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#1 2021-01-13 19:41:17

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 11,350

Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

For SpaceNut .... there are two topics containing the word "Antarctica" but neither seemed a good fit for this item...

The local 3D Printer user group is led by a veteran of a year spent in Antarctica.  It was proposed in the past that he might be invited to participate in the forum as a guest speaker, but for whatever reason that did not happen at the time.

This evening, I mentioned the idea of a research facility on Mount Everest, and the group leader pointed out that the Antarctic research station where he spent a year is 2 miles above the surface of the ocean.  For some reason I was totally unaware of that (but in retrospect, I should have known because I know Antarctica has mountain ranges).

In any case, the gent reported that altitude sickness is a definite problem for crew landing at the station.  Some have to be returned to lower altitudes because they can't acclimate.

He said the atmospheric pressure is about 2/3 of sea level at the station.

The pressure recommended by RobertDyck is 1/2 of sea level, with 2.7 psi partial pressure of Oxygen, for habitats on Mars and for the Large Ship cabins.

(th)

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#2 2021-01-13 21:32:07

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,347

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

There is alot of research on going in the very harsh region of earth for sure but what would we gain from such a location?

One on my roaming plot ideas was taken from the moving buildings that are there as a possible mars means to move about even if slowly as we do research for a given area.

Other than that we would need to constant supply the ability to stay which is not using insitu materials or any systems that would translate to a mars capability other than inside food farming.

The Everest location is seasonal for warm weather but its got light all year round that the Antarctica location would not have.

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#3 2021-11-23 17:08:16

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 26,347

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

High-speed internet could be coming to AntarcticaAAR2P60.img?w=768&h=432&m=6

On a volcanic rock just off the coast of Antarctica, McMurdo Station is abuzz with scientific research this time of year. Run by the US National Science Foundation, the station sees up to 1,000 visitors in the Antarctic summer from October to February, who travel here to conduct research on topics ranging from climate to ocean science.

“Improving the communications will remove some burdens, make it a lot easier for [people] to be deployed in the field, and extend the experience to folks that couldn’t deploy,” Smith said. “We’re looking at this as a transformative opportunity.”

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#4 2021-11-23 18:29:23

louis
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From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 7,208

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

A lot of those 1000 visitors will be on Mars in a few years' time. smile


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#5 2021-12-23 19:42:27

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 26,347

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

surprise scientists have uncovered new life underneath the Antartica ice shelf.

The holes were roughly 200 meters deep in the Antarctic ice shelf. There they found fragments of life on the seabed which included over 77 species. Some of the species had already been discovered in Antarctica. However, there were fragments from several new species that they didn’t previously know about in the area.

“Carbon dating of dead fragments of these seafloor animals varied from current to 5,800 years,” Dr. Gerard Kuhn, a co-author on the study said in the release. “Despite living 3-9km from the nearest open water, an oasis of life may have exists continuously for nearly 6,000 years under the ice shelf.

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#6 2022-03-18 07:27:07

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

A New Jersey start-up is using vertical farming to start selling fruit.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/15/bowerys … york-.html?

Double-shadowed moon craters may be coldest place in the solar system

https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 … ar-system/

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#7 2022-07-07 08:46:04

Mars_B4_Moon
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Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Contained Confinement At Concordia Research Station In Antarctica

http://spaceref.com/antarctica-1/contai … ica-1.html

ESA-sponsored medical doctor Nick Smith snapped this photo of the storage containers at Concordia research station in Antarctica shortly before sunset, 8 April 2021. The dark blue line at the horizon is the shadow of the Earth.

The containers store food, recycling and the scientific samples of blood, saliva, and stool that Nick routinely takes. The units on the right are part of the summer camp, during which researchers sleep in tents.

Science for the benefit of space exploration does not only happen off planet. While some studies require the weightless isolation of the International Space Station, Antarctica also provides the right conditions for investigating the consequences of spaceflight, and it is a little easier to access than space.

another discussion on the North Pole


Cities in the Arctic
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7897

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-07 08:47:02)

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#8 2022-08-08 05:29:32

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Greenland Town Kingdom of Denmark?

Qaanaaq is the destination for people wanting to experience extremes. It is the most northern town in North Greenland where the Sun never makes it above the horizon for 3.5 months of the year (a time of Polar Darkness), and then never sets for 5 months over summer (known as the Midnight Sun). Qaanaaq – a place where traditions such as hunting with dog sleds, kayaks, and harpoons are still common and necessary for survival.
https://visitgreenland.com/destinations/qaanaaq/
A place where the sea ice extends for more than a day’s dogsled from shore during the winter and where massive icebergs dwarf the colourful houses along the shore.

Daneborg (or Daneborg Station) is a station on the south coast of Wollaston Foreland peninsula of northeast Greenland, at the mouth of Young Sund emptying into Greenland Sea. Daneborg serves as the headquarters for the SIRIUS Patrol, the dog sled patrollers of the Northeast Greenland National Park, the largest national park in the world.

Daneborg has a polar climate (Köppen ET). With very low annual rain or snowfall it has strong desert influences

http://meteo-climat-bzh.dyndns.org/list … -1-p75.php

http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/daneborg.htm


We have another thread which discussed the spread of cultures, language and religions as far as the South Pole. Bulgarian going down to the icey south and Temples and Churches and now radio stations which broadcast in Korean, Spanish, Japanese, Italian and French? water samples taken from the South Pole and then used for selling art and making new watercolor paintings. There was a discussion on loss of life and accidents and tourism, Climbing the South Pole peaks could one day be like Mountains of Mars?

Larger than Antarctic ozone hole may up skin cancer, cataract risk
https://health.economictimes.indiatimes … k/92765703

Antarctica's mid-winter darkness broken by 'afterglow' of Tonga volcano
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300638 … ga-volcano

Spectacular Antarctic sky due to Tongan volcano
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/specta … ETLEMWHBY/

from the South Pole to the North Pole?

Mars Society Plans 'Mission' in the Canadian High Arctic
https://www.space.com/21350-mock-mars-m … rctic.html

I'm not sure if they continued this research after the global Covid virus event?

Arctic Mars Analog Svalbard Expedition (AMASE) used Mars analog sites on Svalbard for testing of science questions and payload instruments onboard Mars missions. AMASE has arranged annual expeditions on Svalbard since 2003 and is run by Vestfonna Geophysical AS and funded by the Norwegian Space Centre, ESA and NASA. Payload instruments CheMin and SAM onboard NASA's Curiosity rover were deployed on AMASE in 2006–2011. Field deployment of payload instruments onboard ESA's ExoMars rover had been ongoing since 2007.
http://www.astrobio.net/expedition/amas … takes-off/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-08 09:28:15)

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#9 2022-08-25 07:22:59

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

New water map of Mars will prove invaluable for future exploration

https://phys.org/news/2022-08-mars-inva … ation.html

This inflatable house prototype gives a glimpse into how humans could live on the surface of Mars

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/inflatable-ho … 43648.html

"On Mars, you’d have to live in a really small, resourceful community. You’d have to fix everything when it breaks, you’d have to really consider every aspect of your daily life. So it’s a place for thinking about all of those questions," Good said.

Along with fellow artist, Nicki Kent, she collaborated with scientists and architects to build a sustainable house.

Hugh Broughton, the principal architect on the project and designer of the British Antarctic Survey's Halley VI Research Station, says he sees parallels between the Mars house and his previous projects in Antarctica.

"There are many similar kinds of features because for much of the year in Antarctica it's really hard to get outside. You have to make the most of every square metre of building," explained Broughton.

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#10 2022-09-01 07:31:00

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Mars might be closer to the Highest Mountain Deserts or the Colds of Antarctica than our inhospitable Moon, Mars has glaciers and possible hidden lakes it is however another world way from the South Pole, which can offer almost immediate rescue and some very difficult land to live on but with Earthly comforts.

There is also an Antarctic Treaty to protect the unique environment and Life of the South Pole, Mars already had life wiped off its surface, life and waste and soil will need to be brought to Mars to create a Biosphere, it will not face the same political issues or treaty.

Endurance Shipwreck Found 106 Years After Antarctic Sinking
https://lethbridgenewsnow.com/2022/08/3 … c-sinking/

Sanitation at the Bottom of the World
https://www.waste360.com/recycling/sani … ttom-world

A team of 15 seasonal workers sends 5.5 million pounds of solid waste and a million pounds of hazardous waste from Antarctica back to the United States in a single annual shipment. The department, whose members proudly call themselves “Wasties,” is part of the United States Antarctic Program (USAP), which supports the continent’s science investigations for the National Science Foundation (NSF). The waste department is managed by a staff of four headquartered in Denver.

Scientists Melted Ancient Ice and a Long-Dead Worm Wriggled Out
https://futurism.com/the-byte/ancient-ice-worm

Soil Nematodes
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ag … -nematodes
Overall, the soil nematode-community analysis indicates that the soil treatments of arable versus plot-specific soil differ concerning the composition of the soil biota, while the plant treatment (plant removal, soil disturbance and reseeding) changed the abundance of soil biota.

THE LIVING SOIL: NEMATODES
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nr … 2p2_053866
Nematodes are non-segmented worms typically 1/500 of an inch (50 µm) in diameter and 1/20 of an inch (1 mm) in length. Those few species responsible for plant diseases have received a lot of attention, but far less is known about the majority of the nematode community that plays beneficial roles in soil.
An incredible variety of nematodes function at several trophic levels of the soil food web. Some feed on the plants and algae (first trophic level); others are grazers that feed on bacteria and fungi (second trophic level); and some feed on other nematodes (higher trophic levels).
Free-living nematodes can be divided into four broad groups based on their diet.
    Bacterial-feeders consume bacteria.
    Fungal-feeders feed by puncturing the cell wall of fungi and sucking out the internal contents.
    Predatory nematodes eat all types of nematodes and protozoa. They eat smaller organisms whole, or attach themselves to the cuticle of larger nematodes, scraping away until the prey’s internal body parts can be extracted.
    Omnivores eat a variety of organisms or may have a different diet at each life stage. Root-feeders are plant parasites, and thus are not free-living in the soil.

Nematodes and Their Impact on Soil Health
https://www.corteva.us/Resources/crop-p … todes.html
What Are Good Nematodes?
Nematodes are one of the most diverse and abundant groups of animals in the soil, and plants almost always interact with nematodes during their lifecycles.
Good nematodes, also known as beneficial nematodes, contribute to the soil in various ways and are involved in nutrient cycles that boost plant growth. Different types of nematodes feed on bacteria, fungi, insects, and even bad nematodes. These helpful organisms play an important role in keeping destructive plant pests and diseases at bay, thus promoting both soil biodiversity and health.

Antarctica is about to get its first submarine internet cable
https://www.techradar.com/news/antarcti … rnet-cable

According to a research paper from 2021, cited by The Register, Antarctica’s Scott Base and McMurdo Station currently suffer from an extreme lack of networking capacity

Winter airdrop
https://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/2504/

NASA Studies Find Previously Unknown Loss of Antarctic Ice
https://spaceref.com/earth/nasa-studies … rctic-ice/

Designing and building polar research stations in Antarctica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ORItJZToQ

Tv show 'Destination Antarctica'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V26wCXi9fc

Street Maps. 'Let's take a virtual tour of McMurdo Station in Antarctica!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YmpldLC2n8

A Subglacial Lake in Antarctica Churns Out Nutrients
https://eos.org/articles/a-subglacial-l … -nutrients
Eight hundred meters below the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, microbes in subglacial Lake Whillans create organic carbon that helps power the Southern Ocean’s vast food chain.

Coldest and Driest Frozen world
https://hbarchitects.co.uk/news/building-martian-house/

A full-scale house designed for future life on Mars has received planning permission in Bristol. The house is the outcome of an ongoing public art project, ‘Building a Martian House’.

The project is conceived of and led by local artists Ella Good and Nicki Kent, who have brought together artists, scientists, architects, engineers and the public over several years to explore how we live today and stimulate visions for new ways of living here on Earth and on Mars.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-01 11:28:38)

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#11 2022-09-01 17:14:57

Mars_B4_Moon
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Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Concordia and ESA

Welcome to Antarctica
https://astrovenator.blogspot.com/

Part 1. The Induction
https://blogs.esa.int/concordia/2016/06 … induction/

Isolated
https://web.archive.org/web/20220124140 … e-on-earth

Floris van den Berg Biomedical Research
https://web.archive.org/web/20151210093 … stdoc.com/

'The largest lake, Lake Vostok, is one of the largest sub-glacial lakes in the world.'
https://antarctica.fandom.com/wiki/Antarctica

Seven sovereign states have made territorial claims in Antarctica. However, since the Antarctic Treaty came into force in 1961, most countries do not recognize these territorial claims.

    Argentina - Argentine Antarctica
    Australia - Australian Antarctic Territory
    Chile - Chilean Antarctic Territory
    France - Adélie Land
    New Zealand - Ross Dependency
    Norway - Peter I Island, Queen Maud Land
    United Kingdom - British Antarctic Territory

Davis Station, commonly called Davis, is one of three permanent bases and research outposts in Antarctica managed by the Australian Antarctic Division (AAD). Davis was named in honour of Captain John King Davis.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-anta … ions/davis

Lower Erebus Hut (LEH) is a permanent field facility located on Mount Erebus on Ross Island, Antarctica. The hut served as the seasonal base of the Mount Erebus Volcano Observatory (MEVO), run by New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology (NMT).
https://web.archive.org/web/20070224020 … detic.html

Captain Pieter J. Lenie Base is an Antarctic summer base operated by the United States located at Copacabana Beach, Admiralty Bay (King George Island)
PDF
https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/antarct/tre … 2Plans.pdf
News
https://antarcticsun.usap.gov/science/1622/

Law-Racoviță-Negoiță Station Romanian: known only as the Law-Racoviță Station Stația Law-Racoviță until 2011, is the first Romanian station for research and exploration in Antarctica, named after the Romanian explorer Emil Racoviță and inaugurated on January 13, 2006 at the location of a station constructed in 1986 by Australia and donated to Romania. The station may be found in Princess Elizabeth Land, in the Larsemann Hills, 2 kilometres (1.2 mi) away from China's Antarctic Zhongshan Station.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180626075 … ctica.html

Zhongshan Station  is the second Chinese research station in Antarctica and was opened in 1989. Zhongshan Station is named after Sun Yat-sen, who served as the provisional first president of the Republic of China in 1912.
http://chinare.mnr.gov.cn/enCatalog/enD … =undefined

Adélie Land or Terre Adélie is a claimed territory on the continent of Antarctica. It stretches from a portion of the Southern Ocean coastline all the way inland to the South Pole. France has administered it as one of five districts of the French Southern and Antarctic Lands since 1955 and applied the Antarctic Treaty System rules since 1961. Article 4 deals with territorial claims, and although it does not renounce or diminish any preexisting claims to sovereignty, it also does not prejudice the position of Contracting Parties in their recognition or non-recognition of territorial sovereignty.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181102192 … r-des-TAAF

Vernadsky Research Base  is a Ukrainian Antarctic Station at Marina Point on Galindez Island in the Argentine Islands, not far from Kyiv Peninsula. The region is under territorial claims between three countries (see Territorial claims in Antarctica). The single Ukrainian Antarctic station is named after the mineralogist Vladimir Vernadsky (1863–1945) who was the first president of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170405195 … ation.aspx

Molodyozhnaya also known as "Molodezhnaya" was a Soviet, then Russian research station in East Antarctica at 67°40′S 45°50′E. After being mothballed in 1990, it was reopened in 2006 to operate on a seasonal basis. In Russian, the station is sometimes referred to as the capital of Antarctica.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030904165 … lhnaya.htm


Fossil Bluff is a seasonal British aircraft refuelling station located on the east coast of Alexander Island in Antarctica. In operation since 1961, its facilities provide fuel, storage, and ancillary support for British exploration and operations during the summer season, October through March.
https://airportnavfinder.com/airport/AT10/

Great Wall Station  is the first Chinese research station in Antarctica and opened on 20 February 1985. It lies on the Fildes Peninsula on King George Island, and is about 2.5 kilometres (1.6 mi) from the Chilean Frei Montalva Station, and 960 kilometres (600 mi) from Cape Horn.
In summer, the station holds up to 40 people; in winter, 14. The station's No. 1 Building, erected in 1985, lies at the centre of the station and has a total floor area of 175 square metres (1,880 sq ft). It marks the beginning of China’s presence in Antarctica and its Antarctic research program.
In 2012, the Antarctic Treaty System designated two sites at the station as Historic Sites and Monuments in Antarctica following nominations by China: a monolith erected to commemorate the establishment of the station and the station's No.1 Building.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181211133 … w003_e.pdf

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-04 13:05:48)

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#12 2022-09-04 12:58:22

Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

The Wreck of The Endurance Has Been Discovered in Antarctica
https://www.labroots.com/trending/earth … antarctica

The expedition of Endurance was one of the legends. It is one of the most harrowing survival stories in naval history. These men were trapped in the ice for months on end before the ship sunk in the frigid waters.  Shackleton was tested mentally, physically, and emotionally trapped on the ice. They attempted to remove the vessel from the ice by hand, using pickaxes, for two days straight. Running low on supplies Shackleton’s crew attempted to ram the ice to no avail. When this did not work the crew turned the ship into a winter base of sorts. From playing with puppies and singing competitions the crew did everything they could to keep spirits high.

Life under ice

Under-Sea-Ice Observation Tube at McMurdo Station, Antarctica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loWMYNFqp-E

vid
'Brazil opens new research base in Antarctica'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvU69e0zK6s

This Remarkable Antarctic Base Can Move Around in Case of Danger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_ekDJuuD8E

The Logistics of Living in Antarctica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s3j-ptJD10

Antarctic Infrastructure Modernization for Science (AIMS) – McMurdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJSxXRKBGUI

UK launches new mobile research station in Antarctica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxXhKXLbDWo

vid
'Korea opens second research station in Antarctica'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLiR-1d58OQ

From a previous multi-week expedition

'Huge volume of water detected under Antarctic ice'
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61337864

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-05 08:28:45)

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#13 2022-09-13 13:28:07

Mars_B4_Moon
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Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Contained Confinement At Concordia Research Station In Antarctica
https://spaceref.com/earth/contained-co … arctica-1/

Scientists uncover evidence that the Late Cretaceous hosted icy conditions in Antarctica
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272 … antarctica

Let's pretend it's the Late Cretaceous, roughly 66 to 100 million years ago. We've got dinosaurs roaming the land and odd-looking early species of birds, although the shark as we know it is already swimming in the prehistoric oceans which cover 82% of Earth. Redwood trees and other conifers are making their debut, as are roses and flowering plants, and with them come bees, termites and ants. Most of all, it's warm, volcanically active and humid all over the place with not an ice sheet in sight.

Except, according to a group of scientists from UC Santa Barbara, University of Oregon and University of Manitoba, icy conditions did exist in the region of the South Pole.

"And it wasn't just a single-valley glacier," said UCSB geologist John Cottle, "it was probably multiple glaciers or a large ice sheet." Contrary to our widely held picture of the Late Cretaceous as "hot everywhere," he said, there's evidence that polar ice existed during that period, even at the height of global greenhouse conditions.

The geologists' study is published in the journal Nature Communications.

A Prehistoric PuzzleFast-forward to today. Let's pretend we're in Antarctica. It's chilly, it's barren, and we're standing near a large grouping of exposed glassy rock along the Transantarctic Mountains, adjacent to the Ross Ice Shelf, called the Butcher Ridge Igneous Complex (BRIC).

"I actually heard about these rocks when I was a grad student 20 or so years ago, and they're just really weird," Cottle said. Remote, even by today's Antarctic exploration standards, the BRIC is unusual because the rocks' composition and formation are uncharacteristic of nearby rock formations, with, among other things, large amounts of glass and layered alteration that indicates significant physical, chemical or environmental events that changed their mineral composition.

Cottle got the chance to finally sample the BRIC on a recent expedition, and in the process of analyzing how it was formed, he and his team encountered an "unusually large amount of water.""So you have a really hot rock that interacts with water, and as it cools, incorporates it into the glass," he said. "If you look at the composition, then you can tell something about where that water came from. It can exist as hydroxyl, which tells you that it probably came from the magma, or it could be molecular, which means it is probably external."What they were expecting to see was that the alteration in the rock was caused by the water already in the magma as it cooled. What they found instead was a record of a climate process that was thought not to have existed at the time.

In their spectroscopic analysis of the samples, the researchers determined that while some of the water indeed originated with magma as it plumed upward from Earth's interior, as the molten rock cooled into glass just beneath the Earth's surface, it also incorporated groundwater.

"We determined that most of the water in these rocks is externally derived," Cottle said. "We then measured the oxygen and hydrogen isotopic composition of the water and it matches very well to the composition of Antarctic snow and ice."To lock in their result, Cottle and team also conducted argon-argon geochronology to date the rock and its alteration.

"The problem is, these rocks are Jurassic, so about 183 million years old," he said. "So when you measure the alteration, what you don't know is when that happened." They were able to recover the age of the rock (Jurassic), but also found a younger age (Cretaceous). "So when these rocks cooled and were altered," he continued, "it also reset the argon isotope as well, and you can match the age of the alteration to the composition of the alteration."There are other, similar volcanic rocks roughly 700 km north of the BRIC that also have a Cretaceous alteration age, indicating that polar glaciation might have been regionally extensive in Antarctica during that time. "What we'd like to do is go to other places in Antarctica and see if we can determine the scale of the glaciation, if we recover the same results that we've already found," he said.

Finding evidence of large ice sheets dating back to the Cretaceous might not alter our general picture of a hot and humid Earth at that time, Cottle said, "but we would have to think about the Cretaceous and Antarctica quite differently than we do now."Research in this study was also conducted by Demian A. Nelson (lead author) of UCSB, Ilya N. Bindeman at the University of Oregon and Alfredo Camacho at the University of Manitoba. (ANI)

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#14 2022-09-14 06:54:43

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

How will routes of trade be set up on Mars, of course the Moon and Earth but perhaps one day beaming power from Mercury or trade using other routes also the Asteroids or Moons like Titan or Calisto.

Aerovías DAP plans to operate more than 150 flights to Antarctica during the austral summer
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/09/ae … al-summer/

The South Pole and busy route from Chile, going slow by boat and ship is one method but also quicker routes from Argentina South America, South Africa, airliners from Australia and New Zealand. Sea cruises leave from Ushuaia in Argentina. Prince Edward Islands are two small uninhabited islands in the sub-Antarctic Indian Ocean that are part of South Africa. French Southern and Antarctic Lands consists of Adélie Land Terre Adélie, the French claim on the continent of Antarctica Crozet Islands , a group in the southern Indian Ocean, south of Madagascar, Kerguelen Islands aka Archipel des Kerguelen, a group of volcanic islands in the southern Indian Ocean, southeast of Africa, Saint Paul and Amsterdam Islands a group to the north of the Kerguelen Islands, the French claimed Scattered Islands.  New Zealand had a bad crash  with the loss of all 257 lives aboard. Qantas resumed its sightseeing flight program, which is currently operational. Flights last 12 hours and cost between $1000 and $8000. Sea cruises generally last anywhere between 10 days and 3 weeks and costs start from around US$6,000 per person for shared accommodation. Passports are needed for the land claimed by some but not woned by anyone Tourism companies are required by the Antarctic Treaty to have a permit to visit Antarctica.
https://www.worldtravelguide.net/guides … port-visa/

Chile and Argentina once almost tired to colonize the place,  British concluded that a military Naval occupation was indeed necessary to end flag raising and these tit-for-tat tactics. Argentina and Chile disputed the British claim, and make their own counter-claims that overlap both Britain's and each other's, in the 40s British personnel from HMS Carnarvon Castle removed Argentine flags from Deception Island, Royal Navy warships were dispatched in 1948 to prevent naval incursions. Britain submitted an application to the International Court of Justice in 1955 to adjudicate between the territorial claims of Britain, Argentina, and Chile, that proposal failed, as both Latin American countries rejected submitting to an international arbitration procedure. Seven sovereign states had made eight territorial claims to land in Antarctica south of the 60° S parallel before 1961.  To prevent the possibility of military conflict in the region, the United States, United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, and 9 other countries with significant interests negotiated and signed the Antarctic Treaty in 1959. http://60south.com/about/about.htm , https://web.archive.org/web/20100326100 … spx?lang=e Antarctica is at peace these days it is peaceful and maybe private yacht voyages are happening today in the Southern Ocean.

Borders on Mars: A logical extension of Human practice on Earth
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10287

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-14 06:55:50)

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#15 2022-09-14 16:49:06

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Mars and the South Pole have Quakes

5.5 earthquake shakes Macquarie Island in close proximity to Australia
https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/08/16/5 … australia/

Earthquake measuring 5.2 on the Richter scale strikes off Australia's south coast near a vital research station
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … ation.html
An earthquake measuring 5.2 on the Richter scale has struck off Australia's south coast near Macquarie Island, where a vital Antarctic research base is located

an old news item, when things go wrong

Antarctic Halley Station lost power and heat at -32C
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cam … e-28687841
With temperatures as low as -32C (-25F), members of the Cambridge-based British Antarctic Survey (BAS) at the Halley VI Station suffered the power loss on 30 July.

"Power and some heating are back online, and some other essential services have been restored, but the staff are having to live and work in extremely difficult conditions."

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#16 2022-09-14 17:34:59

tahanson43206
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Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

For Mars_B4_Moon .... thank you for Post #15, bringing the Antarctica topic back into view....

By coincidence, I was ** just ** talking (by Zoom) to an Antarctica over-winter veteran (10 years ago now).  He's the leader of a local 3D Printer group which meets on the second Wednesdays.

We have posts several years old now in the forum, reporting on my attempts to try to set up a conversation with this gent and forum members. As it happened, it appeared at the time that no one was interested in the opportunity, so we laid it to rest.

The gent just affirmed that if we ever get an audience he would be happy to talk to them about his experiences. I asked if his experience might be dated, but he assured me that things change very slowly at the South Pole station(s) so his experience should be current.

That would particularly seem true (to me as I think about it) in trying to cast the experience forward to a Mars base of some kind.

(th)

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#17 2022-09-15 14:31:44

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

'Almost 70 years after being taken as souvenirs, historic artefacts to be returned to Antarctica'
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/ … antarctica

McMurdo Station UV index
https://www.weatheronline.co.uk/Antarct … Vindex.htm

British 360° tour of Halley VI Research Station
https://halley360.antarcti.co/

On thin ice: China and the future of Antarctica

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrImvkzPD28

tahanson43206 wrote:

That would particularly seem true (to me as I think about it) in trying to cast the experience forward to a Mars base of some kind.

(th)

I wonder if the politics of Antarctica will be similar to the future politics of the Moon and Mars?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-15 14:38:04)

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#18 2022-09-15 15:50:02

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Antarctic or South Polar Skuas
https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarcti … _skuas.php
Catharacta maccormicki

Feeding & diet: The mainstay of skuas diet is fish and krill, though penguins, as eggs, chicks and carrion form a variable but sometimes exclusive supplement depending on location. Fish may be obtained by stealing it from other birds, particularly gulls.

A social media channel called ' Air and Space Power Centre'

Support for Scientists from the Australian Defense Force?

Air Logistics Support in Todays Antarctica SDNLDR Lauren Bishop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu2Imw5q38Q

Cold, hard facts missing from Antarctic cooling post
https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/cold-h … ling-post/

Scientists propose controversial plan to refreeze North and South Poles by spraying sulphur dioxide into atmosphere
https://seasideradio.co.uk/news/world/i … atmosphere

like something from a scifi movie but what could go wrong?

Amundsen-Scott South Pole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bNRNqaKxZ8

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-15 16:05:47)

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#19 2022-09-16 05:51:23

Mars_B4_Moon
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Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

There’s a Massive Antarctic Exploration Vehicle Lost Somewhere at the Bottom of the World
https://www.thedrive.com/news/33433/the … -the-world

You'd think a massive machine like this would still exist somewhere, even in pieces. And surely they made more than one for the journey. But no—the single Snow Cruiser built is lost somewhere in Antarctica (or at the bottom of the Southern Ocean). Just where exactly is an international mystery that's likely to remain unsolved forever.

Antarctic Snow Cruiser was a vehicle designed from 1937 to 1939 under the direction of Thomas Poulter, intended to facilitate transport in Antarctica during the United States Antarctic Service Expedition. Excess electrical power could be stored in batteries for running lights and equipment when the engine was not running. The diesel-electric drive train allowed for smaller engines and more space for the crew, due to the elimination of large mechanical drive components throughout the vehicle. This is possibly the first application of a diesel-electric powertrain in a four-wheeled vehicle of this size; this design is now common in large modern mining trucks.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/ … ed/424851/

Art work

Polar Snow Crawler 1930s inspired
https://wordlesstech.com/polar-snow-cra … -inspired/

diseno-art.com and/or Jeff Darling.

Polar-Snow-Crawler-PSC-001-1.
https://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages … avy-2.html
This is a modern design of Antarctic Snow Cruiser of Tomas Poulter for Admiral Richard Byrd's expedition.


http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/ … icles.html

Misplaced Antarctic Snow Cruiser
https://americandigest.org/mt-archives/ … cruise.php



Forty Years Ago, Over The Frozen Wastes Of Antarctica, A Beech 17 Staggerwing And Its Snow Cruiser Mother Ship, Explored The Unknown Continent In A Magnificent Achievement, Forgotten By History!

https://web.archive.org/web/20090314053 … _1980.html

The Snow Cruiser was a mammoth, self-contained vehicle that carried its own Staggerwing Beech scout plane like an eagle perched on the back of a turtle. Straight out of science fiction. the Snow Cruiser was conceived by Dr. Thomas C. Poulter, the Director of the Research Foundation of the Armour Institute of Technology (now Illinois Institute of Technology) in Chicago. Dr. Poulter had been the second-in-command of the 1933-35 Byrd Antarctic Expedition, and determined to improve transportation over the forbidding, snowbound landscape, which wore out dogteams within a few hours, he developed the Snow Cruiser.

Another interesting topic on newmars
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10107
'Nuclear Powered Crawler-Transporter for Mars'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-16 05:57:53)

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#20 2022-09-22 03:27:31

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Scientists find evidence of fungal organism Histoplasma capsulatum in Antarctica
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220 … ctica.aspx

Mars Astrobiological Cave And Internal Habitability Explorer (MACIE): A New Frontiers Mission Concept
https://astrobiology.com/2021/05/mars-a … ncept.html

Earth vs. Mars: Polar Regions Compared
by Oceanwide Expeditions Blog
https://oceanwide-expeditions.com/blog/ … s-compared

Peas in a pod or polar opposites?

It’s common knowledge that Mars, like Earth, has its own polar regions - typically called the Martian ice caps - and that these regions, also like Earth, are located at the north and south poles and have much lower temperatures than the areas in-between...

The water ice underneath Mars’s dry ice sheath is gargantuan by contrast, two km (1.2 miles) thick in the north and a respectable three km (1.7 miles) thick in the south.

'This makes Antarctica the closest equivalent to Mars in terms of ice volume, since Antarctica’s sheets are around the same thickness. Moreover, Antarctica’s Dry Valleys are so Mars-like they’ve even been used as a testing ground for future Martian outposts.

Earth’s North Pole, on the other hand, is unlike the Martian one in that it’s basically just shifting sheets of ice over a liquid ocean.

Nothing like this exists on Mars, if it ever did. Though there is indeed evidence that Mars once had liquid oceans, they have long ago turned to ice, vapor, and small brines in the soil - a clean polar desert by any reckoning.

T.E. Lawrence would’ve loved it.'



Antarctica’s volcanic ice caves
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/2013 … -ice-caves
Mount Erebus is the most southerly active volcano on the planet. It began to form about 1.3 million years ago and today stands 3,794m above sea level. Its slopes are covered with snow and ice, glaciers, crevasses and the occasional lava flow, but steam usually rises from its summit, betraying the intense heat within. If Erebus were a dessert, it would be a reverse Baked Alaska – frozen on the outside and hot in the middle.

NASA Found a Giant Underground Cavern in Antarctica Almost the Size of Manhattan
https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc … manhattan/

A radar image of Thwaites from 2011 to 2017. The cavern is visible as the growing red blob in the center of the image. The noisy red and blue part in the bottom corner comes from ice breaking off into the sea.

Previously Unknown Loss of Antarctic Ice Discovered by NASA – “Antarctica Is Crumbling at Its Edges”
https://scitechdaily.com/previously-unk … its-edges/

Brazil’s Antarctic program to get new research ship in 2025
https://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/en/ger … -ship-2025

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#21 2022-09-22 09:06:04

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Spam in a Can for dinner, spread of culture and Churches and Post Office and Schools. Claimed by 3  Countries or Nations King George Island first claimed by British, Argentinian Spanish Isla 25 de Mayo, Chilean Spanish Isla Rey Jorge. Orthodox Religion and China now building its 5th base, dangerous weather elements prevented a visit to the S.Korean base, documentary talks about international cooperation and shows the nature, ecosystem and wildlife of the region.

'Inside Antarctica's Bizarre International Research Town'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQOTgs8I2w

Changes in global atmosphere and seas make it one of the 3 fastest warming areas on the planet

There have also been previous scientific rumors of Mars life in meteorites found in Antarctica, maybe not so far from planet Mars.

News

'Scientists chart 45 million years of Antarctic temperature change'

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2022/ … ure-change

‘Black Summer’ bushfires linked damaged ozone hole over Antarctica, study finds
(subscribe paywall)

https://www.ntnews.com.au/news/national … ed49fbfca0

A ‘fire-breathing dragon of clouds’ released during Australia’s 2019 bushfires had a worrying impact on the ozone layer over Antarctica, a new study has found.

Australia’s Black Summer bushfires linked to largest stratospheric warming in three decades
https://cosmosmagazine.com/earth/bushfi … c-warming/
More evidence that the smoke from the fires may have prolonged the life of the hole in the ozone layer.

The study, published in Nature Scientific Reports, links the smoke aerosols to abnormally high stratospheric temperatures, which were the highest recorded since the early 1990s.

The authors report an initial plume of smoke reached an altitude of 16 kilometres on December 31, 2019 followed by a similar plume on January 12, 2020. The smoke aerosols eventually reached altitudes of 25 to 35 kilometres detected throughout 2020.

Using data from the CALIPSO and Suomi National Polar-orbiting Partnership satellites to monitor aerosol levels in the stratosphere in the southern hemisphere between December 2019 and 2020, the researchers concluded the smoke aerosols emitted from the Australian bushfires led to increased stratospheric temperatures of about 0.7 degrees Celsius.

The study backs up findings from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) earlier this year that bushfire smoke may have set back efforts to reduce ozone-depleting emissions under the Montreal Protocol.

The MIT report in February found the fires injected over one million tons of smoke particles into the atmosphere, reaching up to 35 km above Earth’s surface — a mass and reach comparable to that of an erupting volcano.

Jennifer Chu, a science reporter at the MIT News Office says atmospheric chemists at MIT found the smoke from those fires set off chemical reactions in the stratosphere that contributed to the destruction of ozone, which shields the Earth from incoming ultraviolet radiation.

“The study was the first to establish a chemical link between wildfire smoke and ozone depletion.

“In March 2020, shortly after the fires subsided, the team observed a sharp drop in nitrogen dioxide in the stratosphere, which is the first step in a chemical cascade known to end in ozone depletion. The researchers found this drop in nitrogen dioxide directly correlates with the amount of smoke that the fires released into the stratosphere. They estimate that this smoke-induced chemistry depleted the column of ozone by 1%.

In 2020, the Australia fires burnt an estimated 14.3 million hectares (35 million acres; 143,000 square kilometres; 55,000 square miles), destroyed over 3,000 buildings (including 2,779 homes) and killed at least 34 people The 2019–20 Australian bushfire season[a] (Black Summer), was a period of bushfires in many parts of Australia, which, due to its unusual intensity, size, duration, and uncontrollable dimension, is considered a megafire.
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/10/79516941 … lion-acres

445 indirect who died later from smoke inhalation

Australian firefighters capture moment their truck is overrun by a bushfire
2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvy2siEwOZ0
'Dramatic images from massive fires in Australia'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Tzw5QwA0k


Scientists predict the hole in the ozone layer will close in the next 50 years

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/09/ … drop-by-50

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-22 09:21:37)

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#22 2022-09-22 15:01:27

Mars_B4_Moon
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Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

SpaceX Is Testing Out Starlink Internet in Antarctica Using Space Lasers
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2022/09/spac … ce-lasers/

RNZAF flight signals start of Antarctic summer
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/303243-r … ummer.html
The first group of New Zealand Defence Force personnel have arrived in Antarctica

Storming Antarctica (Full Episode)  - National Geographic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtAL8y2lACs

the coldest temperature ever recorded, the strongest ever sustained wind, not a single tree, the least explored continent, barely anything can survive.

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#23 2022-09-22 17:38:14

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Polheim or "Home at the Pole" was Roald Amundsen's name for his camp, the first ever at the South Pole, the Scott Base became the name for a New Zealand Antarctic research station at Pram Point on Ross Island near Mount Erebus. Will the Chronology of Mars be similar to the Poles on Earth? What drove Shackleton a challenge to meet new feats and records that others were already successful in achieving? What drives people to succeed near time on a very edge of failure tuned to success. 


tahanson43206 wrote:

That would particularly seem true (to me as I think about it) in trying to cast the experience forward to a Mars base of some kind.

(th)

Maybe the landscape is unique and alien for people back then and like Mars is so unique to us now, in an older time even more cold, unforgiving and it pushes people. Lessons still studied like the launch of Sputnik, the failure and success of Apollo 13, the Sun Tzu the Art of War


Leading in Hard Times: Lessons from Shackleton
https://leadershipcenter.wharton.upenn. … hackleton/
    “For scientific discovery give me Scott; for speed and efficiency of travel give me Amundsen; but when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton.”
    – Antarctic explorer, Sir Raymond Priestly

Be honest and clear. Those in authority need to help one and all to understand reality, as best as we can possibly understand it.  Truth and clarity on the part of those in charge help those not in charge to stay calm and to trust that those in charge deserve to be in charge.  In Shackleton’s case, that meant the following.  Icebound for nearly 300 days, their ship, the Endurance sank.  In anticipation, Shackleton had ordered evacuation and the establishment of a camp on the ice.  Everyone had heard and felt the crushing grip of the ice for months and especially over the preceding few weeks.  The moment to abandon ship came.  Gathered on the ice, the expedition listened to Shackleton.  Where would his legendary optimism and tenacity lead his thinking?  Would he advocate pushing on with the mission to cross the continent?  Shackleton, financially invested in this expedition up to and over the crown of his head, stated simply and calmly, ‘Ship and stores gone, so now we go home.’

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-22 17:42:42)

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#24 2022-09-24 06:23:10

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Antarctica 3D: On the Edge
https://www.chronogram.com/hudsonvalley … id=2242158
An interview with filmmaker Jon Bowermaster

'What I Do In Antarctica - South Pole Edition!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvH-Ve7n8I

Flight to the South Pole (1968) Documentary on Aerial Operations in Antarctica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mokekPCVdug

Organic Molecules Help Retain Iron Content in Greenland and Antarctic Waters
https://www.azocleantech.com/news.aspx?newsID=30047
Although insufficient iron is a limiting factor for the growth of algae in the oceans, more dissolved iron present in the ocean East of Greenland as a result of the melting of the Greenland ice sheet does not facilitate more algal growth in the region.

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#25 2022-09-25 06:45:03

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 4,330

Re: Antarctica as a Mars Analogue

Beth Healey: meet the doctor who braved remotest Antarctica in the name of space exploration
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/lo … 40031.html
The 29-year-old returned to the UK in January, having spent more than a year on the ultra-remote Concordia base as the European Space Agency’s research doctor

See an Exquisite 'Sun Pillar' Optical Illusion Glowing in Antarctica

Beam me up, Scotty.

https://www.cnet.com/science/see-an-exq … ntarctica/

The picture shows an expanse of snow with fencing and other signs of human habitation in the mix. The sun appears to be sending up an orange-yellow beam of light shooting from the horizon into the sky.

the European Space Agency described the phenomenon as a "sun pillar" optical illusion created from sunlight reflecting from tiny ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere

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