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#1 2025-09-17 10:43:46
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,634
New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
This one has to be big for Mars and for space in general:
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/bu … -illinois/
Quote:
Local News
Butter made from carbon tastes like the real thing, gets backing from Bill Gates
chicago
By Tara Molina
Updated on: August 6, 2025 / 10:42 PM CDT / CBS Chicago
OK, they do have some additives:
"It's really just our fat, some water, a little bit of lecithin as an emulsifier, and some natural flavor and color," Beiden-Charles said.
OK, Lecithin, may come from animal or plant products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecithin
Quote:
Lecithin (/ˈlɛsɪθɪn/ LESS-ith-in; from the Ancient Greek λέκιθος lékithos "yolk") is a generic term to designate any group of yellow-brownish fatty substances occurring in animal and plant tissues which are amphiphilic – they attract both water and fatty substances (and so are both hydrophilic and lipophilic), and are used for smoothing food textures, emulsifying, homogenizing liquid mixtures, and repelling sticking materials.[1][2]
I am going to speculate that you could grow mushrooms on the Fatty substances they create.
So, for Mars if you make and froze a bunch of that, you would have calories and could grow mushrooms, which along with other frozen foods would get you by in an emergency.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (2025-09-17 10:50:25)
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#2 2025-09-17 12:39:11
- tahanson43206
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members.
Index:
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#3 2025-09-18 09:49:25
- Void
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
I thought I might add this: https://undecidedmf.com/why-mushrooms-a … verything/
Quote:
Why Mushrooms are Starting to Replace Everything
Matt FerrellBy Matt Ferrell June 24, 2025
Mycelium seems to be able to digest any solid or even liquid hydrocarbon, and post #1 suggests the creation of a butter like hydrocarbon. But of course, flavor is not required. I did mention Mushrooms in post #1 after all.
One thing I have in mind for Mars, is that if you cut sandstone blocks to create an underground vault, you might make arches on the surface of the sandstone blocks, and you might seal the chinks between the stones using mycelium, if you fed the mycelium.
You would probably make the stone structure with the food in the chinks, and then pile regolith on top and then pressurize and heat the insides and add humidity.
I am planning to suggest how to make heat exchangers/storage by a similar process and plastics on the Moon.
Anyway, it seems that we will want to have the fungus among us when we go into space.
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Last edited by Void (2025-09-18 09:55:21)
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#4 2025-09-19 06:17:08
- Calliban
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- Registered: 2019-08-18
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
Void, that is an excellent find. On Mars, we won't be able to afford thousands of acres of pasture land for cattle. An energy efficient process for manufacturing fats in a compact facility will be essential for survival on Mars.
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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#5 2025-09-19 08:13:16
- Void
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
Calliban, Agreed! And Tony Seba and RethinkX indicate that much of our farmland on Earth will go back to wild or feral or (I say, managed feral).
Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic, will be vastly more efficient it seems.
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#6 2025-12-03 09:22:21
- Void
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
Robots that can pick fruit cause me to wonder about apple orchard/grasslands for land that goes feral.
A sort of savannah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_parkland
Image Quote: 
Managed for fruit trees and perhaps something like tall grass prairie.
So, this would be no till, and robots would keep it from becoming overrun with brush. So they could do weeding. Fruits from trees could be harvested by robots in bucket lifts or the equivalent.
The "Grass" could be harvested as well. Possibly some of it subjected to pyrolysis to produce hydrocarbons.
Berry Pickers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygazi3wzCnc
Quote:
Berry Picking Robots: Wish Farms is going all in on AI and automation
Tampa Bay 28
They said that 1 robot could do the work of 25 human workers.
A upper body of a humanoid robot on a hydraulic lift might do the fruit picking and the pruning. It could probably work all day and night as it would likely have infrared/low light vision.
While Apples might be a good start, other food bearing trees might be wanted.
A groomed savannah might be a better place to raise children than an inner city.
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Last edited by Void (2025-12-03 09:36:32)
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#7 2025-12-03 11:45:53
- Void
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
In relation to the previous post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WeNfzqz24U
Quote:
Farmers Couldn't Believe This Farm Robot Until They Saw How It Worked - This Is Farming in 2025
Inside Discovery
2.06K subscribers
It would be good if we could grow vegetable substitutes on Trees as wall: https://farmfoodfamily.com/vegetables-t … -on-trees/
So, rather than plowing land, perhaps some of these would be substitutes, if you have robots that can reach high into trees and pick the "Vegetables".
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Last edited by Void (2025-12-03 11:49:56)
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#8 2026-05-29 21:29:01
- tahanson43206
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
We have a number of topics that contain the word "food". I selected this one by Void in hopes it might blend into the flow.
I am looking for ingredients to add to recipes to increase fiber content, and asked Google Search for ideas. Google Search seems to have been enhanced a bit, so the conversation quoted below reminds me of Gemini, but I understand they are not the same thing.
You said: find plant pith as food ingredientPlant pith is utilized globally as a versatile food ingredient, functioning primarily as a starchy staple, a fibrous vegetable, or a functional food additive. While often discarded in modern Western kitchens, the spongy central tissue of specific plant stems and fruit linings is highly prized in various culinary traditions for its unique texture and nutritional benefits.Here are the most common plants where pith is harvested and used as a food ingredient:? Stem and Stalk PithsBanana Pith (Vazhaithandu): The inner core of the banana pseudo-stem is a popular ingredient in South Indian cuisine. It is finely chopped, soaked in buttermilk to prevent oxidation, and cooked into stews, stir-fries, or blended into healthy smoothies.Sago Palm Pith: The spongy center of the sago palm stem is a major carbohydrate staple in Melanesia and Micronesia. The raw pith is highly toxic and must undergo an intensive crushing and washing process to extract pure, edible starch, which is then used similarly to tapioca.Sugarcane Pith: The inner fibrous pith can be processed into a novel sugarcane powder. It is used as a sustainable, high-fiber food formulation ingredient to partially replace sugar while maintaining product texture.Sunflower Stalk Pith: While not typically cooked directly at home, industrial food science utilizes sunflower stalk pith due to its exceptionally high pectin content. It serves as a natural thickener and moisture-binding agent in commercial food manufacturing.? Fruit Linings (Albedo/Pith)Citrus Pith: The bitter, white spongy layer (technically the albedo) between the zest and the fruit flesh is packed with vitamin C, dietary fiber, and immune-boosting flavonoids like hesperidin. It can be scraped, dehydrated, and ground into powders for smoothies, or left intact when making candied citrus peels and marmalades.If you would like to source or cook with plant pith, let me know:Which specific plant pith are you trying to track down?Are you looking for step-by-step cooking recipes or industrial food-additive data?Do you prefer fresh, powdered, or dehydrated ingredients?15 sitesPolysaccharides from sunflower stalk pith: Chemical, structural and ...Overall characterization of the sunflower by-products has been conducted by Marechal and Rigal (1999) who found that stalk pith ha...ScienceDirect.comPith - WikipediaThe pith of the sago palm, although highly toxic to animals in its raw form, is an important human food source in Melanesia and Mi...WikipediaStudy on the production of powdered sugarcane pith as a novel ...Highlights * Sugarcane pith powder is a nutritious and safe ingredient with potential applications in food production. * Partial r...ScienceDirect.comShow allYou said: Are there commercial suppliers for products such as citrus fruit pith? The high fiber content is the most important feature, since other food ingredients provide vitamins and minerals, protein and starch.Yes, there are major commercial suppliers for citrus fruit pith, though in the commercial food industry, this ingredient is officially manufactured and sold under the name "Citrus Fiber" or "Citrus Flour".Because you are prioritizing high fiber content over vitamins and starches, commercial citrus fiber is ideal. It is made by upcycling the washed, dried, and mechanically ground albedo (pith) and peel leftovers from the citrus juicing industry. This creates a clean-label, white-to-cream powder that consists of an optimal mix of soluble fiber (like pectin) and insoluble fiber (cellulose and hemicellulose).? Major Commercial and Wholesale SuppliersIf you are sourcing this ingredient for food formulation, product development, or bulk production, you can acquire it through these primary industrial ingredient suppliers:Fiberstar, Inc. (Product: Citri-Fi®): This is the industry gold standard for upcycled citrus fiber. Fiberstar uses a patented physical process (no chemicals) to open up the fiber cells, giving it an incredibly high surface area. It is available in bulk and even offers Fiberstar USDA Certified Organic Citrus Fiber options.Ingredion (Product: FIBERTEX® CF): A massive global ingredient distributor that supplies Ingredion FIBERTEX® Citrus Fibers. Their product is heavily utilized in commercial baking, meat alternatives, and sauces to improve texture and shelf-life while boosting fiber.Gillco Ingredients: A premier distributor that partners with top manufacturers to supply clean-label Gillco Ingredients Citrus Fiber in bulk quantities to food processors.Silvateam: An international business that manufactures clean-label Silvateam Citrus Fiber optimized for water-binding and gelling capabilities in food formulations.Rainforest Supply: If you need wholesale quantities but aren't ready for massive industrial truckloads, you can purchase bulk Rainforest Supply Citrus Fiber Powder, which they specifically market as a neutral filler for its high fiber density.? Functional Benefits of Citrus Pith FiberWhen formulating with commercial citrus fiber, it behaves differently than standard starches or proteins:Extreme Water-Holding Capacity: Because the native pectin structure is kept intact, it can hold up to 10–12 times its weight in water, which prevents food from drying out.Natural Emulsification: It binds water and oil together smoothly, allowing you to replace synthetic chemical stabilizers or E-number emulsifiers on your ingredient label.Neutral Flavor and Color: Unlike whole orange peel powder (which is yellow, strong, and bitter), commercial citrus fiber is heavily washed to remove volatile oils, leaving a neutral filler that won't compromise your food’s flavor profile.Are you looking to purchase a small amount for R&D / prototyping, or do you need pallet-level commercial volumes? I can help you find specific distributor contact channels based on your production scale.12 sites Clean label citrus fiber producer | Food ingredients - SilvateamWhat it is made of. Citrus fiber is a dietary fiber derived from the indigestible part of citrus fruit which mostly passes through...www.silvateam.comCitrus Fiber | Gillco IngredientsCitrus fiber provides multiple functionalities that can improve product texture, nutrition, costs, and labeling. This fiber is cre...Gillco IngredientsCitrus Fiber Powder - Rainforest SupplyExplorer's Recommendation. Citrus fiber powder is derived from the pith of citrus fruits such as oranges, lemons, and grapefruit. ...Rainforest SupplyShow allYou said: Thank you for your assistance with this inquiry. I appreciate your focus on the fiber value while showing additional values for a variety of products, and for listing suppliers. I'll save your report for study. No further suggestions are needed at this time.You are very welcome! I am glad the breakdown of citrus fiber and the supplier list will be useful for your study. It sounds like you have a solid foundation for your research.Whenever you are ready to take the next steps with your formulation or sourcing, feel free to reach back out. Good luck with your project!
The nice formatting I am used to when working with Gemini was NOT provided by this entity.
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#9 Today 00:18:06
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
I am doing a transplant to this topic of some related materials. I will be challenging food morality here as well.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 24#p240024
Quote:
This could also go under life support but here is gives the idea that if you have a power source Nuclear & Solar, and water ice and Mars Atmosphere and a suitable shelter, bulk food will not be a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LjyzmRcQPk
Quote:The company Making Meat Obsolete Using Solar Panels & Thin Air
The Electric VikingThis along with Acetate and Oxygen to grow plants in low light (It is hoped), and the fact that you could likely grow mushrooms on the yellow goop above, indicates that food is not going to be such a problem.
The goop includes proteins with a good balance and also Vitamin B12,
So, you could also likely have Chickens and Chicken eggs.
And if you are fussy about things you could avoid killing things with faces, or that are multicellular, to create your food.
That might bring up a level in the eyes of some possible aliens that we might eventually have contact with.
Ending Pending
From Calliban: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 31#p240031
Quote:
Calliban
Member
From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 4,333
Impressive. This company is able to convert sunlight, CO2 and water, into 78% pure bioavailable protein. The process is healthier than any natural source and far more efficient. Turning this into things that people actually want to eat is the next big challenge.In some ways, Mars with its cold almost pure CO2 atmosphere is almost perfect for electro-agriculture. On Earth, CO2 is a trace gas that is difficult and energy intensive to extract from air. On Mars, it is the bulk of the atmosphere. The low temperature makes compression relatively easy. Compressing it to liquid requires about 70wH/kg. The planet is further from the sun than Earth, but is mostly sunny. And nuclear reactors would work as well there as they do on Earth. Maybe food is something that a future Mars colony can profitably export.
Last edited by Calliban (2026-07-01 04:20:41)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
Here are some additional reference materials: https://nelhydrogen.com/articles/video/ … ered-food/
And for the Copilot:
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Finnish Startup’s Hydrogen-Based Synthetic Food
A Finnish foodtech company, Solar Foods, has developed a groundbreaking synthetic protein called Solein, produced entirely from hydrogen and carbon dioxide using advanced biotechnology Nel Hydrogen+1.How It Works
Solar Foods uses hydrogen generated by water electrolysis (powered by renewable electricity) to feed hydrogen-oxidizing bacteria (HOB) in a bioreactor. These microbes perform chemosynthesis—using chemical energy from hydrogen and CO₂ to produce protein—instead of relying on sunlight or sugar-based feedstocks Nel Hydrogen+1. The result is a high-protein powder with a nutrition profile similar to dried meat, containing all essential amino acids, dietary fiber, and vitamins Interesting Engineering.Sustainability Advantages
No agriculture required: Unlike traditional livestock or plant-based proteins, Solein production does not need crops, land, or water-intensive farming Nel Hydrogen+1.Low resource use: The process uses minimal natural resources and can be run in controlled environments, making it climate-independent Nel Hydrogen.
Carbon-negative potential: By capturing CO₂ from industrial sources and converting it into protein, the method can help reduce greenhouse gas emissions AFN.
Energy efficiency: Hydrogen from electrolysis is a clean energy carrier, enabling the process to be powered by renewable electricity Nel Hydrogen.
Applications
Solein can be incorporated into a wide range of food products—meat analogs, dairy alternatives, snacks, and more. It has already been used in products like ice cream and other ready-to-eat items Interesting Engineering.Related Projects
Solar Foods is also leading the HYDROCOW project, aiming to produce whey protein from CO₂ and hydrogen instead of sugar-based microbes. This would create a net-zero carbon dairy protein platform, decoupling milk protein production from agricultural land AFN.Commercialization
Solar Foods has built its first production facility, Factory 01, in Vantaa, Finland, to scale Solein production Interesting Engineering. The company is positioning Solein as a scalable, sustainable alternative to traditional protein sources, with potential to address both food security and climate change challenges.In short: Solar Foods’ hydrogen-powered Solein represents a fusion of ancient microbial biotechnology and modern clean energy, offering a sustainable, climate-friendly path to protein production Nel Hydrogen+2.
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Last edited by Void (Today 00:28:20)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#10 Today 00:29:15
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
Using post #9 as reference materials for this post.
Quote:
Applications
Solein can be incorporated into a wide range of food products—meat analogs, dairy alternatives, snacks, and more. It has already been used in products like ice cream and other ready-to-eat items Interesting Engineering.Related Projects
Solar Foods is also leading the HYDROCOW project, aiming to produce whey protein from CO₂ and hydrogen instead of sugar-based microbes. This would create a net-zero carbon dairy protein platform, decoupling milk protein production from agricultural land AFN.
Now the above suggest to me that Chickens could be fed with these materials. For Eggs or for Meat. So, perhaps not considered moral by Vegans or Vegetarians.
Quote:
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Yes, many vegetarians can eat eggs, but it depends on the type of vegetarian diet and personal or religious choices.
Types of Vegetarian Diets and Egg Consumption
Ovo-vegetarians: Eat eggs but avoid meat, poultry, fish, and dairy products
vegetarian-nation.com
vegetarian-nation.com
+1
.
Lacto-vegetarians: Consume dairy but avoid eggs and all forms of meat
vegetarian-nation.com
vegetarian-nation.com
+1
.
Lacto-ovo vegetarians: Eat both eggs and dairy while avoiding meat, poultry, and fish; this is the most common type of vegetarian diet
vegetarian-nation.com
vegetarian-nation.com
+1
.
Vegans: Avoid all animal products, including eggs, dairy, and honey
vegetarian-nation.com
vegetarian-nation.com
+1
.
Ethical and Religious Considerations
Eggs are generally considered vegetarian because they are not animal flesh. Most commercially sold eggs are unfertilized and will not develop into chicks, which makes them acceptable for many vegetarians
Healthline
Healthline
+1
. However, some vegetarians avoid eggs due to ethical concerns about animal welfare or religious beliefs, such as in certain Hindu or Jain practices
Healthline
Healthline
+1
.Nutritional Benefits of Eggs for Vegetarians
Eggs are a rich source of high-quality protein, essential amino acids, vitamins (including B12, D, and riboflavin), minerals, and omega-3 fatty acids
Australian Eggs
Australian Eggs
+1
. They can help vegetarians meet nutritional needs that might otherwise be low in a plant-based diet, such as vitamin B12, iron, and choline
Healthline
Healthline
+1
.Summary
Vegetarians who eat eggs are still considered vegetarians but are specifically called ovo-vegetarians or lacto-ovo vegetarians, depending on whether they also consume dairy
Healthline
Healthline
+1
. The decision to include eggs often depends on personal ethics, religious beliefs, and nutritional considerations. Eggs can serve as a valuable protein source and provide essential nutrients that complement a vegetarian diet
Australian Eggs
Australian Eggs
+1
.
Quote:
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Vegans do not eat eggs because they are animal products, and consuming them conflicts with the ethical principles of veganism.
Why Eggs Are Not Vegan
Veganism is centered on avoiding harm to animals and excluding all animal-derived products from the diet, clothing, and other aspects of life
Vegan Food & Living
Vegan Food & Living
+1
. Eggs come from chickens, and even if they are unfertilized, their collection and consumption involve human intervention and often contribute to the exploitation of hens
Healthline
Healthline
+1
. In commercial egg production, hens are frequently confined in small cages, have their beaks clipped, and are subjected to practices like induced molting to increase egg production
Healthline
Healthline
+1
. Male chicks are often culled shortly after hatching because they cannot lay eggs, which raises further ethical concerns
Vegan Food & Living
Vegan Food & Living
.Ethical and Environmental Considerations
Vegans avoid eggs not only for animal welfare reasons but also due to environmental impacts. Animal agriculture, including egg production, contributes significantly to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and resource use
thriveonvegan.com
thriveonvegan.com
. Even small-scale or “ethical” egg farming may still involve some level of exploitation, as hens are ultimately used for human benefit and may be slaughtered when their egg production declines
howstuffworks.com
howstuffworks.com
.Exceptions and Alternatives
Some individuals identify as “veggans,” a term for people who follow a vegan diet but occasionally consume eggs from backyard or ethically treated hens
thriveonvegan.com
thriveonvegan.com
+1
. However, this is not considered true veganism; it is more accurately described as ovo-vegetarianism
Healthline
Healthline
+1
. For those seeking egg substitutes, there are numerous plant-based alternatives, such as:JUST Egg: A liquid egg alternative made from mung beans, suitable for scrambling.
Bob’s Red Mill Egg Replacer: A powdered substitute for baking.
Follow Your Heart VeganEgg: Powdered egg alternative for cooking and baking.
Aquafaba: The liquid from chickpeas, which can mimic egg whites in recipes
thriveonvegan.com
thriveonvegan.com
.
Conclusion
In summary, eggs are not considered vegan because they are derived from animals and their production typically involves harm or exploitation. While some people may choose to consume eggs under specific ethical circumstances, this falls outside the standard definition of veganism. Plant-based alternatives provide a way to enjoy the culinary functions of eggs without compromising vegan principles
Healthline
Healthline
+2
.
I am not a vegan or a vegetarian, at this time, but with expanded food products it may become easier and more practical to at least become the sort of vegetarian that will eat eggs and dairy products. Actually, the dairy products may already be non-animal produced.
But that gets down to interpretation of Morals. Is a Blue Whale more moral than a Killer Whale?
Quote:
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Blue whales primarily eat krill, tiny shrimp-like crustaceans, consuming several tons daily to sustain their enormous size.
Primary Diet
Blue whales feed almost exclusively on krill, small marine crustaceans that typically measure 1–2 centimeters long, though some species can grow up to 15 centimeters
Whale Facts
Whale Facts
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. Krill form the vast majority of a blue whale’s diet because they are abundant, nutritious, and energy-rich, providing the protein and fats necessary for the whale’s massive body
iere.org
iere.org
. In certain nutrient-rich areas, such as Antarctic waters, krill swarms can be so dense that they appear to change the color of the water
Whale Facts
Whale Facts
+1
.Feeding Behavior
Blue whales are filter feeders. They use a technique called lunge feeding, where they accelerate toward a dense patch of krill with their mouths wide open, engulfing enormous volumes of water and prey
Natural History Museum
Natural History Museum
+1
. Their expandable throat pleats allow them to take in more food than their own body weight. The water is then expelled through baleen plates, which act like a comb to trap the krill inside while letting water pass through
Natural History Museum
Natural History Museum
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. This method allows them to consume millions of krill in a single feeding session.Quantity Consumed
An adult blue whale can eat up to four tons (approximately 8,000 pounds) of krill per day during peak feeding season, which can amount to tens of millions of individual krill
Natural History Museum
Natural History Museum
+2
. This massive intake is necessary to maintain their energy needs, especially given their size, which can exceed 100 feet in length and 150 tons in weight
Whale Facts
Whale Facts
+1
.Diet of Calves
Blue whale calves rely entirely on their mother’s milk for the first 6–18 months of life, consuming up to 150 gallons per day
Whale Facts
Whale Facts
+1
. The milk is extremely rich in fat, allowing the calf to grow rapidly until it can transition to a krill-based diet.Occasional Food Items
While krill dominate their diet, blue whales may occasionally ingest small fish, squid, or copepods that are present in or near krill swarms
Whale Facts
Whale Facts
+1
. However, these items make up a very small portion of their overall diet.Ecological Role
By feeding on krill, blue whales play a crucial role in maintaining the balance of marine ecosystems, preventing overpopulation of krill and supporting the oceanic food web
iere.org
iere.org
. Their feeding behavior also helps redistribute nutrients throughout the water column, benefiting other marine life.
So, they both eat animals. However, if killer whales eat slappy the seal and even torment it first, we tend to dislike it more than if a Blue Whale eats Krill.
OK, so if you eat plants, it seems that plants don't like being eaten.
Quote:
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Plants do not feel pain in the way animals do, but they can sense damage and respond through complex chemical and electrical signaling.
Understanding Plant Responses
Plants lack nerves, pain receptors, and a brain, which are essential for experiencing pain as animals do, so they cannot consciously feel pain or suffering
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
+1
. However, plants are highly sensitive to their environment and can detect mechanical damage, herbivory, drought, and other stressors. They respond using chemical signals, hormones, and electrical impulses to coordinate defense mechanisms and communicate with neighboring plants
sciencenewstoday.org
sciencenewstoday.org
+2
.Plant Signaling and Defense
When a plant is damaged, it can produce defensive chemicals to deter herbivores, attract beneficial insects, or warn nearby plants of danger
howstuffworks.com
howstuffworks.com
+1
. For example, some plants release compounds that make their leaves less palatable or emit signals that trigger chemical defenses in surrounding plants. Certain species, like the Venus flytrap or Mimosa pudica, exhibit rapid movements in response to touch, demonstrating a form of sensory perception
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
+1
.Ultrasonic Distress Signals
Recent research has shown that plants such as tomatoes and tobacco can emit ultrasonic sounds when stressed, such as during drought or physical damage. These sounds may serve as a form of communication to alert other plants or organisms, but they do not indicate conscious pain
Science Times
Science Times
. The intensity and frequency of these signals vary depending on the type of stress, suggesting a sophisticated response system rather than a subjective experience of pain.Key Takeaways
Plants react to stimuli and can "learn" from repeated exposure, adjusting their responses over time
sciencenewstoday.org
sciencenewstoday.org
.
Their responses are mechanical and chemical, not conscious or emotional.
While plants can communicate distress and defend themselves, this is not equivalent to feeling pain as humans or animals do
Encyclopedia Britannica
Encyclopedia Britannica
+1
.
In summary, plants are remarkable in their ability to sense and respond to their environment, but they do not experience pain or suffering in the way animals with nervous systems do. Their reactions are adaptive survival mechanisms rather than conscious experiences.
So, it seems that plants may not feel pain or suffering.
What about microbes? Do they form collective minds? If we eat Cheese or Yogurt, do we make a thing unhappy?
Well, some who do not eat meat, do so for their own health as well, so it is not all about the morality of the suffering of other things.
*Now I am going to get rather weird in my thinking.
People who don't eat chicken for health reasons won't have a use for "Terminator Chickens". Those who will eat eggs may, and those who eat meat may be concerned about the morality of what I will describe.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2026/0 … container/
Quote:
Biotechnology and health
Colossal Biosciences is growing chickens in a 3D-printed artificial eggshell
In an early step towards artificial wombs, a biotech company claims it’s developed a “fully artificial” chicken egg.By Antonio Regaladoarchive page
May 19, 2026
Can you get just female sperm cells for Chickens?
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Cloning Sperm Cells: Methods and Applications
Cloning sperm cells is not the same as cloning an entire organism, but it can refer to creating genetically identical sperm through advanced reproductive technologies. Two main approaches are relevant here:1. Double Sperm Cloning (DSC)
Double sperm cloning is a laboratory technique used in mammalian genetic engineering and stem cell research to produce androgenetic diploid embryos. In DSC, two capacitated sperm cells (either XY or XX, sorted by flow cytometry) are injected into a denucleated oocyte via intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI). The oocyte naturally activates the sperm, and the reconstructed embryo can develop into embryonic stem cells (ESCs) pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov+1.Advantages of DSC
Avoids some issues seen in somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT) and induced pluripotent stem cell (iPSC) methods, such as mitochondrial DNA interference, telomere shortening, and epigenetic memory pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.
Oocyte activation is natural, not artificial, which may improve developmental potential.
Process is relatively simple and standardized, with potential for ethical and immunological matching advantages.
Challenges
Imprinted genes, epigenetic regulation, X chromosome inactivation, and dosage compensation remain technical hurdles pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.
In mice, DSC-ESCs have shown good differentiation ability, but human applications are still experimental.
2. In Vitro Gametogenesis (IVG)
IVG is a related but broader concept: making sperm or eggs from stem cells in the lab. For sperm, researchers can reprogram adult cells (e.g., skin cells) into induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs), then differentiate them into sperm-like cells The Niche. This approach could bypass the need for donor sperm in assisted reproduction, but it is still largely experimental in humans.Applications
Regenerative medicine: Generating patient-matched stem cells for disease modeling and cell therapy.
Animal breeding: Producing genetically identical livestock or pets.
Assisted reproduction: Potential to create gametes from stem cells for IVF, though human use is not yet approved.
Key takeaway
Cloning sperm cells can be achieved through targeted techniques like DSC or via IVG, both of which aim to produce genetically identical sperm for research or reproductive purposes. While DSC is a direct sperm-based cloning method, IVG offers a more flexible route from stem cells. Both are promising but face scientific and ethical considerations before widespread human use.
This could be important, to only grow female chickens. As of today, I believe that most male chicks are sorted out and killed in some sort of grinder machine. Not particularly moral, but efficient and practical, I expect.
So, if people have morals of ethics this could be a case of cruelty that might be eliminated in the future:
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Ethical and Humane Disposal of Excess Male Chicks
In the egg-laying industry, male chicks from egg breeds are typically culled shortly after hatching because they do not lay eggs and are not bred for meat. This practice raises significant animal welfare concerns, leading to the development of alternative methods and regulations cychicken.com+1.Current Industry Practices
Culling methods: In the U.S., the most common method is maceration (instantly crushing chicks in a high-speed grinder) or gassing with carbon dioxide Wikipedia+1. While maceration is considered instantaneous, it is still controversial due to the scale of the process.Scale: Billions of male chicks are culled annually worldwide RSPCA Knowledgebase.
Ethical and Humane Alternatives
In-ovo sexing – Technologies that determine the sex of the chick before hatching, allowing only females to be raised for eggs cychicken.com+1.Dual-purpose breeds – Raising male chicks in breeds suitable for both eggs and meat (e.g., Plymouth Rock) cychicken.com.
Meat production – Some farms raise male chicks for meat, though this is less common due to breed inefficiency cychicken.com.
Adoption programs – Sanctuaries and farms that rehome male chicks as pets or for small-scale farming cychicken.com.
Rendering or composting – Using remains for pet food, fertilizer, or other industrial purposes cychicken.com.
Regulatory and Industry Trends
Bans and restrictions: Germany and France banned all chick culling from 2022; Italy plans to ban it by 2026 Wikipedia.Slow adoption: In-ovo sexing and alternative markets are still emerging due to cost and infrastructure changes cychicken.com.
Consumer demand: Growing awareness is pushing egg producers toward more ethical practices cychicken.com+1.
Local Disposal Guidance
If you are a small-scale breeder or hobbyist, humane disposal can be arranged through:Local animal control or SPCA – They can find adoptive homes or dispose of chicks humanely University of Illinois Extension.
Brooding facilities – If you have the space and experience, you can raise chicks for meat or other uses University of Illinois Extension.
Key takeaway: The most ethical approach is to prevent culling through in-ovo sexing or to rehome male chicks in suitable environments. For large-scale egg production, regulatory changes and technological adoption are key to eliminating the practice.
Actually, a quick death for male chicks might be kinder than raising the females for eggs or meat.
But that implies that the female chicks/chickens have a consciousness and may suffer more during their lives.
*For this next part, I really am examining the concept of morality in this, I am not sure what is more moral, not yet.
Could a type of Chicken be created that has a minimal brain, and so I presume minimal consciousness? A more greatly stupid chicken?
Then could you put substitute AI brains in them?
During the time that their biological systems were functional then they might direct the chickens to do all the best things for the growth of the chicken for meat or for the laying of eggs.
Then when it was time for the Chicken to be harvested, The AI brain could be wirelessly ordered to shut down the heart and to shut itself off.
The AI brains would be reusable.
So, if the AI mind of a creature is reusable/rebootable, is that a form of prolonged life? Is it a moral thing to do?
Alternatives to create meat-like products are to have quivering meat growing in a vat, or to 3D print meat substitutes from cell cultures.
Perhaps it is best to do the Non-Terminator-Chicken.
Could humans eventually have clones of their ancestors AI brain implants, that would remember as a sort of library a collection of information, as an inheritcance?
Well, I just wanted to take this to an extreme in investigate relative morality.
I suppose it will depend on wealth, and emerging technology.
I am guessing that only sadists would enjoy putting male chicks into a grinder. But it is done as it is currently required by the need to grow eggs and meat.
Down the road we might be able to afford expanded morals about food production.
>>>>>>>>>>
As it may be recalled this agricultural path would have Hydrogen and CO2 at it's base.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/n … s-AA25tLVU
Quote:
Natural hydrogen resources in Canada's ancient rocks
1w
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Curated by AI
I think it may be quite possible that Mars may have a underground Hydrogen resource in existence. And of course it has a largely CO2 atmosphere. That implies a big food resource on Mars.
>>>>>>>>>>
I think I recall that NASA thinks that 1/3 of an astronaut's diet could be mushrooms.
I think you could grow Mushrooms on some of the products mentioned in this post and the just previous post.
But of course, then you are eating reproductive organs of Mycelium.
Apples are reproductive organs also.
That is about it for this expansion of the topic.
Ending Pending 
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#11 Today 05:59:10
- tahanson43206
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Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
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#12 Today 09:28:05
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,634
Re: New Food Sources. Precision Fermentation, Cellular, Synthetic
RethinkX and Tony Seba are good sources for the plans in this topic.
https://www.rethinkx.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@RethinkX
https://www.youtube.com/tonyseba/videos
In the process of changing agriculture, abandoned lands, might be repopulated with solar panels and mini-fruit trees.
Examples: Quote:
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Mini apple trees are compact, space-saving fruit trees that produce full-sized apples, ideal for small gardens, patios, or container growing.
Overview
Mini apple trees, often grown on M27 rootstock, typically reach 6 to 8 feet in height, making them the most dwarfing option available and perfect for limited spaces or container gardening
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
. They are propagated through grafting, which ensures the tree is a clone of the parent and produces consistent fruit
Gardener's Path
Gardener's Path
. Unlike standard apple trees, mini varieties are easier to prune, harvest, and manage due to their smaller size
rootstofruitsnursery.com
rootstofruitsnursery.com
.Varieties
There is a wide range of mini apple tree varieties, offering different flavors, colors, and harvest times:Malus domestica 'Akane' – Crisp, firm, and fully-flavored red apple
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Malus domestica 'Bardsey' – Hardy variety from Bardsey Island, Wales
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Malus domestica 'Cherry Cox' – Medium-size, deep red apple with consistent production
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Malus domestica 'Dayton' – Sweet-tart, juicy, and flavorful red apple
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Malus domestica 'Fred Gravenstein' – Early-ripening, complex-flavored apple
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Malus domestica 'Greensleeves' – Large yellow apple, popular with organic growers
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Self-pollinating mini apple trees, such as Grimes Golden and Starkspur Red Rome Beauty, are ideal for small spaces because they can produce fruit without needing another tree nearby, though a nearby crabapple can boost yields
brightlanegardens.com
brightlanegardens.com
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Benefits
Space-Saving: Perfect for small yards, patios, or balconies
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Early Fruit Production: Mini trees bear fruit sooner than standard trees
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Manageable Care: Easier to prune, treat, and harvest
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Aesthetic Appeal: Adds charm with compact size and attractive blossoms
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
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Urban Gardening Friendly: Suitable for container growing and limited-space gardens
raintreenursery.com
raintreenursery.com
+1
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Growing Tips
Pollination: Most apple trees require another apple or crabapple tree nearby for cross-pollination, except self-pollinating varieties
Gardener's Path
Gardener's Path
+1
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Chill Hours: Ensure the variety matches your local climate’s chill hours (hours between 32°F and 45°F) for proper fruiting
Gardener's Path
Gardener's Path
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Staking: Mini trees often need staking to support their smaller root systems and prevent toppling under fruit load
Gardener's Path
Gardener's Path
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Sunlight and Soil: Plant in well-drained soil with full sun exposure for optimal growth and fruit production
brightlanegardens.com
brightlanegardens.com
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Mini apple trees are an excellent choice for gardeners who want the joy of homegrown apples without the space requirements of standard trees, offering both practicality and beauty in small-scale gardening.
Robot labor could maintain both the panels and the fruit trees. If the trees are deciduous, they may cool the Earth. Also, the growth of the trees themselves may capture Carbon.
A further consideration would be to create associated habitations, to promote human reproduction. To provide a psychological fit situation for people to want to have children. Also to provide a good environment for children.
This is a good plan, as we will be wanting people to immigrate to other worlds and to populate this world.
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Last edited by Void (Today 09:40:04)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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