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For SpaceNut re supplies for expeditions ... https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 26#p234526
There is no need to ship supplies with the crew if you know where you are going in space.
That is certainly the case for the major objects.
All your non-perishable supplies can be shipped by slow space barge well ahead of the expedition with live crew.
Your return fuel and supplies can be shipped ahead as well.
It seems to me the mission planning that's gone on so far has been limited in imagination, and probably limited by budget.
PS ... have you looked at the OpenFOAM update? I tested the animation on a Chromebook and it worked fine.
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talking about cargo in a not so cargo topic seems out there.
Perishable food items are foods that will spoil, decay, or become unsafe to eat if not kept refrigerated or frozen, including meats, poultry, seafood, dairy products, eggs, cooked leftovers, and most fresh fruits and vegetables, especially those that are cut, chopped, or lack a hard outer skin.
Meat, Poultry, and Fish
Raw meats: such as ground beef, steaks, lamb, and pork.
Poultry, like fresh chicken, turkey, and duck.
Fish and seafood, including fresh fish, shrimp, lobster, and all types of shellfish.
Deli meats, which are processed and sliced.
Dairy and Eggs
Milk, cream, and yogurt.
Cheese, including soft and hard varieties.
Butter .
Eggs .
Fruits and Vegetables
Most fresh fruits and vegetables are perishable, particularly those without a hard skin like berries, tomatoes, and lettuce.
Cut or chopped produce, as this increases the rate of decay.
Cooked Foods and Leftovers
Any cooked leftovers, such as stews, cooked rice, and prepared meals.
Prepared salads: and other dishes containing perishable ingredients.
Other Perishables
Drinks with live bacteria, like some juices.
Sauces and dips: (like hummus, pesto, and sour cream), once opened.
Some baked goods, especially those with dairy or cream.
most are short life and even when frozen will not meet the needs.
Non-perishable food items are shelf-stable and do not require refrigeration, including canned goods (fruits, vegetables, meats, soups, beans), dried goods (rice, pasta, oats, dried fruit, nuts, seeds, jerky, dried beans), shelf-stable milk and juices, and pantry staples like peanut butter, honey, cooking oil, sugar, and crackers.
Canned & Pouched Foods
Proteins: Tuna, salmon, chicken, and beans.
Vegetables: Corn, green beans, carrots, and other vegetables.
Fruits: Peaches, pineapple, applesauce, and other fruits.
Soups & Stews: Meat-based, vegetable-based, and other ready-to-eat options.
Dried & Grains
Grains: Rice, oats, pasta, and couscous.
Legumes: Dried beans, lentils, and peas.
Snacks: Nuts, seeds, dried fruits (raisins, apricots), trail mix, jerky, and granola bars.
Pantry Staples
Spreads: Peanut butter, jelly, and other nut/seed butters.
Sweeteners & Sauces: Honey, sugar, syrup, and jarred pasta sauces.
Oils: Vegetable oil and other cooking oils.
Baking Ingredients: Pancake mix and powdered milk.
Beverages: Shelf-stable powdered milk, bottled water, and juice boxes.
Other Shelf-Stable Items Crackers and melba toast, Ready-to-eat meals (like MREs), and Hard candies
try to eat while on the journey if you have no supplies after these go bad, or if you need extra oxygen if the equipment fails. You need the safety net with you along the way or it a fail that you do not recover from.
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For SpaceNut ....
Re https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 33#p234533
It was good to see you went beyond the perishable items (which are unsuitable for an extended journey except for the send off)
All the items in the nonperishable list can be shipped years ahead of time.
Humans have centuries of experience (let alone thousands of years migrating out of Africa) planning for long journeys.
There are libraries of books on the subject.
Every human starts out knowing nothing about anything.
This forum is a good place for members to increase collective knowledge.
I keep hoping we might be able to build topics that someone would both enjoy reading, and benefit from reading.
if you are interested in serious meal planning, the folks supplying the ISS are a pretty good model.
My guess is that a crew headed to Mars is going to have menu choices that look a lot like what the ISS crews experience today.
And... bottom line ... I'll bet you'll find that most if not all of the menu planning for the iSS features items that can be shipped by barge to the Moon or Mars or wherever folks are going.
I don't see the point in guessing what would be a good idea, when we have so much history to draw upon to make good decisions.
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The meal packaging for ISS to have fresh meals means vaccumn packaging, frozen food and these all have lots of mass in the packaging.
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For SpaceNut re #3879
plus: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 52#p234552
Thanks for the item about pre-positioning! That is exactly what I'm talking about with the space barge. You were worried (might not be the right word) about needing more ships to support a trip to Mars, and I pointed out you only need ships for cargo that needs pressurization, such as humans. Almost all other supplies can be shipped on barges and shipped ahead of time, needing less propellant.
Your point about needing mass to preserve food seems to me to be reasonable, but I don't see how that fact changes anything. We use mass to preserve food on Earth.
I saw a line in one of your posts about there being no refrigerator? That seems ridiculous to me. Space itself provides 4 degrees Kelvin. Your problem isn't cooling... it's keeping items from freezing. If you need to keep frozen food frozen, ship them in the shade.
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passage was about food within living spaces which is the ISS.
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For SpaceNut re new Space Barge topic...
The new barge topic should have a decent chance of growth, because the shipping industry in space is surely going to be making massive use of barges in coming decades and certainly centuries.
Most goods do not need special protection during transit, and the ones that do can be shipped in suitable containers. The main requirements for space barges are loading so they can be pushed by space tugs, and communications equipment so their location is known at all times.
I'm hoping our members will find images showing what space barges might look like.
Pre-positioning supplies for a Mars expedition is the first application that comes to mind.
Refrigeration is obviously not a problem in space, because objects in shade are subject to cooling to 4 degrees Kelvin. The concern there will be to provide warmth to keep items from becoming too cold (assuming that is a problem).
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