Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

SpaceNut · 2021-12-12 14:07:28

This is a diy home build but its the information that we can make use of.

https://youtu.be/vng-CACPow0
Our Complete Solar System Cost With Battery Backup! 10kw Of Power

https://www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=cou … experience
all of our solar components at Signature Solar

This will be important after the failure of its grid.

How many operable power plants will Texas have this winter? See a map by fuel type] b493981ca5e868adb3462a6a4f105803

kbd512 · 2021-12-12 16:10:25

I was informed by my wife yesterday that for the very first time, the power company cut us a check for $60 for our $100,000 ($60K equipment and install, $40K loan interest over 25 years) solar array. At that rate, it will only take 138.8 years for our home solar system to actually "pay for itself" (except that we received 1 check for 1 month of the year, and may receive 3 to 4 such checks per year, so if the solar panels last for 416.6 years, then we might actually make our money back.

How many of the rest of you are willing to wait for half a millennia for your solar roof to actually "pay for itself"?

We live in Houston, Texas, where sunlight is more common than dirt. If you live anywhere with less sunlight than Texas, then you might be waiting a bit longer. If you have $100K of disposable income, then you can run the same experiment that I did. If you don't, then you might want to consider more practical alternatives.

If we attempt to re-power human civilization with "clean and abundant solar power", can anyone else hazard a guess as to how that might turn out?

Calliban · 2021-12-13 16:16:54

Another type of home solar system is what we call a conservatory here in the UK. Basically a greenhouse that you build onto the south facing side of your house. When temperature in the greenhouse rises above about 17°C, you can heat your house using the conservatory without any active heating. And the conservatory is an extra room on the back of your house, which will boost it's resale value. Since heating is most of the energy use in an average dwelling, it makes sense to start there. My mum and dad built a conservatory covering about one half of the south facing side of their detached house about 5 years ago. They use a wood burner for heating and since they got the conservatory, the amount of wood they consume has reduced by half. My own house isn't suitable for a conservatory. I plan to move as soon as I can.

The French took the idea of a conservatory further and developed the Trombe wall. This was a dark wall built on the south facing side of property, with a sheet of glass over it and ducts at the top and bottom, entering the house. If I were to build a house from scratch, I would align the house such that the longest walls face north and south, with a two storey conservatory on the south facing side and only small windows facing north. Garages should be external to minimise heat loss. The roof would slope south, rather than the more common apex design. Solar air heating panels would line the entire area of the roof. At the centre of the house, between the cellar and the ground floor, I would put an insulated thermal storage tank, with a volume of around 50m3. Air would circulate through the panels and the tank. The tank would transfer heat into the house over autumn and winter by conduction. A wood burning stove would heat water and provide supplental space heating. Generally, if you can provide the space and water heating for a house using natural sunlight and biomass, then you have taken care of 80% of the energy consumption of the house.

If I were to attempt to generate electricity off grid, I would probably opt for an oversize wind turbine with a DG for backup. I would store excess wind energy as heat in the domestic hot water tank and the thermal storage tank. I would only need the DG when wind power was at persistently low levels. I worked out that I would need a 10kW wind turbine to cover my baseload electrical needs and the bulk of my winter heat needs. In the UK, it would provide about 3kWe on average. A turbine of that size would set me back about £80k ($100k). It wasn't worth it when I looked at it a few years back. Retail electricity rates in the UK are not about $0.36/kWh in US terms, ironically driven by the UK governments dash for wind power. And god only knows how expensive gas will be after next April. Now may be a good time to resurrect this project.

Last edited by Calliban (2021-12-13 16:36:26)

SpaceNut · 2021-12-13 20:26:51

Southern side of my home has intermittent trees that cast shade on the area that would be plausible for a greenhouse tent for the suns collected heat energy for sure. Down the road a bit there is a home that was set up with such a unit on the northern side of the home high above the house in front of it and it did make that home quite warm.
If I clear a crap ton of trees then its a bit more favorable other wise its a raised location above the roof line to take advantage of the suns energy.

I have wood to make heat with but since the cellar is the only place it could be placed the radiant heat would not warm the upstairs where we live in.

Not all properties are equal to the task of providing energy for its residents.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-14 17:36:27

Seems the Texans have criticized Governor Greg Abbott over power generation issues after he repeatedly boasted about the state's power grid. after "six power generation facilities" went offline Friday amid rising temperatures and high demand for power.

"We're asking Texans to conserve power when they can by setting their thermostats to 78-degrees or above and avoiding the usage of large appliances (such as dishwashers, washers and dryers) during peak hours between 3 p.m. and 8 p.m. through the weekend,"

Still no AC in my home and it reached 90 degrees inside, have felt a little under the weather as headache and heat are not a good combination. Have been drinking water but its not cold.. Got one drink earlier in the day wit ice in it but it felt better on the head....

kbd512 · 2022-05-14 22:16:08

SpaceNut,

Seems that Democrat Representative Veronica Escobar and "Beto" O'Rourke are the only Texans actually criticizing Governor Abbott in the Newsweek article. The article was written by Fatma Khaled of newsweek.

From Fatma Khaled's LinkedIn page:

Covering an array of news beats ranging from international news to LGBTQ, U.S. politics, and business, my primary goal is to deliver shoe-leather reporting that would give readers the full picture. Throughout my journalism career in the U.S. and Egypt, I have focused on breaking news, long-form, investigative work, documentary filmmaking, and multimedia storytelling.Covering

For someone who has a primary goal of reporting that would "give readers the full picture", there is a single mention of "reaching out to Governor Abbott's office for comment" in the very last line of the article, probably a whole 5 minutes before her article was printed, but no word on a reply before Newsweek decided to print the article. I do wonder about whether or not it'll ever be updated to indicate whether or not a response was received.

"Beto", the candidate who literally "ate dirt" after he lost his Senate race to Republican Senator Ted Cruz, and spending more money on a Senatorial election campaign than any other candidate in American history, promises that "when he is governor, he will fix the Texas electric grid". Naturally, precisely zero details are provided related to how "Beto" plans to do that. I find that this is a recurring theme with our Democrats. They will promise anything and everything to get elected to office, but then after being elected they do stupid stuff like Presiden Biden does every day, such as single-sourcing baby formula contracts with Abbott (the baby formula company, not the governor of Texas) for baby formula because the government gets kick-backs (a legalized form of bribery), so now there's a national shortage of baby formula after the baby formula maker had to shut down operations due to contamination of the production line equipment and presumably the product as well.

"Elect me, I'll fix all your problems. Just give up all your money and all your rights, and I'll solve everything." - nearly every Democrat in politics today

Some Democrats still wonder why total nutjobs like "Beto" O'Rourke are shown the door, no matter how much money they spend to try to get elected. After enough lying and outrageous behavior, eventually normal people quit listening to you because you have no answers and nothing to say that they haven't heard before.

The reckoning is coming this November. Unless Democrats quit doubling-down on stupid, it'll come again in 2024.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-16 19:04:18

More of the electrical grid game. Incumbent transmission owners have managed to secure for themselves a combination of exceptions to competitive processes, adoption of state “right of first refusal” laws, and other anti-competitive barriers to thwart competition and innovation in transmission planning and construction.

kbd512 · 2022-05-16 19:38:02

SpaceNut,

From your article:

...
The free market is the only way to lower the cost of upgrading and expanding our electricity grid. However, Biden administration appointees have stonewalled this effort by siding with utilities instead of consumers.
Incumbent electric utilities who oppose transmission competition would have you believe that electricity electrons stop at a state’s border. The vast majority of transmission is in interstate commerce and that is why it is subject to federal jurisdiction and why FERC action is needed to ensure that consumers benefit from competition and lower costs.

What a surprise there. Authoritarians won't do anything for "the little guy", except talk a good game before elections, then deliver whatever the people who already have most of the money and power want. I guess the consumer should simply be happy that they're permitted to have any energy to use at all. The proposed solution from the left, as always, is "more government". The government has already refused to do anything to help the consumer and is siding with the utility companies.

Why would we give the government more money and power to not do what it's already not doing (forcing open competition between service providers)?

Our elected officials have already been legally bribed, in the form of campaign contributions, to do the bidding of those who paid the largest bribes. Unless you paid your bribe, then they will do absolutely nothing for you. Politicians work for the people who have bribed them, not "We, The People".

SpaceNut · 2022-07-11 17:24:38

kbd512 wrote:

16 of my 78 solar panels are not producing electricity, their electronics failed within the first year of operation, and there are no replacement parts months later.

SpaceNut wrote:

Sorry to hear about the failed solar panels that died early in life due to improper handling on install and heat exposure for the electrical overstress, all 16 should be replaced under warranty.
The fact that they are semiconductor technology means that, even a 3 to 30v static charge to the panel's connection could have caused them to fail. They needed to be install still covered until fully connect to prevent this from happening. Normally the connection would stay grounded together until connections are made.

Saw this article today
Why Dead Solar Panels Will Soon Be Worth A Ton Of Money

The town back 3 or 4 years ago had their landfill with a proposed solar array designed and it fell flat into the abyss. Tonight, a resident asked the question in a town meeting as to what had happened. The board indicated that Eversource had put a stop to it going any further.

https://nobis-group.com/projects/farmin … velopment/
Design and permit a 3.7 MW solar array constructed upon the Farmington Municipal Landfill

https://www.nhsolargarden.com/

https://nobis-group.com/

SpaceNut · 2023-01-14 18:49:29

Today I got thinking about how the combine my solar thermal concentrator with solar panels and wondered about temperature rise and effected efficiency of the system.

How Does Heat Affect Solar Panel Efficiencies?

solar panel efficiency is affected negatively by temperature increases. Photovoltaic modules are tested at a temperature of 25 degrees C (STC) – about 77 degrees F., and depending on their installed location, heat can reduce output efficiency by 10-25%. As the temperature of the solar panel increases, its output current increases exponentially, while the voltage output is reduced linearly. In fact, the voltage reduction is so predictable, that it can be used to accurately measure temperature.

So, to get more out of the panels you need to cool them but how much?

The best way to determine your panel’s tolerance to heat is by looking at the manufacturer’s data sheet. There, you’ll see a term called the “temperature coefficient (Pmax.)” This is the maximum power temperature coefficient. It tells you how much power the panel will lose when the temperature rises by 1°C above 25°C. @ STC (STC is the Standard Test Condition temperature where the module’s nameplate power is determined).
For example, the temperature coefficient of a solar panel might be -.258% per 1 degree Celsius. So, for every degree above 25°C, the maximum power of the solar panel falls by .258%, for every degree below, it increases by .258%. What this means no matter where you are, your panel may be affected by seasonal variations. However, the temperature coefficient also tells you that efficiency increases in temperatures lower than 25°C. So, in most climates, the efficiency will balance out over the long run.
For a geographic region where temperatures higher than 25 degrees C. are the norm, one can consider alternatives to Mono or Polycrystalline modules, which have the highest efficiency (At 1:1 concentration), but also the highest temperature coefficient at PMAX. Project designers may want to consider a thin film or CdTe module – or in the case of a very large project, High Concentration PV, which is designed for hot climates, but not applicable for small projects.

So far, I have not found the means to compensate for this temperature rise.

SpaceNut · 2023-01-18 20:54:43

I found that the weather history for NH has shown why the number of panels are so high to be able to support the energy needs for this state.

Since I have a need for 30 kwhr a day during the summer half the year and 40 kwhr in the winter months.
A none tracked system receives about 3 hours during the summer each day, but winter is just 2 hrs it's important to understand that you are in energy surplus in the summer if you over size the system for winter full power needs.

That said the daily needs against the number of days that you get 100% sun being 25% days of a month with the next 25% days getting maybe 50% of received energy with the last 50% of the month days being 50 % to zero does not bode well. It's that latter that is problematic for buy the correct size system.

SpaceNut · 2023-04-01 12:28:59

Tesla’s latest mega-popular product isn’t a car — and it could help save you $1,500 a year

AA19knuD.img?w=534&h=356&m=6

Tesla solar panels offer a variety of benefits for homeowners. First, they’re designed to be aesthetically pleasing, with a sleek, modern look that can enhance the appearance of your home.
They’re also designed to be durable and long-lasting, with a 25-year warranty.
The primary benefit of Tesla solar panels may be the monthly savings on your electricity bill. Instead of spending a ton on inflated energy bills, you can capture your power from the sun and save cash while helping cool down the planet.
Although Tesla solar panels offer many benefits, there are some tradeoffs to consider. The main tradeoff relates to the price of the Tesla panels.
While they’re more efficient than other solar arrays — able to generate more electricity — they’re also often more expensive than other types of solar panels. According to SolarReviews.com, Tesla solar panels can range in price from $10,000 to $48,000, depending on the size of the installation, among other factors.

Up front cost and slow payback for an undersized system is the issue.

SpaceNut · 2023-04-15 20:21:30

I have taken quite the energy beating for winter.
Dec. 774kwhr $ 1 rate of $0.22566kwhr
Jan. 841kwhr $263.79 ave. 25kwhr at 34 day cycle 1 rate of $0.22566kwhr
Feb. 1,125kwhr $369.92 ave. 56kwhr at 29 day cycle 2 rates 803.60kwhr/321.40kwhr $0.22566/$0.20221
Mar. 1,630kwhr $507.83 ave. 40kwhr at 28 day cycle 1 rate of $0.20221kwhr
Apr. 1,341kwhr $427.27 ave. 42kwhr at 32 day cycle 1 rate of $0.20221kwhr

Sure, next month should drop back down under 800kwhr but it's still twice the cost over last year for the same month.

Here is why the decades-old law, there is nothing that regulators can do about it.

According to officials, customers will see their electric bills increase by about $80 a month. Eversource said global demand has resulted in historically high energy supply prices.
Energy supply prices change twice a year, and this rate hike would last at least from Jan. 1, 2023, through June 30, 2023.

kbd512 · 2023-04-16 11:38:28

SpaceNut,

From that experience, what did you learn about the necessity for cheap / reliable / abundant energy, if anything?

SpaceNut · 2023-04-16 14:33:19

That cheap is not in the vocabulary of Eversource power company and that rate adjusting based on kwhrs used should be done away with since they are blocking any other sources that would make it cheaper. That a seasonal fuel cost adjustment is also a problem since the other half of the year was at $0.10669kwhr rate used.
In closing cheap energy will never come for the providers that own the pole near your home.

kbd512 · 2023-04-16 16:36:14

SpaceNut,

Why not take all of your good ideas and see if you can apply them at scale?

If you think Eversource's business practices are particularly egregious, why not show everyone else how it should be done?

What's the probability that your neighbors share the same viewpoints? Have you talked to them to get their take on it?

If you're all like-minded and even modestly clever, then why not work out amongst yourselves what a better solution would be?

SpaceNut · 2023-04-18 23:31:09

I need to worry first about my energy deficiency which is also cash strapped as well long before picking a better site to afford for scale up for others.

As noted, they have no laws to stop them from upping the rates every 6 months and since cost of fuels are not going down, we will expect to have it rise again in the fall.

My neighbor has a slightly better site but not by much for solar in any form. They do have chickens for eggs and come to eat the bugs.

kbd512 · 2023-04-19 13:57:32

SpaceNut,

Maybe solar power is not the right way to go where you live.

Out of curiosity, 800kWh/month is equal to about 21 gallons of heating oil, or $90 at current prices.

Are you unable to obtain or afford that much fuel per month from a local station?

How about old deep fat fryer oil that you use pork gelatin to wash out and trap the impurities?

Stir a teaspoon of powdered pork gelatin into boiling water, mix it into the used fryer oil, let it sit outside overnight to solidify, bring the fuel inside, the "clean" fuel should remain at the top while the "frozen gelatin" sinks to the bottom (any old milk jug or Clorox bottle or even a pot is fine), and then you can use the rest of the oil as diesel fuel or for home heating purposes.

SpaceNut · 2023-04-19 21:02:27

oil deliveries are 100 gallons minimum. That would not even last a month for heating. 800kwhr is roughly a 2kw generator running continuously. A diesel generator will use 0.4 L of diesel per kWh produced as a rough rule of thumb giving a gallon 5 hours of power. That is almost 5 gallons a day to create the desired average power. So, 30 days at 5 gallons is 150 gallons of fuel at $4 plus costing more than getting the power from Eversource.

Using a generator in a continuous mode is not safe and would require multiple units to allow for cooling and maintenance. Then you have the ordinances to content with for the fuel, noise suppression, exhaust fumes ect...

I see that if the fuel source is free then it would be better if you can solve these other problems. Which means electrolysis of water fed into a propane/gasoline generator would work in the same manner.

kbd512 · 2023-04-20 04:58:03

SpaceNut,

I'm not talking about running a generator to make electricity. Direct space heating through burning a fuel is essentially a 100% efficient process. The only loss mechanisms are exhaust products removal (which carries away some heat with it), and insulation losses (not a reflection of the heat generation efficiency itself). A gallon of diesel or kerosene is $4 to $4.5, so $94.50 at most. That is for direct heating, not creating electricity first and then using the byproduct electricity to generate heat.

You said you used 800,000Wh of energy over 5,040 hours (1 month), so 158.73 Watts of heat per hour. A paraffin wax candle produces about 80W of thermal power and a little bit of light, so you're using 2 candles worth of continuous heat, which means CO2 build-up won't be much of a problem at that low of a burn rate (2/10ths of 1hp of heat energy). Even if you lose some heat to ventilation, it's still not very much compared to how much is lost by converting heat to mechanical power, then to electricity, and then back to heat.

It's your money and you can do what you want with it, but if it were me I'd just burn the fuel for direct heat instead of insisting upon making electricity with it first. That seems like a much better solution. A 100 gallon delivery of fuel oil should get you through most of the winter, and 200 gallons should be enough for all of the winter. There's a reason people use heating oil up there in the Northeast. That truly is the most efficient way to do it. Prior to heating oil they burned whale oil or wood. Burning kerosene or heating oil is a way to still have whales and forests while not freezing to death in the winter.

That's why I keep saying we need to synthesize our own fuels using solar thermal or nuclear thermal power. The alternatives are much worse.

SpaceNut · 2023-04-20 19:12:37

The heat was only to keep from freezing as the temperature achieved was mostly 50'F when most of the time it was near 30's outside. This was to heat for the occupied 800 sq ft of space that was above the split cellar that is cinder block wall where the temperatures were about 38'F and colder when the temperatures were colder outside for another 800 sq ft that makes up the home.

When the hot air furnace did work that was in the basement floor, we would go through 3 to 4 (250 gallons) tanks over the course of 5 to 6 months of winter. This was to keep that same up stair floor at 65'F. It's funny that more energy is required to maintain a higher temperature also requires even more due to pressure expansion of that warmer air that pushes its way out through the cracks.

So, I was being as much of a miser as I could be since that furnace does not function any longer to begin with; to still keep them as safe as one could be in the cold. They did have multiple blankets to help keep warm. Its sure better than a homeless person would have gone through.

SpaceNut · 2023-04-22 08:46:42

The real issue for energy use is to determine the amounts and how they are being used by dropping the known values into categories used.
1. continuous trickles for standby condition to lighting that is always on due to home construction.
2. those things that are on such as a computer, TV where the hours can be totaled.
3. appliance use which are the heavy draw but is off when not in use hours
4. heating or air conditioning or fans used in summer

All of these give the grand total of what we pay each month for kwhrs used.
Of course, after getting some of these numbers on can create a plan of offset for each slowly but surely.
No need to go all the way when income limited or resticted.

tahanson43206 · 2023-04-22 09:18:59

For SpaceNut re #96 ...

You've mentioned the oil furnace that no longer works a couple of times ...

May I inquire if the air movement subsystem still works? If you turn the unit on in Fan mode, does it still circulate air in the house?

If the Fan subsystem still works, you might be able to install an inexpensive electric heater to deal with situations where you need to keep temperature in the house above 49 degrees. I deduce from your previous reports that 50 degrees is tolerable for folks who live in New Hampshire (the Granite State).

No need to spend a lot on a minimal emergency air heating system. Even a small 1000 watt heater at the center of the furnace air flow should be able to keep the home at 50 degrees.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2023-04-22 13:15:43

Would need to remove old furnace to create a new plenum for the heat to connect to the unit as the blower was part of the furnace system. I was looking at the low voltage fans that go in the metal tubes that couple from the plenum to the individual rooms. These are something that can be found in the local Lowes and Home Depot. Bending sheet steel for this is not an issue and that is also available.

Now if I have the heat from the solar concentrating system and run that through a finned coil of tubing and blow the air through it we can limit the electrical needed.

Even with all of that the target is to make the basement walls are not a conductor to the cold outside temperatures. As well as continue to seal up all of the remaining floors and ceiling such that heat loss is lowered.

tahanson43206 · 2023-04-22 14:24:28

For SpaceNut re #99

You have my permission to remove the old furnace. It's been holding a place in the basement long enough.

It's past time to get moving on this home improvement project.

As you work to remove the old furnace, keep the possibility in mind it might be convertible to an electric furnace, after the oil burner components are removed.

It appears to me that a solar energy collection system is far in the remote future, and the electric grid is available right now.

You will want to keep the air filter intake from the old furnace. It is needed regardless of the heat source.

(th)

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#76 2021-12-12 14:07:28

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#77 2021-12-12 16:10:25

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#78 2021-12-13 16:16:54

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#79 2021-12-13 20:26:51

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#80 2022-05-14 17:36:27

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#81 2022-05-14 22:16:08

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#82 2022-05-16 19:04:18

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#83 2022-05-16 19:38:02

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#84 2022-07-11 17:24:38

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#85 2023-01-14 18:49:29

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#86 2023-01-18 20:54:43

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#87 2023-04-01 12:28:59

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#88 2023-04-15 20:21:30

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#89 2023-04-16 11:38:28

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#90 2023-04-16 14:33:19

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#91 2023-04-16 16:36:14

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#92 2023-04-18 23:31:09

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#93 2023-04-19 13:57:32

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#94 2023-04-19 21:02:27

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#95 2023-04-20 04:58:03

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#96 2023-04-20 19:12:37

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#97 2023-04-22 08:46:42

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#98 2023-04-22 09:18:59

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#99 2023-04-22 13:15:43

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

#100 2023-04-22 14:24:28

Re: Home Solar System to Achieve Energy Usage Offset

Board footer