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#1 2011-12-13 04:24:56

karov
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2004-06-03
Posts: 953

Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

Hi all,

See: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/12/desalt … gfuture%29

So, approx. 30-40 million km3 of halite ( salt rock ) of average 1.5 tonnes per m3 of density.

More than enough to build another Eurasia of prime real estate / land / in ( say ) the Pasific.

Move the ocean bottom on top, properly insulate the halite from the water, sculpture during construction the best possible terrain ( predominantly flat and low ) and coast line ( highly fractal with lots of bays, capes and nearby islands ) and thus using available substance "terraform" huge patch of the Earth's surface.

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#2 2011-12-16 15:40:20

JoshNH4H
Member
From: Pullman, WA
Registered: 2007-07-15
Posts: 2,546
Website

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

I can't help but wonder what effect this kind of planetary engineering would have on the earth's ecosystem...


-Josh

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#3 2011-12-21 11:36:41

karov
Member
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2004-06-03
Posts: 953

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

As designed I recon.
I think that the ecosystem notion is in a large degree a myth.
The present day conditions on the Earth's surface are far from optimal both in space and time.
Most points of the Earth's solid surface are suboptimal or directly uninhabitable.
Yes, an ecosystem is quite a complex thing, but this situation puts the ecosystem management not in the field of the intractable, but in the field of the Big Data Tasks.

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#4 2022-06-29 13:58:06

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,089

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

For SpaceNut ... the post below is about a new method of desalination...

This topic by karov from Bulgaria is the only one that contained the word "desalination"

The post could certainly go in several other topics ...

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/gl … 13332.html


Desalination using wave action - from Quebec

The Weather Network

A glass of ocean water: Quebec company wins award for desalination technology

Isabella O'Malley, M.Env.Sc

Wed, June 29, 2022 at 1:43 PM

A glass of ocean water: Quebec company wins award for desalination technology

Just 0.5 per cent of the planet’s freshwater is available in lakes and other bodies of water and experts are warning that a water scarcity crisis is currently underway. Climate change is amplifying geopolitical tensions as lands turn to deserts, resulting in humanitarian crises amid the harsh conditions.

Oceans are the most plentiful water resource but salt water cannot be consumed by humans, which leads many experts to one solution: desalination.

Desalination technologies remove the salt from ocean water so it can be used as drinking water or for irrigation. Oneka Technologies, a company founded in Quebec, says that their technology provides safe drinking water with their all-in-one desalination system.

Oneka Technologies
An aerial view of the desalination system. (Oneka Technologies)

The company is quickly gaining international recognition for their technologies that purify ocean water solely powered by the motion of ocean waves. The desalination systems are placed on buoys that are anchored 200 metres to three kilometres from the shoreline, a distance that was chosen based on wave height and sightline away from the coast.

A ‘pumping’ action occurs when the buoys rise and fall with the waves, which compresses the seawater and squeezes it through a reverse osmosis membrane. This results in concentrated saltwater being released back into the ocean and clean drinking water being sent to the coastline through an underwater pipeline that is connected to the buoy.

The smallest desalination system consisting of five buoys can produce 50,000 litres per day and larger systems of 100 buoys can produce one million litres per day.

There are different sizes of desalination systems that produce various volumes of water. (An aerial view of the desalination system. (Oneka Technologies))
There are different sizes of desalination systems that produce various volumes of water. (An aerial view of the desalination system. (Oneka Technologies))
There are different sizes of desalination systems that produce various volumes of water. (An aerial view of the desalination system. (Oneka Technologies)

One point of contention with desalination is the concern about hypersaline water being released back into the ocean.

“When you look at the big picture, there's a lot of freshwater that is flowing into the ocean, namely [from] the Arctic, Antarctica, Greenland — it's all melting. There's more freshwater from ice flowing back in the ocean than there is [hypersaline water] from desalination. And unfortunately, it's not slowing down,” Dragan Tutic, CEO and founder of Oneka Technologies, said to The Weather Network.

“We did a permitting process in Florida for a project out there and local agencies deemed that the impact we're having [on the environment] was minimal,” Tutic added.

Oneka Technologies was founded in Sherbrooke, Quebec. (Oneka Technologies)

Although ocean water seems like an obviously untapped resource for drinking water, desalination processes can be expensive and energy intensive. Many desalination technologies are still in their infancy and governments are actively funding research and competitions to stimulate growth in this field.

This year, Oneka Technologies won a grand prize and overall a total of $1 million USD during the U.S. Department of Energy’s Waves to Water Prize — a competition for innovative desalination technologies.

Some of the criteria that helped Oneka Technologies secure the grand prize included: the high volume of freshwater produced, the speed and simplicity of their device assembly, and the speed and simplicity of their buoy deployment.

In addition to testing in Florida and North Carolina, a desalination system was shipped to Chile and an upcoming Canadian project is in the works. Both the Canadian government and the U.S. Department of Defense are currently exploring opportunities with Oneka Technologies, for various uses including emergency and disaster relief.

“We want to help those in need, so hopefully this can be put into great use,” said Tutic.

Thumbnail credit: Oneka Technologies

(th)

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#5 2022-06-29 21:49:46

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,850

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

I had seen one article may be this one that indicated that the power to create the cup of water was powered by the waves energy that the ocean water created. Having a system stay stationary in the wide ocean is difficult enough and then to make fresh water is quite the trick.

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#6 2022-11-04 19:28:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,089

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

For SpaceNut (when you return) .... this is the only topic that contained the word "desalination" in the title ....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/guest-opinio … 58393.html

Moving forward, nuclear powered desalination facilities could be an attractive option when combating future freshwater-related challenges in the United States and around the world. The time is now to make nuclear energy a viable desalination option to provide clean, potable water and decrease the overall cost of water for generations to come.

Congressman Byron Donalds is U.S. representative for Florida's 19th congressional district.

This article originally appeared on Fort Myers News-Press: Congressman Donalds sees freshwater future powered by nuclear energy

The author of the article at the link above makes an interesting comparison that I have not seen before...

To illustrate, desalination plants that rely on fossil fuels pay approximately 75% of their overall costs on fuel — which could increase or decrease based on the volatility of the global fossil fuel supply chain. In comparison, nuclear desalination plants only spend about 15% of their overall costs on fuel due to the inherent fact that nuclear plants don’t refuel as often as fossil fuel powered desalination facilities.

I'm not sure how well that comparison holds up when all factors are taken into consideration, but it ** is ** a starting point for comparison.

(th)

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#7 2022-11-05 07:57:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,850

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

We also know that the waste sea water is to concentrate to release back into any eco system which means if we are to waste that much energy, we might want to look at other activities to make use of what remains.

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#8 2022-11-05 08:59:33

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 7,085

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

It is actually very "Natural" for there to be "Lakes" of brine in low spots in the oceans.  But I do think that for special species, it will not hurt to have a concern.

One method for brine creation is brine rejection from polar ice freezing.  While the pools are often lethal to organisms that enter them, on the other hand the chemicals that come from them also support unique habitat for some species.

Should it be desired artificial pools of this kind could store thermal energy, as like solar salt ponds.

Peter Zeihan thinks that lots of people are going to starve, so that should make environmentalists happy.  Need less fresh water that way.

sad

Done


Done.

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#9 2022-11-05 16:48:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,850

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

Ultra-High Recovery 3 Stage Seawater Desalination3-stage-recovery-2.png

Desalination Has a Waste Problem For every 10 gallons that enters, these types of facilities produce roughly 4 gallons of drinkable freshwater.

Brine is generally defined as water with a salt concentration higher than 50 parts per thousand, though some brines can be several times saltier. Average salinity of the world’s oceans is roughly 35 parts per thousand.

The Persian Gulf, because of high evaporation rates and little freshwater inflow, has salt concentrations between 40 and 45 parts per thousand. The UAE’s Environment Agency says that waters near desalination plant outfalls, where brine is discharged, can be another 5 to 10 parts per thousand higher.

A review of resource recovery from seawater desalination brine

The reviewed products are sodium salts (NaCl, NaOH, Na2SO4), lithium salts (LiCl, Li2CO3), magnesium salts (struvite, Mg(OH)2, MgSO4, MgO), calcium salts (CaSO4, CaCO3) and other minerals (U, Rb, Cs).

Turning desalination waste into a useful resource

Currently, the world produces more than 100 billion liters (about 27 billion gallons) a day of water from desalination, which leaves a similar volume of concentrated brine. Much of that is pumped back out to sea, and current regulations require costly outfall systems to ensure adequate dilution of the salts. Converting the brine can thus be both economically and ecologically beneficial, especially as desalination continues to grow rapidly around the world. “Environmentally safe discharge of brine is manageable with current technology, but it’s much better to recover resources from the brine and reduce the amount of brine released,

The method of converting the brine into useful products uses well-known and standard chemical processes, including initial nanofiltration to remove undesirable compounds, followed by one or more electrodialysis stages to produce the desired end product.  The approach can be used to produce sodium hydroxide, among other products. Otherwise known as caustic soda, sodium hydroxide can be used to pretreat seawater going into the desalination plant.

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#10 2022-11-05 18:08:44

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,089

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

For SpaceNut re #9 ... thank you for finding and posting the link(s) and text about desalination.

The point that the author(s) make about the wisdom of collecting ** all ** the valuable parts of sea water (or as much as practical) is one I'm hoping others will pursue.  The ** ideal ** desalination facility would collect every atom and prepare it for market by investing whatever energy is necessary.

All atoms are valuable in refined form, and anyone preparing purified/concentrated chemicals for market will have invested energy.

A point I did not see in the excerpts you posted was the value of deuterium, which (in my opinion) should be collected for eventual use in fusion reactors. Deuterium has other uses now, but the ** real ** benefit will come when fusion plants are able to use it on a commercial scale.

(th)

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#11 2022-11-06 17:36:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,850

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

About 1 out of every 5,000 hydrogen atoms in seawater is in the form of deuterium. The natural abundance of deuterium in the ocean is approximately 156.25 ppm, which is one atom in 6,400 of hydrogen. But to gain any of it you will need to use electrolysis to get it in its purest form.

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#12 2022-11-06 18:03:51

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,089

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

For SpaceNut re #11

Thanks (much) for picking up on this opportunity for those who will (I hope) be developing large scale sea desalination facilities to meet expected human need for fresh water in the years and decades ahead.

The figures you quoted look about right to me, from postings in the Phoenix topic.  The process of making fresh water from sea water, and collecting all the atoms that are flowing along for the ride, will increase options to collect Deuterium. 

A complete solution to provide fresh water and pure materials collected from sea water would require investment in an energy source such as a fission power plant.  The market value of materials that have been isolated from other atom types is the consideration that ( I have faith without really knowing) would justify investment in such a facility. To the best of my knowledge, no such facility exists on Earth today.  Instead, the separate chemical and physical processes needed are ALL in operation in a variety of locations.

What I'm calling for is a single entity that brings ** all ** the separate processes under a single management structure.

(th)

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#13 2023-12-04 19:53:30

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 17,089

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

For SpaceNut ... this was the only topic with desalination in the title ...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/engi … 00087.html

MIT research - swirling salt water improves desalination

The Cool Down
Engineers develop ‘innovative’ solar-powered device that turns seawater into potable water: ‘Even cheaper than tap water’
Ben Raker

Mon, December 4, 2023 at 6:00 AM EST·3 min read
98


The motion of the ocean and a little sunlight are the secrets to a new tool for desalination of saltwater into drinkable H2O that’s cheaper than water from a tap, a recent study reports.

MIT engineers and collaborators developed a prototype that takes inspiration from ocean circulation patterns called thermohaline currents and reproduced these “in [a] small box,” MIT News reports.

The device moves saltwater in eddy-like rotations in multiple stages. This swirling action, along with the sun’s heat, spurs evaporation of freshwater vapor that is then condensed and collected, leaving salt behind. The system also pushes salt through so it doesn’t clog.

The researchers published their findings in the journal Joule in late September.

According to MIT News, the invention “has a higher water-production rate and a higher salt-rejection rate than all other passive solar desalination concepts currently being tested.”

“This is a very innovative approach that effectively mitigates key challenges in the field of desalination,” Guihua Yu, a University of Texas professor not involved in the research, said. “The design is particularly beneficial for regions struggling with high-salinity water.”

Desalination is already of great interest in areas with scarce freshwater, and experts foresee creative solutions gaining importance as the world warms because of heat-trapping pollution.

According to the United Nations, about 2 billion people worldwide don’t have access to safe drinking water. Only 0.5% of Earth’s water is usable as freshwater, says the World Meteorological Organization. Sea level rise may make groundwater supplies saltier, too.

The new tech, scaled up, could provide water cheaply, and could be especially helpful to low-income communities in dry, coastal nations. Because it’s solar-powered, users could be off-grid and wouldn’t need to pay for electricity.

At the size of a small suitcase, the researchers estimate, the new system could produce about 1 to 1.5 gallons of drinking water per hour, which could make it less expensive than water from a U.S. utility.

“For the first time, it is possible for water, produced by sunlight, to be even cheaper than tap water,” Lenan Zhang, one of the MIT researchers, told MIT News.

“This opens up the possibility for solar desalination to address real-world problems,” added MIT graduate student Yang Zhong, who was a co-author of the study.

The new system builds on earlier iterations that the team described in 2020 and 2022 papers. Those previous designs also used circulation and evaporation stages but either clogged with salt or produced fresh water less quickly.

Commenters on a Reddit post about the discovery had generally positive reactions.

“Wow, this is fantastic news! This could help avoid future water conflicts, which have been increasing in recent years,” said one Redditor.

“If this didn’t come from MIT News, I’d be very skeptical instead of regular skeptical. Big if true,” said another.

Several commenters wondered about the concentrated salt left over after desalination.

The researchers acknowledge that dealing with leftover salt and scaling up the technology are challenges ahead, but they are optimistic. Insider reports that domestic and international organizations are already asking about the product.

Join our free newsletter for weekly updates on the coolest innovations improving our lives and saving our planet.

(th)

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#14 2023-12-05 10:04:31

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 7,085

Re: Continent building via Desalination of the Ocean

Interesting (th).

I am always happy to see an accumulation of skills.

This one may provide for the redistribution of power to individuals if it is what I thought I read.

I would think that this would work with other water that is not good enough for some kind of consumption, not just sea water.

Inventions that promote Individuality rather than hierarchy are very appropriate to this time period, I feel.

Thanks to God that we are no longer in the phase of the triumph of Fascism/Communism/Socialism/Authorities.

Any tool that can diminish the School Marming of society is welcome.  We are not grade schoolers anymore.

smile

Last edited by Void (2023-12-05 10:10:54)


Done.

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