New Mars Forums

Official discussion forum of The Mars Society and

You are not logged in.


Announcement: As a reader of NewMars forum, we have opportunities for you to assist with technical discussions in several initiatives underway. NewMars needs volunteers with appropriate education, skills, talent, motivation and generosity of spirit as a highly valued member. Write to newmarsmember * to tell us about your ability's to help contribute to NewMars and become a registered member.

#1 2022-08-01 07:24:59

Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Mars opportunity ideal Urban planning, Faith, Cityscapes, Transport.

I'm not really religious at all but I realized Mars must plan for many structures including Manufacturing, Education, Transport and 'Religion' or Monuments... Even a place as far away as the South Pole Antarctica had its schools, hospitals, its entertainment and gamer halls, and also its 'Antarctica Churches'. Pakistan wanted to have religion there and perhaps idiots from Russia and the USA have helped spread Islamism down as far as the South Pole, most people going to the South Pole are of religion faiths, 23% might be Agnostic or Atheist or of 'No Religion'  depending on how you count the religion of the mohammedan and jihadi faith might have been growing to as much as 2% - 3% of the South Pole human populations, Hinduism and Buddhism are numbered as less than 1 percent. Some say the Pakistani program were too busy freezing their buttocks  off in Antarctica or politically busy hanging out with bin Laden type criminals back home so eventually little was done to put mosques on the continent. The Pakistani mohammedan islamics still operate research station and one weather observatory in British Queen Maud Land and also a Norwegian-claimed Antarctic territory, perhaps after the world's most wanted terrorist was found in Pakistan then US President Obama could have removed this station from the face of the Earth but was unwilling to do so? One of the American churches has burnt down twice and its Father Priest Michael Smith has even been known to have knowledge of the multi faith and conduct Eastern Buddhist and Abhramic Bahai ceremonies. There is a Notre-Dame des Vents French for 'Our Lady of the Winds' a Roman Catholic church located in Port-aux-Français,  rectangular stained glass adorn the base of the ceilings, its proportions are based on the Golden Ratio. At the settlement of the Kerguelen Islands a statue of the Virgin Mary and Child is the church is the southernmost French Catholic place of worship, after the fall of the USSR  came Russians, the religion expands and in post Communist Russia religion spread to the South Pole, an Orthodox Church in the South Pole from a Russian monastery first volunteered to man the church year-round, there is also St. Volodymyr Chapel of Ukrainian Orthodox faith  dedicated to St. Vladimir the Great and inside an icon of St. Nicholas, there is a Norwegian Anglican Church also known as the Whalers Church.  New Zealand has a unique presence in an 'Order' from the Roman Catholic mendicant religious order for men and women with Shrine dedicated to a fallen member of the US Navy. The United States Naval Construction Battalions were better known as the Navy Seabees, there is a shrine called "Our Lady of the Snows" or  "Roll Cage Mary", it was dedicated to a United States Navy Seabee who was killed during the construction of the station. it has been maintained by Carmelite nuns in New Zealand. If you were to compare the influence of temples, the Roman Catholic church is the most dominant force in the South Pole, many Catholic Antarctic sites now exist due to the Argentine and Chilean presence on the Continent.

Some churches or temple down in the South Pole are humble sights others are visually impressive buildings that could be part of any big medieval structure or impressive buildings even in a modern city.

building Religion temples in outerspace might sound ridiculous but it could be one of those things that is needed for happiness or Language and Religion is needed for Culture Conquest or needed for Mars colonists to keep morale up.

Did you ever visit a city and think why did they build that 'White Elephant' what is with that big monstrous building and why have they put that huge barely functional bridge there? Some places on Earth although not efficient or not modern looking they make sense in their own cultural way? The cities themselves might be old growing up and expanding from an center which were once old medieval towns and ancient settlements, some of the structures are of historical and cultural value and so when developing a city to be more modern my governments and cultures take this into consideration. It is possible the many Lander by NASA, the Chinese Lander or the many Rovers by JPL won't be used as scrap but instead enter a museum and become part of the new monuments of Mars. Maybe the homes will be already built before the Mars man or Mars woman arrives and it is possible most of the Mars apartments, dorms, accommodation might be sub terrainean, the life of a human long at sea inside some Navy Submarine might be more suitable for the new Martian lifestyle of living inside subterraneous structures.

Perhaps the human kids today will one today design a better city on Mars, a new generation will have new ideas while learning traditions and lessons of history. Our children of planet Earth today from a very early life are exposed to ideas of Urban planning in the video game products of our world, from a very young age we now enter a world in Xbox or Nintendo or Playstation and can build ports where kids playing a game are exposed to ideas of shipping and planning and business and sailing and keeping products moving for food markets and entertainment franchises, these urban planned business are all done virtually inside a video game world. The Sims was a video game with strategic life simulation by Maxis Electronic Arts it involved planning suburban lawn, homes and garden, a collection of many many doll house  for adults, there were simulation for Theme Park, Carnival life, Funfair Ride and Hospital, Farming video games. There are games that go into old stories in history where you can plan during the historical expansionist days of old Roman and Chinese and other ancient Empires, there are simulations that old Civil Wars and involve space colonization but that will often involve Buck Rogers style space ships and StarWars laser guns and big battles. Another game company Mojang Studios isknown for the creation and development of Minecraft,  a 3D sandbox game developed where players interact with a fully modifiable three-dimensional environment made of blocks and entities. Kids today can see how to plan inside virtual worlds but its not just children that play these escapist games the adults today also play their for their escapism or maybe the entertainment or problem and solution puzzle value to them. People like Robert Zubrin have now been given Thanks and Credits for inspiration for certain scifi animation entertainment and ideas for video games. Cities Skylines is a  city-building video game, Oxygen Not Included is a survival simulation video game where people must survive on a make shift space colony, Surviving Mars a player must try to help survival of space colonists moving rovers, people, drones, and power resources around like chess pieces, the game received generally favorable reviews. As impressive as the sounds and visuals of a virtual world can be they are no match for the data acquired by a Professional level Yearlong real life Simulated Mars Mission on our Earth or maybe even the Moon.

There is no guarantee a dominant religion or uniting of religions would unify Mars, within islam today you have muslims going around door to door beheading each other stoning each other to death shooting each other over who is the better muslim. Christians have killed Christians for hundreds upon hundreds of years, Buddhists have fought and killed other followers of Buddha. For years upon years Hindu have betrayed other Hindu and killed them, the Jewish have killed and betrayed and murdered other Jews. Some people on Mars might follow a bad religion, a dictator religion there seemed to be a unique mix of Religion, Mysticism, Christianity and the Occult with good old Caesar and Kings of Christian European Imperialism, Führer was a German word meaning "leader" or "guide". The average kid or teenager in Germany of the 1930s and 40s might have been following some kind of Esoteric Cult of Personality Hitlerism without even knowing it. Nazism tried to write history finding the origin of the Germanic Race in the Tibet sending expeditions as far as the Chinese Himalayas,to re-write some lost German story, it would constitute a political religion, and there has also been research on the millenarian, messianic, and occult or esoteric aspects of Nazism. Wiligut's work for the SS also included the design of the Totenkopfring an occult Himmler style death's head ring that was worn by SS members, Germany and Austria have spawned many movements and practices in Western Esotericism, including Rosicrucianism, theosophy, anthroposophy and ariosophy. When Harry S. Truman 33rd President of the United States dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan did he know the second city of Nagasaki was a unique Christian city, would he also have just finished the war on the Germans dropping a bomb on a Christian German city with its churches, perhaps winning the war was of more importance? Harry S. Truman was religious when young he attend the Presbyterian Church Sunday School but he gave service to other religions and also he served as a Shabbos goy for Jewish neighbors, doing tasks for them on Shabbat, in America most Shinto Shrines seem to ave been found post War, the Shambhala Mountain Center of Colorando, the Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America, the Saipan Katori Shrine and Izumo Taishakyo Mission of Hawaii date before WW2. Christianity arrived in Japan in 1549 with the Jesuit missionary Francis Xavier for a while it went hidden and underground, churches are still being built in Japan the Roman Catholic  Immaculate Conception Cathedral, Nagasaki, what remains of the original cathedral is now on display in the Nagasaki Atomic Bomb Museum. The suicide bombing Kamikaze described as "divine wind" or "spirit wind" were a part of the Japanese Special Attack Units of military aviators who flew suicide attacks for the Empire of Japan against Allied naval vessels, they believed the Emperor of Japan to have a type of godhood and willing to suicide bomber pilot themselves into other ships in the closing stages of the Pacific campaign of World War II. Even today right now you have Orthodox people killing other followers of the Orthodox faith, Russia deaths and Ukraine deaths, different statements comming from other leaders within churches Greek Orthodox Church, Armenian Apostolic Church, Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch Jacobite Church the Assyrian Church of the East of Iraq with an an archdiocese located in India, Georgian Apostolic Orthodox Church, but a political war within Orthodoxy. There is no guarantee a lack of religion would always be peaceful, within the the Atheist Aspect of Communism you had a people willing to implement policy that would kill millions of their own people. However perhaps Mars will want its own structures, its Soviet style citizen or its religion style Temple.

It would seem for people not to get involved in fighting and war, if there was enough resources, if everyone had food, if all had something to listen to or a book or something to watch on tv, if everyone had shelter  maybe they would not go to war.

If you were to pick some major religion groupings on Earth and place them on Mars how would the new planetary settlement of Mars look?


There might be structural 'oddities' that make less sense to a person of Atheist Logic make less sense to an Alien exoplanet culture looking at Earth's religions right now. Mars could need for example something like a faith temple, it might need religions, cultural icons and religion temples needed for a Mars colony that our A.I Machines on Earth would not predict. The cultural development of Mars might be impossible to control, for example Mars might need to statues to icons or folklore or gods or other people, it might need a statue to a Paul Bunyan type Fictional folklore character, Mars might need a statue of the ideal Soviet Citizen type icon, the people of Mars over generations might become less progressive and start to look back to older ways and turn some of their people into Kings or try raise them to some godhood pharaoh Kim Jong-un  status, we do not know if they will follow some Neo version of Christianity,  there would be Mohammedans on Mars with some form of jihadi islamism,  India has a satellite around Mars so it could have Hinduism, Japan and Russia and South Korea and China have a scientific presence in space so it might have temples of Buddhism it might have another East Asian philosophy religion, it could have Atheists or Irreligion, Mars might develop its own new cults UFO religion or ufology, the people could go back to praying to Pantheons of Gods of old Folk religions, gods of sands, the sun and the caves and the ice caps, it could have temples we describe as Native Paganism, a version of Shaminism Theology. I personally tend to be agnostic or kind of open minded to the traditions of benign religion. My only real objection to religion is spreading islam or the moslem jihad faith of mahomet across the Solar System, I believe islam should be defined not as a religion but as a subversive political cult, lots of pages of islam so called holy texts of rape and slavery and war and plunder and pedophilia with their Vedic Babylon Moongod al-Lah would need to be ripped out of the Quran or Koran and other so called holy books in order to make them culturally fit in with any other society however muslims consider mahomet to be the perfect prophet and think the Quran or Koran is the perfect unquestionable book. As strange and as crazy as some religions sound it is possible zones and region must be allocated for 'Temple Worship'.

Mars might even have multiple religions of independence but similarity, the Native American religions exhibit similar story but also a great deal of diversity, largely due to the relative isolation of the different tribes and maybe the fact some Tribes fought and were in competition with each other. Mars might have nomadic people and therfore its people develop a Nomad religion, maybe similar to Roma Gypsy people or the Alaskan Native religion involves mediation between people and spirits, souls, and other immortal beings. Indian Aboriginal American culture spirituality is unique in they often had no large scale Churches, often characterized by pantheism, a strong emphasis on the importance of personal spirituality. Adherents to traditional American Indian ways do not see their spiritual beliefs and practices as a "religion" but rather, they see the whole culture and social structure as infused with 'spirituality' - an integral part of their lives and culture. The Gypsies or Romani have also been nomadic, they have collect belief from many cultures including Christian Europe, Hindu India, Arabia and Egypt, the culture of Gypsies is unique in that sometimes they are representing all types of religions including Christianity it can be very modern New-Age religion but also quite superstitious, and they often mix pagan thought with Christianity” such as belief in “charms, amulets, curses, bad luck, and ghosts.” The people of Mars might simply want some unique Temple or Structure to their Constitution, their original Settlement people or Icons made to their Founding Fathers or original Empress or first President? Sometimes one culture might dominate and colonize over another, for example when Europe explorers set out on the age of discover and exploration they also colonized Native American cultures driving them out, now with a new age of immigration you see ginat structures like the Sri Venkateswara Temple it is a Hindu temple built and located in Bridgewater, New Jersey,  include sacred images of Venkateswara, Ganesha, Ambika, Nandi, Siva Lingam, Ayyappa, Durga, Saraswati, Lakshmi Narayan,  Rama, Anjaneya, Navagraha, some old religion cultures might even pray to a vagina or a penis or an anus, this might sound strange to a Christian or other religious follower or Atheist but phallic worship or 'Sacred' woman or Vagina Worship has been part human history. Some cultures or cults even once worshiped prostitutes, some even used drugs or alcohol for gods in rituals and festivals, some vene worshiped battles and fighting, some worshiped food and harvests, the religions of the world have their own unique prayers. Today in New Jersey this is a Desi Hindu culture from the Indian Sub Continent that is arriving and replacing the original American Christian Culture of New Jersey.

Mars might have its own unique version of the Church, Pagoda, Synagogue, the Mars temple, a new Cathedral a culture that offers Mars Hermitage or religious retreat, it might follow old ritual of Mandaeism from Mesopotamia and other old sites also known as Nasoraeanism, Sabianism and Gnostic religious work. Mars could pray to its past ancestors, the Miao buildings in traditional East Asian religions enshrining gods, myths or legends, sages of past dynasties might pray to some old general who first unites Mars a South Korean guy Jincheon Gilsangsa is no longer worshiped but people still keep his temple in good condition and make prayer, perhaps these structures can also be compared to the Arabian or Western 'Mausoleum' idea. Mars might even develop underground secret cult religions or ritual like 'Skull and Bones' or Freemason sisterhoods and fraternity, it might have shkina  a celestial dwelling inhabited by uthras in the World of Light that is analogous to the shekhinah in Jewish mysticism. Mars people might break away and do their own thing, a group of them might follow things like Voodoo or Witchcraft, the Order 322 or The Brotherhood of Death an undergraduate senior secret student society at Yale University in New Haven, its drunken drugged up hedonistic blackmailed elite might even go to a retreat maybe similar to a Bohemian Grove Occult ritual in Monte Rio, California, United States. They might simply just pray to ancients, the Miao culture Shrine of China buildings in traditional East Asian religions enshrining gods, myths or legends, sages of past dynasties, and famous historical figures, these temple architecture and contrast with Ci Shrines which enshrine ancestors and people instead of deities, there are similar Shrine across Vietnam, Japan, China.  Mars people might simply need temples to mark events such as weddings, prayer to Mars a child's life birth and teenage years or rituals to say goodbye to the dead. Even Atheist people go to rituals for funerals, they also attend ceremony in wedding registration offices, they might have a Las Vegas Wedding rather than something in a traditional Christian church. A group of people or nation or kingdom might win a War but fail in the cultural war, for example the Mongolian culture defeated China yet only after a few generations the ancestors of Mongolians seen the Mongolian as barbaric and were more impressed with Chinese wonders and writing, many of them spoke Chinese and were assimilated back into ancient China's Empire. When the United States defeated the Spanish it got many new lands and territory, However the English has failed to dominate Puerto Rico, it was attempted to make it less Spanish and mroe English because it's a U.S. territory. even though Government and Federal influence has gone into the island the Hispanic culture or Spanish is the biggest culture and the most widely spoken and written language, 76.6% of Puerto Rico did not speak English "very well," perhaps they just like the language better or kids find it easier to learn? Maybe even the most Atheist of people can admit a Prayer or National Anthem or Pledge might help keep the idea of a Nation together or the Atheist can ask are the Beliefs and Practices of Religions perhaps 'The Noble Lie' that keeps a culture together?

Mars will be unique in that it is possible A.I and Robots will do a lot of work before the human arrives, its first water pipes and solar panels, ore processing plant and road and tracks and power stations and Biosphere farms may be first set up without a human having first set foot on Mars, a village or central town or hub might already be ready when the human colonists first arrive.  An A.I robot might even do a better job than a number of humans in some aspects of regional planning, town planning, city planning, or rural planning, is a technical and political process that is focused on the development and design of land use and the built environment, including air, water, and the infrastructure passing into and out of urban areas, such as transportation, communications, and distribution networks and their accessibility. We can assume Mars will be cities of high co-operation, the first settlers will be of high education and high intelligence and the Mars domes and towns will be of low crime. However that might not always be so, there would be a riot on its transport system on data, Mars might have freedom, business and social issues unrest in a future, the people of Mars may need distractions such as 'entertainment', the Martian could want a break away government or there could be future unrest, poverty and rebellion and anti-government movements. An A.I might be able to foresee issues when a colony starts to reach critical mass, looming possible food shortages, cultural collapse, communication and business delays, the software machine might be able to see ahead of time issues that we often would face historically on our Earth cultures.

Trains offering religion trips to the temples?

I often thought because Mars has sands and moving dust storms it might do better with some kind of suspended Monorail but the A.I Robots of Mars and people of Mars might come up with their own unique solution. In a future there could be some on Mars who might worship gold coins and silver and bitcoin and wealth, it could have a Economic Hub, a place where all the Bitcoin, Dollar, Yen and Dogecoin is Traded, a Financial capital of of Mars that could become part of a wider Galaxy spanning exchange. Mars could need its own hospital structures to cure the sick, making product that helps plant and animal, Mars might eventually need a place for its BirdDog drone police or its future Police Cars, its break down service and fire rescue and mountain rescue. Whatever future projects and 3D technologies are tested for houses on the Moon, news ideas for power stations, these Lunar projects might eventually be adapted to Mars. They on Mars  might build something unique overground, they could have their own Double-Decker trams or Light Rail or unique High Speed Rail or Maglev project on Mars they might have a unique subway underground system or might try new ideas like the Hyperloop. There is no exact figure for numbers of people arriving that says Mars must have electrified Tracks or non Electrified, there are Rail transport systems all over the world in the USA, in Canada, in Japan, in Chile, Liechtenstein, the Vatican, Armenia, Switzerland, the former Portuguese colony of Macau in China,  Sweden, India, Monaco, Nepal, Russia, in Vietnam, we have no figure that says when a highway or rail must be built. We do not know exactly when a% of the total rail system must be electrified  only that we know from experience a place needs shipping and ports and transport, it needs vehicles, eventually on most parts of our Earth it will be needed to support a town or city. However it is possible on Mars we would avoid the mistakes made in previous town and urban planning mistakes, that a lot of Mars Town and Village planning will already be done by virtual Construction planning and resource and land management simulations before people arrive on Mars.  Old sites were Robots, Flying Machine and Rovers and people once landed might become the historical cultural buildings of Mars.

After towns and cities are built up after sometime a government and people are expected to have its monument? They are expected by its middle class people to have museums of wonder, schools that impress, places of worship a decent visually pleasing aesthetic skyline.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-01 08:55:20)


#2 2022-08-01 08:34:27

Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,350

Re: Mars opportunity ideal Urban planning, Faith, Cityscapes, Transport.

OK Mars_B4_Moon ....

Where do you go from here?

This post (in case you're wondering) is the magic post that turns an idea for a topic into a topic.



#3 2022-08-01 13:33:01

Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Mars opportunity ideal Urban planning, Faith, Cityscapes, Transport.

Forgot about Embalming, stuffed animals and preservation of the dead, or general animal worshiop, maybe one of the Cows or Goats or Hens will be worshiped for feeding so many people.

It's probably more wise that animals get recycled by some nature process, become some sort of fish food or worm food.

Egyptians did that animal temple thing with their pet cats but I think its a waste of resources,
nobody got to see that cool golden mummified cat until they were discovered thousands of years later, there was even a  cat goddess Bastet, Sekhmet has a Green Catface but did the colored paint change its hue and tone over time and Cats were praised for killing venomous snakes and protecting the Pharaoh.

Churches part of culture?

The Warner monument, centerpiece of the Warner plot in Philadelphia’s Laurel Hill Cemetery carved by Alexander Milne Calder, a woman lifts the coffin to let a soul out? it is not known if the face of 'the soul' is that of Mr. Warner, Alexander Milne Calder was born in Aberdeen, Scotland, the son of a tombstone carver.

Lenin's Tomb, the Hungarian People's Republic issued a postage stamp in the 1950s.
"Lenin Undergoes Extreme Makeover" … keover.htm

Russians had their 90-year-old experiment to preserve the body of Vladimir Lenin,  Lenin’s preserving team bathes the body in mixtures consisting of glycerol solution baths, formaldehyde, potassium acetate, and other liquids to keep the recently died Lenin look, macabre — relic of Soviet Communism resides on Red Square in Moscow. All over Japan a cartoonish looking Cat maneki-neko is often believed to bring good luck, in Tokyo there is a famous statue of small bronze dog. Story says that Hachiko used to wait at the Station at the same time and place every evening for his master to return. One day his master, a university professor, did not show so the dog  continued to wait for over nine years and eventually died of a broken heart? In the month of March Hundreds of dog lovers still turn out to honor his memory and loyalty, maybe its a lesson on companionship and loyalty?

Think all of this sounds insane?

Well in America today, a violent drug dealer criminal named George Floyd with counterfeited money had criminal past, nut news media needed to sell a story so footage of a Cop kneeling on his head was played on repeat, playing again and again across US and Western news media, they eventually tired to turn this 'criminal' into a type of saint, the Antifa BLM rioter Bolsevik mob went out and tried to Burn down and Loot and Murder across multiple US cities, the media wanting to support this victim, a Negroid Black Congoid African American victim of race, a racism the media and its victimhood story attempted to make George Floyd into a modern Moses or Buddha or Pharaoh or something. Some neo Democrat nu Left Leaders Schumer and Pelosi, stated their wish to honor George Floyd with a bill bearing his name, in places as far away as Canada, England and Australia the local mobs started to take a knee for criminals and smash their own historical statues and destroy their own history, they went out to protest in the middle of a global pandemic Lockdown to honor a dead criminal. Floyd had heart disease and hypertension, had tested positive for COVID-19, and had the drugs fentanyl, methamphetamine, and cannabinoids in his system when he died. I think there was a story his great great great great great great great great-grandfather, Hillery Thomas Stewart was born as a slave but acquired his freedom in the American Civil War in which Caucasian Whites died or got bits of their bodies blown off in order to free Blacks.  The cop in the film Chauvin was convicted on two counts of murder and one count of manslaughter the other three officers maybe one Oriental Yellow or Arab or Latino or Multi racial mixed race at the scene were also later convicted of violating Floyd's civil rights, one of the Police had only been on the job a few days. As a result of pro-George Floyd anti-Cop pro-criminal de-policing hundreds upon hundreds of additional victims were murdered and almost 3,000 new extra victims of crime were shot. His Golden Coffin going on tour across multiple towns, States, cities, George Floyd funeral, Thousands in a hoodoo marxist voodoo zombie like trance queue to see golden coffin, covered in different political flags and art and odd fellow symbolism.

Now who is more crazy, us living in our world today or the ancient guy walking like an Egyptian?

or perhaps Mars will have Kings?
or maybe founding father figures, its own Mount Rushmore National Memorial?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-01 14:28:22)


#4 2022-08-02 03:18:11

From: Northern England, UK
Registered: 2019-08-18
Posts: 2,078

Re: Mars opportunity ideal Urban planning, Faith, Cityscapes, Transport.

I don't know about the religious stuff.  But here are a few concepts that are relevant to urban design:

New Urbanism.

Car-free cities. … world.html

On Mars, there is no countryside for people to retreat to.  Suburbs are not practical in an environment where transportation will be expensive and temperatures average -60°C.  Cities will be compact, pressurised urban cores and people will spend most of their time there.  There is nowhere else to go.  In that situation, cities need to be places that are good for humans to live in.  They need to be comfortable, safe, social environments, with clean air, that people will be happy to live in without the pressing desire to leave.  That means human-scale, pedestrian cities, with good architecture.  Places that you can walk around.  Lots of social space, like sports stadiums, music theatres, pubs and those little European style restaurants, with seating that spills out onto cobbled streets.  The Italians, French and Belgians have medieval cities that demonstrate how this can be done.  Places like Bruges and Venice.  Humans have always had an affinity for water.  Maybe Venice on Mars is the way to go.

The key to making a pedestrian city work is to make it small and high density.  If a city is no more than 1-mile in diameter, then anyone can walk from an part of the city to any other part, in less than 15 minutes.  The same is true for goods.  We need to be able to deliver goods and remove wastes without having vehicles enter the city.  That is practical for short delivery distances of <1 mile, but becomes grossly impractical for anything much larger.  So cities will be compact and pedestrian, with population density as high as 100,000 per square mile.

On Mars, we will be building our cities in underground caverns.  Weather will never be a problem, but pressurised volume is relatively expensive.  Houses and streets can be built using brick and natural stone.  Because space is at a premium, most houses will be terraces, with roof gardens.  Without rain, the roof space of buildings can be flat and can be landscaped to provide garden areas and sitting areas that look out over the city.  Buildings will be tall and thin, rather like the canal front houses of Amsterdam.  The streets separating houses will be narrow, as they will be built for pedestrians.  Streets will be social spaces, with commercial outlets of every kind extending onto them.  Skylights will let natural sunlight into the city enclosure.  Although Martian sunlight is weaker, outside of dust storms, it is a mostly sunny environment.  This will improve the built environment and will improve mood.

British and Amerucan cities are largely products of the industrial age.  They tend to be inhuman landscapes, full of busy roads, pollution and cheap architecture.  Architecture is mass produced and often prefab.  It is designed to be cheap.  And everything about our cities tends to reflect these ideals.  They were built by people that wanted to make money but wouldn't be living in them.  And they end up being places that everyone visits to do business, but otyerwise wants nothing to with.  On Mars we have the opportunity to do things differently.  Indeed, it is neccesary that we do.  Cities need to be places that everyone is happy to live in, at a high population density, because there will not be anywhere else to go.

Post script: Venice has a land area of about 8 square km (3 square miles).  In the late 16th century, in reached a population of ~170,000 people (56,600 per square mile).

A Martian city would be built under a layer of compressed regolith, maybe 10m thick, supported by compressed regolith columns and a cast iron roof.  The city would likely be divided into a number of separate chambers, each of which can be closed from adjacent chambers, by doors which fall by gravity when released.  Soil berms will separate each cell from the adjacent cells.  Building up the city in cells, allows additional growth and also provides protection against catastrophic pressure release.  If there is a pressure drop in any part of the city, doors will be released separating the damaged area from other parts of the city.  In this way, the city can survive depressurisation in any cell, without imperelling the remainder of the city.  Each cell would be circular and would have diameter of a few hundred metres, housing perhaps 3000 people.

Transport of people within the city, would mostly be carried out by foot.  People would walk within districts and between district cells, which would be linked by short tunnels passing through the soil berms.  Transport of goods could be carried out using canals, which would flow through pipes between district cells.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-08-02 09:09:04)

"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."


#5 2022-08-27 05:05:52

Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Mars opportunity ideal Urban planning, Faith, Cityscapes, Transport.

Perhaps a group can be created like the National Colonization Foundation could be initially structured not unlike the US National Science Foundation (NSF) an independent agency of the United States government that supports fundamental research and education in all the non-medical fields of science and engineering could help manage the first colony, the commercial colonists and Corporate groups would invest in colony, roads and tunnels could be built and a another group come in and make long term investment.  The South Pole was never weaponized but it does have militray heriatge, Aircraft flights by Admiral Byrd as a navigator and expedition leader crossed the Atlantic Ocean, a segment of the Arctic Ocean, and a segment of the Antarctic Plateau. Richard E. Byrd is also known for discovering Mount Sidley, the largest dormant volcano in Antarctica, credit must also be give to the other international explorers and adventurers that came before him, some of which succeeded or paid with their lives. Roald Amundsen a Norwegian explorer was first to the pole, contrast to the misfortunes of Scott's team, Amundsen's trek proved relatively smooth and uneventful he was totally prepared for this way of life and lived in the Polar region, neither of these guys would have had an ability to build a village or town, that took the power and skill of a military, so how will the Space towns develop?

It came to my mind that while the United States of America is a new country, it has strengths and it has weakness. The USA it is a new place in the world, it has space to build new things and yet it doesn't do that whole new Urban planning well, or the USA fails on the Federal regional plans and State city town design very well. How do you plan out your Space town, make that perfect design but make it unique and human and cultured also known as regional planning. You would think that old places in Europe or China would have planning problems with all these old streets, ancient buildings, old walls or old bridges or statues in the way, obstacles to progress some modernist think. Some countries they don't just have debate between old and new, they are not without internal social problems, in France for example thousands of churches attacked, hundreds vandalized, no exact report as to why, random Vandalism criminals, some crazy Secular Atheist Antifa type, perhaps islamic mohammedan muslim immigrants, there is lots of speculation, then in April 2019 the Notre-Dame cathedral caught fire, it became a public outrage, destroying the spire and the "forest" of oak roof beams supporting the lead roof. Notre Dame is part of French heritage and identity since 1163, existing before many modern nations were born the outcry about the fire was everywhere and  President Macron announced that he hoped the reconstructed Cathedral could be finished by Spring 2024, in time for the opening of the 2024 Summer Olympics, in media they all ran similar news it was speculated that the fire was linked to ongoing renovation work. Sometimes it is not just terrorism or vandalism that destroys ancient heritage a President or King or government itself destroys its own heritage. There is often criticism of smashing down old European or knocking down Asian heritage while trying to modernize, people have been especially critical of China flooding old ancient villages for a Hydro design or smashing down a street or Temple to make way for a new road. America has huge economic might and for some reason for example Spain a country with less economic power than America, less industrial product managed to modernize their transport and do modern high speed Rail all across remote regions in Spanish country side and connect city to city with high tech transport systems. If for example NASA is failing to do something build a road on Mars, making a tunnel on the Moon and they fail to do it could they job be given to commercial interests or for example United States Army style Corps a new SpaceForce of Engineers, they have a new Space Force job an engineer formation of the Military Security Health Space that has three primary mission areas: Engineer Regiment, Health Security construction, and some kind of fictional Space tourist Astronaut Civilian works, we are entering an age where robots not just soldiers can soon do builder works, tax payer money better spent, technology demonstration can be done with one group, exploration and colonization done by another group.

If you look back at US history could the original Amundsen–Scott Station have been built as it was without the Navy Seabees, maybe not. Even though it was a military operation it soon became a international science operation, a multi of cultures and peoples investing, Edmund Hillary's team from New Zealand, part of the Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition, reached the station over land from Scott Base, followed shortly by Sir Vivian Fuchs' British scientific component, soon other arriving from the Western world, New Zealand flags, France, Australia, Canada and people from Russia, Argentina, South Africa, South Korea and Chile. We have decided as humans and come to agreements, that Antarctica must not be exploited, its nature and heritage and wildlife protected under the Antarctic Treaty, the Moon or Mars does not have Pengiuns, lice, nematodes, tardigrades, rotifers, krill, blue whales, orcas, colossal squids, fur seals, sea cucumbers, birds, Deschampsia Antarctic hair grass, Colobanthus quitensis Antarctic pearlwort, lichens, aquatic algal or Algae species, bryophytes  Landplant hepatics or liverworts, hundreds of species of mosses, the non-native Poa annua meadow grass, free-swimming snails, Fungi mushrooms and springtails, as well as an eco-system of animals that visit the South Polar region.

In regards to the heritage of people that one day live off world and call Mars or the Lunar Surface or Oceans of Europa their home. One can be Agnostic or Religious or Atheist but perhaps when one sees a powerful work of construction and art it is a wondrous piece of heritage regardless of your religion or not.

People reacted to the burning on facebook, twitter, talking about the loss of history a reaction across the world on social media. The site or idea and story of the site it becomes part of the heritage of the people?


The United states could try or win and dominate in other areas that it traditionally has trouble performing but maybe the correct thing for the USA to do would play to its strengths, do it all through more free policy and allow free ideas and capital and corporate movements or people with creative ideas. If the USA were to apply all the Codes and Laws and Culture that people of say Spain or Germany or China use then maybe that would be an obstacle to the USA, maybe the USA should play to its own strengths instead of matching other peoples exact ability, you want to copy their powers and copying their cultures but maybe that would be the wrong way to approach it, instead allow American astronauts, the preachers building their Churches or Temple or Cathedral and allow free exploring colonists to do what they have always done best?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-27 06:13:47)


#6 2022-09-23 05:57:03

Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Mars opportunity ideal Urban planning, Faith, Cityscapes, Transport.

This guy thinks the Monarchy might save British towns and Cities?

'Could King Charles Lead England to a More Sustainable Design Future?' … 00331.html

I'm not sure if Charles will push 'New Urbanism'.

Maybe it will be robots running machines and trains, maybe they will drive in the Mars tunnel using IR or another part of the spectrum, rather than always trying to learn from the best and copy the best we can learn by avoiding mistakes and study the worst.  Los Angeles, São Paulo Brazil, Naypyidaw Myanmar, Peterborough, Rio de Janeiro Brasil, Houston, Jakarta Indonesia, there is no one single rule that makes a city bad it can be old or new, an old city for example might find a way to demolish old route or update roads to beat traffic or a new city might simply design its transport system bad, smashing up old cultural temples however can leave a modernized city looking empty and soulless. Old Soviet towns in the USSR were often typically heartless looking places. In 2016 the Russians built a functional Spaceport, the Vostochny Cosmodrome, a Tsiolkovsky is a closed town in Amur Oblast, Russia, although it launches rockets the photos of  buildings nearby seem uninspiring, perhaps they could have done more to add the regions natural beauty or make a more pleasing design.

In some near by towns viewed from maps and street views you can see Homesteads across North America, South Africa, Latin America, Europe, Asia. : “How much land do you head to start a homestead on Planet Earth?” The answer can be any number of replies it varies a lot but, in general, you can homestead on anything between two and 40 acres, if we make Mars like home would the answer be much the same? In real life back on Earth some of our towns and cities were badly planned.  Have you noticed that even the fake virtual world of video games they sometimes put better thought and planning into towns, they do scifi simulation, they build theme parks, fun fair carnie places, they build old period towns and they sometimes design and think ahead and plan it all better than people do in our real world.

Sometimes underground looks good

'Caves, Tunnels and Bunkers: Seeking Seclusion in Subterranean Structures' … terranean/

Subterranean architecture is nothing new, as humans have sought shelter in tunnels and caves since before any concept of architecture had developed. Such environments have been variously described as protective and secure, primitive and unclean or frightening and foreboding. The ways communities characterize subterranean spaces are indicative of our complex relationship to the natural world and speak to fears and fantasies of separation from society.

Bats via Infravision … ision.html
Remember how in early D&D some races had "infravision" which was essentially thermal predator vision? This is what the entrance to the bat-infested cave system looks like to an elf:

Subterranean Architecture: Interesting Approach To Design and Construction
Subterranean architecture has always existed since the journey of humankind started. It is finding shelter in the underground. This concept was once used to create caves, refuges, and tunnels to answer the most primitive needs.

and the virtual world of Gamers

Let’s design a medieval village: Introduction … roduction/

In medieval England and France the village was the smallest but also, arguably, the  most important cell of a Kingdom’s organism. The countryside was literally littered with thousands of villages a couple of miles apart from each other.

Standing at the heart of agrarian economy, villages provided the population of a kingdom with the most important product during the middle ages – food. Without it a kingdom would fall, without a single drop of blood to ever being shed. On the flip side, the wealth of a kingdom and its prosperity was dependent on its ability to create surplus of food and other agricultural resources. Surplus allowed two things – trade and cities. Both of these exploited the surplus resources of villages; one to create wealth by selling the resources, and the other to manufacture items with higher value and to support a city’s population.

Towns grew out of people meeting and trading and talking across paths, people set up tents and buildings where trade and business and discussion would meet up. The town was often a natural organic thing, a guy came to sell fish to trade for vegtables or maybe a pig? the Town evolved in its own way it grew out of forts, solider and guard and sentry set to guard buildings or protect food ores or coin, crossing of roads, Church, Temple, Stores, Docks, Airports, Railway, Clothes and Food Stores or the Farming barter trade Marketplace, the natural evolution of towns.

Older city versus new city design? An unplanned city that grew naturally in 1808 the world's first lake-going steamboat was built in Burlington Vermont. The War of 1812 was unpopular in Vermont and the rest of New England, which had numerous trading ties with Canada. Neither Vermont nor other New England states provided militia units or financial support,  voters supported the Federalist Party, which opposed the war. Militarization? the U.S. had 5,000 troops stationed in Burlington, outnumbering residents and putting a strain on resources. British forces from Canada shelled Burlington. This is described as either a bold stroke by the British with an ineffectual response from the Americans the US responds, American troops involved were commanded by Naval Lieutenant Thomas Macdonough, later a hero of the Battle of Lake Champlain. Later it develop into a port of entry and center for trade, particularly after completion of the Canals, road and freight and passengers it became a bustling commodity, lumbering and manufacturing center – old European colonial era prosperity left behind much fine architecture, including buildings, it became the most polluted city and then most cleaned up city, Vice-president Theodore Roosevelt spoke to a Civil War fraternal group in Burlington, he soon became President of the United States when President McKinley died.

Most people no matter what part of the planet or culture they are from they will say Church Street Marketplace is a nice looking area, an uncovered outdoor pedestrian shopping and dining mall.

The outdoor design could make a part of Mars look as natural as Earth, perhaps scenes of leaves or flowing water would be projected onto the side of a Dome

'Small-Town Secrets: Five Ideas for Rural Design' including pics of a Walnut Creek Trail … atest-hits

On Mars there is no Terraforming that has yet taken place, everything will be covered in an artificial Biosphere, a market place might be Subterranean  or some people live and trade and work and study and discover kind of Dome

Calliban wrote:

Transport of people within the city, would mostly be carried out by foot.

American City Design Traps People Who Can’t Drive

You can not walk you must burn gasoline and drive.

When planning goes wrong

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-23 06:49:20)


Board footer

Powered by FluxBB