Habitat Design on Mars

kbd512 · 2019-04-02 21:03:42

SpaceNut,

That could also work.

We still need at least 2m and possibly as much as 2.5m of Sulfacrete just to stop the radiation. One thing's for sure, though. Once it's built, it's not going anywhere. I totally forgot about the foundation. That also needs to be Sulfacrete, possibly with some chopped CNT fiber mixed into the powder for structural support. Central support pillars or dividing walls could be used for larger domes or to build multiple air tight compartments within a single structure. Maybe we should think about constructing the habitat like a ship with multiple air tight, rather than water tight, compartments. There may also be a way to use the steel (Invar or Kovar is probably what we'd actually use since steel would expand too much over the temperature gradients involved) mold to apply the outward pressure evenly during the reverse vacuum bagging / baking process and to use the balloon inside the steel mold and electrically heat the mold to apply the heat.

SpaceNut · 2020-01-12 20:22:24

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/file … 6-ADD2.pdf
Mars Design Reference Architecture 5.0 – Addendum #2

pg 467 has the inflateable which is being tested at the McMurdo Station.
The 453 kilogram (996 pound) system was packed into two 1.21 meter x 2.43 meter x 0.76 meter packages (4.53
cubic meters), and provides a living space of 70.8 cubic meters, yielding a 15:1 packaging efficiency.

SpaceNut · 2020-07-26 09:23:56

Beam has been tried in the International Space Station (ISS / Alpha) with possibly the section of the Deep Space Gateway; a bad joke by NASA?

So inflatables on the surface for mars are not without a desire and ability for mass to mars.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi … 003004.pdf
Space Radiation Effects on Inflatable Habitat Materials …

Void · 2020-07-26 09:54:22

I will try to not edge towards weirdness.

I myself think that a passenger Starship should leave it's passenger cabin behind on Mars. But I would think that they would welcome a connected inflatable for the extra space.

So, I would think that for 100 people at least 3 Starships.
-Passenger Cabin Starship.
-Starship for the inflatable.
-Auxiliary equipment and furnishings Starship.

I would think that the inflatable along with the atmosphere of Mars would be a quick way of dealing with some of the radiation problems.

Putting more shielding on these might be considerable work with toxic regolith. I wonder if an early ability to synthesize paraffin wax would be a good thing. It is solid at room temperatures, but easily melted and formed. I suppose you would need a lot of it. But I suppose regolith must be a learning lesson, how to handle it and keep humans safe. Robots I suppose for some of it.

But as a starter habitation technology, I would think an inflatable would be very good. If they kept the Starship there that carried it, also, you could connect the two, and rework the propellant tanks. The Starship altered that way, would give ~2400 cubic meters of space I understand. So a connected assembly of a crew cabin, an inflatable, and a convertible Starship left behind for every 100 people landed? Maybe that's enough. The Starship itself, not that radiation protected, perhaps some artificial lighting gardens?

Hopefully others will have better notions, because better is after all desirable.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2020-07-26 10:02:16)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-06 13:44:51

3D printing in concrete

tahanson43206 wrote:

The article at the link below shows a 3D Printed house in Belgium. The roof and windows were supplied as add-ons, as well as a steel stairway to reach the second floor.
I would assume the second floor was supplied as an add-on as well.
https://www.businessinsider.com/kamp-c- … ium-2020-8
(th)

Or using a material with simular consistency.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/busi … /undefined

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-13 07:04:32

This post is about the need for a habitat designer to be thinking about pressure leaks on Mars in in design of space vehicles intended to travel to or from Mars.

In the ISS topic, discussion recently focused upon a persistent leak that has been traced to a Russian module. The leak was difficult to find, and it has so far proven difficult to seal.

In looking at the 3D printed structure shown in the image in Post #30, I am reminded that design for pressure leaks is ** not ** top-of-mind for architects on Earth, unless they are designing for an underwater habitat, such as a submarine.

On Earth, designers building structures intended for space travel are required to think about leaks, and in the extreme case of vehicles intended to deliver cargo to space, pressure tests are a routine part of the development process, as well as the sequence of steps needed to prepare a vehicle for launch.

On Mars, any structure designed for habitation will be subject to pressure, so (I would think) it would make sense to think about ease of finding leaks and ease of stopping them in the design phase.

On the ISS recently, the location of the leak was found by isolating sections of the station until the one that was not holding air was found.

For design of habitats for Mars, and vehicles for space travel, the need for such isolation seems apparent, so the time to plan for that capability is early in the design process.

Edit#1: Lots of humans have thought long and hard about design for optimum performance in one aspect or another.

Here is a short (one page) summary of principles of design for art ....

https://www.getty.edu/education/teacher … design.pdf

I bring this up because, in addition to the need to design for practical considerations such as finding and stopping air leaks, designers for Mars (or space travel for that matter) have the opportunity to think about the aesthetic qualities of their concepts as realized in the real Universe.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-13 17:42:16

I suspect that the walls would be multi layer to allow for a barrier sealing material to be in between the walls to act as prevention to a leaking atmosphere.
Windows would be large to small frame surface width sealing type with the materials sandwiched between the frames from the inner to outer wall..
We need material to block the radiation from penetrating so a multi layer build concept solves both problems.

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-13 18:42:36

For SpaceNut re #32 ...

Because so much time goes by from the start of a topic to the latest update, it is easy (especially for a first time reader) to not realize so much thought has gone into the topic. Your post inspired me to reread from the top, and I appreciated the reminder of GW Johnson's vision of mushroom shaped structures with icecrete as a component, as well as the formal studies to which links are provided.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-12-17 20:20:42

Could the first lunar habitat be 3D-printed with moon dust? BB1c1Byr.img?h=450&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Texas-based startup ICON says it has a sci-fi solution -- 3D printing a lunar base from moon dust.
ICON is working with NASA to develop technology that can turn moon dust into a concrete-like material, says co-founder and CEO Jason Ballard. Moon dust, also known as lunar regolith, is the sand-like topsoil that covers the moon's surface, formed from minerals and tiny shards of glass created over millions of years as meteoroids hit the moon. It's sharp, abrasive, and extremely clingy -- the Apollo astronauts found it stuck to everything, including their space suits. There's plenty of it, which means there's a huge supply of raw materials if ICON is successful.

BB1c1ByA.img?h=450&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

ICON's 3D-printer, Vulcan, draws the outline of the building one layer at a time. It can print up to 500 square feet in 24 hours.

Calliban · 2020-12-19 17:25:37

An interesting discovery: compressing Martian soil simulant can produce a material stronger than concrete. No need to water or additional heating. Just ram the material into a steel mould.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/scie … ricks.html

To produce the first Martian habitat, we would start with a small crater or excavated hole about 6m deep. We would then assemble rammed soil columns inside, each about 3m high and maybe 3m apart and cover the entire area with rammed soil lintels. Next, cover with about a metre of compacted regolith and another 2m of mixed rock and regolith. When complete, paint the inside with polymer paint to seal any small leaks and pressurise to 5psi 50/50 oxygen nitrogen mix.

SpaceNut · 2020-12-19 17:32:18

The brick material is of high sulfur content and would become brittle with the moisture and weather cycles over time....its not really a new news story but it does start a process to make short term protecting buildings...
talked about here http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7496 plus there are other topics as well...
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7326
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8116
this one is no bake bricks http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7696

The mars society desert research daily power requirements

The campus is powered by a 15 kW solar system that feeds a 12 kW battery bank that provides power to everything. A 12 kW generator autostarts when the campus uses more power than the solar can provide in the winter months.

Calliban · 2020-12-20 16:46:31

A useful reference concerning compressed earth block technology.
https://www.rivendellvillage.org/Compre … uction.pdf

To produce good quality blocks on Mars, the materials need to be sieved to ensure small grain size. Inclusion of large rocks would result in voids within the matrix and cracking. So coarse material should be filtered out and added to the overburden to the structure. The compression pressure should be about 1000psi (70bar). I find it interesting that CEB units can be produced in many interlocking shapes. Given that drying is not required, large structural members can be produced that will remain stable and free from cracking, provided that all units are kept and compression.

Large underground CEB structures could be assembled rapidly from just a few repeatable units. I find especially interesting the idea of casting single piece cupola structures (see page 68 in the linked pdf), which can be lifted by crane onto pillar supports in the excavated hole. By aligning these structures so that their edges align, each unit is effective buttressed against the neighbouring unit, providing stability. Large habitats with many acres of total area can be produced by keying together hundreds of repeatable CEB cupola structures, which are then covered in overburden.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-12-20 17:00:06)

kbd512 · 2020-12-20 17:41:01

SpaceNut,

I still don't understand the obsession with building towering structures on other planets. It'll be far easier to bury habitat modules under loose regolith than it will be to erect giant vertical structures. In my opinion, we're better off figuring out how to construct giant landing pads or runways for spacecraft than above ground habitat modules, especially since we have to figure out how to land cranes big enough to erect those structures first. I would think that durable landing surfaces should be the first priority, if we're dead-set on erecting such structures.

SpaceNut · 2020-12-20 17:57:37

I would not call post 30 & 34 images as provided by the 3D habitat designs from the companies towering by any means in just two stories high. Since we will not be bringing a heavy boring machine to mars anytime soon we are left to wanting a backhoe or some other means to dig into the hard mars regolith soil to make a trench...which still needs a ceiling means which the above can do to cap the hole that gets dug.
If the only ship that ever goes is a starship we have a problem with getting humans to mars to make a hard packed landing pad.

Calliban · 2020-12-21 06:11:03

The problem with rammed earth (and concrete without reinforcement) is that they are brittle, vulnerable to cracking and lack tensile strength. To build multistorey structures without tensile members requires the use of butressing. This is relatively simple for underground structures, because the soil can resist lateral pressure. But above ground, there would need to be either thick berms against the walls or lateral buttress walls.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttress
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_buttress

Single storey underground structures are simpler to build and we won't be short of land on early Mars.

On Earth, dams are often buttressed against the static pressure behind them. Perhaps the same technology could ultimately be used to build pressurised structures on the surface of Mars.

The advantage of purely compressive materials is that they tend to be very energy cheap and readily available. Concrete has embodied energy of 1MJ/ kg. Earth walls, adobe, compressed and rammed earth, are even cheaper.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-12-21 06:38:37)

tahanson43206 · 2020-12-21 09:21:13

For Calliban re #40

Your word pictures in this post bring images from Roman times (and Arabian domed structures made from sun baked brick) to mind.

The need for the ability to withstand internal pressure is an element the Romans and Arabian builders did not have to consider.

Can I tempt you to add images to your concept here? I have no idea (of course) what resources may be available to you, or even if drawing is of interest, but at least I can offer encouragement.

Alternatively ... this forum has moved from an open-registration-anyone-welcome to a controlled environment in which new members are vetted.

At present, and for the foreseeable future, we have NO way for a person who might wish to become a member to apply for membership.

The ONLY way that a person can become a member of this forum is via nomination by existing members. SpaceNut has agreed to serve as the point of contact for admission of candidates.

If you are acquainted with a person who might be interested in helping you to develop your ideas for implementation on Mars, please consider nominating that person for membership.

In this case, a candidate might be someone who wants to illustrate your ideas, has the computer software on hand to create renderings, and can upload to imgur.com and paste the links here.

(th)

Calliban · 2020-12-21 19:03:36

Tahanson, I will attempt to put an image on imgur over the next few days.

I have completed a design for a Martian greenhouse. With the exception of the south facing window, which will be a concave compressed soil brick wall containing concave glass panes; the entire structure is made from compressed soil bricks and compacted soil berms. It was an interesting thought experiment. Unless I am much mistaken, it is indeed entirely possible to construct greenhouses on Mars made almost entirely of unprocessed and lightly processed surface materials.

The North facing part of the greenhouse is a thick berm of compressed soil and rock. This functions in much the same way as a gravity dam, except that the imposing force is air pressure instead of water pressure. The South facing window is concave and transfers its load into berms that curve around to the south. The entire berm structure has a horse shoe shape, with the window sitting inside the concave part of the horse shoe, which faces south. The internal force acting on the concave window is transfered to the South facing prongs of the horse shoe.

To build such a greenhouse, we would need a machine that can sieve out fine Martian soil and compress it into compressed soil blocks. We would fit concave, dome shaped panes of glass into the south facing wall, which is composed of hollow hexagonal blocks. We would build the back and side walls out of compressed soil blocks or stacked dry stone. A bulldozer would be used to create the horse shoe shaped berm around the structure. Finally, a compressed soil roof would be lifted into place and covered with at least 3m of soil and loose rock. The bulldozer will be driven over everything to ensure that all berms are sufficiently compressed. Finally, the structure can be pressurised.

The greenhouse is easy enough to build. It should be possible to build an Earth based analogue to test the idea.

SpaceNut · 2020-12-21 19:10:02

Calliban wrote:

The greenhouse is easy enough to build. It should be possible to build an Earth based analogue to test the idea.

This sounds like the artic analog site would be a perfect fit once we have a mars simulant soils for the builders to use....

I think you get just 60 to 90 days to give it ago from landing to departing to prove out the concept.

SpaceNut · 2021-12-29 21:59:34

http://spacearchitect.org/pubs/NASA-CR-189985.pdf
MARS HABITAT NASA/USRA ADVANCED DESIGN PROGRAM

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-01 16:23:43

‘Like the Wild West’: Who owns the moon and what’s up there?
https://www.smh.com.au/national/wild-we … 5b7of.html
Study Buddy: China speeds up moon base plan with Chang’e 8 mission in space race against the US
https://www.scmp.com/yp/learn/learning- … -moon-base
US-China Space Race Heats Up with Beijing Criticism of NASA Boss
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … moon-plans
State media hits back at NASA boss Bill Nelson’s criticism
Both countries are targeting same part of moon for exploration

going back to the subject of analog sites

Designs on the South Pole

The Coolest Architecture on Earth Is in Antarctica
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/scie … cture.html
Who said a polar research base had to be ugly? Gradually, designers are rethinking how to build for the world’s harshest environment.

Halley Research Station is a research facility in Antarctica on the Brunt Ice Shelf operated by the British Antarctic Survey (BAS). The base was established in 1956 to study the Earth's atmosphere. Measurements from Halley led to the discovery of the ozone hole in 1985
http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/about_bas/o … we_are.php

Dome Fuji, also called Dome Valkyrie, is a key site for the Antarctica Unexplored Dome Fuji Expedition 2018-2019. The location of return to the coast, the highest point to be reached in this campaign and the second highest of the Antarctic plateau, with 381o m of altitude. It is also one of the 10 coldest places on Earth. Business Insider pointed out last November that temperatures fall in winter below 80 °C, but have reached 93.2 °C below zero and the average annual air temperature is -54.3 °C. In addition, precipitation is only 25 millimeters per year and always in ice crystal form.
https://greenland.net/windsled/domefuji … ry-in-ice/
Located in the eastern part of Queen Maud Land, Dome Fuji is a zone of ice that characterizes it as a special place, with more than 720,000 years of history recorded in its ice. Japan was encouraged to install a scientific base, Dome Fuji Base, despite the complexity of its supply and maintenance.

Casey station was established in February, 1959, when Australia took overall responsibility for the US Wilkes station, built in 1957 for the IGY and named for Lieutenant Charles Wilkes, leader of the US Exploring Expedition. Ten years later when its main building was covered over by snow, Australia replaced Wilkes with Casey station, 2 mi (3k) to the south and across the bay on Bailey Peninsula. In 1988 a replacement Casey Station was opened, following the decommissioning of the old Casey Station.
https://www.antarcticconnection.com/ant … asey.shtml

A View Into Korea's Antarctic Program
https://antarctic-logistics.com/2013/07 … c-program/
ALE Partner Mike Sharp had the opportunity to tour the new Korean Polar Research Institute, along with other delegates attending the 25th Council of Managers of National Antarctic Programs (COMNAP) meeting in Seoul.

Garage entrance to Halley III research station built in 1973 inside Armco steel tubing designed to take the snow loadings building up over it.
https://www.photo.antarctica.ac.uk/exte … 220/257/20
In 10 years the base was buried 12-15 metres below the surface and access and ventilation problems led to its abandonment.

The first SANAE base was occupied in December 1959, when Norway handed it over to South Africa, after deciding its work was finished there. Since then there has also been SANAE II and SANAE III bases. The later which was closed for wintering in December, 1994 had over the years been buried by 45' (14m) of drifting snow. The new SANAE IV base is built at Vesleskarvet, 220 km due South of SANAE III.
https://www.antarcticconnection.com/ant … anae.shtml

How Antarctic bases went from wooden huts to sci-fi chic
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38574003

Some other discussion on newmars forum
Domed habitats
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=253
Robot Farming
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9020
Living inside Mountains / Caves on Mars?
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8033
Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9757

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-01 16:24:39)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-12 11:59:40

Why Go Back To The Moon?
https://www.ibtimes.com/why-go-back-moon-3611416

Kilopower: NASA’s Offworld Nuclear Reactor
https://hackaday.com/2019/08/28/kilopow … r-reactor/

What’s next for NASA’s Artemis 1 launch
https://www.popsci.com/science/artemis- … ext-steps/

NASA's ambitious moon rocket may be able to launch by the end of September.

China plans 3 moon missions to investigate a potential new source of energy
https://interestingengineering.com/inno … rgy-source

Rice successfully grown aboard Chinese space station for first time
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/88335/ri … index.html

NASA’s Challenge to 3D Print Future Habitats on Mars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWJ-sE08ASg

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#26 2019-04-02 21:03:42

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#27 2020-01-12 20:22:24

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#28 2020-07-26 09:23:56

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#29 2020-07-26 09:54:22

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#30 2020-09-06 13:44:51

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#31 2020-10-13 07:04:32

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#32 2020-10-13 17:42:16

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#33 2020-10-13 18:42:36

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#34 2020-12-17 20:20:42

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#35 2020-12-19 17:25:37

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#36 2020-12-19 17:32:18

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#37 2020-12-20 16:46:31

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#38 2020-12-20 17:41:01

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#39 2020-12-20 17:57:37

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#40 2020-12-21 06:11:03

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#41 2020-12-21 09:21:13

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#42 2020-12-21 19:03:36

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#43 2020-12-21 19:10:02

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#44 2021-12-29 21:59:34

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#45 2022-09-01 16:23:43

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

#46 2022-09-12 11:59:40

Re: Habitat Design on Mars

Board footer