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SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

SpaceX's next astronaut mission for NASA has been pushed back, with a launch 'no earlier' than late October

The mission, called Crew-1, will ferry four astronauts to the space station and back: Victor Glover, Shannon Walker, Mike Hopkins, and Soichi Noguchi.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

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Re: COTS - status

What little I could find indicated the date was pushed back to better match up with the scheduled crew size on ISS. 

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

Boeing plans second Starliner test flight in December or January

Hopefully the computer clock code has been fixed....

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

Boeing's Starliner makes progress ahead of flight test with astronauts

Teams from Boeing are well into final assembly of the crew and service modules that will fly OFT-2 to the space station inside of the company's Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility (C3PF) at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. OFT-2 will fly a new, reusable Starliner crew module providing additional on-orbit experience for the operational teams prior to flying missions with astronauts. For Boeing's Commercial Crew missions, the Starliner spacecraft will launch atop a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket.

With the majority of assembly complete, recent progress is focused on the NASA docking system re-entry cover, which was added to the design for additional protection of the system. The team also has completed the installation of the Starliner propellant heater, thermal protection system tiles and the air bags that will be used when the spacecraft touches down for landing. As final production activities continue to progress, the crew module recently entered acceptance testing, which will prove out the systems on the spacecraft before it's mated with its service module

come on, only 75% of 80 action items after first flight completed?

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

Pushing back again NASA delays commercial crew mission to study Falcon 9 engine issue to the first half of November to evaluate off-nominal behavior of Falcon 9 first stage engine gas generators. Described in the unmanned launch as an “unexpected pressure rise in the turbomachinery gas generator."
Since there is no difference in an unmanned rocket and the ones being used for manned flight they are playing it with extreme caution.

On the note of Boeings Starliner the Boeing astronaut Chris Ferguson withdraws from Starliner test flight
Simular fear since its not flown all that many times....

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

getting ready Astronauts arrive at launch site for 2nd SpaceX crew flight

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Astr … y_999.html

With Boeings starliner still to yet get to the same point

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

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Re: COTS - status

According to today's "Daily Launch" (AIAA's email newsletter):  (1) Spacex Falcon-9/crew-Dragon system has been officially "man-rated" by NASA,  (2) we are "go" for the Crew-1 commercial crew delivery mission to attempt launch this Saturday,  and (3) Boeing's "Starliner" unmanned demo test flight has now been pushed back into 2021 at the earliest,  for the same sort of software issues apparently still unresolved from the first attempt at this flight.

Hmmmm!  Who is demonstrably doing better at this spaceflight stuff,  "old space" or "new space"?

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

The space x capsule while its carrying men and woman to orbit I would still call it experimental as we have not had the flight count to know enough about its capability but its a step in the right direction.
Its to bad that old space is about getting cash and less about results for less.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

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Re: COTS - status

Weather pushes the Saturday launch to Sunday.  Best wishes. 

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,805

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Re: COTS - status

You'll notice I put "man-rated" in quotes.  There is a difference between what can be demanded in a project or program,  and what it takes to have real confidence. 

Real confidence requires a long history.  It's chicken-and-egg,  you cannot demand that history up-front before it is ever made,  you have to team up with them,  share the risk with them,  and allow them to actually make that history.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2020-11-14 15:30:33)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

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Re: COTS - status

Successful Crew-1 launch,  successful booster landing on drone ship.  Congrats to Spacex.  Well done!

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Posts: 29,433

Re: COTS - status

Good to hear https://www.spacex.com/launches/

Crew Dragon Resilience (Dragon C207)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_Dragon_Resilience

Roughly nine minutes after the launch, the first stage of the rocket returned for a landing on a drone ship in the Atlantic Ocean, a regular occurrence now on almost all SpaceX missions.

The second stage of the rocket continued to boost the capsule higher into orbit, where it will now take more than a day to reach the ISS, arriving tomorrow, Monday, November 16 at 11 P.M. Eastern Time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Crew-1

Crew-1 is the first of six scheduled operational missions for NASA designed to take four astronauts at a time on long-duration stays to the space station.

Once the four astronauts on Crew-1 arrive at the ISS they will remain on board for about 180 days, performing experiments and research before returning to Earth in June 2021.

Here is the busy Space x flight schedule
https://www.spacelaunchschedule.com/spa … -schedule/

Tentative schedule for manned flights onboard the crewed Dragon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Dragon_2

tahanson43206

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Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,443

Re: COTS - status

For GW Johnson and SpaceNut ... thanks for updates re Crew Launch.

The SpaceX schedule and Wikipedia page are interesting.. I was glad to see several Falcon Heavy flights are in the mix.

(th)

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

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Re: COTS - status

I see that they very nearly lost the booster from the Crew-1 commercial mission.  One landing leg seems to have slid off the side of the ship a little.  They managed to catch it and tie it down.  Brought it back to port sitting on the deck with a very noticeable lean.  The news article with those photos also mentioned "rough seas",  so the problem is NOT surprising at all.

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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Re: COTS - status

NASA, Boeing set launch date for Starliner do-over mission to the ISS sice The first uncrewed test flight didn't work out so well, so Boeing is gearing up to try again.

On Wednesday, NASA announced a new target date of March 29, 2021, to launch the second uncrewed test flight of Boeing's Starliner. The mission is called Orbital Flight Test-2, or OFT-2. If OFT-2 is successful, then NASA and Boeing will look to launch an actual crew to the ISS in the summer of 2021.

"The company is more than 90% complete in closing out all the recommended actions developed by a joint NASA and Boeing Independent Review Team, even those that were not mandatory, ahead of Starliner's second uncrewed flight test," said NASA in a statement on Wednesday.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

Seems Nasa needs to get there act together as even ESA is taking the first steps towards the in-flight demonstration of a prototype reusable rocket first stage called Themis from 2023.

ESA's Prometheus is a highly versatile engine capable of providing 1000 kN of variable thrust and is reignitable which makes it suitable for core, booster and upper stage application. An onboard computer handles engine management and monitoring in real time - a crucial feature for reusability.

Themis is 30 m high and 3.5 m in diameter. This single-stage vehicle demonstrator holds 130 tonnes of liquid oxygen/methane to fuel three aligned Prometheus engines.

Suborbital flight tests are scheduled as of 2023 at Europe's Spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana.

Two landing sites are under consideration: the 'Diamant zone', used for experimental demonstrations, or the Ariane 5 launch complex, which will become available after the transition from the Ariane 5 to the next-generation Ariane 6.

"Themis will advance key technologies and demonstrate reusability capabilities in Europe. This will create additional options for lowering the cost of access to space and increase Europe's flexibility to offer a variety of launch services," commented Daniel Neuenschwander, ESA Director of Space Transportation.

"Powered by the Prometheus engine demonstrator, running on liquid oxygen/methane or oxygen/hydrogen combinations, Themis will lead to the proving and development of very low-cost launcher solutions, while contributing to energy transition to a more eco-responsible space launcher sector," added Andre-Hubert Roussel, CEO at ArianeGroup.

SpaceNut

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Re: COTS - status

Its about time NASA, Boeing update Starliner orbital flight test date April 2, for launch of the agency's Boeing Orbital Flight Test-2 to the International Space Station.

SpaceNut

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Re: COTS - status

NASA and Boeing Evaluating Launch Date for Orbital Flight Test-2

Technicians observe Boeing's Starliner crew module being placed on top of the service module in the Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Jan. 14, 2021.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/

NASA also is weighing the volume of verification and validation analysis required prior to the test flight and the visiting vehicle schedule at the International Space Station.

An important factor the teams are evaluating is the visiting vehicle schedule at the International Space Station, which already has a scheduled crewed Soyuz launch and NASA's SpaceX Crew-2 mission in April. Based on the current traffic at the space station, NASA does not anticipate that OFT-2 can be accomplished later in April. NASA and Boeing are working to find the earliest possible launch date.

The higher the variety the more we can push costs for use down....

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

This is crewed # 2

After an all-day review, NASA and SpaceX tentatively cleared a refurbished Crew Dragon spacecraft and Falcon 9 rocket for launch next Thursday to ferry a three-man, one-woman crew to the International Space Station.

SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket heads to launchpad before April 22 blast off

The target launch time from Launch Complex 39A is 6:11am ET, with the rocket reaching the ISS April 23 at 5:30am ET.

The issue needs to be resolved by Saturday, though, when NASA conducts a 'static fire' test, in which the rocket engines are ignited while the vehicle remains on the ground.

SpaceNut

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Re: COTS - status

The to do list for starliner NASA and Boeing close out recommendations from Starliner review

Boeing's CST-100 Starliner spacecraft continues preparations for a second uncrewed test flight scheduled for launch July 30. remains on schedule for launch on an Atlas 5

That mission will carry out the tasks planned for the initial flight, including a space station docking, and spend 5 to 10 days in orbit before landing in the western United States.

Of course the prize is a crewed mission by the end of the year hopefully.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

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Re: COTS - status

Boeing's Starliner secured atop Atlas V rocket for second uncrewed launch

The commercial spacecraft will launch its second orbital flight test without a crew on July 30. During the mission, it will autonomously dock with the International Space Station to deliver approximately 440 pounds of cargo and crew supplies for NASA.

Mars_B4_Moon

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Re: COTS - status

We've had many other discussion on this topic such as Commercial Viability of Space and others

SpaceX Inspiration4 mission will send 4 people with minimal training into orbit — and bring space tourism closer to reality
https://www.space.com/spacex-inspiratio … to-reality

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

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Re: COTS - status

We have one funded crew-capsule contractor successfully doing contract missions for NASA,  the other still stuck in the limbo of showing they got all the bugs worked out.  The unfunded crew taxi contractor has yet to fly,  either,  although I would like to see them fly. 

We have several uncrewed cargo transport contractors flying,  but only one can transport stuff back from orbit.  The same one currently flying crews up,  with a version of the same capsule and launch rocket. 

And now that same successful contractor is about to fly its crew transport capsule manned for a non-governmental mission,  for the first time.  Probably the first of many times. 

Anybody else see a pattern here?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2021-09-15 14:37:23)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Oldfart1939

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Registered: 2016-11-26

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Re: COTS - status

And it appears that the non Governmental mission is nicely underway.
Since two of the crew are rated as certificated pilots, and they will be doing experiments, all should be rated as Astronauts instead of space tourist-passengers.

tahanson43206

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Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,443

Re: COTS - status

A few posts back, it was suggested the four people currently flying on the SpaceX non-governmental orbital mission received "minimal" training. They received four months of intensive training, including how to hog tie a crew member who goes berserk.

My impression is this training was far more than "minimal".

(th)