Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.

Void · Yesterday 12:35:05

Then what if for the cylinder bottom half that might do a sub-orbit or full orbit, a heat shield was something that you put on it as if armor on a knight?

The real shell of the cylinder would have the ablative heat shield which is the emergency back-up. The Active Cooling Shield would be slipped over that and clamped down.

So, when the cylinder returned from a mission, you would do primary service to it by exchanging the outer heat shield component.

Upon an exchange with a new Active Cooling Shield, then the Cylinder could be stacked again on a Superheavy, and have a new Main Tanks assembly put on top of it.

If the emergency ablative heat shield had been burned from an Active Heat Shield failure, then of course greater repairs would be mandated.

After a Active Cooling Heat shield had been used once it would require complete analysis and refurbishment or scrapping depending on the results of the analysis.

But if you had more Active Cooling Shields, then this would minimize down time for the 6-9 raptor engines and header tanks, etc. of the Cylinder bottom half of the 2nd Stage.

Ending Pending

Void · Yesterday 13:36:23

The first time I saw an inversion was the Blue Origins Moon lander, with propellant tanks on top, engines and crew below.

So, this inversion might be somewhat similar.

As the cylindrical bottom part does not all have to be pressurized, extendable landing legs could be contained in the cylinder shell along with Header Tanks, Avionics, and maybe a smaller crew/cargo compartment.

This could allow for a tower catch and yet the legs could be in there to extend out of the bottom skirt in the event that was desired.

The cylinder reduced of the dry mass of the main tanks, might be lighter, so that the landing legs don't need to be as substantial.

While sub-orbital for the cylinder and small engines for the Main Tanks is an option, going full orbital with the Main Tanks might be an option as well in which case the Main Tanks will not need any substantial form of propulsion.

The Main Tanks also will likely need subdividing as when you disconnect the Main Tanks from the cylinder, the propellants in the tanks feeding the raptors, needs protection or it would be lost to space.

So, this would add complexity. Even so, extra structure would simply be more metal to orbit.

There would be multiple options to transfer propellants between chambers to prepare for separation. Or you would simply burn the main chambers until near empty, and separate. Other chambers could hold various fluids/propellants.

If Magdrive is able to run on an Aluminum/Lithium Alloy, then it might be able to come down into sub-orbital and take charge of the Main tanks. But it would have to be very powerful engines to do that.

There would only be the trip time from the launch from Florida for instance to the reentry half way around the world.

It is a fun set of Puzzles at least though.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 13:43:47)

Void · Yesterday 14:14:02

If a Magdrive or Neumann Drive process can be matured and expanded sufficiently then it might be possible to use tank materials to go and clean up large chunks of Space Junk.

I even wonder if we could take the ISS to a higher orbit and decommission it instead of dumping it back to Earth.

If the materials could be put to salvage/reuse, then perhaps it has value for that. At the very least it might be converted to radiation shielding, maybe propellants for Magdrive or Neumann Drive.

Inverted thinking again. So much was spent to get it into orbit, maybe it could have value if lifted to a higher orbit by efficient Magdrive or Neumann Drive.

Ending Pending

Void · Today 09:47:51

So, Blue Origin has in my opinion suggested the first inverted ship, with the propellants "Above" the cabin and landing engines.

https://www.blueorigin.com/blue-moon

I suppose adapting that to a two-part Starship 2nd stage would be somewhat complicated by the downcomers you would need to pass the propellants from main tanks on top, though the lower portion to the raptors.

So, the lower part might be like a torus or doughnut, perhaps the downcomers could disconnect and travel to orbit with the Main Tanks.

Something like this again:

If it is possible to enter the cylinder/torus/doughnut sideways into the atmosphere, then the cylinder can have a one time emergency ablative heat shield as Starship already now has, and then for primary heat shield a literal primarily metal shield that can be strapped onto the cylinder. The heat shield would be actively cooled probably with Methane evaporation.

I now want to try to borrow thinking from Stoke Space. It's upper stage has engines that overhang the 1st Stage. They could fire from the ground up, and so do work all the way from the surface to orbit.

I don't know how well that could work for the imaginary spacecraft I am thinking about. Of course you don't want to melt the 1st stage by having engines firing too close to its tank walls.

https://www.stokespace.com/nova/
Image Quote:

OK, that is a bit of a long shot, I don't think that raptors could be used overhanging the expanded perimeter as they would probably be too violent.

Perhaps some smaller engines in a pattern resembling what Stoke Space is doing.

In any case if you could expand the diameter of Starship larger than Superheavy, then if you are able to do a sideways entry with a strap on Heat Shield, you have a larger surface area which may allow for slightly lower reentry temperatures on the Heat Shield.

Of course it would also cause greater atmospheric losses during launch, but if you could fire perimeter engines, maybe that could be helpful against gravity losses????

One thing I like about strap on Heat Shields, is it may be possible to manufacture them on the Moon. Either Actively Cooled or completely Ablative. If they were substantial enough, they might even allow the ship to survive entry from the Moon at much greater speed than LEO. That and the possibility that Oxygen might come from the Moon even to LEO, would make settling the Moon a useful endeavor.

One version of the ship would have it retain its main tanks and be refilled to travel to the Moon.

Yes, I know these are wild ideas, but just maybe some of it or a cousin to such ideas may be useful in the future.

Ending Pending

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Last edited by Void (Today 10:18:42)

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Re: Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.

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