Bipolar Mars Terraform Plan

Void · 2025-08-05 12:26:57

Conversations where I intruded on another members topic, prompt me to start this topic:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 84#p233184
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 12#p233212
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 30#p233230
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 32#p233232
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 34#p233234
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 49#p233249
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 85#p233285

OK, now I can leave PhotonBytes alone in his topic. I am not against his concepts, but my efforts to supplement them has apparently been viewed more as harassment rather than to be assistive.

So, as it is Mars has two basic Hemispheres. And in general the South is highlands, and the North is lowlands. Exceptions are the Hellas Depression and perhaps the large shield Volcanos.

Any method of heating will tend to more heat the Northern Lowlands (and also the Hellas Depression) and less so in the Southern Highlands, and the other alpine areas.

So, perhaps we could run with this and develop the two hemispheres in different ways.

Pause............

I would think to melt and evaporate the Northern Polar Ice Cap, and allow the Southern Polar Ice Cap to actually grow.

The Northern Pole could be converted to "Farmland". The Southern Pole to a massive city in Ice.

Other targets are to evaporate any solid CO2 that can be evaporated into the atmosphere, by various terraform methods.

When I say "Farmlands", I suppose it would be wonderful to have open air agriculture. But it might not be possible to warm the North Pole that much. So, I would add the possibility to use inflatable and other domes, and also lakes, some perhaps ice covered, or dome covered.

So, a farming period might be 1/3 of the Martian year, the sunniest part of the year.

There should be seasonal snowfalls to irrigate this area.

As for the Southern Cap, as it expands, I anticipate hollowing it out with vaults and tunnels where a robot community could work at a temperature of perhaps -10 Degrees C. In the process of hollowing out this ice cap water could be melted and flowed though a system of rivers and canals and tunnels to irrigate the Hellas Depression. During the Southern summer then the Hellas Depression irrigation would donate snowfalls to the Northern Pole. During the Northern summer the farmland would donate water to the Southern Ice cap so that it could expand.

In this process, the footprint of the Southern Ice Cap, would be hollowed out somewhat but the water from the vaults and tunnels would eventually come back as snow and frost to expand the footprint of the Southern Ice Cap.

I see this as being the best way to handle Mars.

External energy from solar power in orbits could be a component of how all of this can work.

Ending Pending

Rivers flowing down hill on Mars would be self-heating, and would also conserve heat with a layer of ice.

When water flows in rivers, the motion of the water in part translates to molecular vibrations, so then heat.

And of course Hydroelectric power could be a useful byproduct of this flow.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-05 12:57:16)

Void · 2025-08-05 18:55:16

I do not regard this as a contest. Rather just a page in a notebook of possibilities for Mars.

My interest in the habitation of a polar ice cap is in part because of old Sci-Fi, and that some possible Mars futures might favor it. I will include some old drawings related to such notions:

In the above drawing heat can be pulled out of B and inserted to A perhaps by a heat pump.
But if heat buildup is too much then Hot water can be vented to atmosphere, to dispose of the heat.
This process would also provide more void space in the ice mass.

The south polar ice cap might be converted to a vast interconnected set of pressurized spaces where robots and humans could work.

As the coldest spot over time would be the South Pole, you could expect the vented water to come back as more frost and snow, unless it is split into Hydrogen and Oxygen by UV light. In that case then you get more Oxygen retained in the atmosphere.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-05 19:09:29)

Void · 2025-08-06 09:35:26

I have some unfinished business in this topic which I intend to address.

A further technique for regulating the climate of Mars and Earth could be Albedo alterations. Putting dust on the ice caps has been suggested by others in the past, and I have suggested mobile solar robots.

Dust application would possibly require repeats and would not generate power. Extremely mobile robots might be more expensive per resources than is necessary. I think the Germans came up with something, the bifacial solar panel.

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement … ar-panels/
Quote:

Everything You Need To Know About Bifacial Solar Panels
Audited & Verified: Aug 1, 2024, 12:15am

Image Quote:

In the event of a danger of a glaciated planet, which happened previously on Earth and is sort of true for Mars now, these solar panels could be the solution that could modify Albedo, and generate electric power.

There could be a danger of a "Snowball" Mars, if too much water was lifted from the ice masses and allowed to refreeze onto the surface of Mars.

Currently on Mars Seasonal CO2 frost can damage equipment such as horizontal solar panels. Vertical Bifacial panels might survive the event better or be made so that they could survive the event.

Here is a case of damage on Mars from CO2 solid condensates: https://science.nasa.gov/resource/image … collapsed/
Quote:

Image from Mars Orbit Indicates Solar Panels on Phoneix Lander may have Collapsed

Quote:

Phoenix landed at 68 degrees north latitude, an area where the atmosphere and surface get so cold in winter that carbon dioxide forms a frost on the surface as much as several decimeters (one or more feet) thick. This frost, also known as dry ice, blankets the entire northern landscape each Martian winter, including any spacecraft that might be on the surface. The solar arrays on Phoenix were not designed to withstand significant loads of carbon dioxide frost, so scientists believe the western panel has collapsed.

So, for Earth, one thing we might do, if Earth entered an ice age would be to alter the albedo of the existing and forming ice masses at high latitudes and perhaps high altitudes.

Due to the Milenkovich Cycles, it is possible that a place like Sweden could develop summers so cold that ice and snow precipitation would not fully melt in the summer. Then ice and snow could build up. Then that buildup would reflect sunlight into space that would otherwise be absorbed by the surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

Where I have expressed a preference to have an expanding ice cap on the South Pole of Mars and a retreating ice cap on the North Pole of Mars, this tool could be helpful to prevent the emergence of a "Snowball Mars".

Some people think that Mars has been "Snowball" at times: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/04/snowball-mars/

The use of partially mobile Bifacial Vertical Solar Panels on Mars, may allow an alteration of the Albedo of the exposed ice of Mars, and serve as a useful tool to terraform Mars.

If they could be made rugged enough to survive Martian winters, then periodically robotic systems might elevate or move downward the panels depending on the accumulation or losses of ice on the surface.

These panels also might double as heat exchangers to get rid of excess heat inside of an ice mass as per the shelters I have suggested previously.

Quote from previous post:

In the above drawing heat can be pulled out of B and inserted to A perhaps by a heat pump.
But if heat buildup is too much then Hot water can be vented to atmosphere, to dispose of the heat.
This process would also provide more void space in the ice mass.

Where first these methods might eliminate the permanent CO2 deposits in the South Ice cap and expand the atmosphere, also winter deposits if any would be evaporated sooner in the spring than normal. Large quantities of ice could be melted, to cool habitats, and to send rivers of water down an aqueduct system to the Hellas Depression and perhaps other depressions such as Argyle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellas_Planitia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyre_Planitia

This process might then generate Hydroelectric power on Mars. Ice covered rivers can run on the existing Mars, and in many cases, it is likely that flowing water would be covered by domes or be inside of tunnels cut in rock.

Ice dams could be a troublesome thing however, so that would require an expense to pay to regulate the prevention of them where not desired. Otherwise, permafrost dams are a useful thing that could be created.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-06 10:14:17)

Void · 2025-08-08 09:32:01

I came here for another topic, but since I am here I will comment a bit more on the just previous post here.

Bifacial Solar Panels could be good for polar areas on terrestrial planets in the case of Earth where a undesirable ice age might occur. I hear a lot about lots of volcano's just now.

What if it is important that the Earth overheats just a bit, as insurance against a sudden emergence of greater than normal volcanism which could ruin much of the farming we depend on?

In theory in an emergency, we could put bifacial solar panels in the interior of large fields of ice such as for Iceland, South Georgia, Greenland, and Antarctica?

I do not recommend it now, except as a small experiment to see how to do it if needed. We would be manipulating albedo, which would somewhat warm the Earth's atmosphere, and might help to melt ice to some extent. That would be to stop the sea levels from dropping too much.

Actually I might have liked the world of the last ice age for us if we could have redistributed the population, but in our current circumstances, a sea level drop and expansion of ice fields, would be economically harmful to the present so called civilization.

A problem on the Earth for this scheme would be winds that could be very strong and might blow bifacial panels over. Also, the panels would have to be repositioned as ice shifted in depths and structure.

Mars:
I think it is reasonable to say though that Mars is indeed in a snowball condition, but additionally most of its ice deposits are covered in dust and even rock. The rock I presume comes more from volcanic eruptions and secondary impacts from planetary impactors.

The planet seems however to be covered in many glaciers and ice sheets.

At the polar areas of Mars, however, winds should not be so much a problem for bifacial vertical solar panels. So, that is a major plus for Mars relative to Earth.

If we "Melt" Mars by some terraform method, thinking desires lush green fields of England I suppose. But that is not very well in reach. More likely snowfalls will increase the reflection of light into space. Bodies of water created may be likely be ice covered and then snow covered.

But Vertical Bifacial Solar Panels would act like Spruce Trees in our Northern Hemisphere.

It is my opinion that these trees have in part been terraforming the Northern Hemisphere: https://minecraft.wiki/w/Old_Growth_Spruce_Taiga

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruce

https://treejourney.com/best-spruce-tre … jor-types/
Image Quote: OIP.yWnLYKKYeiVDFlPJHgxASwHaGL?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain&o=7&rm=3
As you can see here on occasion snow falls, and a combination of wind and sublimation can rid the trees of the snow, but the ground may likely hold onto unmeted snow much longer. At high latitudes light bouncing off the snow can often intercept the trees and cause warmth and even a bit of photosynthesis even in the winter, I believe.

We might hope to imitate this with Vertical Bifacial Solar Panels, and so alter the albedo of Mars where reflective water solids might accumulate.

About the trees and the ice age. My understanding is that the northern trees need about 2 weeks of weather above 50 degrees F, to reproduce. If they can reproduce and the permafrost soil melts to enough of a depth in the summer, then the trees can "March" north, and help to melt the ice caps on Earth. This may have assisted the melting of the ice caps in Europe and North America, as the Ice age ended.

It is not certain to me that these trees used to be able to reproduce with such a short reproductive season or to have tolerated shallow melts of permafrost. This could be a new adaptation that has altered the Earth's climate and contributed to destroying the Mammoth Steppe. Or perhaps these trees could have done this when other ice ages ended in the much deeper past. I don't know.

But if they assisted the melting of the on-land ice caps, they may also have provoked more open water in the north latitudes and so caused greater precipitation on the Mammoth Steppe and allowed the trees to grow into the Mammoth Steppe.

On Mars we will want to mimic this process, I feel as Mars is for more than one reason a cold planet an not likely to become warm, just warmer.

On the northern ice cap of Mars, I have supposed that the cap could be evaporated away or even melted to make a vast network of lakes and canals.

The atmospheric pressure in the Northern Lowlands can approach 9 millibars, I believe, and the land where the Northern Ice cap dwells, is pushed downward by the ice, so atmospheric pressure would be a bit higher if the ice could be cleared from that depression. Further, if the CO2 of the ice deposits can be evaporated then the pressure at this location could likely be >2.5 * 9 = 22.5 millibars. This would be much more protective from radiation than the current situation is. On a guess and being optimistic, maybe as much as 30 millibars.

So with the pressure calculator: https://endmemo.com/chem/vaporpressurewater.php

So, the vapor pressure of water would be about 23.2977 for a 20 degrees C temperature.

However, I expect that lakes and canals will be ice covered, or dome covered or both at times.

As for the Southern Cap, it will be sort of Alpine in nature, and from my point of view the best thing to do is spread it out and collect the sunlight on it using Vertical Bifacial Solar Panels.

But of course, other optical methods for Mars could be used as well.

I do anticipate that early settlements on Mars will be at lower latitudes, but that some terraform techniques applied may make the polar areas more tolerable for subsequent settlements of robots and humans on and inside some ice deposits.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-08 10:24:16)

Void · 2025-08-09 11:34:00

While I have suggested polar solar which would be "Planted", like a spruce tree, various levels of "Animation" as in "Animal", are also options. Robotic systems could be incorporated into this perhaps resembling social insect processes, such as ants and bees.

So, if you have a massive body of ice, it should not be that hard to dig ice caves. These could be unpressurized. Solar harvesting equipment could be put away into such places if necessary to endure a winter condition.

Similarly solar panels that might even resemble a car freshener, resembling a tree, could be placed on a swivel bearing, as to be sun following. This would be a related form of "Animation" of solar harvesting equipment.

Solar harvest equipment might not be only photovoltaic, or even electric harvesting. They could also be thermal in nature.

We also could entertain inflatable bubbles that might be deflated for winter to avoid collapse from precipitation accumulations. Even if the sunlight intensity were not intense enough to sufficiently heat these, electrical or thermal power from solar energy devices could be used to make the interiors sufficient for photosynthesis.

A very simple version could be inflated to perhaps 10-50 millibar, and have an interior temperature just above freezing, and quite a few organisms could grow under those conditions. If you grew algae, or other microbes, those could be edible or productive in some other way. Also, others have indicated that you could grow mushrooms on organic waste from this process.

Anyway, agriculture would be possible on both of the polar areas in the summertime's, with "Midnight Sun" effects.

Robots and Humans could be sheltered inside of chambers in the ice masses.

Ending Pending

Using heat pumps, dual chambers could support sunless agriculture.

From a post in another topic, I extract this: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=11053&p=3
This whole post interests me:

Unfinished business, I think:
I found this last night, accidentally. I don't know how to validate it so I won't. But I feel it is "Unfinished Business" for me so I will put it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawATQk … ModoEnergy
Quote:
Pumped Thermal Energy: the Overlooked Storage Solution with Alexis Dole (SynchroStor)
Modo Energy
15.1K subscriber
I am worried about perpetual machine issues. I don't think that is the case here, but it does seem to be too good to be true.
Here is a blurb from "AI Overview" on my phone: Quote
SynchroStor is developing a novel, high-temperature heat pump designed for industrial applications. This heat pump is capable of operating across a wide temperature range, from -100 C to +400 C.Making it suitable for diverse heating and cooking needs in various industries. The technology is particularly notable for its potential to decarbonize industrial process by eliminating CO2 emissions from applications like industrial drying.
Quote:
Wide temperature range Unlike many commercial heat pumps, SynchroStor's technology can operate at both very high and very low temperatures. This makes it adaptable to a broader spectrum of industrial processes, including those requiring high temperature heat.
Here is another article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/very-hig … from-wswue Quote:
Very high temperature heat pumps eliminate CO₂ emissions from industrial dryers
SynchroStorSynchroStor
SynchroStor
Decarbonising heat and energy storage
Published Nov 27, 2024
+ Follow
Architecture of a convective dryer
I had previously seen articles about a Norwegian heat pump that can reach 180 degrees C. This seems to be it: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/08/19/ … heat-pump/ Quote:
The world’s hottest heat pump
A Norwegian consortium has built an industrial heat pump that can reach a temperature of up to 180 degrees Celsius. The machine can be used with different industrial processes that rely on steam as an energy carrier and can reduce a facility’s energy consumption by between 40% and 70%, as it enables the recovery of low-temperature waste heat.
August 19, 2021 Emiliano Bellini
But the previous system claims to go to -100 to +400 degrees C.
I am wondering if a heat pump could cool a data center and produce high grade industrial heat and low grade industrial heat. But it may also have potential to store cold and heat.
Looks very interesting.
Ending Pending

From post #3 of this topic again:

Quote from previous post:

In the above drawing heat can be pulled out of B and inserted to A perhaps by a heat pump.
But if heat buildup is too much then Hot water can be vented to atmosphere, to dispose of the heat.
This process would also provide more void space in the ice mass.
Where first these methods might eliminate the permanent CO2 deposits in the South Ice cap and expand the atmosphere, also winter deposits if any would be evaporated sooner in the spring than normal. Large quantities of ice could be melted, to cool habitats, and to send rivers of water down an aqueduct system to the Hellas Depression and perhaps other depressions such as Argyle.

Looking at the chamber "A" and chambers in the bedrock or bedregolith, enough warmth could be sustained to perhaps foster various kinds of agriculture. Precision fermentation, Mushrooms, and also (We may hope), minimum light green agriculture largely sustained using Acetate. Ideally the total amount of light needed would be just enough for minimum human comfort. So, just for humans to see, and as signals to the plants as to seasonality.

About Acetate: https://modernfarmer.com/2022/07/artifi … synthesis/
It is not yet guaranteed that vascular crops could be efficiently this way, but perhaps if you had to you would give them 1/10th of the light normal and then also the Acetate.

Industrial Fermentation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_fermentation

Precision Fermentation: https://www.susupport.com/knowledge/man … -explained

At least at the south ice cap of Mars the thickness of the cap ice is much more than what might be needed, so it might be desirable to spread it out if convenient.

And so perhaps 300 feet of ice might be more ideal than say maximum feet.

But of course, I just annoyed the metric people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_polar_ice_caps
Quote:

The thickness of Mars' ice caps varies significantly between the north and south poles:
The north polar ice cap (Planum Boreum) has a thickness of approximately 3,000 meters (10,000 feet), with the basal unit being nearly 1,000 meters (3,300 feet) thick.
2
The south polar ice cap has a thickness of about 3 kilometers (1.9 miles).
2
These ice caps are primarily composed of water ice, with some dry ice present in the south polar cap.
1

Two related units could be created which would be useful for Mars.
A Mars-Bar which would be the weight of 100 feet of fresh water in the Mars gravity field sort of gets there. That may approximate the water weight needed to create a water column sufficient to make 1 bar of water column pressure.

And then clean ice could be .90% of that.

But if we are making ice perhaps, we could make dirty ice so that 100 feet of dirty ice, will exert 1 bar of pressure. That "Dirt" does not have to be only dirt but could be basalt fibers to add strength.

But a unit of measure based on ~111 feet of clean ice might need a unit of measure created for it.

Some places on Mars already have sheets of ice approximately suitable to this sort of game.

But if the ice of the North ice cap could be persuaded to migrate to the south hemisphere, then as snowfall and frost, we might be able to "Pancake" that out so that we have an ideal thickness where solar equipment could be placed on top, and the ice be hollowed out with tunnels and vaults. This could have a much bigger footprint than the existing polar ice caps.

The total volume of tunnels and vaults could hold a great deal of "Air" which would help weather bad events like global dust storms.

Due to recent things, I have read, it appears that the undergrounds of the south hemisphere are considerably warmer than those of the northern hemisphere. So, for our expanded solar ice cap of the south hemisphere, there may be hopes of extensive geothermal energy to have during winter.

That is quite a bit.

In my mind wanting to duplicate the Earth on Mars with deep oceans is hard to imagine causing, and would be much less productive than an "Ice Relm".

A managed ice age on Mars looks good to me.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-09 12:39:36)

Void · 2025-08-09 13:53:31

Here is someone else speaking of ideas, I thought not compatible with this topic, but now I think would be compatible.

Many ideas are compatible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK4_6I5 … eekinSpace
Quote:

Earth on Mars - Terraforming the Red Planet
This Week in Space

Her ideas do not appear until later in the video. I have not finished, it.

A 100 millibar atmosphere of mostly Oxygen, would still be a very cold planet, but indeed could have a open air biosphere.

Actually a 333 millibar Mars would still be very cold.

In order for Mars to be as warm as Earth on average, it would need 2 bars of Oxygen/Nitrogen mix.

So, indeed I think my ideas of a Ice Age Mars would hold.

And the chance to have a healthy biosphere in the Northern Hemisphere, mostly and maybe Hellas, and the Southern uplands to be less favorable to a biology but with a large ice slab, quite inhabitable for humans and their robots.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-09 13:58:01)

Void · 2025-08-10 12:24:54

Included into this plan can be the two Mars moons.

If these moons lack Hydrogen and Water, Methane and a bit of Ammonia from Mars could be brought up there to make water and CO2 and N2 from reacting these with the regolith of these moons. This then may allow the creation of structure in the orbit of Mars.

These then could support missions from Mars to terrestrial crossing asteroids. Robots could do the bulk of the work, but things could be made out of the materials of these asteroids, and air-braked into orbits of Venus, Earth and Mars.

Of course eventually I want 10 Hygea, and Ceres in the loop but you have to start smaller than that, I think.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-10 12:28:58)

Void · 2025-08-18 13:56:18

If Mars would retain 1 or 2 polar ice caps, I have been thinking about how to turn ice caps into air tanks.

For Air I would indicate a mixture that is significantly of Oxygen and may contain portions of Nitrogen and/or Argon.

Of course I have been thinking about creating tunnels and vaults in the ice and perhaps lining them with balloons of plastic or similar.

I have been concerned about the potential for fire. For instance pure Oxygen at a pressure of 1 bar would be a bad plan, even if the plastic liner was in direct contact with water ice.

But I queried for some numbers on fire and Oxygen. At 16% Oxygen, fire is hard to sustain.

Query: "How much Oxygen is needed for fire?"
https://www.answers.com/chemistry/What_ … for_a_fire
Quote:

A fire requires approximately 16% oxygen in the air to sustain combustion, while the air we breathe contains about 21% oxygen, which is more than sufficient for fire to thrive.

Query: "And what do humans need for breathing?"
https://www.sciencing.com/minimum-oxyge … ing-15546/
Quote:

Not Enough Oxygen: Side Effects
Serious side effects can occur if the oxygen levels drop outside the safe zone. When oxygen concentrations drop from 19.5 to 16 percent, and you engage in physical activity, your cells fail to receive the oxygen needed to function correctly. Mental functions become impaired and respiration intermittent at oxygen concentrations that drop from 10 to 14 percent; at these levels with any amount of physical activity, the body becomes exhausted. Humans won't survive with levels at 6 percent or lower.
Read More: https://www.sciencing.com/minimum-oxyge … ing-15546/

So, if the tunnels and vault systems in an ice cap had 16% Oxygen fire would be hard to sustain. Also, with plastics near ice that can melt, and with temperatures low, say perhaps -10 degrees C, I anticipate igniting and maintaining a "Wild Fire" out of control would be rather hard.

I think though that if we dropped the air pressure from 1 bar to 1/3rd bar, then we could triple the Oxygen content.
So, 48% Oxygen 52% N2/Argon?

1/4 Bar would be dangerously low pressure for humans, but 64% Oxygen and 36% N2/Argon.

So, I am anticipating that an Oxygen concentrator could be used by humans when traveling in this environment: https://aroflit.com/products/1-5-l-min- … Ad+Group+1

If they have a compartment they live in in the system either a Oxygen concentrator or a slight pressurization of the tunnel air to make the Oxygen level acceptable.

Robots could work in these tunnels and vaults, and there waste heat might help keep the tunnels and vaults from getting too cold.

Oxygen could be obtained perhaps by splitting CO2, and if Natural Hydrogen can be found, then to farm microbes using CO and H2.

Otherwise, both CO2 and H20 could be split to both produce the Oxygen and the chemical farming.

Plastics would likely be created using biological materials.

Energy stability could result from consuming stored Oxygen and Natural Hydrogen. Otherwise, fuels could be created by splitting CO2 and H20.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-08-18 14:19:24)

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Bipolar Mars Terraform Plan

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