Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

Void · 2024-07-16 21:39:06

A shell for a Bubble World may not have to be spherical:

This is extremely rudimentary at this point.

But this one may hope to point to the sun for solar power and at the same time collect the solar wind into its interior using some type of vacuum pump, perhaps using Helium shot out of an electric rocket to push it through pores in the shell on the sun facing side. Then if Ozone were supplied into the shell the hope would be to react the protons with it inside of the shell to make water or Hydroxyl, and so convert the interior thin atmosphere into water vapor and Helium which could then be processed. A small number of other elements may be collected this way also.

The leeward side of the shell may collect a (-) charge as the electrons of the solar wind will jump into the wake the shell would cause as the solar wind impacts it. The (+) ions being heavier cannot enter it so fast.

I am hoping it is possible to flow collected electrons from the cone to the mirror which should have a more positive charge. I don't know if that can work, but this perhaps could be a power supply and perhaps a way to deflect the whole device in space.

It is highly probable that it will be desired to have the encompassing shell have a different spin than the little world it holds within.

So, that is not yet worked out very well as for how to do it.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-16 21:47:48)

Void · 2024-07-17 09:30:13

I suppose regarding the previous post, magnetics and mechanical coupling might be what would perhaps work. So, then the shell may pivot on the mass of the object it held within it.

So, I added the idea of flaps on hinges, basically sails, which might react to protons or the solar wind. The thrust would be tiny but over time might add up to some useful factor.

For Phobos or Deimos, you could open and close them for portions of an orbit around Mars, to raise or lower the orbit of the assembly. They could be much larger than I have shown.

Magnetic solar wind sailing methods might also be employed, of some sort to selectively block or allow to pass better the solar wind to also change the orbit of the moonlets.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-17 09:53:26)

Void · 2024-07-17 10:25:09

Just some slight modifications, additions.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-17 10:25:46)

Void · 2024-07-17 13:36:18

The shell of the bubble as I see it would not be that thick, at least not in its early forms.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-17 13:36:47)

Void · 2024-07-19 09:25:32

I am interested in creating a new version based on a notion for making habitats on the surface of Mars:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 13#p225213
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 18#p225218

So, in this case radiation protection thickness may be desired. I am thinking of sintering regolith to build the structure.

This structure may be inside of a thin shell structure so that if impacts occur most of the resulting "Chips" and "Fragments" may stay inside.

Mirrors may convey desirable photons into the interior though the end windows.

Nested subplatforms could have artificial gravity from Microgravity to 1 g perhaps, with some with very low g force.

Having the main bubble non-spinning would allow orientation to the sun. The interior nested objects might then spin as desired.

While the cylinder may be ceramic in nature, it might also have tensile bands wrapped around it to give foundations for interior spinning devices.

All this could be altered in many ways to accommodate alternate preferences.

I am thinking of this possible for rubble pile space objects such as Phobos, Deimos and many smaller asteroids.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-19 10:24:51)

Void · 2024-07-19 11:04:09

Continuing from the prior post, it also seems to me that "Muddy" worlds like Ceres and Callisto could sponsor methods like the above.

You could even have pressurized "Aquariums" inside. If you had a saltwater aquarium, at polar water temperatures of Earth. the vapor pressure could be very low.

https://endmemo.com/chem/vaporpressurewater.php

I calculated 5.2256 mbar at -2 degrees C. So, such an enclosure would not need to hold much differential pressure but might host photosynthesis. The aquarium would be hosted inside of the cylinder.

But of course why do that?

Maybe it would be better to have a spinning ring filled with water.

water at 20 degrees C, would need a lid on top that could hold 23.2977 mbar. And depending on g force and depth of water, you could achieve 1/3, 2/3, to 1 bar of pressure at the bottom of the enclosures water column.

Water vapor leaking from the spinning ring could be recovered with a vacuum pump from the inside of the cylinder as the ring would be nested inside of the cylinder.

At 20 degrees C and with spin gravity water column pressurization, humans could work using snorkel diving methods is the had a diving bell with air to come up in.

And water of course is a radiation protection, so their diving bells might as well be connected to habitats which would be immersed in the water of the spinning ring.

Phoebe around Saturn may well be a "Muddy" world, and Titan may have comet dust in its dunes so maybe Saturn could host this sort of concept also.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-19 11:16:14)

Void · 2024-07-19 11:33:02

The scheme may very well work for Mars/Phobos/Deimos.

While I might suggest a surround for the moonlets like this, from post #26:

Materials from Phobos/Deimos/Mars may allow the building of these as well:

Basically, a ceramic cylinder which might be wrapped in a Carbon net and may have a thin metal shell around it.

You may look at prior posts to discover some suggested things to nest within.

It should be very possible to turn these things into energy producing platforms as well, and to beam power down to the Martian surface.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-19 11:38:19)

Void · 2024-07-19 19:41:46

I am still interested in the emerging conversation about "Dark Comets". There is an impression that many of these emerge from the inner asteroid belt and may have fossil ice from long ago. This material ( https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 55#p225155 ), suggests how it may be possible that Phobos may retain ice inside if the solar wind were contributing water to the moonlet.

I think that it could be even more likely to occur in the asteroid belt, as those are colder.

If Dark Comets are real and significant, the bubble shell methods might be a good deal for working with those. And if some have water and some may have hydrated minerals and Carbon from bygone eras, then bubble worlds that interreact and consume multiple asteroids may be profitable locally to a Bubble Shell World(s).

I am currently pondering how it is that these little worlds wander. Is it random about the solar system with icy ones moving inward and drying out and then perhaps moving outward in the solar system? Or do some comets have some sort of pathway to move inward to the solar system, alter their orbits to be more inward, and then dry out to become Dark Comets? Is it possible that dried out comets get parked in the asteroid belt after coming in from further out?

Some of the movement of Dark Comets is from gravitational nudging, but some apparently is thought to be thrust from evaporating volatiles in the cores. I have been wondering if the orientation of the tails apparently being set by the solar wind, may allow an orbital deceleration as the gasses of the tail may expand in the UV light. But I surely do not know.

For Dark Comets, the tail, (Which is not observable) will be expected to be more present after the Perihelion than before it, I think.

My logic is that the ice being deep in the core of the object and the ice then being covered with dry rubble, then there would be a lag in time before the heating or Perihelion would be felt down deep enough to sublimate ice.

If this somehow has some truth to it perhaps similar might happen, but father out for gasses that vaporize at lower temperatures. I am reaching very hard to make myself a fool, but perhaps objects come from very far out, shedding various gasses before they get down to water ice/vapor inside of the "Snow Line" for water ice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_tail
Image Quote:
While the depiction may be truer for a "Comet" as we are familiar with, I am going to venture that with a time delay for heating at the presumed ice mass deep in the object, there will be less "Tail" in the orbital period before Perihelion than the orbital period after it. This may by way of the shaping of the tail by the Solar Wind and the ionization of the tail by the UV of sunlight create a differential thrust altering the orbit.

The above is a dangerous venture offering me a chance to be very wrong, but I am giving it a trial so that it can be thought about a bit more.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-19 20:06:23)

Void · 2024-07-20 08:34:10

something to think about. I am sure I am not sure of the results of a possible "Left"/"Right" asymmetrical plume production. As "Dark Comets" don't seem to reveal their plume, even a picture of reality is not available yet.

So, I will leave it there for the moment.

Done

Void · 2024-07-20 11:28:42

I think that some of the factors that are interesting are:
-Dry Regolith on top of an icy core could really be insulating if rubble fluffy and filled with vacuum voids.
-A core inside of that could be cooled by evaporation, ice to vapor.
-The solar wind may moisturize such an object and perhaps retard the evaporation inside it.

-If a comet did have an orbit that went out beyond the snow line, it might accumulate water ice from the solar wind's interaction with oxygen in the regolith.

Just some thoughts.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-20 11:30:06)

Void · 2024-07-25 10:22:22

Because of reading, my attention is on Ariel the moon of Uranus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Uranus
Image Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_(mo … _structure
image Quote:
Quote:

Size comparison of Earth, the Moon, and Ariel.

Image Quote:

https://phys.org/news/2024-07-carbon-ox … ariel.html
Previously I thought that these moons were only covered in water ice. It looks like they may have dust and CO2 and CO and I think I also read Ammonia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_(moon)
Quote:

The second compound identified by its feature at wavelength of 2.2 μm on Ariel is ammonia, which is distributed more or less homogeneously over the surface. The presence of ammonia may indicate that Ariel was geologically active in recent past. See more

I will presume comet dust has been deposited into the ice as well. The moons are dark apparently.

So, a useful distribution of materials may be available.
Energy sources could be nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, orbital energy cutting lines of force of the magnetic field of Uranus, and even solar, but of course solar at Uranus is getting pretty sketchy even with concentrating mirrors, I feel.

So, these look rather good for future shell and bubble methods of habitation in the orbits of Uranus.

If an ocean exists, I think it would be cold and salty with Ammonia dissolved into it.

So, if the crust and lower layers do have a distribution of materials, it may be possible to do a form of strip mining of these moons all the way down to any oceans, and even then, down to the cores and into the cores.

Any evidence of life in the history of that moon should show itself during that effort. But it does not sound like the water would be great for supporting most Earth life that we know of.

As far as valuing a world, several things are important. If it is too small for an atmosphere such as terrestrial worlds might hold, then being of a larger size could be a penalty. These small worlds might be rather good in their own ways.

Strip mining has a hateful reaction from some ignorant people I expect, but in this case "Strip Mining" could involve melting ice and dome covered lakes, and letting the solids fall to the bottom while collecting the produced gasses. Then collecting the solids.

From there you would build Bubble, Shell, and also Caliban's water worlds with materials extracted.

A great deal of the construction could be highly automated. Isaac Arthur has a new video out on a high level of robotics/automation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwSkIL6aQis
Quote:

31:39
Self-Repairing Machines
4.5K views
3 hours ago

This video again can have some value here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjwtdE7GWmA
Quote:

Megastructures: Hollow Earth
Isaac Arthur
787K subscribers
65K views 4 weeks ago

Actually, Miranda might be the first moon to work with as it is smaller and likely does not have an ocean. So, access to its core materials will come sooner than for any of the other moons. It may or may not have Nitrogen though.

Done for now.

Last edited by Void (2024-07-25 11:44:06)

Void · 2024-07-26 11:00:31

I feel that I want to transplant a copy of a couple of posts from elsewhere to here:
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 83#p225383
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 87#p225387

The above is primarily about the discovery of Hydrated Minerals, Salts on a portion of our Moon, by a probe from China.

I have previously posted about concepts that attempt to harvest mass from the solar wind. In these salts, I see a potential condensation advantage.

A bubble in space made of constructed matter, could be rather thin, but it does not have to be. It might host solar power methods on a sunward side, and cooling processes may be favorable on the "Far Side".

Just this might allow the solar wind to impact and pile up on one side of the "Bubble". My hope is to then pump it into the interior of the "Bubble", perhaps using a Helium Ion Rocket Engine pumping process.

Previously I had considered putting Ozone inside of this Bubble as well. The intention is to hope that the protons collected would react with the Ozone to produce Hydroxyl and Water molecules. All of that may be good.

But I see also that perhaps blocks of salts might collect the water produced.

Then you could periodically bake these salt blocks/bricks in an oven to release the moisture for collection. Then the salt blocks/bricks would be reused. If the reactive Ozone or some other Oxidizer could deplete the Protons of Hydrogen then a bulk of Helium would build up, and that could be further pumped for collection.

Helium, I believe is roughly 8% of the solar wind by proportions I have read about.

Helium is a valuable substance, and of course water is very valuable in many places in space environments.

Done

The device might also be augmented with magnetic fields.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-07-26 11:21:28)

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#26 2024-07-16 21:39:06

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#27 2024-07-17 09:30:13

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#28 2024-07-17 10:25:09

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#29 2024-07-17 13:36:18

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#30 2024-07-19 09:25:32

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#31 2024-07-19 11:04:09

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#32 2024-07-19 11:33:02

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#33 2024-07-19 19:41:46

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#34 2024-07-20 08:34:10

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#35 2024-07-20 11:28:42

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#36 2024-07-25 10:22:22

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

#37 2024-07-26 11:00:31

Re: Hill Sphere and Orphan Shells (And Bubble Worlds).

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