COTS - status

SpaceNut · 2021-09-17 18:14:47

How to manage a nut in space so that you do not die by the one but what if its more? Since there are other possible out comes maybe more testing in stressful situations might be in order.
I am sure they all learn how to push buttons to control the ship but you could also switch on the auto pilot control system for remote control from the earths system control center to take over.

GW Johnson · 2021-10-07 08:08:45

From AIAA's "Daily Launch" email newsletter for today. GW

Starliner Won’t Attempt Launch Again This Year; Astronauts Reassigned To SpaceX Mission
The Wall Street Journal (10/6, Subscription Publication) reports that NASA announced Wednesday that The Boeing Company’s Starliner will not attempt a launch again this year, and the two astronauts intended to fly on it have been reassigned to a mission using a SpaceX ship.

Bloomberg (10/6) reports that astronauts Nicole Mann and Josh Cassada “will transfer from the Starliner to launch aboard NASA’s Crew-5 mission on a SpaceX Dragon, which is scheduled to fly late next year.”

The Hill (10/6) reports that Boeing said, “we understand the agency’s need to make adjustments to get members of the current astronaut class flying experience on an operational vehicle while the development of the Starliner spacecraft continues. We fully support NASA’s decisions and remain committed to putting the safety of the astronauts who will fly on our vehicle first.”

SPACE (10/6) reports that while Starliner waits for its valve issue to be resolved, SpaceX “has already launched one crewed test mission and two operational flights to the orbiting lab with its Falcon 9 rocket and Crew Dragon capsule, and the company is gearing up for the liftoff of its third contracted flight, Crew-3, later this month.”

kbd512 · 2021-10-07 21:31:05

Well, so much for competition.

We really can't get at least two companies to produce a human-rated space capsule?

Something is seriously messed up over there at Boeing, and Lockheed-Martin, for that matter.

SpaceNut · 2021-10-08 20:35:10

If it was not for the SLS tiring up all of their time along with Boeing airplane issues maybe they could get something done.

SpaceNut · 2021-10-09 17:39:09

Boeing's next Starliner test flight moves to first half of 2022

Engineers have narrowed down the likely causes of the oxidizer isolation valve problem that forced the team to scrap the August 2021 launch, but it remains a "complex issue" that requires a "methodical approach" to solve, according to Commercial Crew Program manager Steve Stich.

So a small tweak of the capsule or fix the software sensor issues...

SpaceNut · 2021-12-29 10:09:10

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/
Boeing to Move Up Service Modules for Commercial Crew Flight Tests

“NASA has been working side-by-side with Boeing on the service module valve investigation, including leveraging the agency’s materials and propellants expertise to better characterize the potential causes of the issue,” said Steve Stich, manager, NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.
Following extensive testing and analysis of oxidizer isolation valves on Boeing’s CST-100 Starliner service module propulsion system, Boeing has decided to move up service modules currently in production for its upcoming uncrewed and crewed flight tests to the International Space Station as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

GW Johnson · 2021-12-29 16:11:35

I hate when spin trumps truth.

It appears to me that the corroded valves pretty much "destroyed" the service module they were going to fly. It has to be either torn apart and rebuilt, or scrapped. Nobody is saying.

Whatever "fix" they decided to use for the valve corrosion problem, was easier to implement on service modules still being built, which is why they are saying they will use one still currently "in-production" for the unmanned test flight to ISS, instead of the one they had.

Did you notice also that nobody has yet said anything substantive about what that "fix" is for the corroded valve problem? That suggests they have some ideas, but no "sure things". Which is why I think we will likely see that "fix" change with each flight for a while.

We will see if Starliner ever becomes a real taxi to the ISS. Boeing's corporate management has yet to learn that good engineering and good reputation are absolute constraints upon their quest to maximize profit above all else. Not doing the good engineering with 737MAX, 777X, and 787 assembly, plus being decades late and billions in the red with SLS, has already ruined their reputation with a bunch of folks. It will take years to rebuild that. The proximate cause is typical business school BS.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-12-29 16:13:05)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-10 07:50:33

SpaceX launches three private visitors to space station

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n … ation-42m/

Orbital Transportation Services?

Rocketplane Kistler received only $32.1 million before NASA terminated their contract for failure to complete milestones.

Cygnus spacecraft is an expendable American cargo spacecraft developed by Orbital Sciences Corporation and now manufactured and launched by Northrop Grumman Space Systems
https://web.archive.org/web/20130417064 … es-cygnus/

Bill Gerstenmaier many years back already confirmed that NASA was no longer purchasing any cargo resupply services from Russia and would rely solely on the American CRS vehicles, the SpaceX Dragon and Orbital Sciences' Cygnus; with the exception of a few vehicle-specific payloads delivered on the European ATV and the Japanese HTV
https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/youtu … JNNiYPyAeQ

The new flight launched on 8 April 2022, from Kennedy Space Center. The crew consists of Michael López-Alegría, a professionally trained astronaut hired by Axiom Space, Eytan Stibbe from Israel, Larry Connor from the United States and Mark Pathy from Canada.

After SpaceX launch from KSC, Axiom-1 private-astronaut mission docks with space station

https://www.yahoo.com/now/spacex-launch … 17829.html

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-04-10 07:56:05)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-09 08:39:36

Telstar 1 although it no longer works, it is still in Earth orbit. Planned private spaceflights beyond Earth orbit include personal spaceflights around the Moon. Planned private spaceflights beyond Earth orbit include solar sailing concept prototypes such as 'LightSail' The Planetary Society stated that they had raised LightSail 2 orbit by a measurable amount, although it has spent a significant amount of its time randomly tumbling. SpaceHab has become Astrotech Corporation Prior to the 2014 Lockheed Martin acquisition, Astrotech provided both the government and commercial space markets with satellite processing services. Andrews Space is now Spaceflight Systems, a subsidiary of Spaceflight Industries, Inc. ISS contest or Interplanet COTS was a NASA strategy for cargo to ISS, COTS was a demonstration of the Private Sectors Commercial Partners’ (CPs) capability, NASA believes the COTS saved them Billions.

RocketPlane Kistler missed financial milestones and NASA terminated funding for the project. Transformational Space Corporation) was an American aerospace company which participated in NASA's COTS, and later, Commercial Crew Development, October 2008 SpaceDev officials announced that the company would be acquired by Sierra Nevada Corporation, RocketPlane Kistler filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2010
http://www.newspacejournal.com/2010/07/ … cketplane/

Momentus' Vigoride spacecraft arrives at launch site for first flight with SpaceX
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Mome … X_999.html
Momentus Inc. (NASDAQ: MNTS), a U.S. commercial space company that plans to offer transportation and other in-space infrastructure services, has announced that its Vigoride orbital transfer vehicle has arrived at Cape Canaveral, Florida, for its inaugural launch.
The Vigoride spacecraft and customer payloads will now be integrated with SpaceX's Falcon 9 launch vehicle ahead of the Transporter-5 mission targeted for launch in May. The primary goals of Vigoride's inaugural mission are to test the spacecraft in space, learn from any issues encountered, and incorporate lessons learned into future vehicles. Momentus will also take customer payloads to orbit and generate a small amount of revenue.

First all-private crew to International Space Station splashes down safely
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/axiom1- … -1.6430266

Bernie Sanders makes a dishonest attack on commercial space flight
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rest … ace-flight

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-05-09 08:56:37)

GW Johnson · 2022-05-14 14:40:13

From 5-12-22 “Daily Launch”:

Disagreement On “Root Cause” Of Valve Issue Ahead Of Starliner Launch

Reuters (5/11) reports that The Boeing Company is in a disagreement “with Aerojet Rocketdyne (AJRD.N), a key supplier for its Starliner spacecraft, as the U.S. aerospace giant races to test launch the uncrewed astronaut capsule and mend its reputation in the space sector, people familiar with the matter said.” The CST-100 Starliner “is scheduled for a May 19 Florida launch atop an Atlas 5 rocket to the International Space Station, with Boeing aiming to show NASA that the spacecraft is safe to ferry astronauts to and from the orbiting outpost.” The sources indicated that Boeing and Aerojet “are at odds over the cause of a problem involving fuel valves in the Starliner propulsion system that forced a postponement of a test flight last July, with the two companies faulting one another.”

From the 5-13-22 “Daily Launch”:

NASA Clears Starliner For Launch Next Week

Spaceflight Now (5/11) reported that NASA officials “cleared Boeing’s Starliner crew capsule for launch next week in a flight readiness review Wednesday, moving a step closer toward a critical unpiloted demonstration flight to attempt docking at the International Space Station and check off other test objectives left unaccomplished on a problem-plagued mission two-and-a-half years ago.” The Starliner spacecraft “is set to launch from Cape Canaveral on the Orbital Flight Test-2, or OFT-2, mission May 19 aboard a United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket.”

SPACE (5/12) reports that Starliner is on track “to launch on May 19 at 6:54 p.m. EDT (2254 GMT) from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station’s Space Launch Complex 41 in coastal Florida – assuming no weather or technical issues arise.”

Space News (5/12, Subscription Publication) reports that The Boeing Company “is considering redesigning the propellant valves on future CST-100 Starliner commercial crew spacecraft as a long-term solution to the corrosion problem those valves suffered last year.”

My takes:

Makes you wonder why NASA cleared the launch, when Boeing and Aerojet Rocketdyne are publicly pointing fingers at each other over the valve corrosion problem experienced last time.

It also makes you wonder why, after two and a half years, that the “long term solution” (other than a “redesign”) to the valve corrosion problem still eludes Boeing.

See also what I said in post 332 above.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2022-05-14 14:42:05)

SpaceNut · 2022-05-14 16:33:16

It appeared that the valves were cleaned after they had seen fuel which would indicate a chemical reaction which caused the issue

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-21 15:26:51

Boeing's Starliner spaceship docks with ISS in high-stakes test mission

https://phys.org/news/2022-05-boeing-st … takes.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-26 08:51:00

Russia said it is out in 2024

From the ISS discussion

GW Johnson wrote:

NASA and ESA thus have a bit less than 2 years in which to perfect refueling on-orbit and devising some means of re-boost and debris-avoidance propulsion.

Ion thruster or electric propulsion drives can be used on a space station, China's Tiangong space station is fitted with ion thrusters, SpaceX's Starlink satellite constellation uses Hall-effect thrusters, ESA's Gravity Field and Steady-State Ocean Circulation Explorer (GOCE) used ion propulsion and Japanese Hayabusa probe was powered by four xenon ion engines, the Gateway Moon mission will use ion drives, Power and Propulsion Element (PPE) is a module on the Lunar Gateway will provides ion propulsion capabilities. In 2021 Nauka docked and began firing its engine thrusters in error, causing the entire space station to make one and a half full rotations before the thrusters ran out of fuel, Zvezda contains the Elektron system that electrolyzes condensed humidity and waste water to provide hydrogen and oxygen, the Service Module has 16 small thrusters as well as two large 3,070-newton (690 lbf) thrusters the thrusters are pressure-fed from four tanksthe oxidizer used for the propulsion system is dinitrogen tetroxide, the Zarya module provides sizable battery power, Unity connecting also known as Node 1, connects the Russian and United States segments of the station, and is where crew eat meals together.

UnCrewed Dragon mission
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8317
Cygnus modules cargo craft developed by Orbital Sciences Corporation and now manufactured and launched by Northrop Grumman
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9614

The Chinese also have a Soyuz style Shenzhou craft and a 'Tianzhou' an automated cargo resupply its own modular space station, it is not known if China's craft could link with the ISS also there is a political ban on NASA working with the Chinese.

some older discussion of the retirement of Shuttle and other options like HTV from Japan
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1623
ESA's module or vehicle discussion 'ATV as a tug' 10,470 kg (23,080 lb) and carries Propellant, water, air, payload and experiments, ATV propellant used for re-boost monomethylhydrazine fuel and N2O4 oxidizer is of a different type from the payload refueling propellant UDMH fuel plus N2O4 oxidizer.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5400

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-07-26 08:52:08)

GW Johnson · 2022-07-26 13:17:02

Pushing a 100 pound satellite vs a 100 ton space station is only a matter of 3 orders of magnitude difference in the thrust required of your electric thruster! What you say about the possibility of re-boost by electric propulsion is true. It's just that nobody is yet building electric thruster items in that size range yet, nor are the power supplies for it available yet. Getting these ready in 2 years is just not practical.

Debris avoidance is a fast turnaround sort of thing. You simply need the propellant-burning rocket thrusters for that. I'm unsure which hydrazine the Russians were using, which in turn is what the ISS thrusters use, but it really does not make all that much difference. Plain hydrazine, UDMH, and MMH differ slightly in performance with different freezepoints. You can mix them, actually: Aerozine-50 is half and half plain hydrazine and UDMH. They all use NTO as their hypergolic-ignition oxidizer, which massively simplifies thruster engine design, especially for pressure-fed thruster systems. Because they are small, the much heavier tanks for a simple pressure-fed system are well worth it.

Short term (2 years), the best thing to do is modify Cygnus to hold a lot more propellant, and use that for your re-boost/debris avoidance propulsion. Plus, learn how to refuel it in orbit, so you don't have to shoot so many of them up there.

Longer term, do electric propulsion re-boost. But you still need the propellant-burning thrusters for debris avoidance.

GW

GW Johnson · 2022-07-26 13:29:22

For hydrazines using NTO as oxidizer, at attitude thruster Pc near 100 psia:

N2H4 (plain) c* = 5740 fps r=1.36 sp.gr = 1.004 FP = 34.7 F
CN2H6 (mmh) c* = 5570 fps r = 2.26 sp.gr = 0.874 FP = -62.3 F
UDMH c* = 5520 fps r = 2.7 sp.gr = 0.786 FP = -71.0 F
Aerozine-50 c* = 5570 fps r = 2.0 sp.gr = 0.898 FP = 18.8 F

The NTO (N2O4) has FP = 11.8 F and BP = 70.1 F, with a 77 F vapor pressure of 17 psia (you have to keep it in a pressure tank for it to stay liquid, at room temperatures).

r-value changes with hydrazine choice. You have to be able to adjust that, and have adequate tank sizes, in order to switch among the hydrazines.

To get Isp, you need to figure the thrust coefficient CF of your thruster nozzle. In a pressure-fed system, everything drawn from the tanks goes through the nozzle. In that case Isp = c*CF/gc, where gc is the gravity constant that makes your units work out. It's 32.174 in US customary.

Sorry about the US customary units, but it's an old source, dating from the 1960's.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2022-07-26 13:33:41)

SpaceNut · 2022-07-26 19:46:17

If the cygnus is to do this job for the remaining life of the ISS we would want to use the extended ships base design size and convert the unit to just boost launched design intended use with a redesigned internal tank that would allow for the extended use.

The trick is to not multi-task the units use but to single design it for its purpose within the launch bounds of the carrier rockets lift or launch payload design.

SpaceNut · 2022-09-11 12:42:45

Maybe we have a topic for the small rockets such as firefly
Firefly Aerospace will take another crack at reaching orbit on Sunday (Sept. 11), and you can watch it live.

SpaceNut · 2022-09-18 17:47:58

The question will be answered by Boeing Starliner Will Fly 6 Times -- and Maybe Never Again

This is a curious conclusion to a program that began with a controversial decision -- to pay Boeing 61.5% more for the same work SpaceX would be performing
astronaut "seats" aboard SpaceX's Crew Dragon have also proven much cheaper than contracted prices for seats on Boeing's Starliner. Indeed, after crunching the numbers, Ars Technica determined that, at present prices, Boeing is actually charging 2.1 times more per seat than SpaceX is. And the disparity is growing.
Over the course of 56 total "seats" flown to ISS across 14 missions, SpaceX's prices will work out to an average of $88 million per astronaut, versus $183 million per astronaut for Boeing, according to Ars Technica. Moreover, SpaceX's seat cost has been actually falling over time, so that the gap in prices is growing.
According to NASA's latest press release, the 20 seats covered by SpaceX's most recent award of five flights (at four astronauts per flight) will cost NASA only $1.44 billion, which works out to less than $72 million per seat -- an 18.5% reduction in price from the program's total cost and just 39% of what Boeing is charging for its seats.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-10 16:59:05

'Will Tom Cruise perform a spacewalk while shooting film on space station?'

https://www.space.com/tom-cruise-spacew … ce-station

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-26 05:15:45

Image: SpaceX CRS-12 cargo mission launch
https://phys.org/news/2017-08-image-spa … ssion.html

Space calendar 2022: Rocket launches, sky events, missions & more!
https://www.space.com/32286-space-calendar.html

Russia launches cargo spacecraft toward International Space Station (video)
https://www.space.com/russia-progress-8 … aft-launch

SpaceNut · 2022-10-26 19:56:30

Space x is a busy work horse for the station but where are the others?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-27 05:01:36

Quantum Space announces first cislunar mission

https://spacenews.com/quantum-space-ann … r-mission/

SpaceX to fly first space tourist, Dennis Tito, around the moon

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/s … -the-moon/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-10-27 05:02:21)

SpaceNut · 2023-02-04 12:24:50

The level of choices is still on the increase and hope so with the prices of a flight.

Bigger, faster, farther: A batch of new rockets is set to blast into space this year AA176b4w.img?w=534&h=267&m=6

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-02-10 12:53:44

Astronaut Sen. Kelly praises "stunning" space business growth, calls for more rocket competition: “The commercial space sector is critical."

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/10/astrona … iness.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-21 19:25:29

Falcon 9 launches SES-18 and SES-19 to orbit

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1636889232102010881

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#326 2021-09-17 18:14:47

Re: COTS - status

#327 2021-10-07 08:08:45

Re: COTS - status

#328 2021-10-07 21:31:05

Re: COTS - status

#329 2021-10-08 20:35:10

Re: COTS - status

#330 2021-10-09 17:39:09

Re: COTS - status

#331 2021-12-29 10:09:10

Re: COTS - status

#332 2021-12-29 16:11:35

Re: COTS - status

#333 2022-04-10 07:50:33

Re: COTS - status

#334 2022-05-09 08:39:36

Re: COTS - status

#335 2022-05-14 14:40:13

Re: COTS - status

#336 2022-05-14 16:33:16

Re: COTS - status

#337 2022-05-21 15:26:51

Re: COTS - status

#338 2022-07-26 08:51:00

Re: COTS - status

#339 2022-07-26 13:17:02

Re: COTS - status

#340 2022-07-26 13:29:22

Re: COTS - status

#341 2022-07-26 19:46:17

Re: COTS - status

#342 2022-09-11 12:42:45

Re: COTS - status

#343 2022-09-18 17:47:58

Re: COTS - status

#344 2022-10-10 16:59:05

Re: COTS - status

#345 2022-10-26 05:15:45

Re: COTS - status

#346 2022-10-26 19:56:30

Re: COTS - status

#347 2022-10-27 05:01:36

Re: COTS - status

#348 2023-02-04 12:24:50

Re: COTS - status

#349 2023-02-10 12:53:44

Re: COTS - status

#350 2023-03-21 19:25:29

Re: COTS - status

Board footer