My Hacienda On Mars

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-26 06:10:47

For all My Hacienda topic viewers ....

While researching varieties of birds raised on Earth as livestock, I ran into a web site that offers a free eBook ...

"How to Start A Homestead No Matter Where You Live"

For SpaceNut ... added several plots for various agricultural items

Revised existing animal references to include the word "livestock" to help with searches.

As we add plot definitions, it is helpful to plan ahead for searches. It will become increasingly difficult to add new specializations without creating duplication.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-27 08:53:47

https://www.marssociety.org/news/2020/0 … announced/

Stumbled onto this and some of the rule content might aid build up here.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-27 10:04:37

For SpaceNut re #227

Thank you for that helpful link to Mars Society activities ...

There are multiple announcements on the web page ... I chose this one for focus because the event is close at hand:

MDRS Director Shannon Rupert to Discuss Simulating Life on Mars at 2020 Virtual Convention
Dr. Shannon Rupert, long-time Director of the Mars Society’s Mars Desert Research Station (MDRS) in Utah, will give a virtual address entitled “Once a Martian, Always a Martian: Demographics and Stories of the People who have Crewed MDRS” during the 23rd Annual International Mars Society Convention, scheduled for October 15-18. She will be sharing an analysis of the demographics of the researchers who have served as crew at the station over the last twenty years and providing some stories about… READ MORE >

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-27 16:46:32

For Void and SpaceNut ...

0161 Pollination Services (Natural and otherwise) [Bees and other pollinators plus robot pollinators and other automated techniques] Vendor 1 of 3
0162 Pollination Services (Natural and otherwise) [Bees and other pollinators plus robot pollinators and other automated techniques] Vendor 2 of 3
0163 Pollination Services (Natural and otherwise) [Bees and other pollinators plus robot pollinators and other automated techniques] Vendor 4 of 3

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-27 22:00:00

Yes and oldfart1939 as well as RobertDyck both have contributed with much experience in there posts.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-28 06:13:52

For SpaceNut re PlotMaster update:

0164 Arborist services - tree care Vendor 1 of 3
0165 Arborist services - tree care Vendor 2 of 3
0166 Arborist services - tree care Vendor 3 of 3

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-28 17:54:24

With husbandry we get materials for cloths and while we can make some artificially as well. That said we will need many factories to make what we wear as well as to produce those materials to make them with. Even from what we get to grow too.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-28 18:38:42

For SpaceNut re #232

Thanks for your continued interest in and support of the My Hacienda initiative ...

The community under discussion would have a minimum of 7800 households when it is filled out. I like your idea of planning for manufacture of clothing, and invite your ideas for the kinds of manufacturing facilities that might be desired.

The intent of the My Hacienda initiative is to try to define a community able to sustain a first (Earth) world standard of living, with a population of well under that of even a modest city on Earth. In order to avoid importing from Earth, it would be necessary for manufacturing enterprise to make much greater use of robotics than is standard practice on Earth, where people are available in such numbers they can be enlisted to carry out the myriad functions needed to provide the wealth of goods and services available in 2020.

Thus, a factory able to make a wool garment from a sheep farm would (presumably) perform whatever operations are needed with human supervision at a high level, but otherwise entirely with automation.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-28 19:18:32

On another topic we talked about weaving basalt bags and other manufacturing of glass thread as well for fiberglass for insulating. Even rock wool for hydroponic gardening and more.

Of course clothing needs seamstress and cutting machines plus thread to take a pattern that is cut to size. Of course we will need dye manufacturing to have something other than natural colored clothing.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-28 20:44:20

For SpaceNut re #234

Thanks for more suggestions for the PlotMaster ... I'll tackle them tomorrow.

It's taking longer and longer to add new items, due to the need to search for duplicates, and the variety of terms used for the same concept.

**** One correction I'd like to offer .... You may have missed the point I was trying to make earler ... there will be ** no ** seamstresses in the community as I see it unfolding ... No human could be spared for such menial labor .... Instead, fully functional robots would be assigned such duties. The import I see coming from Earth is software to permit use of general purpose robots for whatever tasks are needed.

The economy of a Solar System sized human presence would NOT involve trade of physical objects. Edward Lerner wrote a set of novels in which he explored the nature of an information technology between solar systems, involving light travel times of decades. A Solar System equivalent is quite likely to develop in a few hundred years, because wherever people travel, they will take general purpose robots with them, and they'll be able to run software that is hot off the press (or whatever the digital equivalent is) to meet whatever local needs there may be.

Completed 2020/09/29

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-29 07:12:01

For SpaceNut ... new items added ...

0167 Basalt enterprise 1 of 3
0168 Basalt enterprise 2 of 3
0169 Basalt enterprise 3 of 3
0170 Thread enterprise 1 of 3 Basalt/glass/carbon-based/iron/other Can include manufacture of fabric Weaving Loom
0171 Thread enterprise 2 of 3 Basalt/glass/carbon-based/iron/other Can include manufacture of fabric Weaving Loom
0172 Thread enterprise 3 of 3 Basalt/glass/carbon-based/iron/other Can include manufacture of fabric Weaving Loom
0173 Clothing: Design services 1 of 3
0174 Clothing: Design services 2 of 3
0175 Clothing: Design services 3 of 3
0176 Clothing manufacturer (not life support) 1 of 3
0177 Clothing manufacturer (not life support) 1 of 3
0178 Clothing manufacturer (not life support) 1 of 3
0179 Clothing Distributor 1 of 3
0180 Clothing Distributor 2 of 3
0181 Clothing Distributor 3 of 3
0182 Dye (for clothing) manufacturer 1 of 3
0183 Dye (for clothing) manufacturer 2 of 3
0184 Dye (for clothing) manufacturer 3 of 3
0185 Media enterprise 1 of 3 Print format, digital format, broadcast locally, broadcast Solar System, audio/video/immersion/other
0186 Media enterprise 2 of 3 Print format, digital format, broadcast locally, broadcast Solar System, audio/video/immersion/other
0187 Media enterprise 3 of 3 Print format, digital format, broadcast locally, broadcast Solar System, audio/video/immersion/other

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-29 07:17:07

For SpaceNut ....

Mars is likely to become a hub of commerce for the outer Solar System ...

Because of the physics (and costs of energy and mass) I would expect the moons of Mars to become distribution centers for all manner of physical products needed by asteroid miners and others who are likely to attempt to make a living harvesting resources.

Electronic/digital products and services (of course) can originate anywhere in the Solar System, but for some situations, Mars might gain a bit of market share over Earth.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-29 19:48:24

The seamstress is the term used to cover the process of stitching cloth together and industrial version to make on a business plot will be heavily robotic automated but early on cloth repair does need the skills until the factory is made.

We need 1/4 of the plots filled for most of the business to start and less for before that fall Into the 5 life support items of air, water, food, power and shelter needed to provided for the crew/ population count at any period of time.

That indeed was quite the update and will read it all tomorrow plus think of more....

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-29 20:37:00

For SpaceNut re #238

Thanks for your additional notes on clothing manufacture ... my concern (in first reading the original post) was that we might be contemplating locking human beings into menial positions in the new culture. While I agree that in fact, a skilled seam sewer is to be greatly admired and appreciated by those of lesser capability, in actual fact on Earth, that degree of recognition is seldom given. My hope is that all such positions on Mars will be filled by the evolved versions of Atlas, which will be capable of the finest stitching and "willing" to perform required tasks 24 hours a day, except for periods needed for cool down and maintenance.

I'm looking forward to your ideas for more specializations to make up a viable First (Earth) World community with only a few thousand human residents.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-14 07:19:29

For SpaceNut ...

Per input from Calliban ... added ...

0322 element 45 rhodium mining - refining - processing - manufacture - remanufacture Vendor #1
0323 element 45 rhodium mining - refining - processing - manufacture - remanufacture Vendor #2
0324 element 45 rhodium mining - refining - processing - manufacture - remanufacture Vendor #3

rhodium would appear to be a valuable material for manufacture of basalt fibers on Mars.

In searching with Google, I found that it is widely used for manufacture of glass fiber on Earth.

Edit#1: Addition of rhodium as a separate specialization leads me to the realization that a way to organize My Hacienda is to identify activities for each element (where it makes economic sense).

For SpaceNut ... do you have an opinion on this, one way or another?

Edit#1: revised plot number to accommodate entire 94 naturally occurring elements

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-14 17:10:57

updating the traveling roaming exploration to scout for claim sites in the first decade to support the mineral findings of "gold, palladium, iridium, rubidium, platinum, rhodium, europium, etc."

Plans for mobile base - on the mars... Plot0008 Support of Mobile Exploration Train

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-15 08:51:26

For SpaceNut re #241

Thanks for noting the addition of rhodium to the Plotmaster, and for your reminder of the specialization for mobile exploration support.

As a clarification for new forum readers, here is the current definition for Plot 0008:

0008 SpaceNut Proposed economic activity: Support of Mobile Exploration Train (Edit(th): Supply, Training, Consulting, Guides)

Added note for SpaceNut ... If you have a moment to look at the Plotmaster, you'll see I've built on Calliban's suggestion of rhodium, to include the entire set of 94 naturally occurring elements. It will take a while to fill out the details but I put the framework into place today.

Edit#1: I ran a quick search for posts containing Plot 0008 by SpaceNut, and found four records. I'm hoping you might help me with this initiative, by editing one or more of the existing four records instead of adding new ones. There is a practical point at which a record will become too large to work with, so additional records will be needed as you build out the description of the plot.

This would then be an example for other forum members who (I am hoping) will be inspired to concentrate on one specialization and build out the description of what it will take to bring that particular focus into being.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-15 17:32:26

The search with "plot 0008" is being seen as 2 words by the program. Take the space out "Plot0008" which makes it a single word and it will change the results. Another thing to note is if you enter only the numbers it comes back sort of false as well.

I like it and need to would on the topic to add in functions that we need with in that topic. Maybe maps from our current orbiters and rovers if there are any for each element.

It would help to keep adding in the identifiers into topics that are single indicators or break out the posts and be clearer with the statements of topic discussion as to keep it focused on the building out of the plots....

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-16 06:20:22

For SpaceNut re My Hacienda ... addition of 94 elements ...

Please look at the description lines here ... I set them up for rhodium, but am doubtful they are right for hydrogen.

I'm not even sure remanufacture is right for rhodium, but at least if might make sense for a metal.

Before I add more updates, please suggest improvements.

0322 element 45 rhodium mining - refining - processing - manufacture - remanufacture Vendor #1
0323 element 45 rhodium mining - refining - processing - manufacture - remanufacture Vendor #2
0324 element 45 rhodium mining - refining - processing - manufacture - remanufacture Vendor #3

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-16 19:02:58

I think hydrogen or mixed hydrogen gasses in deep pockets under the crust as we find here on earth is indicated by the methane leaking to the surface and into the atmosphere. So while its no pure Hydrogen we can just leave it as a place holder that shows the direct interest in the element as its a hinge pin item for lots of activities and devices of which we might some day see fuel cells.

I fixed the topic which had the old plot marker for the current number in the registry for bamboo now plot0038.

Then I realized that we did not have a paper factory for when we develop all trees types from every thing starting with toilet paper to writing pads of paper.

We will also need furniture factories, maybe plates and bowls if not make with paper....

SpaceNut · 2020-10-16 20:01:20

I noticed that "0007 kdb512 Proposed: Nuclear power facility large enough to serve entire community" has not had much done with it so I and putting topics that are related into this post

SpaceNut wrote:

post 13
Of course power is divided into those that want solar with batteries and nuclear to which a mix is required and a use for the excess solar to be save for later use in fuels, compressed gas or anything that can be used later that has low lose rates.
Going Solar...the best solution for Mars.
Nuclear vs. Solar vs. Others
Methane backup not nuclear vs solar
Power to Ammonia for Energy Storage
Power to gas - the next step
Carbon Monoxide - a way to power Mars?

NASA and DOE to test kilopower nuclear reactor for space applications

Nuclear power is safe
Low-cost nuclear reactors
Magnox Nuclear Reactors for Mars
Light weight nuclear reactor, updating Mars Direct

We may have more with the nuclear materials

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-17 06:28:04

For SpaceNut re #246

Thanks for bringing Plot0007 back into view! At this point, we do not yet have anyone developing a plot as I am hoping will happen eventually.

The idea would be to "take possession" of a virtual plot here in the NewMars forum, and begin to build up a database record (a post that is edited) to contain all the information a person would need to create the specialized activities of the title.

In this case, the "owner" of the plot would assemble requirements for a nuclear power facility on Mars.

The key to this working is division of labor, and specialization by members of other plots to deliver required materials and services.

The trade is power provided by the nuclear facility.

As any plot is developed, the "owner" will concentrate on thinking through requirements to produce whatever good or service is to be put on offer, and to publish those requirements so that others can imagine themselves supplying the needed components or services.

In the ongoing Mars Conference 2020, I heard mention of the idea of designing a city, and that is exactly what Louis started with his vision of Sagan City, which is provisionally the focus of My Hacienda. The vision is that of Sagan City 2018, which Louis "created" out of thin air before going on to other interests.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-18 11:22:25

For SpaceNut re topic ...

Today's news feed included an item about how (some) citizens of Iran are developing local industry to meet economic needs, since sanctions have cut off imports.

The specific focus of the article was a company that takes in locally loomed fabric to make garments. These are quite popular and the company is doing well enough be to able to invest in more capability.

However, the company is stressed by lack of locally made items such as zippers (imported from Japan) and buttons.

This report gave me an insight into a way that the plot definitions for My Hacienda might be expanded ...

Imports are (presumably) recorded by Earth governments, and therefore there may be available a list of products that are needed for manufacture, and which would need to be made on Mars if the local economy were to intend to operate independently of Earth.

If you are inspired to do so, please look into possible lists of imports.

Since the United States has given up so much manufacture to other nations, there may be lists of items that come back into the country as components for assembly.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-10-19 07:19:44

For SpaceNut re topic ...

I asked Google for help in trying to understand the specializations that will be needed to insure a 2020 First World standard of living for the residents of Sagan City 2018. It did not come up with a specific answer ... after all, that is a very sophisticated question, which the AI is not yet equipped to handle.

However, it ** did ** come up with answers that are in the ball park. Specifically, the paper at the link below describes the activities of the population of Earth, and (in particular) is shows that only 10 percent (or less) of materials are recycled.

https://ec.europa.eu/environment/circul … conomy.pdf

The design of an economic system for Mars ** could ** include planning for 100% recycling. Humans are starting with a clean slate, so this is an ideal time to plan to discard the absolute minimum of material to the Mars planetary waste repository. An example of material well suited for long term removal would be certain categories of nuclear waste. Everything else (I would think) could be recycled.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-10-19 19:16:48

As many jobs as there are that mine or make something there are just as many that become warehouse space to hold the goods made and just as many delivery and service provider jobs as there are choices to be made for what can be bought.

Even if we got to 80% recycling we would be doing good when compared to earth....

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#226 2020-09-26 06:10:47

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#227 2020-09-27 08:53:47

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#228 2020-09-27 10:04:37

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#229 2020-09-27 16:46:32

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#230 2020-09-27 22:00:00

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#231 2020-09-28 06:13:52

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#232 2020-09-28 17:54:24

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#233 2020-09-28 18:38:42

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#234 2020-09-28 19:18:32

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#235 2020-09-28 20:44:20

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#236 2020-09-29 07:12:01

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#237 2020-09-29 07:17:07

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#238 2020-09-29 19:48:24

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#239 2020-09-29 20:37:00

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#240 2020-10-14 07:19:29

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#241 2020-10-14 17:10:57

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#242 2020-10-15 08:51:26

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#243 2020-10-15 17:32:26

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#244 2020-10-16 06:20:22

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#245 2020-10-16 19:02:58

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#246 2020-10-16 20:01:20

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#247 2020-10-17 06:28:04

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#248 2020-10-18 11:22:25

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#249 2020-10-19 07:19:44

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#250 2020-10-19 19:16:48

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

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