Multi-Ship Expeditions, Starboat & Starship, Other.

Void · 2025-05-10 13:51:23

A bit of correction for the previous post.

I have the notion that stations where asteroid ores can be processed might exist near the asteroid belt with a 2 Earth years circular orbit, and similarly inside the asteroid belt with 2 Mars years circular orbit.

Cyclers and Semi-Cyclers, with elliptical orbits would then link the plant to its 2X's ring. As propulsive methods would exist, these linking elliptical Cyclers and Sime-Cyclers, would be able to make maneuvers by gravitational passes of there "Parent" planet. Other means of propulsion could come from sunlight or the solar wind. Also, if robot tugs power by electric propulsion could bring materials to these elliptical Cyclers and Semi-Cyclers, then they could have electric propulsions to modify orbits.

So, if you had 365 Stations for the Earth at the 2-year circular orbit, you could give a date name to each one. Say 01-01. Month/Day or Day/Month if you like. If an elliptical Cycler or Semi-Cycler were Phase Tuned to have an aphelion at 01-01, it might propulsively be able to Phase Tune to another one, perhaps an adjacent one by using various means of propulsion.

So, a network of Circular Cyclers, and Elliptical Cyclers and Semi-Cyclers.

The Circular Cyclers could bulk up on materials from small objects from the Asteroid belt and would likely keep a lot of "Tailings" to make their structures from and pass on to the solar exchange system materials of value for sale.

If I have this wrong as a possibility, I would appreciate being corrected.

As I have said as this would be a network of cyclers, humans and some supplies could be exchanged across the network with high propulsion ships. And bulk materials would be exchanged by slow moving electric ships.

This then might weave the Earth/Moon, Mars/Phobos/Deimos in a network involving asteroids of the Maine Belts, and also even terrestrial crossing asteroids.

Materials from terrestrial crossing asteroids may be major contributors to Earth/Moon & Mars/Phobos/Deimos orbits.

While the Terrestrials may receive needed scarce materials, and produce bulk materials like Iron, Aluminum, and Silicon as propellants and for building structure.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-10 14:01:22)

Void · 2025-05-10 14:23:07

With a network for Earth/Moon and Mars/Phobos/Deimos, and with electric powered freighters all around there would be some hope of dealing with a human occupied ship which missed its transfer from one cycler to another, or to a home planet/moons.

There might be means of getting to another station and also that a freighter might be able to give assistance.

So, a malfunction on a passenger ship trying to get from one station/world to another would have greater hopes of rescue for passengers.

And so freighters might not have humans on board, but might have included into them methods to help humans with life support and propulsion options.

Ending Pending

Void · 2025-05-11 09:11:14

Asteroid Rings, Active Orbits, Forever Spaceships.

Previously I was starting from a planet and trying to align a network of stations both Circular Sun Orbiting and Elliptical Sun Orbiting.

But now I would like to start in the opposite direction. Making "Anchor Rings", in the Asteroid Belt and seeing if Elliptical Partners of them in "Active Orbits", could facilitate movements of people to and from worlds more inward than the asteroid belt.

I am working with somewhat obvious things, things that have some background in human thoughts before.

Although it is obvious that we will start from Earth, I am anchoring these materials on the idea that it starts from within the Asteroid Belt.

The Asteroid Belt as a collection of materials, probably has everything needed in raw materials, but may be a bit short on some Gases such as Nitrogen, or Noble Gasses.

So, let's do a distributed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_K._O%27Neill and friends concepts.

Let's make 365 "Parent Stations" (Gender Neutral), in a ring within the Asteroid belt. This is just a number, which may allow labeling each station a unique identity in the ring based on count or the days of the year for Earth. Arbitrary, but a nomination to start with.

Post #50 has some reference materials: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 31#p231531
Quote:

How far out is the asteroid belt? https://nineplanets.org/asteroid-belt/
Image Quote:
Quote:
The asteroid belt is located between the planets Mars and Jupiter, and is about 2.2 to 3.2 Astronomical Units (AU) from the Sun. This is somewhere between 329-478 million km away from the Sun. The space between each of the asteroids is over 600,000 miles.
The Nine Planets
+1
So that does not look too bad for what I have in mind.
-Earth/Moon cyclers would have a cycle of 2 Earth years, and if I understand, could almost reach the Asteroid Belt and pass by the Earth Moon. (Unlike a Earth/Moon<>Mars cycler they would not normally pass by Mars.
-Mars/Phobos/Deimos cyclers would have a cycle two times that of a Mars year and would probably penetrate fairly well into the asteroid belt. So, 687 days * 2 = 1,374 days. (1.88 Earth Years to 3.76 Earth Years)
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/p … stice.html
So, a planet with its moons will serve as the perihelion station and there would be two aphelion stations, near or in the asteroid belt for each excentric cycler.

Ceres orbit is 4.6 Earth years
Vesta orbit is 3.63 Earth years

So, if we choose an AU distance that has a year twice that of Mars, then the ring will orbit just outside of the orbit of Vesta. That might be pretty good as over time Vesta would be rotating slowly around the ring of Parent Stations slightly outside of its solar orbit.

What is the distance of Vesta from the sun?
https://www.spacereference.org/asteroid/4-vesta-a807-fa
Quote:

179,738,054 kilometers
Vesta is an asteroid that orbits the sun every 1,330 days (3.64 years), coming as close as 2.15 AU and reaching as far as 2.57 AU from the sun. It is about 525.4 kilometers in diameter and is one of the largest objects, comparable in size to Great Britain. The distance of Asteroid 4 Vesta from Earth is currently 179,738,054 kilometers, equivalent to 1.201475 Astronomical Units. Light takes 9 minutes and 59.5416

So, not a completely circular orbit, at times it may approach or cross the ring of "Parent Stations".

Vesta is thought to be Terrestrial in nature and experienced volcanism. It has Carbonaceous dust on its surface, and some evidence of very temporary liquid water on its surface: https://www.space.com/28352-huge-astero … flows.html

Vesta might be a good place to construct the "Parent Stations" initially and other asteroids passing by may make contributions. It may be possible to have a setup to construct large chunks of "Parent Station" on Vesta and then to put them into orbit but various methods.

And Elliptical Stations might originate in a similar manner, but then go into "Active Orbits", sort of doing a Repeated Active Boomerang inward towards a more sunward Perihelion.

Solid Propellants such as Iron, Aluminum, and Silicon, might be delivered to them by electric propelled robot freighters from the Asteroid Belt.

Also Sunlight and the Solar wind could allow for active orbits, or orbits that can continually shift. Gravitational slingshots might also be a means of active propulsion, but collision hazards may make not as desired for Earth/Moon.

Being able to modify a repeating orbit, Aphelion alignments with "Parent Stations" could be shifted. Also, Flyby of certain planet/moons at Perihelion might be shifted to make better near passes.

Of course, the number of "Parent Stations" and "Elliptical Stations" could be increased a great deal, so for Earth there could be multiple stations passing by each day.

So, you could hook a ride on one of them to go out to the "Parent Stations". If wanting to depart from an Elliptical Station, you would have had to plan ahead to be on one which was planned to pass by the Earth/Moon.

And I suppose Mars could be Shoehorned into this setup with Elliptical Stations that would not go so far inward towards the sun.

The Asteroid Belt could probably supply water, Carbon, and some Nitrogen to the Parent Stations. It is said that even in the inner Asteroid Belt, 40% or so of the objects are Carbonaceous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-type_asteroid
Quote:

C-type (carbonaceous /ˌkɑːrbəˈneɪʃəs/) asteroids are the most common variety, forming around 75% of known asteroids.[1] They are volatile-rich and distinguished by a very low albedo because their composition includes a large amount of carbon, in addition to rocks and minerals. They have an average density of about 1.7 g/cm3.
They lie most often at the outer edge of the asteroid belt, 3.5 au (520 million km; 330 million mi) from the Sun, where 80% of the asteroids are of this type, whereas only 40% of asteroids at 2 au (300 million km; 190 million mi) from the Sun are C-type.[2] The proportion of C-types may actually be greater than this, since C-types are much darker (and hence less detectable) than most other asteroid types, except for D-types and others that lie mostly at the extreme outer edge of the asteroid belt.

"Parent Stations" may "Kiss", that is they may be in two parts and may split apart from time to time to have each section mate with a section from another "Parent Station". Of course, then propulsion is needed. This would be to reduce the forming of "Teams", where they fall into primitive motivations of identity conflict from isolation from each other.

Also, it should be reasonably possible to have solar powered ships that could travel from one Parent Station to another.

-Solar Photon
-Solar Wind
-Solar Electric Reaction, expelling propellant materials.

How such an asteroid belt civilization might link with the planets culturally and economically, is requiring more consideration.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-11 10:10:18)

Void · 2025-05-11 15:59:18

Vesta may have stored water ice after all, it seems. Not only have they seen evidence of very temporary mud flows from impactors, about 12 years ago it was determined that parts of the little world could have retained ice for billions of years under its soil.

https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-bel … -on-vesta/
Quote:

Scientists Believe Water Ice May Exist on the Giant Asteroid Vesta
By Elizabeth Zubritsky, Goddard Space Flight Center; Jia-Rui Cook, Jet Propulsion LaboratoryJanuary 26, 2012No Comments7 Mins Read

And the surface is partially covered in Carbonaceous materials as well. And there should be asteroids with water and Carbon passing by on a regular basis.

So, Vesta as a "Build-Shop" for Parent and other Stations seems very good for a plan.

I am estimating that Vesta will get maybe 20% of the sunlight of Earth?

At 2 AU the sunlight should be 25% Luminosity I believe.

No matter, in microgravity which can be obtained near Vesta, thin mirrors should be able to concentrate sunlight to provide plenty of power to beam down to Vesta, probably around the clock.

Vesta has been slammed so hard that minerals of value may have been exposed, maybe even Mantle materials almost.

I expect that it will be possible to build synthetic gravity machines on Vesta due to it's low gravity.

Vesta being near to much in the way of Carbonaceous materials, and also the Parent Stations it may build similarly near to the Carbonaceous materials, may be able to synthesize things like Plastics, Paraffin, Carbon, and Water.

These could be shipped to the inner solar system, and in my view a desire would be to deliver them to our Moon.

Crafting methods to deliver such materials to the Moon on the cheap would be desirable. Perhaps delivery to Earth/Moon orbit could be by way of Magdrive, or Neumann Drive.

I favor a Rotavator Skyhook to drop the materials to a near surface situation and then to drop the materials.
This will give lift to the Skyhook.

I am hoping that such a Skyhook could also be impacted by electron beams from the Moons surface to further give it lift. And then I am hoping that the Skyhook can have electron emitters, that will further allow it to propel itself, by ejecting electrons. It might also modify its spin by ejecting electrons.

I am basing this on the work of futuristic thinking for interstellar probes: https://www.iflscience.com/we-could-sen … gest-77525 Quote:

space-iconSpace and Physics
space-iconphysics
PUBLISHED
January 7, 2025
We Could Send A Spacecraft To Our Closest Stars With Electron Beams, Physicists Suggest
Using this method, the probe could potentially reach the star system in decades.
James Felton headshot
James Felton
Senior Staff Writer
Facebook

I don't know if this can be adapted to my desires or not.

It seems that an electron has a tiny rest mass. I am thinking that if you accelerate them to relativistic speeds their mass will increase?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_mass

I may be over my head though on this.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-11 16:36:23)

Void · 2025-05-11 20:03:34

I am interested more in the Moon and the Asteroids, but that is not to abandon Mars/Phobos/Deimos. Rather to put Mars in the center of it.

But now the Moon. I have some notions of what more could be done with Deep Space Starship, the Lunar Version.

It has occurred to me that you could lash 3 Starships together, and to the Moon. There could be some advantages/options.

The big disadvantage would be that you had to fill 3 Starships before your mission started. Perhaps it would be an annoyance.

OK here is one concept:

OK the "Shade Ship" and the "Depot Ship" are each stripped down Starships of the Lunar variety. They might not have engines or perhaps not fairings. They will not have landing legs. Like the Lunar Starship they will fly to LEO once but never land anywhere again.

The Lander Ship will be outfitted with one time landing legs including as much Carbon and/or plastics as is practical.

Probably the Lander Ship will have the only engines, but maybe the two others could have some small engines for emergency, perhaps some small Metha-lox engines from another vendor.

Then there is the question of Cargo. It could be in the fairings of the Lander Ship or attached to the Leg assembly of the lander Ship.

So, now there is a more favorable "Dry Mass" relative to Propellants possible to load, and Cargo.

When burning the engines to go to the Moon, the balance has to be trimmed by moving propellants appropriately between the 3 ships.

But during cruse, to the Moon, the Shade Ship will be emptied of liquids. Possibly its Ullage Gas will be burned in a special engine along the way to not waste it.

The shade ship will be postured to give shade to the two other ships during the mission as much as is practical.

In order to acquire orbit of the Moon, at the appropriate time, the three ships have to be rebalanced as per fluids, and the engine burn can occur.

The Lander Ship is prepped for landing and leaves the two side ships in Lunar Orbit. (The Depot Ship has extra Methane, to facilitate a return to a Lower Earth Orbit.)

If this is to land a lot of Cargo, then we hope it has a landing pad made on the surface of the Moon, so that Raptor engines can be used.

The Ship lands and cargo is unloaded.

If Oxygen production on the Moon exists then the ship is filled to the top with Oxygen. And we hope it has enough Methane to reach to orbit and get to the two other ships. (The Depot Ship has extra Methane, to facilitate a return to a Lower Earth Orbit.)

Ideally the three ships are reassembled in orbit of the Moon, and the propellant resources are sufficient to return to a refilling orbit much closer to Earth.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2025-05-11 20:38:34)

Void · Yesterday 14:35:09

So, now if we have Mars embedded in this travel structure involving Earth/Moon and the Asteroid Belt, it is in the Middle more or less.

I have significant interest in trying to work in harmony with what Mars wants to be. It is an icy world and a freeze dried surface.

Enormous sub-surface ice slabs and Robots............

These ice slabs are supposed to be all over Mars, I suppose mid latitudes and upper latitudes more so.
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-resear … ter-liquid Quote:

Vast, Thick Ice Sheets Have Been Found Buried All Over Mars
Space
11 January 2018
ByBen Guarino, Washington Post

Image Quote:
Quote:

The slope rises as high as London's Big Ben tower. Beneath its ruddy layer of dirt is a sheet of ice 300 feet (90 metres) thick that gives the landscape a blue-black hue. If such a scene sounds otherworldly, it is. To visit it, you'll have to travel to Mars.
Planetary scientists located eight of these geological features, called scarps, on the Red Planet. An analysis of the scarps revealed that thick ice hides just below the surface.

Of course I am interested in an expanding tunnel system in the ice for Robots to "Live" in and "Work" in. And buildings on the surface to host solar power and to serve as radiators to keep the tunnel systems cool.

The tunnels and buildings on the surface will only be partly pressurized.

Gutters, rivers, streams, sewers can be on the grounding line under some sort of thermal insulating flooring.

And yes this could be connected to shelters suitable for humans.

More later perhaps.............

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 14:46:16)

Void · Yesterday 17:32:35

So, if a civilization dominantly robots and as a minority humans can exist on Mars, will there be a "Robot Room Temperature"?

Our room temperature a bit below 20 C, or 68 F, working well for humans, is not necessarily the best for robots and for robots on Mars.

I might nominate -10 C, but we don't know yet. But it has to be compatible with things like battery chemistry.

Another thing about robots is that they could hibernate when conditions made it a merit.

While Humans can reduce consumption of some things in adverse conditions robots could do so much more in the case where energy was restricted. So, when robots were operational, resources to keep human alive during hibernation, would have to have been stockpiled.

Tunneling in the ice slabs is a way to both gain water, and upgraded space. It would also be a way to get access to minerals.

Of course there would be various kinds of upgraded spaces. I think that perhaps most robot spaces will only be marginally pressurized. Such pressurization might be just enough to allow some amount of liquid water phase. But this would depend on the industrial processes you were working with. And the pressurization would probably be with raw Martian atmosphere.

So, if you dug a tunnel on the grounding line, could you plaster it with a freezable mix with fibers mixed in. Then if that froze would it have some of the strength of Pykrete?

Warmer spaces might most easily be built in two different ways. You might burry a dome in ice and then build buildings inside of that. In that case you might have a pressure like 2/3 bar.

But you could also have vaults in the stone under the ice. Particularly if it was created from Volcanic Ash.

Cappadocia comes to mind: https://sometimes-interesting.com/derin … appadocia/

So, volcanic Ash or sandstone covered in an ice slab of fair thickness (Quote: )

I am sure we could finish those spaces much more nicely than was done in history.

Here we are then:

The cone vault might reject excess heat into the stone under it, for the case of a sand storm, so that heat would keep flowing into the habitat.

The ice tunnel is slightly pressurized, and hosts a tent that protects a gutter that water can flow though as a liquid.

The ice tunnels can reject heat from themselves either to habitat space, or to some of the surface buildings that will double as radiators. You might use air compression and decompression to do a refrigeration.

This pressure calculator can help to determine what pressures are needed or desired: https://endmemo.com/chem/vaporpressurewater.php

According to it, to have water in the gutter at 10 degrees C, you need a pressure of 12.2118 mbar. But probably your water will be much closer to freezing.

So, gutters would be a way to transport water from new tunnel building.

Inside of the vaults in stone you could use Acetate and Oxygen to grow food, perhaps with just a little lighting.

Some surface buildings could be proper greenhouses/sky observatories where humans could have sunlight on their faces.

But in the Mars of my imagination humans will be wealthy enough that they could live in habitats orbiting Mars part of the time. So, maybe you would skip a Mars winter to go live in the sky for a number of months.

Ending Pending

This particular ice slab is the size of Texas and California: https://www.space.com/30502-mars-giant- … y-mro.html Quote:

A giant slab of ice as big as California and Texas combined lurks just beneath the surface of Mars between its equator and north pole, researchers say.

Quote:

The ice the scientists found measures 130 feet (40 m) thick and lies just beneath the dirt, or regolith, or Mars.
"It extends down to latitudes of 38 degrees. This would be like someone in Kansas digging in their backyard and finding ice as thick as a 13-story building that covers an area the size of Texas and California combined," Bramson said.

So that slab is a little thinner but still plenty thick.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Yesterday 18:31:48)

Void · Today 09:42:15

So, many have dismissed the Moon as useless or a distraction.

However if you look at the Earth/Luna as a binary world if not Planet, at least, we know that resources like what we call intelligent communication can be shared between the two. So, due to a more favorable latency, the Moon is not a dry barren rock but a rock with useful interconnection to the Earth in regards communications. Computers and humans can communicate with the same from the Earth and on the Moon as well.

So, the Moon has this resource much more than any other world except Earth itself.

On the question of local volatile resources, it is rather questionable why such Lunar resources should be consumed for a one-time use. The Notion of post Apollo is you are going to get water so that you can make rocket fuel and go other places. That is fine, should Oxygen be considered, but not so fine as concerns Hydrogen.

Other possible uses are to sustain living things on the Moon. The ISS recycles water at a 98% efficiency, I believe, but I think SpaceX is going to try to tighten that up even more.

Water as a coolant is a possibility, either expendable or recycled. But it is subject to expansion on freezing and is too precious to just expend in a one time use in most cases.

The import of Carbon to make steel, has been considered by some. That is sort of a one-time use, but probably worthwhile to some extent. Also, though CO2 may be a very useful coolant, so might be worth importing, although their may be some to be had on the Moon.

It has been said that their is some small amount of Nitrogen embedded in Lunar Regolith, and that that might be retrieved to support agriculture. I suppose maybe.

Estimates for amounts of water on the Moon, are variable. We have to be careful, the fungus among us, seems to always seek to distort information, envy driven mob behaviors, would rather see us consumed and held down. They either want our existence to expire, or they want us subordinated under them.

I think though that without too much in imports, the Moon could probably support a vast robot civilization with a few humans on the Moon, provided humans can be heathy there.

In the concept of imports to the Moon, of course Earth comes first, and https://www.youtube.com/@Anthrofuturism has suggested Carbon imports for Steel.

I have described ideas as well about tapping the Asteroid Belt to get imports to the Moon, to make it more fertile. This is not any more wrong than to think you could irrigate crops with melt water from mountain ice on Earth. But it does require a much greater reach of technology.

Until the network I have suggested is set up, if ever, can we hope to import stuff from Mars/Phobos/Deimos, to our Moon and also to Earth/Moon orbits?

I think it might be a reasonable precursor to tapping the Asteroid Belt. Phobos and Deimos resemble asteroids, and have at least Iron, Aluminum, Silicon, and Oxygen to offer. Useful transfer substances can be Wood, Plastics, Paraffin, and water, I think.

This is an optimistic view of the two moons: https://science.nasa.gov/mars/moons/facts/
Quote:

Like Earth's Moon, Phobos and Deimos always present the same face to their planet. Both are lumpy, heavily-cratered and covered in dust and loose rocks. They are among the darker objects in the solar system. The moons appear to be made of carbon-rich rock mixed with ice and may be captured asteroids.

Less optimistic views are that they are simply Mars rock flung up into orbit by a object colliding with Mars. There is some tiny suspicion that those who seek to keep us captive may not have provided a totally accurate story on this.

But, I am willing to be disappointed, or we might be delighted. We need to know.

I have just given the opinion in the prior post: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 92#p231592 that robot housing may be quite inexpensive on Mars. So, if you can have almost infinite Artificial Labor on Mars, you should be able to make the substances that are wanted on the Moon, from volatiles existing on Mars.

And unlike Earth SSTO from Mars should be practical.

Once in orbit, materials from Phobos and Deimos should be useful to propel robot ships to deliver these substances to Earth/Moon orbits.

The methods to lower those substances to the Moons surface could involve rockets and maybe even Rotavators.

So, with almost infinite Robot Artificial Labor, the Moon can be "Irrigated" with materials from Earth, then Mars/Phobos/Deimos, and finally the Main Asteroid Belt. And maybe eventually from deeper space such as Callisto.

If we are able to learn how to use a Rotavator to lower materials onto the Moons surface, then it should be possible to learn how to use the device to lift materials off of the Moon.

A Rotavator would be better than a Mass Driver as it will have a materials lowering function possible.

So, the Moon could become extremely valuable to a solar system civilization.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Today 10:34:06)

Void · Today 11:31:59

I have been thinking of substances that could be exported to the Moon, from a place like Mars, and also from places further out in the solar system. With the discovery that plants might in part grow from Acetate and Oxygen, the idea of growing an export crop on Mars, and other places comes to mind.

Bamboo has come up, but it has a lot of void spaces inside of it.
Hay Bales are compact, but then you have to grow hay.

I am now thinking Hydrilla, once again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrilla
Image Quote:
Quote:

Hydrilla (waterthyme) is a genus of aquatic plant, usually treated as containing just one species, Hydrilla verticillata, though some botanists divide it into several species. It is native to the cool and warm waters of the Old World in Asia, Africa and Australia, with a sparse, scattered distribution; in Australia from Northern Territory, Queensland, and New South Wales.[2][3][4]
The stems grow up to 1–2 m long. The leaves are arranged in whorls of two to eight around the stem, each leaf 5–20 mm long and 0.7–2 mm broad, with serrations or small spines along the leaf margins; the leaf midrib is often reddish when fresh. It is monoecious (sometimes dioecious), with male and female flowers produced separately on a single plant; the flowers are small, with three sepals and three petals, the petals 3–5 mm long, transparent with red streaks. It reproduces primarily vegetatively by fragmentation and by rhizomes and turions (overwintering), and flowers are rarely seen.[3][5][6][7] They have air spaces to keep them upright.
Hydrilla has a high resistance to salinity compared to many other freshwater aquatic plants.

It is a vascular plant, I believe a land plant that adapted to be in water.

This material might be dried, baled, and shipped from Mars to other locations. It most likely will contain some Carbon, some Hydrogen, some Oxygen, and I hope a bit of Nitrogen.

It is edible, so on Mars, it could be stored, freeze dried in vaults of some kind against the dangers of starvation.

And you could grow mushrooms on it, so in your starvation prevention you would have that option as well, provided you had Oxygen for it.

A hydrilla farm on Mars, avoids much of the effort to make things like Plastics and Paraffin. But Hydrilla will be harder convert to propellants. But that may not matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry%27s_law

This may seem silly to some but don't forget that we may be approaching an almost infinite Artificial Labor pool, that could tap energy sources, and that the moons Phobos and Deimos might provide propellants for things like Magdrive or Neumann Drive.

In shipping Hydrilla Bales, it would just be a matter of extended time that humans would not do well with, but an electric driven ship, might take a few years to travel from Mars/Phobos/Deimos orbits, to Earth/Lunar orbits.

If you have well directed labor of almost infinite amount with relatively small needs, it is not as ridiculous as it might seem.

If you could invent a Rotavator to drop Hydrilla Bales onto the Moon that might work, or you might make a rocket that runs on propellants derived from Hydrilla, and drop the bales from it into a Shadowed Crater. It is possible that some of the exhaust from the rocket would be captured in such a cold crater.

But I prefer the rotavator idea. Then if you could also use the rotavator to bring Lunar materials to orbit you would have much you could build things from in the Earth/Moon subsystem.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Today 11:58:13)

Void · Today 12:17:57

Here then is evidence of the emergence of Artificial Labor as required in the materials of the previous post: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/me … r-AA1Ek22H Quote:

Meet Atlas: The Robot That’s Replacing Humans on Hyundai’s Assembly Line
Story by Autopost • 6d •
2 min read

Quote:

Hyundai Motor Group will automate 40% of assembly at Metaplant America in Savannah using its humanoid robot, Atlas. The move seeks to boost local output, uphold price competitiveness, and expand its North American market share.
Hyundai plans to deploy Atlas, its self-developed humanoid robot, to handle tasks like lifting parts and attaching vehicle doors. Additional specialized robots will support parts assembly, transport, line monitoring, and body inspection to boost manufacturing efficiency.
Hyundai expects to automate nearly half of its assembly processes, including stamping and welding, which will cut costs and enhance quality.
Metaplant America forms part of Hyundai’s 21 billion USD U.S. investment plan over four years. The plant will start with an annual capacity of 100,000 EVs and hybrids, expandable to 500,000. Hyundai also plans to expand its Alabama plant, targeting a 70% increase in U.S. production—from 700,000 units in 2024 to 1.2 million.

It can be noticed that America does not have to do all the heavy lifting, actually maybe only some of the heavy lifting to make these things real in realty.

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VRDGAR

And they are rather expensive robots.

Optimus will likely do other types of tasks. This Atlas looks like it is pretty rugged for industrial needs.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Today 12:24:07)

Void · Today 16:06:59

Previously I was avoiding the use of sunlight to grow something like Hydrilla. However, I feel that there are places on Mars where it might be more practical to use sunlight. That does not prevent the use of Acetate and Oxygen as well though.

Here is some suitable reference materials for a special location on Mars for it: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 73#p231373
Quote:

So, then a side view as I understand Korolev from it's picture:

Collections of Heliostats perched on the crater wall as shown, could send concentrated light down into the "Protected Notch".

In this "Library", https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 13#p190313 , are included some methods to deal with things such as UV light.

For UV light:

Dealing with UV light on Mars: (Post #1563)
This reference which discusses a 3 layer plastic inflatable dome method, includes materials from SeaDragon:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 08#p218208
Another UV reference:
Dealing with UV light on Mars:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 06#p204806

So, this situation may make it possible to concentrate light to Earth Equivalent or even more. Even more would be useful because the various window methods including water and ice windows may attenuate the light.

Obviously if you are not going to mothball this location on Mars in the winter, having some nuclear power would be very desirable.

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Optimus dancing:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/te … r-AA1EGkgV

https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/te … r-AA1EGkgV

A robot on Mars would likely suffer less damage if it fell, that is one thing to consider.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (Today 16:25:53)

Void · Today 20:30:33

Here is an old notion about a spin gravity aquaculture method in orbit:

The primary game is to keep the differential pressure on the windows where the sunlight can enter in, low.

But there are other tricks to add, but it is getting late. Maybe another day.

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