Utilizing Superpower (Per Rethink X, Tony Seba)

Void · 2025-04-18 12:12:18

I think that this might involve solar panels being more of a structural material themselves.

There is no telling how much natural light is needed to signal plants to grow appropriately.

I am hoping for something like 5% maybe. So, although the dome or continuing archway, might be a little bit like a greenhouse, it would be more of a solar power collector.

We can hope that plants will be bioengineered, to work more with Acetate as their energy source.

Of course, if desired, some artificial lighting could also be included instead of windows, so that the plants can be convinced that the season is different than what it is. Again, you might hope that this would be a tiny minority of the energy needed by the plants.

And then this may lead to a question of if it is good to have classical greenhouses on Mars, or to do some alternative such as suggested in this post.

Acetate is supposed to be more efficient than photosynthesis. But plants are not yet adapted as well as needed to use Acetate.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-04-18 12:19:49)

Void · 2025-04-18 17:21:41

I will work on this later. Thanks British! https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst … r-AA1DaZo3 Quote:

4 billion tons yearly: UK starts sucking carbon from sea with floating solar power
Story by Prabhat Ranjan Mishra • 9h •
2 min read

Obviously this is going to be useful in the canals that I have suggested.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-04-18 17:22:55)

Void · 2025-04-18 20:46:43

Referring to the previous post, not a bad plan, but I think that covered canals such as have been mentioned where Hydrogen would be injected to dissolve in the water, would also absorb CO2 and O2 and N2, from the atmosphere, and along with other nutrients should allow the production of large amounts of biomass.

In some cases, perhaps food from air and energy.

And some setups may be able to extract water from the air at the same time.

Ending Pending

Void · 2025-05-04 09:22:16

This is of some interest to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHdUMDV … ithHerbert
Quote:

EXCLUSIVE: Tony Seba Predicts AI + Robots Will Change EVERYTHING!
Brighter with Herbert

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-04 09:23:12)

Void · 2025-05-04 17:18:52

(th) requested that I attempt a summary of the previous posts video. Here is his request: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 41#p231441

I have only watched it once and did not pick up everything. I will watch it again and see if I can get more details.

However, I can render a preliminary summary. Advancements in technology may allow manipulation of materials in time to create crafted hardware at reduced prices to harvest energy at a lowered cost.

This will involve:
1) Generalized Labor from Humanoid and other robots.
2) Lowered cost of labor will allow for lower cost hardware.
3) Lowered cost hardware may make the concept of "Superpower" justified.
4) Improved AI will make #1 in this list more useful as to have an actual brain.

In the case of solar energy, "Superpower" would be because the cost of hardware will be so low that it will be justified to have so much in the way of solar panel quantity that on the worst day of the year, you would still have enough energy. The "Superpower" then is exhibited the most strongly on your best day of the year.

The utility of "Superpower" is desired, so that there needs to be discovered/created productive method that could use that excess and "Low Cost" power, even if it is intermittent.

My view is that Tony Seba maybe is a little towards having "Elon Time", but I think eventually this will be likely to happen.

Here is the video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHdUMDV … ithHerbert
Quote:

EXCLUSIVE: Tony Seba Predicts Super Abundant Utopia!
Brighter with Herbert

I will try to take notes.

Interesting terms:
-Stellar Energy
-Ignition Points
-Artificial Labor = Robots + AI
-Extractive vs. Stellar

Extractive @ 9.44 (Old)
Stellar @ 16.30 (New)

Overbuilding @ 20.55

Example: Amazon at Christmas (Highest Demand) and then the rest of the year.

Overbuilding for Stellar Energy apparently is the opposite of making very large storage, so that you can even out the energy over a time period. Overbuilding of solar panels, for instance, reduces the amount of energy storage you need.

But then that system will have "Superpower", at times that are not the worst days of winter for instance.

Superpower might be 3, 4, 5 times the worst-case energy harvesting. @ 24.10

So, you design your solar system for the worst week of the year and then get the superpower the rest of the year.
(This presumes that the cost of solar, wind, and batteries will continue to go down to a point that this could be afforded)

26.04 Ignition, Entropy, negative Entropy Moving from Entropy system to Negative Entropy system.

@ 29.00 Stellar Transportation System. Transportation 10-20 times cheaper than now.

@ 32.22, battery recycle, but also improving energy density in batteries. System can heal itself and produce more from what it has.

@34.29 Artificial Labor (Robots +AI) Improving much faster at this time than Moore's law.

@ 38.29 AI Ignition Point (System becomes self-sustaining and self-improving)

Eventual Artificial Labor costs $1.00/hour $0.10/hour or eventually less.

@ 44.00 Cern becomes more involved in the conversation.

Cern asks Tony Seba Questions. I may review this part next:
Ending Pending

@ 52.00 Space

@ 56.27 we will only need 1% of the land, and so perhaps vast areas will be turned back to nature.

@ 57.18 Precision Fermentation

@ 1.02.14 Human reproduction

@ 1.08.35 Economic translation which will have troubles. Inflation of some things. Deflation of others. Job losses.

@ 1.11.29 Economic Hallucinations.

@ 1.13.54 UBI? NO but "Granting Stellar Output Rights"

@ about 1.18.00 "Stellar Core needs to be open source, like internet or highway system"

@ 1.20.18 National debt and deflation, a problem

@ about 1.24.31 Urgent! to build "Stellar Energy System" before economic breakdown.

@ 1.30.50 What are the structures you need for Stellar rather than Extractive?

@ 1.34.37 These changes in the next 10 to 20 years it is said.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-04 19:38:41)

Void · 2025-05-21 19:16:44

This is worth watching, I feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC8-fxQ … l=RethinkX Quote:

The DAWN of STELLAR ENERGY | Key Findings of RethinkX’s ‘Understanding Stellar Energy’ Report
RethinkX
20.9K subscriber

They mentioned a notion of using heat from a data center to help do precision fermentation.

They kind of suggested a decision tree of sorts. With a weather forecast, you might rate how the sunshine of the next day will feed energy into your system. If it looks good for tomorrow, then you can consume more of the power in your battery system. If tomorrow is not too promising, then you conserve your battery power.

This feeds into a system I would like to describe.

This system may draw on several power sources, but I add a new one that I don't think has been factored in very much .
The temperature difference between day and night. This will very likely work best in arid areas with clear night skies being common.

Post #21 could be considered as prior reference materials to some extent: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 13#p231013
Quote:

OK, this would be a round canal as a collector:

So, a sort of decision tree could exist for this due to weather forecasts. Normally we don't get magic wishes, but in this case maybe we can. You know what the Relative Humidity will be tonight. You know what the low temperatures will be. So, based on that you can draw air though the ice-water of the circular canal to catch moisture into it and also CO2. But you would further judge if to do that, depending on the forecast for tomorrow for solar energy, and the battery levels you have.

In a similar manner you may run the heat pump, that makes ice water, and could dump heat into the exhaust air, if you do decide to collect CO2 and water.

So, you would use battery power to collect CO2, moisture, and cold from the night air, if it is considered a good investment to drain part of the power in the batteries.

On the other hand if the situation is not optimal for getting CO2, moisture, and cold from the night air, you might make Hydrogen instead, or just conserve battery power. During periods when you did have daytime superpower you could make these same evaluations as well.

Then you might mate these processes with the idea of running a data center, and using the waste heat for precision fermentation, as you have then collected CO2, Hydrogen, and moisture for it.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-21 19:53:11)

Void · 2025-05-24 12:33:54

I am willing to entertain the idea that the further accumulation of creation/invention may make what was true, now then false. That is that batteries will be a problem for alternative energy sources.

I have been hearing about Sodium types of batteries. The news tends to be positive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfsijkf … tricViking
Quote:

Why Solid State Sodium Batteries Could Slash EV Costs: 10x Power Density!
The Electric Viking

There is so much incentive for "Have Nots" to try to bypass Hydrocarbon Necessity. So, of course that will spill onto everyone else.

I am not a green though, I do not think we kill the horses and then invent cars. That is what Idiots do.

You invent cars and put the horses to other uses.

So, I think that RethinkX is approximately correct, but the time scale requires some patience.

Sodium Batteries may be better for Mars, due to the cold, than Lithium Batteries.

https://www.elevenenergy.co.uk/post/the … mperatures Quote:

Between -20°C and 55°C
Sodium batteries can operate between -20°C and 55°C, far exceeding the range of lithium batteries. They are suitable for extreme weather conditions and perform well in both low and high temperatures12345.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-24 12:43:33)

Void · 2025-05-25 11:56:30

This goes into a lot of detail about this topic and also some about synthetic labor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTH7RRj … ithHerbert Quote:

EXCLUSIVE: Tesla Wins Big With Unlimited Clean Energy | Adam Dorr
Brighter with Herbert
117K subscribers
Join

This gives me an opportunity to unload some stuff from the Attic of my mind.

Among this are stirring, heating, splitting, and collecting.

A scheme I have in mind that I do not have 100% certainty on is distillation of water on the floor of an ocean.

I read that Optimus might be able to work underwater to about 10 bar level. (This is having a lot of uncertainty). This then opens some continental shelf, and some lake bottoms.

If you have a tank of 10 bar atmosphere, with a pool of warm water in it, and in cold water deeper, and we circulate the 10 bar air, we may hope to condense, fresh water in the interior top of the tank. We may want to have fans to circulate the "Air" rather vigorously.

Unlike vacuum distillation this is evaporation and condensation in a body of gases that might convey more moisture due to the thick nature of the air within.

In my dream world we could make these tanks out of Carbon. If so, we will need to anticipate microbes that will evolve to eat it so we may want to perhaps cover the Carbon walls, to keep Oxygen away. (Carbon eating microbes will perhaps not be too much of a problem for a while).

So, I feel that this process is capable of consuming lots of superpower, in various ways and we hope to provide strong economic value: https://superinnovators.com/2024/08/wor … s-99-tons/ Quote:

World’s largest carbon fiber rocket-building machine weighs 99 tons
Rocket Lab in the USA have begun installing a 12-metre tall automated fiber placement machine to produce the world’s largest carbon composite rocket structures in Maryland.
From Rocket Lab 18/08/24 (originally released 08/08/23)

So, now we have a market for our Hydrocarbons. If we pull the Hydrogen off, we might make Carbon objects we can submerge under water.

You may heat the water in the tank by several methods. Electric Heat Pump? Electric Heater, Pulling Tropical Surface Water pumped into the bottom of the submerged tank.

The cold of the water on the Continental Shelf, a certain distance down will serve to drive a condensation process that will dry the "Air" interior to the tank, and so then will promote evaporation from the surface of the warm water in the bottom of the tank. I will make a diagram.

Pause..............

So, for the gasses in the tank, we might want to avoid explosions or burning, so to limit the Oxygen. We might store Hydrogen or CO2 in them.

Of the choices, I suggest Hydrogen/Nitrogen, and to introduce some CO2, and maybe Air.
As the water is to be warm at least we might grow things in the water that consume the gasses.

In doing this we may be doing a bit of Stirring. If we heat the water inside the pool inside the tank and water evaporates and the condenses on the cold tank wall, then the cold water is made more warm, and so then may rise, and may carry nutrients with it. This may make the seas more fertile at those locations.

We might do this in lakes as well for instance Lake Erie, it is rather shallow, but the water might not be that clean.

Dealing with interior salt lakes: Great Salt Lake, Dead Sea, Aral Sea, Salton Sea, Caspian Sea.

As for the Great Salt Lake, heating may cause the lake itself to evaporate more. But if you put solar panels over it, it may inhibit evaporation. So, then you may be able to cause the lake to expand, if you reduce evaporation.

Salton Sea, same thing more or less, make it swell. If California had any brains actually, they would route more water from the Colorado River into the Salton Sea.

Because if you did the Carbon Tank thing off the arid coastal areas of California, you might get quite a product of water and also produced biomass. You might be able to shut off the Aqueducts, and reroute the water.

Thankfully there are other salt lakes on the planet so that our "Green Tards" will not be able to stop the research.

Sorry, but I group the liberals in to the royal thinkers. Just look at Carbon Trading/ Carbon Taxes. They are simply trying to elevate themselves to the elite and to reduce common people to peasants whose resources will "Wisely" be metered, until they will be happy to pay with their "Worthless" lives to kiss the heal that crushes their mouth.

The "Green Tards" are the ones who bite the hand that feeds them.

Ending Pending

Why am I so brutal?

Well these "Green Tards" want to ring the alarm bells to have their butts wiped for them but they will not fix anything.

Of course I am annoyed.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-25 12:45:44)

Void · 2025-05-25 20:21:20

If we could figure out how to make our energy do multiple things as it neutralizes a difference in more vibration and less vibration, then I feel that that is prudent.

So say we had a data center and were going to cool it. It has already been suggested to heat greenhouses with the waste heat. Or heat the incubators for precision fermentation.

First of all, I think we have two obvious pathways to extract the heat:
1) Extract the coolant fluid and warm the water in a tank as shown in the previous post:
2) With a heat pump, extract heat from the surface waters. This will leave a cold discharge that can be used indirectly to cool the data center.

Quote:

So, for the gasses in the tank, we might want to avoid explosions or burning, so to limit the Oxygen. We might store Hydrogen or CO2 in them.
Of the choices, I suggest Hydrogen/Nitrogen, and to introduce some CO2, and maybe Air.
As the water is to be warm at least we might grow things in the water that consume the gasses.
In doing this we may be doing a bit of Stirring. If we heat the water inside the pool inside the tank and water evaporates and the condenses on the cold tank wall, then the cold water is made more warm, and so then may rise, and may carry nutrients with it. This may make the seas more fertile at those locations.

Route the heat into the tank to promote both Precision Fermentation and water distillation.

Also needed are chemicals such as Hydrogen, CO2, and perhaps a bit of Air with O2/N2. So, we are probably going to want to pull CO2 out of the water or atmosphere. As for the Hydrogen it can be created using electrolysis, I suppose. It is somewhat storable under pressure in an underwater container.

So, there are a lot of storable items. Cold for the Data Center, Hot/warm for the Precision Fermentation, Hydrogen Gas, CO2 Gas. And you can have battery packs for the Data Center, which I read has power draws the fluctuate very quickly.

So, I think you could have a good base energy source and then add in a variable such as Solar, Wind, Wave.

The various storage means I have listed, will perhaps help maintain the supply of resources to the Data Center, and allow the conversion of "Superpower" to useful product.

Here we may be harnessing various variable energy sources, and a steady one, also the differential temperature of the water.

How this is different from OTEC, is we use energy to exploit thermal differences in the water, to produce product.

OTEC tries to exploit thermal differences to make electricity so that the electricity can help make product.

It can be noted that we already are extracting CO2 presumably from the water and are growing things with it. So the Biomass might produce a precision fermentation product but also might make a biofuel as well.

We are also hoping that this process will encourage the making of Carbon built things like tanks and pipelines?
So, that is a form of sequestration.

OK, we hope to get some CO2 capture into organic matter into the Ocean by the upwelling of nutrient rich water:

Yes, it is true we are heating the ocean a bit for a while in places, but the heat still will reach it's destiny, which is the deep universe, it just goes on a detour to do some work for us.

If Humans or animals eat the biomass produced, and if the poo, some of that poo will end up in sediments, and so then more permanently sequester Carbon.

And if it is necessary to extract CO2 from the environment, here is a possible way to do it while creating wealth associated products.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-25 21:03:39)

Void · 2025-05-29 17:33:47

There are several places I could put this, I am more in the mood for Mars than Earth, but maybe something can translate to Earth.

Good for the Saudi's! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1FI2bs Quote:

Interesting Engineering
54.9K Followers
200% life extended: Saudi tech cools solar panels by 49°F, boosts output by 13%
Story by Georgina Jedikovska • 10h •
3 min read

So, on both planets' lifetime matters, and of course efficiency.

As I happens I have been thinking about the structures that can be assistive to solar panels on Mars.

For both Earth and Mars, I think that bifacial vertical solar panels may work well, as a basic start. For Earth, it is possible that vertical will be better protected from hail. For Mars, it is likely that vertical will partially be protected from dust accumulations.

For Mars, Vertical is not likely to have a wind problem. For Earth, it is very possible that vertical may have a wind problem.

But I am intending to embed these vertical solar panels into a protective frame, and also give assistance with robotic heliostats to send the light.

In both cases we are not only going to want to harvest the electricity but also the waste heat.

If we can incorporate a cooling mechanism like the Saudi's have figured out then all the better.

Pause................

I am thinking of putting a roof over the bifacial panels, and then sending light approximately horizontally to the panels, by way of heliostats.

A latitude of Mars could be circled with these, pointing each east-west. Between each of them a group of heliostats.

One may have an arch roof, or an 'A'-Frame roof to protect the solar panels.

Pause for a drawing............

Maybe this will be enough for some to understand:

There are several ways to collect thermal energy, from this apparatus. I did indicate a gap between the two bifacial panels. Perhaps either a closed or open method could use the Saudi's cooling method.

As for a simple way to collect heat, imagine air convection upwards towards the apex inside of the roof. There can be a pocket there to collect a volume of warm air. The roof will be made to allow air to flow up to that in underside edge gutters.

For Earth, if you wanted to include a heat pump, then even air say a few degrees above freezing would be useful. On Mars, you might try to compress the air directly after filtering the dust out of it. Perhaps you could do a heat pump achievement that way, concentrating the vibrations, and then passing them though a radiator into a fluid of some kind.
Then releasing the compressed gas possibly to cause CO2 Snow to some extent???

If we are going to use the Saudi's cooling materials on the back side of each panel, then we do have a means of improving the lifetime and efficiency of the panels, if we do not overheat them.

But of course if you are pushing light onto the panels from heliostats, you do indeed have the chances of overheating the panels, so you would want a very good and responsive process control to monitor the temperature of the Panels, so that the Heliostats can be directed away if the temperature gets too high.

I believe that on Earth solar panels might tolerate 2x the light, but overheating could be a problem.

So, for Mars, we might use heliostats to 4x the light, but it will be just as important to protect the solar panels from overheating.

But on Mars, room temperature is possible in nature as a maximum temperature. If you had 2x or 4x the light of course air temperature could be much higher. But it is true, that on Mars the air will not do heat convection as efficiently

But there may be ways to compensate for that.

I am thinking that on Earth, the A-Frames or Arch-Frames would be made from materials we are somewhat familiar with.

But for Mars, I am looking at "Tarpaper" of significant thickness. Mars being cold, tarpaper may be more compatible with building roof structures and radiators with plastic tubes glued to them. Of course if you shine too much Heliostat light onto them you might melt them. But we could hope to have a good process control.

If fact I am thinking that mirrors for heliostats might possibly be of tarpaper with a metal foil on them.

I am thinking of Hemp and Yeast as to the sources of tar and fiber materials, but we might also consider fiberglass or mineral wool.

Pause......

Algae or Yeast will grow efficiently from Acetate, and I presume Oxygen.
x4 and x8 efficiency relative to photosynthesis, I believe.
https://www.snexplores.org/article/inno … ts-in-dark
Quote:

Plants
No sun? No prob! A new process might soon grow plants in the dark
Electricity, not light, may one day power their growth — a special boon for space missions

Hemp is useful in very many ways. It would be nice if Acetate would help it grow as well. (I do Alcohol too much sometimes but no other narcotic. So, don't waste your time).

https://news.green-flower.com/25-things … from-hemp/
Quote:

25 Things You Didn’t Know Could Be Made From Hemp
by Rachel Garland

Tarpaper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_paper

Tarpaper using fiberglass: https://www.roofingfelt.org/types.html

There seems to be a small chance that Oil Spills will exist on Mars: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals … C07F7332CA

A salt dome with some sort of a spill does exist in one location: http://geomorphology.sese.asu.edu/Paper … s_geol.pdf

NASA insists that it is a brine water spill however, because they still believe that all hydrocarbons come from living things. However, we do not know that Mars never had life.

Someone else disagrees though: https://martinhovland.weebly.com/mars.html
Quote:

Yes, there is oil on Mars

At the foot of the giant Hebes Mensa salt dome on
Mars, there is a feature called the "Oil Spill" (Adams
et al., 2009). But, ccording to Adams et al., it consists of
liquid brines that have been coloured black by dark dust particles.
However, - this is not be true.

Image Quote:

All I can say is "I do not know".

Any means used to make Tar and Plastics would work well with things like brick and adobe, I think

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-29 18:58:49)

Void · 2025-05-30 08:42:40

If there were natural tar on Mars, collecting it and moving it to a construction site would be significant trouble in itself.

So, I anticipate manufacturing something like that by doing pyrolysis on organic materials.

Apparently even the Neanderthals did similar: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne … 180972994/

My hope is that yeast could be grown using Acetate and Oxygen, and then destructively decomposed, to produce Hydrocarbons, including tar.

My guess is that tar may work on Mars, but that volatiles will flow out of it at a faster rate than on Earth. I could always be wrong. Maybe it will be damaged too fast by the environment of Mars. But I am hoping that a colder environment will encourage its persistence of usefulness.

It is thought by some that Mars soil can be compressed to make useful bricks: https://www.sciencealert.com/it-turns-o … n-concrete Quote:

Martian Soil Can Be Compressed Into Bricks Stronger Than Concrete
Space
28 April 2017
ByPETER FARQUHAR, BUSINESS INSIDER

Could we then coat them with Tar and glue them together into useful structure?

It is inferior in many ways to concrete, so if we can get concrete, then we might prefer that. But until then, for some structures it might work.

As a vaccine against religious nutters: https://biblehub.com/topical/t/the_use_of_tar.htm
Quote:

Conclusion
The use of tar in the Bible highlights its practical applications and its role in significant biblical events. Whether in the construction of Noah's Ark, the Tower of Babel, or the basket of Moses, tar served as a crucial material that facilitated God's plans and purposes throughout biblical history.

So, if we were to use tar without pride and arrogance, perhaps it will be OK. Some of you will not understand. Some religious minds are shortcut in nature. Efficient but not entirely capable. Very dangerous though if provoked, by even silly things sometimes.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-30 08:59:51)

Void · 2025-06-04 13:01:58

I want to work a bit more with the materials from this post: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 50#p231950 Quote:

Maybe this will be enough for some to understand:
There are several ways to collect thermal energy, from this apparatus. I did indicate a gap between the two bifacial panels. Perhaps either a closed or open method could use the Saudi's cooling method.
As for a simple way to collect heat, imagine air convection upwards towards the apex inside of the roof. There can be a pocket there to collect a volume of warm air. The roof will be made to allow air to flow up to that in underside edge gutters.
For Earth, if you wanted to include a heat pump, then even air say a few degrees above freezing would be useful. On Mars, you might try to compress the air directly after filtering the dust out of it. Perhaps you could do a heat pump achievement that way, concentrating the vibrations, and then passing them though a radiator into a fluid of some kind.
Then releasing the compressed gas possibly to cause CO2 Snow to some extent???
If we are going to use the Saudi's cooling materials on the back side of each panel, then we do have a means of improving the lifetime and efficiency of the panels, if we do not overheat them.
But of course if you are pushing light onto the panels from heliostats, you do indeed have the chances of overheating the panels, so you would want a very good and responsive process control to monitor the temperature of the Panels, so that the Heliostats can be directed away if the temperature gets too high.

Instead of bifacial solar panels we could build a building and use the East and West walls, as mounting for solar panels.

Here is something that may have application on both Earth and Mars:

On Earth the advantages can be protection from Hail. Also the heated air will become accessible at the bottom of the Eaves of the House. Obviously strong wind will interfere with that when it occurs. If you wanted to put a glaze in front of your solar panels, that would correct that problem.

On Earth a problem with this system would be that you need heliostats for both the East and West side, and they would only be of service half of the day. But if your Heliostats can be mobile, then they can move from East to West and then West to East.

I really have been thinking about this more for Mars.

I am really looking to shelter robots. A room temperature of -10 Degrees Centigrade may be preferable. In the thin air this may help with cooling of motors. I suppose there could be a minimal pressurization of the buildings which could help with cooling.

The buildings could be very long north/south, or there may be multiple instances of the East and West of each other, with the Heliostats between them.

So, my intention in this is to harvest both the electric and the solar heat. For Mars, I am hoping that warm Mars air can be sucked in and filtered of dust and then compressed to increase the heat. In the manner of a heat pump.

And that the collected heat, could be stored into mass, solid or containers of water.

In the event of global dust storms or high latitude winters, the robots might hibernate in a huddle around a nuclear power source.

So, most work would be done off of solar energy, but nuclear would keep the work force alive.

A Norwegian heat pump can reach 180 degrees C, so that would be a hoped-for capability.

Here is a drilling method for heat pumps that might be useful in this scheme: https://cleantechnica.com/2025/01/21/bo … lications/
Quote:

In much of Europe, the temperature of the Earth 250 meters (820 feet) below the surface is a constant 14º C (57º F). That makes it an ideal temperature for ground source heat pumps — cool enough to conquer heat in the summer and warm enough to heat any building in the winter. But drilling down far enough to access that temperate zone can be costly and often requires large drilling rigs powered by diesel engines. Borobotics is a Swiss company that has invented an autonomous mini drilling machine that is just 13.5 cm wide and 2.8 meters long (5½ inches by 9¼ feet). Setting it up requires less that 8 square meters (86 square feet) of space, which means it needs no more space than the typical garden or parking space.

This may actually be sufficient to keep robots safe during a global dust storm of high latitude winter. But it would be nice to have some nuclear.

The exact nature of the buildings could be different than I have shown, but the method is illustrated.

The method may be able to harvest both heat and electricity from sunlight. Also a vertical surface, is likely to be possible to keep clean in the Martian environment. A vertical surface may shed more heat from convective heat flow than a more horizontal situation.

I would be happy to get comments on this.

In this other topic I have made my case that robotics that are emerging should be able to build quite a lot on Mars even before humans might arrive. https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 41#p232041

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-06-04 14:00:15)

Void · 2025-06-04 18:04:00

I want say that hoped for things are not certain things. They will have to be tried.

If possible it would be nice to build vertical walls of compressed Martian soil, and then to roof them over with something. My idea is a very stiff tar paper or perhaps even fiberglass.

You could place solar panels on the outside of the vertical walls, in the manner I suggested, but it is not mandated. You could use heliostats to send extra photons to the solar panels, but it is not mandated.

Should these buildings be built on top of slabs of ice, you could have connecting shafts in the ice below, and some of the ice sheets are as big as California and Texas combined. This robot habitat would be kept at a cold temperature. I nominate -10 degrees Centigrade.

For robots this could be a good temperature, to help keep their motors cool.

In the manners I have suggested in previous posts, electricity and heat could be collected and stored.

Even if the typical habitat temperature is -10 degrees Centigrade, this does not prevent the installation of tanks of water where algae or cyanobacteria might be grown. They would need Oxygen, and fuels such as Hydrogen, Methane, and Acetate to use as food.

Oils and Tars might be extracted from the farmed organisms.

Fibers could be from Basalt to make Tarpaper.

Or if you could make a resin you could try to do an opaque fiberglass. These to make coverings for the surface dwellings.

If there were a means to grow hemp, then many products could come from that.

Here is that old article about an ice slab on Mars: https://www.space.com/30502-mars-giant- … y-mro.html Quote:

A giant slab of ice as big as California and Texas combined lurks just beneath the surface of Mars between its equator and north pole, researchers say.
This ice may be the result of snowfall tens of millions of years ago on Mars, scientists added.

Quote:

The ice the scientists found measures 130 feet (40 m) thick and lies just beneath the dirt, or regolith, or Mars.
"It extends down to latitudes of 38 degrees. This would be like someone in Kansas digging in their backyard and finding ice as thick as a 13-story building that covers an area the size of Texas and California combined," Bramson said.
Such an extensive ice sheet had never been seen at these latitudes before, study team members said.

So these buildings would probably have lifts/elevators to go down into the ice tunnels which connect them.

And geothermal heat storage could be installed into the rock below them perhaps in some cases. But there would be a concern not to melt the ice sheets.

Human Habitats could be enmeshed into this major structure.

It is not all solved, but I think some of this may have validity.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-06-04 18:19:24)

Void · Yesterday 10:11:18

Perhaps this illustration will help describe a desire, but it does not guarantee success:

Additional things may be needed like roof and tunnel supports that might have to be made of more substantial materials.

But if this can be done and if the ice can be kept cold enough to not subside, then this method may make it possible to have robot work areas all over the ice slabs on Mars.

Ending Pending

Some of the above methods may be directly transferable to methods for Earth.

This topic is about "Superpower", but I think I will add several articles of interest that might point to a bright future for the human race:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst … r-AA1G5uJ2
Quote:

A Buried Giant: Scientists Unearth Clean Energy Source Under USA Capable of Powering Earth for 170,000 Years
Story by Marian Avila • 22h •
3 min read

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1G9oPE
Quote:

Innovative company deploys cutting-edge system to pull energy from deep underground: 'Will not run out for millions of years'
Story by Joseph Clark • 2h •
2 min read

Quote:

As ThinkGeoEnergy detailed, Exceed Geo Energy is teaming up with Peregrine Turbine Technologies to launch a geothermal energy system that runs on supercritical carbon dioxide.
Unlike older geothermal plants that use steam, this setup circulates a pressurized form of CO2 through a closed loop deep underground to pull heat from dry rock — no drilling into geysers or releasing harmful pollution.

And then gasoline from air? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1FAC7w
Quote:

US startup unveils fridge-sized machine that makes gasoline out of thin air
Story by Aamir Khollam • 1w •
3 min read

Well, if these things emerge, it will be a very nice future indeed.

Geothermal partners very nicely with solar and wind energy. You can conserve the ground heat when the sun is shining or the wind blowing.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 10:27:47)

Void · Yesterday 19:33:32

In the previous post I did not yet firmly establish a liquid water method with the growth of any "Crop".

Now I will suggest one to do in the ice tunnels. This is not to say that you could not have transparent greenhouses on the surface, but I want liquid water plumbing so that water from expanded tunnels can be moved to a use position.

Related to the drawing in the previous post here and another:

During serious dust storms this would be mothballed more or less, and the robots to retreat to a hibernation chamber(s) where perhaps nuclear like a kilopower from NASA could keep them charged and sufficiently warm.

The growth of "Crops" would be possible in the warm water tank, and also in the cold gutter type plumbing for water distribution/flow, in the ice tunnel.

While this is intended to be life support for a robot community, various factors that could give life support to humans as well, are developed in this concept.

The management of temperatures will be very important. We only want ice to melt when we want it to, and we don't want to freeze the water tanks with water still in them.

It is important to have a thin roof so that excess heat can be radiated out. In order to keep the ice tubes cold enough heat pumping of some type may be needed. But hopefully natural convection of thin air will be sufficient.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 20:06:15)

Void · Today 10:15:51

So, I have been thinking what would be next after working with relatively simple bulk materials, and having initial donations of sophisticated materials from Earth.

Perhaps we mimic the human progression through materials. Stone age, various metals ages, Industrial ages, and finally we seem to be entering a higher-level robotics age.

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