achieve specific impulse levels that are nearly twice that of chemical rockets, making it suitable for long-haul missions where fuel savings are critical.
1
Thrust Generation: The system utilizes a solid metallic propellant rod and a patented cathodic arc discharge technology, allowing for high thrust levels and exceptional delta-v capabilities.
1
Cost and Efficiency: While chemical rockets excel in raw power for launch phases, Neumann Drive's electric propulsion is more fuel-efficient and can sustain missions in low Earth orbit (LEO) with reduced propellant mass.
1
In summary, Neumann Drive's electric propulsion system represents a significant advancement over traditional chemical rockets, offering improved performance and efficiency for various space missions.

I think that as suggested elsewhere by Calliban Silicon could be the propellant.

https://neumannspace.com/neumann-drive/

My impression from searches on my phone is that the device, tested in orbit, works and could be scaled up.

Because a probe has visited it, I will investigate 433 Eros: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/433_Eros
Image Quote: Eros_-_PIA02923_%28color%29.jpg
Quote:

Physical characteristics
Dimensions
16.84±0.06 km (mean diameter)[1][5]
34.4 × 11.2 × 11.2 km[1][6]
Mass (6.687±0.003)×1015 kg[5]
Mean density 2.67±0.03 g/cm3[1][5]

So, if you set up a mining base there is plenty of "Ore" to last a long time.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view … ajaxserp=0
Image Quote: OIP.Ta8nERlpnxp9TmHA-Y0tGQHaD5?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain&o=7&rm=3

I will grant that it is not ideal, it has about 10% inclination. It crosses many or the possible circular orbits between 1.0 AU and 2.0 AU. (Not quite 1 to 2 AU).

The story of water on stony asteroids is improving. The original report from AI that there is no water on Stony asteroids now allows for implantation by the solar wind, by impactors, and finally that the parent body of the stony asteroid may have had brines of water in it.

https://christophegaron.com/articles/re … ploration/
Quote:

Copilot Search Branding
Images
Videos
Recent research has detected water and hydroxyl (OH) on the asteroid 433 Eros, which challenges previous assumptions about the distribution of water in our solar system. This discovery was made using the NASA Infrared Telescope Facility (IRTF) to analyze reflectance spectra, revealing absorption features near 3 μm that indicate the presence of water and hydroxyl. The findings suggest that processes responsible for water creation on large airless bodies also occur on smaller bodies, indicating a more dynamic system at play.
Astrobiology
+1

But we are still dealing with this about Carbon on 433 Eros: Quote:

No carbon
Interpretation of absorption features suggests Eros is composed of an undifferentiated assemblage of moderate to high temperature minerals (iron, pyroxene, and olivine, but no carbon).
Spectrophotometry /0.33 to 1.07 microns/ of 433 Eros and compos…

The proper answers possible would be: "No Carbon was detected", or that "the levels of Carbon are below measurement capabilities".

In any case Carbon could be imported if necessary.

The asteroid should have useful substances.

https://www.astronomytrek.com/news/the- … id-mining/
Quote:

After asteroid 433 Eros flew close to the Earth in 1998, scientists estimated that the rocky body contained around 20 billion tons of precious metals, including gold, platinum and titanium. This would have an equivalent value of $11 trillion in today’s prices.
This figure was based on the fact that stony asteroids contain roughly 3% precious metals and when one considers there are over 9,000 known asteroids travelling in a close orbit to Earth, is it any wonder scientists are wondering whether the next gold rush will take place in outer space.
Although the technology required to carry out an asteroid mining operation in space are currently in the early stages, there are a number of factors that would make the prospect attractive. This includes the fact that landing and taking off from asteroids would be easier than many other space bodies, due to their lower gravitational force. In addition, heavier metals are found in considerably higher concentrations than on Earth, and are distributed more evenly throughout its mass.

It might be worth bringing those back to Earth. But for more common substances, I of course am interested in establishing "Solar Rings" of refill stations for spacecraft using Neumann Drive and Magdrive.

But these also could have Oxygen refills for chemical propulsion, I suppose. I am not sure how helpful that would be.

433 Eros is not the only asteroid that could be mined. But it approaches Earth and almost reaches the asteroid belt, so if you wanted a progression of refilling rings between 1.0 and 2.1 AU it might be a helpful source of propulsion resources.

Ending Pending

When I say "Solar Rings", that is just a place holder. These could be modified to be somewhat excentric if that was useful.

Last edited by Void (2025-10-31 10:57:55)

Void · 2025-10-31 11:18:54

To relate the previous post to the idea of Mirrors, I might suggest that if you had a Mirror production process with electric generators of some kind, you might retain them while you were further from the sun but release some of them as you got closer to the sun. They then might navigate to various purposes such as supplying the refilling stations. In fact, as such a device might have a lifetime, they might arrive at a refilling station and the Mirror be rendered into propulsion materials.

I have already suggested putting cobble sized rocks into chicken-wire enclosures to provide radiation shielding. Perhaps "Pillows" of such might be joined to make a double walled enclosure. If you don't like chicken-wire, then perhaps screening would suite your desires or a cloth of some kind. Ribs of simple types of steel or iron might also be used in the structure.

OK a ring or "Regolith Pearls" then, orbiting 433 Eros:

You could have synthetic gravity machines inside of them. You could anchor solar power devices on their exteriors.

You might classify your materials into Slabs, Cobbles, and Dirt. The Cobbles you might examine individually for useful metal content. The Dirt you might process into resources. The Slabs you might fashion into shelter structures using metal fixtures, rock anchors, and perhaps metal bands or cables.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-31 11:30:45)

Void · 2025-10-31 14:17:07

Considering the two previous posts before this one, I will say that it could be that photon sailing could be used to move mass from a parent asteroid to a refilling station in a solar orbit.

Of course the sails will be of metals or silicon so not as good as plastic sails, but give 3, 5, 10 years to travel, then maybe it could be done.

The sails arriving a refill station would then be consumed to make propellants.

Ending Pending

Void · 2025-10-31 21:24:00

Bags of rocks tied together into spheres, or some other shape, I suppose that they could be called "Rock Shells".

From post #8:

OK a ring or "Regolith Pearls" then, orbiting 433 Eros:

A plurality of Starships could be mounted together into an initial synthetic gravity machine(s)

Thie could possibly work for the average rubble pile. 433 Eros and 25143 Itokawa which are considered to be stony, and Ryugu, and Bennu, which are considered to be carbonaceous. In addition, we have the two Mars moons Phobos and Deimos.

In addition to establishing such shelters, but we may hope also to do as suggested in previous posts and establish refilling stations between the Earth/Moon and the location of 2.1 AU the inner edge of the asteroid belt.

Stony asteroids seem to have more water than 0%. Carbonaceous asteroids have considerably more. Also, the have some Carbon and perhaps a bit of Nitrogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-type_asteroid
Quote:

C-type (carbonaceous /ˌkɑːrbəˈneɪʃəs/) asteroids are the most common variety, forming around 75% of known asteroids.[1] They are volatile-rich and distinguished by a very low albedo because their composition includes a large amount of carbon, in addition to rocks and minerals. They have an average density of about 1.7 g/cm3.
They lie most often at the outer edge of the asteroid belt, 3.5 au (520 million km; 330 million mi) from the Sun, where 80% of the asteroids are of this type[2], whereas only 40% of asteroids at 2 au (300 million km; 190 million mi) from the Sun are C-type.[3] The proportion of C-types may actually be greater than this, since C-types are much darker (and hence less detectable) than most other asteroid types, except for D-types and others that lie mostly at the extreme outer edge of the asteroid belt.

Small Asteroids found: https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/aster … roid-belt/

So, a span of about 1.1 AU may accommodate this.

At 2.0 AU the sunlight will be 1/4 that of for Earth/Moon.

Mirrors then need to be perhaps >4 times as large at 2.0 AU than for 1.0 AU. These then may be shined on either solar panels of heat engines.

In the case where the disassembly of a rubble asteroid will reveal 1 or more large slabs of rocks, additional bags of small rocks and metal fixtures could allow the formation of very large caves in which protections from the most harsh aspects of space could be made available.

Of course, Mars/Phobos/Deimos are about in the center of the span of 1.0 to 2.1 AU.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-10-31 21:46:03)

Void · Yesterday 12:10:25

This is of some interest in my opinion:

Two partial "Rock Shells". With a rotator inside. The "Rock Shells" would be a collection of bags of rocks from a rubble pile. The bag could be of something like Chicken Wire or screening, or cloth of some kind. The Brown objects would be of such a collection of bags of rocks.

This would give protection to the rotator from damaging radiation types, and thermal fluctuations, and many impactors. The rocks will have an unknown insulation property. Some infrared will leak out, but overheating in the interior is a possibility.

So with two half domes, some additional leakage might occur depending on the size of the gap between the two halves.

I expect that additional "Pearls" can be created to host microgravity factories to produce Iron and Oxygen from finer regolith.

Not shown are solar power supplies, perhaps involving mirrors, solar panels or heat engines.

So, in orbit of Mars, perhaps there can be protections, and better solar energy, and perhaps easier attainment of 1 gravity simulation.

The point being that when rockets land on Mars they might then ascend to orbit and be refilled at least with Oxygen from the materials of Phobos and Deimos.

The atmosphere might be inflated to 2x or even perhaps 2.5x what it is in which case, it may even be possible to aero-burn into orbit of Mars directly.

More can and likely will be said about this later.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 12:36:14)

Void · Yesterday 20:16:08

I was killing time somewhere, and used my phone to look some stuff up about Phobos and Demos.

The Claims I read were that Phobos is leaking about 3 grams of water a second, and that Deimos has ice on it's surface in some of it's craters.

Quite contrary to all I have read up until now. I will attempt to verify this on my computer with similar questions.

Query: "Water on Phobos?"

The claim on my phone is not supported:

Water is not confirmed on Phobos
The presence of water on Phobos is a subject of ongoing research. While spectral observations have ruled out the presence of water on its surface, there are indications that ice may be present within the sounding depth of the Soviet Phobos Mission due to its low albedo and proximity to the sun. Additionally, the loss of water from Phobos is a concern, as it may have been reaccreted debris from giant impacts on Mars, which could imply that it would have been depleted in volatiles. Overall, while water is not confirmed on Phobos, the possibility of past water content remains a topic of interest in planetary science.
University of Colorado Boulder

Query: "Water on Deimos?"

The claim is not supported but it appears that some suspicion of it exists

There is ongoing research and speculation about water on Deimos, the smaller moon of Mars.
Some studies suggest that Deimos may have had an original water content due to its formation from reaccreted debris from giant impacts on Mars.
1
The moon's surface features, such as craters, may indicate past liquid water, but the exact presence of water remains uncertain.
1
Water is considered essential for various applications, including life support and exploration, making Deimos a potential source for water.
2
Overall, while there is evidence supporting the possibility of water on Deimos, the definitive existence of water is still a topic of scientific investigation.

Different Query: "Ice inside Deimos?" It appears that when dealing with computers you need to be more specific!

A bit of support:

Copilot Search Branding
Images
Videos
Deimos, one of Mars' moons, is believed to have ice, primarily in the form of water ice, on its surface. However, the extent and distribution of this ice are not fully confirmed, and more research is needed to understand its composition better. Deimos is a small and rocky object with a very thin atmosphere, making it unlikely for water to exist on its surface.

My phone indicates that it is suspected that Deimos has ice inside of it which may feed the ice on the surface if there is any.

Query: "Ice inside Phobos?"

Some support:

Copilot Search Branding
Images
Videos
Believed to contain ice
Phobos, the innermost moon of Mars, is believed to contain ice. Recent observations suggest that Phobos may have a substantial reservoir of ice, although spectral observations have ruled out the presence of water on its surface. Additionally, Phobos is thought to have a low-density internal structure, which could indicate the presence of ice. However, the exact nature of its interior remains a subject of scientific inquiry and speculation.
Wikipedia
+1

My phone indicates that water vapor is detected at a rate of an estimated 3 grams per second.

Suggestions of hydrated minerals and Carbon are in this article: https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/ … 65/6660653
Quote:

ABSTRACT
Phobos and Deimos, the two satellites of Mars, were largely studied in the past using ground-based telescope and spacecraft data, although most of the data were obtained by opportunity observations performed by Mars dedicated orbiters. Despite the data available so far, the main composition of the two moons is not yet fully understood. The possible presence of hydrated minerals along with mafic minerals olivine and pyroxene seems to be the most plausible interpretation, but more investigations are needed. MIRS spectrometer on-board the future JAXA MMX sample return mission will help to unveil the open question on the composition of Phobos and Deimos. In this work, we review past spectroscopic observations of the Martian moons, both from ground observatories and spacecraft data set, aiming at better understanding the constraints in interpreting the Mars satellites composition and at identifying the best spectroscopic analogues. We also present new laboratory measurements on mineral mixing and meteorites to match the satellites spectral behaviour. New measurements were acquired at INAF-Astrophysical Observatory of Arcetri and IPAG laboratories at room conditions exploring different geometries and the results obtained set new constraints for future laboratory measurements. Our preliminary results confirm that the surface of Phobos and Deimos can be associated with samples characterized by a higher presence of dark components (e.g. amorphous carbon) or minerals produced by space weathering (e.g. Fe0 and FeS-bearing materials). Presence of dark component could also be totally responsible for the reduced hydrated band observed on the moons without invoking dehydration or OH-implantation on anhydrous surface.
methods: laboratory: solid state, space vehicles: instruments, techniques: imaging spectroscopy, planets and satellites: composition, planets and satellites: individual: Phobos, planets and satellites: surfaces
Issue Section: Article
Collection: RAS Journals, RAS Journals Old

I will risk a little bit and say that some reports indicate a less gifted set of moons as per desired substances. While excessive optimism should be avoided, we have to be aware of the "Verbal Idiot Savants".

They are a predator and if others of other talents are contained on a plantation, then those are slave class of farm animals as true function, unless the awaken to the deceptions that may be used to make a prison for the mind.

For instance I have been told that slaves in the US states that allowed it were told that if they escaped the Indians would kill them. That was not always true. Perhaps not very much true. I believe that American slavery was to some degree an import from old cultures that supported it that got taken over by "Verbal Idiot Savants" around the 13th century.

So, as we were told that our Moon was bone dry, (Whatever that means), we could be receiving insufficient or faulty information on the moons of Mars. But perhaps they will be deficient in Hydrogen and Carbon after all. We probably should find out.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 20:46:19)

Void · Yesterday 21:38:44

My focus on the two rubble piles Phobos and Deimos are important in my opinion because mirrors can also be made in orbit from the materials. Life support for humans and robots to create and operate those mirrors may be supported.

Although other objectives would be important, putting extra energy to the North Polar areas and Hellas areas in winter would make both more habitable.

Efforts to keep the north pole warmer in winter and Hellas cooler in summer may be able to tame global dust storms. IF that can be done then massive amounts of extra energy may be given to many locations on Mars with hope of less or no interfering dust storms.

An additional goal would be to evaporate all the dry ice on the surface of Mars to increase the air pressure. This would make both the North Polar areas (Not on the ice cap) and Hellas have better conditions for air braking spacecraft.

Methods to cool Hellas might be done by making many heats exchanger walls out of compressed Mars soil. Although solar panels may be mounted on these, the solar panels can have offsets that will allow air flow, and the solar panels can shade the compressed soil walls. The walls would also be placed as wind brakes to catch dust. They would be wind fences, in hopes of controlling dust storms.

The North polar ice body can be converted into a gigantic city of tunnels and vaults.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 21:45:37)

Void · Today 09:01:12

I leave it open as to what portion of people might live on Mars or in the orbits of Mars. Simply because I do not know accurately many variables such as the true nature of Mars, and the evolution of technical skills that humans and robots might create.

If the moons Phobos and Deimos were taken apart to make shelters and for other resource creation, at first bags of rocks might be the simple outer protective method. But later those might be processed into other things.

Mirrors might make it possible to grant Mars as much energy as what the Earth has naturally. I am tempted to think though that Martians may want to preserve ice cap cities. In that case they would moderate what they would do to Mars.

I am not entirely sure, but I expect that more moons will be created for Mars by capturing asteroids to the planet's orbits.

If a propulsion device were to use Oxygen as propellant, they in the imagination we could fly our Moon to Mars, perhaps?

https://theconversation.com/the-moons-t … ars-170013
Quote:

Copilot Search Branding
Images
Videos
Approximately 45%
The Moon's regolith contains approximately 45% oxygen, which is primarily trapped within minerals and rocks. While there is oxygen on the Moon, it is not in a gaseous form that can be easily accessed by humans. Instead, the oxygen is bound within the minerals present in the regolith, which is the layer of rock and fine dust covering the lunar surface.

I would consider that to be as silly as most other people. But two forms of propulsion I can think of do exist. I do not know how good they are as per efficiency.

1) Mass Driver that expels Oxygen Ice Cubes from the surface of the Moon.
2) Ceramic nozzles that weep Oxygen onto a electrostatic surface to make it cling. But then a heat source to make the molecules bounce off into space. Perhaps Lasers or Microwaves.

While I don't actually recommend it for our Moon, I could be done for asteroids that also may have a large Oxygen content in them.

Parking the asteroids into the orbit of a planet may be useful as to reduce the collision hazards (Presuming good works intended and achieved), and more resource into the orbit of a planet.

While it may be that eventually humans will "Hack" human biology and make children grow up "Correctly" according to Earth human bias, or it may be possible to build centrifuges of a very large size on the surface of Mars, it may be easiest to build orbital structures around planets from attainable materials such as asteroids. It will be much easier for humans that live in orbit of Venus, Earth/Moon, Mars to maintain a communion with each other's than for the humans that live on planetary surfaces to do so.

If I recall correctly from: https://www.youtube.com/@Anthrofuturism

Regolith might be about .5% magnetic Iron.

Then it is easiest to extract the Oxygen from the non-magnetic Iron content, and hardest to extract Oxygen from Calcium.

So processing a rubble pile or other asteroid might create Iron and also Sintered and/or glassy materials. from materials that are hard to reduce. In this case "Easy Oxygen" would be a major propellant. Upon arrival to Mars, perhaps the harder Oxygen to extract would be extracted.

If you have spacecraft spewing Oxygen as propellant some of that will likely join the atmosphere of Mars and so, then swell it up.

For instance, if you are thrusting your ship in a prograde direction by expelling Oxygen Ice Cubes, perhaps you could eject them at a retrograde speed so that they have zero orbital speed. Sunlight would quickly vaporize the Oxygen, but it might still drop down into the atmosphere of Mars if it is quick enough and is not swept away by the solar wind.

So, you could thicken the atmosphere of Mars while propelling spacecraft between orbital architectures.

The mass to energy ratio of mirrors is more favored the closer to the sun the mirror is, but perhaps even out into the outer asteroid belt mirrors may be sufficiently good as power supplies.

Way down the road, Venus might have methods to scoop up atmosphere to Orbit and to expel Oxygen and retain Nitrogen and Carbon. Then possibly Nitrogen could be brought to Mars. It sounds expensive, but if you have virtually unlimited robot labor and sunshine, is it necessarily unobtainable? I think in the distant future it will not be impossible.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Today 09:40:03)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2025-10-28 20:27:00

Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#2 2025-10-29 10:03:16

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#3 2025-10-30 03:25:11

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#4 2025-10-30 10:56:47

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#5 2025-10-31 10:19:56

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#6 2025-10-31 11:18:54

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#7 2025-10-31 14:17:07

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#8 2025-10-31 21:24:00

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#9 Yesterday 12:10:25

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#10 Yesterday 20:16:08

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#11 Yesterday 21:38:44

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

#12 Today 09:01:12

Re: Solar Reflections from Orbits to a Worlds Dark Spots

Board footer