Lithium used for batteries

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 13:36:52

There are many types of battery chemistries depending on the materials used to make them. Currently the lithium ION batteries is the battery of choice for many applications.

A popular one that Musk Talks Batteries including those being used on the Starship plus his automobiles.
These are also used for the Louis' Solar Power Strategy as storage of the solar energy that we would want to use later.
Then there is the technology drive to change the chemistry to get more out of them in Lithium CO2 batteries or this one Sodium-Iron battery?
I am reminded of the Edison batteries as well as other types.

Pushing the capability to mass is what its about.

Its the lithium-ion batteries brings to the foreground the acute shortage of resources needed for their production. Transition metals commonly used in cathodes, such as cobalt, nickel and manganese, are fairly rare and expensive, and toxic too.

Skoltech scientists developed superfast charging high-capacity potassium batteries based on organic

high-voltage-flow-battery-room-temperature-liquid-metal-sodium-potassium-alloy-hg.jpg

"Currently, metal-ion batteries and supercapacitors are the most common energy storage solutions," comments the team leader, Pavel Troshin. "The former store a lot of energy per unit mass, but charge slowly and lose capacity rather quickly after a number of cycles, whereas the latter charge fast and withstand tens of thousands of cycles, but have poor storage capacity. We showed that electroactive organic materials can pave the way for a new generation of electrochemical energy storage devices combining the advantages of metal-ion batteries and supercapacitors, thus eliminating the need for costly transition metal compounds and lithium."
The downside is that the hexaazatriphenylene-based polymer cathode has a low operating potential (about 1.6 V volts with respect to K+/K potential), which results in decreased energy storage capacity. In their second paper, the scientists proposed another material, a dihydrophenazine-based polymer, which does not have this drawback and ensures an increase in the battery's average operating voltage up to 3.6 volts.
"Aromatic polymer amines can make excellent high-voltage organic cathodes for metal-ion batteries. In our study, we used poly-N-phenyl-5,10-dihydrophenazine in the potassium battery cathode for the first time. By thoroughly optimizing the electrolyte, we obtained specific energy of 593 Wh/kg, a record-high value for all the currently known K-ion battery cathodes," explains the first author of the study and Skoltech PhD student, Philipp Obrezkov.
The low-melting potassium and sodium alloy (NaK) is known to contain about 22% of sodium by weight and has a melting point of -12.7C.
In their third study, the scientists used a similar potassium-sodium alloy applied on carbon paper as an anode and the redox-active polymers obtained earlier as cathodes. It transpired that such batteries can be charged-discharged in less than 10 seconds.
Interestingly, one of the polymer cathodes exhibited the highest energy capacity for potassium batteries, while the other showed excellent stability, with only 11% of capacity lost after 10,000 charge/discharge cycles. Also, the batteries based on these two materials displayed unrivalled power characteristics of nearly 100,000 W/kg ? a level typical for supercapacitors.
"Currently, metal-ion batteries and supercapacitors are the most common energy storage solutions," comments the team leader, Pavel Troshin.

Research paper

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 13:50:33

First mode of the https://www.tesla.com/powerwall is as a line conditioner of ac for load dips and surges to equalize the ac voltage. It stores energy in internal batteries for later sagging events where convertor invertor power is put to the output from the batteries. So storing ac happens when the ac voltage is above 110 ac most likely give or take a volt but under that down to brown out conditions about 90 ac we are putting out power to pull up the sagging ac value as much as it can.

Mode 2 is when total ac input is lost as it works just like you computer Ups giving power until its dead from the stored battery power until they reach about 60 % of there full dc value.

The only difference for mars is the level of solar input from its convertors that make ac for the system to work.

Thats sort of part 1 and 2 mode of operation with mode 2 being a total dust level knock out of solar to be below the input level required.
The number of days is just numbers to feed into an equation for how long we can keep having power until its gone.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 13:53:52

With any good solar cell panels that we will use on Mars we will need an equally good quality battery to go with them. The Musk powerwall and new powerwall2 have some new nearly the same capability from some other vendors. see musk topic....

kbd512 wrote:

SpaceNut,
I would suggest that a battery with a broader operating / charging temperature range (something that can actually take a charge at lower temperatures, rather than just putting something on the sticker that says it operates at a given temperature without expressing what the real performance would be at the extreme ends of the operating temperature range), that is not prone to exploding or rupturing when shorted, is probably a better idea.
FIAMM SoNick battery for Energy Storage Systems - FIAMM ST523 620 V 22.5 kWh
The SONICK Battery by FIAMM
Yes, it's heavier than Lithium-ion. It weighs 564lbs. However, look at the cycle life at 80% DoD and notice how little volume it occupies. Each ORU is 430lbs and the thermal regulation ("heater") plate is ~85lbs.
FIAMM ST523
Weight: 564lbs
Dimensions: 24.6" W x 40.2" L x 16" H
Capacity: 22.5kWh
Containment: Completely sealed
Aerojet-Rocketdyne ISS ORU
Weight: 435lbs (ORU) 85lbs (adapter plate); 520lbs (total)
Dimensions: 37" W x 41" L x 21" H
Adapter Plate: 36" W x 41" L x 15" H
Capacity: 15kWh
Containment: Open to preclude a cell rupture from destroying the other cells in the pack
ISS Lithium-ion ORU Test Data:
International Space Station Lithium-Ion Battery Status
Lithium-ion can work without catastrophic events from single cells, but it won't look much like a Tesla Power Wall when you're done and will definitely weigh quite a bit more:
Design Guidelines for Safe, High Performing Li-ion Batteries with 18650 cells
Assessment of International Space Station (ISS) Lithium-ion Battery Thermal Runaway (TR)
International Space Station Lithium-Ion Battery
ISS Thermal Management Systems:
Active Thermal Control System (ATCS) Overview

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 13:55:54

https://www.tesla.com/support/powerwall … -an-outage
A useful tool if you know what will be on and how long it will be used to calculate when the powerpack will run out of juice.

Power attributes of the battery is power at fully charge -minus discharge power levels knowing that the current is not rising with the decaying voltage will be the whr that we can use. The time of the capacity is relative to the ampere hour rating of the battery.

As the 2400kwhr battery for a landed ship comparison since I am sure they will be based on the power wall 10kwhr and Tesla Model 3 battery pack sized at 80.5 kWh....

A level 1 charger is a slow charger that will take 8-15 hours to charge your car.
A level 2 charger is a 6 kWh charger that is also pretty slow if you're used to Supercharging—it will take 3-8 hours to charge your car.
With the danger of fast charge near the 3hr time we will be causing internal damage which will kill the battery from the internal heat of charging.
simple math of 8 hr x 6kwhr of charge means we will be at 48 kwhr capacity from the discharged voltage

Mars like earth has a solar charge output of 3 5 hours where the current coming out of the panels rise to the 70% voltage level under load for that time period and below that we are not charging as the voltage is to low under load currents.

That said in the morning until it reaches the 70% point to charge we will use 2 panels in series to boost the voltage to the charger input. At the 70 % and up we then change the panels interconnections to parallel and the back to series once it get below the 70% some period of time later to get the most of the panels collected power to batteries.

Earth panel input power 1,000w would get 300 w to 400 w panels but the same panel of mars only gets 430 watts input to produce power 129w - 172w for the panel

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:02:38

Musk's Powerwall

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

Its been a while even though we have talked about the potential uses of having such an item.
Seems that there is some competition Tesla Powerwall 2 Review

The Powerwall 2 costs $5,500 with more than double the storage at 14 kWh, compared to the original’s 6.4 kWh capacity. Seems that the #1 LG Chem RESU6.5 are quite cost competitive and reasonably within the same capability.

louis wrote:

This is obviously just a brief conceptual overview.
I agree the Powerwall or similar in the future could be part of the solution. It's pretty expensive but the smaller Powerwall 1 (just over 6 KwHs peak) I could imagine being part of an overall solution. Grid operators might offer them as part of a contract package. They would certainly help grid operators get over the evening peak, when there is, in winter, no solar.
In order to deliver 100% renewables solution, the grid operators need to address a number of issues: diurnal generation cycles, seasonal generation cycles, weather patterns and demand cycles/patterns. The artificial methane solution is really designed to address weather pattern fluctuations.
Fortunately over much of the world there's quite a good match between wind (more energy in winter) and solar (more energy in summer) but the wind pattern isn't the same everywhere:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=20112
The prices are somewhat conjectural based on expert predictions and recent contract prices.
One of the benefits of artificial methane is that we already in most of Europe and N America have a large methane infrastructure for storage and pipeline supply, so we don't have to invest from scratch.
The prices are meant to be levelised, so they cover all investment.
Europe's continental grid is already quite sophisticated, more so than N America I believe where California/SW USA are cut off from the rest of the USA. But maybe that's changed/changing?

SpaceNut wrote:
louis wrote:
So a likely scenario for a whole year might be:
Wind and solar - 80% at 2 cents per KwH for
Artificial methane - 7% at 20 cents per KwH
Other renewables - 9% at 8 cents per KwH
Continental grid - 4% at 6 cents per KwH
Average price would be 3.96 cents per KwH.
If I could get power from the low end of that cost page I would be happy but what did it cost the company to invest to be able to provide it for that cost?
Where is the Musk power wall in this, as its a better efficiency of energy in to energy out than all of the others being better than 90% where as the others as the artifical methane and other renewables.
Power creation is a different question as to is it saving us or costing in the end run as to whom can buy the very expensive items short of do it yourself projects which can impact the individuals cost for energy.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:05:03

Tesla's Powerwall by the Numbers

The Powerwall comes in two sizes: 7 kWh ($3000) and 10 kWh ($3500). Both use Tesla’s Li-ion battery technology - no surprise there. Since there’s only a small price difference between the two, I’ll focus on the 10 kWh model. The first thing to note is that the Powerwall does not include an inverter - it’s just the battery bank, charge controller, and a liquid thermal control system that allows the unit to withstand temperatures from -20C (-4F) to 43C (110F). Tesla says that the device is compatible with “a growing list of inverters” without specifying which brands or models. The Powerwall can deliver 2 kW of continuous power and 3.3 kW of peak power. An inverter capable of handling that costs around $1500, give or take a few hundred. That brings the price tag up to $5000, not including installation. (It must be installed by a qualified electrician.) Powerwalls can be combined to create up to 90 kWh of storage - enough to meet the needs of virtually any residential customer. The storage system has a round-trip DC-DC efficiency of 92%. Factor in the typical efficiency of a good inverter, around 95%, and we’re looking at a total round-trip efficiency of 87%. That 10 kWh battery, for all practical purposes, provides 8.7 kWh of AC electricity.
If a person spent $3500 on the Powerwall and another $1500 on the inverter, it would take ten years (simple payback) for the unit to pay for itself. Since it has a 10 year warranty (and so do most inverters), it’s a break even situation at best.
*In reality, completely draining the battery every day shortens its life. A battery under those conditions would lose about 30% of its initial capacity after 500 charge-discharge cycles - not even two years of daily use. (Good thing there’s a ten-year warranty!) At a friendlier 80% depth of discharge, a Li-ion battery will survive about 1900 cycles (about five years) before losing a significant amount of its capacity.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/powerwall-specs

Residential Battery Storage — Tesla Powerwall x 4 vs Aquion Energy x 2 vs Iron Edison x 1

Powerwall: 92% efficiency, capacity = average of 90% rated 7 kWh over product life (due to assumed degradation over time), 5,000 cycles before degrading to 80% of rated capacity (theoretical “end of product life”). Also, SolarCity prices come from statements from SolarCity, the wholesale price comes from Tesla Energy, and the retail price from a distributor includes an assumed 20% markup.
Aquion Energy S20P: 85% efficiency, capacity = average of 90% rated 2.366 kWh over product life (due to assumed degradation over time), 3,000 cycles before degrading to 80% of rated capacity (theoretical “end of product life”). Price from retailer linked above (and seems to be on sale).
Aquion Energy M100-L082P: 85% efficiency, capacity = average of 90% rated 28.4 kWh over product life (due to assumed degradation over time), 3,000 cycles before degrading to 80% of rated capacity (theoretical “end of product life”). Price from retailer linked above (and seems to be on sale). Admittedly, far larger than most homes would need — more appropriate for some businesses.
Iron Edison 24V Lithium Battery: 96% efficiency, capacity = average of 90% rated 4 kWh over product life (due to assumed degradation over time), 2,000 cycles before degrading to 80% of rated capacity (theoretical “end of product life”), 80% depth of discharge. Price from retailer linked above.

http://mragheb.com/NPRE%20498ES%20Energ … teries.pdf

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:06:31

Just thinking of how this https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/busi … .html?_r=2 might be of use on mars.

Multiple article

396 refrigerator-size stacks of Tesla batteries, encased in white metal, capable of powering roughly 15,000 homes over four hours, is part of an emergency response to projected energy shortages stemming from a huge leak at a natural gas storage facility.
So far in Australia, Tesla has delivered Powerpack installations of 190kWh at Dream Factory in Footscray, Melbourne, and 95kWh at a school in Rockhampton, Queensland.
The first installation of a 250 kilowatt, 500KW/h Powerpack will be at the City of Sydney's Alexandra Canal Works depot in the coming months. Transgrid awarded a contract to Tesla to supply Powerpacks to several sites last year, and plans to use the installation to trial the use of batteries in demand management.
A megawatt Powerpack installation, enough to run 750 homes for 4 hours, costs about $1.8 million.
2,000-kilowatt-hour battery enough to power about 375 homes for four hours.
The resort generates electricity via a 1-megawatt solar array powered by 20 Tesla Powerpacks.
Tesla installed 54,978 solar panels and 272 Powerpack batteries to power the island. The solar array has 13 megawatts of solar generation capacity.

This is an AC storage device but would still work for later.

https://www.tesla.com/powerpack

Overall System Specs
AC Voltage 380 to 480V, 3 phases
Energy Capacity 210 kWh (AC) per Powerpack
Scalable Inverter Power from 50kVA to 625kVA (at 480V)
Powerpack
Length: 1,308 mm (51.5")
Width: 822 mm (32.4")
Height: 2,185 mm (86")
Weight: 1622 kg (3575 lbs)
Industrial Inverter
Length: 1,014 mm (39.9")
Width: 1254 mm (49.4")
Height: 2192 mm (86.3")
Weight: 1200 kg (2650 lbs)

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:07:40

kbd512 wrote:

To give everyone an idea of how much of a weight difference there is between a Tesla PowerWall and an ORU, the PowerWall weighs 264lbs and has a 13.5kWh usable capacity. Each ORU weighs 430lbs, or 518lbs with the heater plate, and have a capacity of around 14.8kWh. None of these Tesla PowerWall or PowerPack batteries will ever be subjected to the kind of gravitational and vibrational loads that a space launch and reentry will produce, nor subjected to frigid Martian nights, so it's not a very good reference point.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:10:58

kbd512 wrote:

Louis,
* Tesla bakes in more capacity to their batteries than the nameplate capacity on the battery pack. This is well-documented and proven with the Tesla PowerWall and electric vehicles. That's why their batteries last longer. Li-Ion battery life is directly related to depth of discharge (DoD). At a higher DoD, battery life is much lower. At a lower DoD, batteries can last for many years. This is not a major problem on Earth because no vehicle has to take the batteries to another planet. At 30% to 50% DoD in a room temperature environment, a Li-Ion battery can last through daily charge/discharge cycle for 8 to 10 years. One might note that that corresponds quite nicely with Tesla's claimed battery life and actual results prove exactly what I just stated and what Tesla claimed.
* Operating KiloPower is in no way comparable to operating a multi-gigawatt commercial nuclear generating station on Earth, so stop with the hyperbole already. It's plug-and-play. KiloPower has one control rod that controls the reactor's thermal power output. That's the only control to operate. The entire device is twice the heigh of a suited astronaut and about the same width with the radiator panels folded.
1. astronaut digs a hole two to four feed deep and uses a manually operated crane or winch to put the reactor in the hole
2. astronaut packs in the regolith like potting a plant
3. astronaut unfurls the radiator panels
4. astronaut connects a power cable
5. astronaut walks away and sends a command to gradually remove the control rod
That's it. Over the course of an hour or two, the reactor heats up and thermal output builds and gradually stabilizes. This procedure can be done in a day by two astronauts. In real life, you'd repeat steps 1 through 4 several times before turning the reactors on.
Poston said that DoE and NASA built and completed ground testing of KiloPower from scratch for less than $20M. This was possible because the US government has a stockpile of thousands of tons of HEU that is F-R-E-E. DoE simply has it sitting in a bunker collecting dust and no other uses planned for it.
* Nobody needs to produce a citation showing that Opportunity is dead. NASA said the dust storm on Mars killed it and they're not making things up just to prove or disprove anybody's talking points on electrical energy production on Mars. That's an actual solar powered victim that died on Mars from lack of power that was directly related to the dust storms. That's more "proof" than any research paper ever written. Spirit died the same death. Opportunity isn't affected by how much dust is in the atmosphere. It'll keep going till the wheels fall off, which will happen prematurely because of lack of testing and understanding about how the terrain would degrade aluminum alloy wheels. Something else will invariably kill the Mars 2020 rover from lack of understanding since the problem with the wheels was fixed.
I don't trust any technology to provide all the power. I want solar, nuclear, fuel cells, and internal combustion engines. After all, we can land the mass, so why not? There is no "best" or "right" answer. There are only probabilities of failure, demonstrated or known failure modes, and the certainty of death and destruction that comes from a lack of electrical power. PV is known to die from cell degradation when exposed to radiation. Batteries die when they get too cold or melt / explode if internally short circuited. Fission reactors die when they get too hot and subsequently melt. Fuel cells explode when their membranes rupture. ICE's run out of fuel, explode, or suffer from mechanical failures in operation. Bringing and using a little bit of everything is a means of mixing complementary power provisioning technologies as part of a comprehensive survival strategy.

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:13:23

Li-Ion Rechargeable Batteries on Mars Exploration Rovers
https://trs.jpl.nasa.gov/bitstream/hand … 5-3884.pdf

louis wrote:

Regarding the self-discharge issue, it looks like losses on a six month voyage to Mars would be between 20-25%. Taking the upper figure, that would be a loss of 3750 KwHs on a load of 75 tonnes of lithium-ion batteries. That would amount to under 21 KwHs per day or just under 1 Kw constant. I think the BFR solar power system could cope with that and top up the batteries en route to Mars.
A. Emergency storage.
75 tonnes of lithium-ion batteries having 200Whs per Kg of storage, which equates to 15000 KwHs in total. . Topped up en route to Mars and thereafter used immediately if the mission begins in the middle of a worst case dust storm or is again topped up by the Mars-based PV system.
B. PV energy on Mars.
We haven't bottomed out yet how much power is required to run the propellant production facility but if it is something like 1MW, the Mars-based configuration might be:
10,000 sq. metres of PV (light weight encapsulated film) (ie 100 metres by 100 metres). This would produce about 35000 KwHs of electricity per sol, an average constant of 1.428 Mws. Most propellant production would take place during the strong insolation period of about 5 hours. The 400 Kws excess would be used to feed night storage chemical batteries, power life support, make good any power losses during dust storms and also create an additional stock of methane/oxygen for back up during dust storms. In a severe prolonged dust storm the system should still produce a minimum of 285 KWes - more than enough to cover the base's life support needs.
Using Flisom style rolled PV thin film, the mass would be about 5 tonnes.
C. PMAD (Power Management and Distribution).
I usually add on 30% for PMAD equipment as a rough guesstimate but let's make it 2 tonnes to be on the safe side.
D. Additional air and water supplies to offset life support energy use in an emergency.
To cover 87 kgs of water and air per sol for a crew of six that would be 35 tonnes to provide cover for 400 sols. [Edited to add 10 tonnes for tanks and cylinders.]
E. Methane/oxygen electricity generator.
For additional energy security one might take along a generator powered by methane and oxygen. Let's put that at 1 tonne.
So the whole PV-battery-methane non-nuclear system would come in at under 130 tonnes .
The Kilopower nuclear reactors would have a mass of something like 150 tonnes (without any redundancy - if you added on 10% for back up, that would give you 165 tonnes).

SpaceNut · 2019-11-23 14:39:25

Last of the reposts which in there content talk about the powerwall and what its capable of. There may be more but they are good enough to collectivly give the details for lithium batteries.

SpaceNut · 2019-12-02 20:18:48

Repost:

tahanson43206 wrote:

The article at the link below reports on research that (apparently) shows increased lifetime for lithium batteries that use cobalt.
It also reports that cobalt is in short supply, and its procurement on Earth may be problematic.
For Calliban ...
I am hoping your study of asteroids (near Earth or otherwise) will help you to identify any which might contain sufficient quantities of cobalt to justify a venture to corral it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-million- … 10953.html
(th)

seems that we can substitute other elements for the electrode or cathode of the battery and make it still work....

SpaceNut · 2020-01-09 19:29:43

Safety in Battery Storage Options

Good history of lithium developement from 25 years to present in LiFePO₄ batteries.

Grid-Tied Solar with Lithium Battery Backup

Achieving this goal was complicated by the fact that the house is all-electric. It has electric baseboard heat, well pump, hot water, cooking, and dryer, each of which can draw a lot of power. The result is that a battery system would have to be very large to supply the potential top load regularly without shortening its life expectancy, or the system itself would have to be altered somewhat.
This is being achieved by combining different energy sources. The house has a roof that faces south and is well positioned for a solar system large enough to supply it with sufficient power for typical conditions. This would have to be combined with a sufficiently large storage system. The system would be grid-tied for the sake of reducing stress on the battery. And it would be backed up with a combination of propane and wood for heat to cover the needs of extended outages. The propane also supplies water heating.
In the end, High Peaks put in twenty-six Canadian Solar 325-watt panels. The inverter is from SMA. A sonnen battery system with five Sony batteries, each of 2.5 kilowatt-hours provides for backup. “The system is rapid-shutdown compliant, to the latest code standard,” Bailey told us.

tahanson43206 · 2020-01-28 08:01:50

The article at the link below reports on fire incidents which have occurred with lithium batteries.

The article provides some detail from several incidents, and includes assessment of the likely causes.

Because lithium batteries are receiving substantial investment, it is likely incidents of fires will continue.

The article reports calls for improved training of installers, operators and fire responders.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/ever … 36174.html

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-01-28 17:33:37

Fires in lithium batteries are quite intence and require a class d extinguisher to make it go out after its burning. These start with cracks within the casings that allows water in and over currents for heating internally that snowballs.

SpaceNut · 2020-01-31 22:54:43

MTU engineers examine lithium battery defects

Still need to read the article...
http://dx.doi.org/10.1557/jmr.2019.313

Less may be more in next-gen batteries

rice-lithium-ion-silicon-anodes-alumina-layer-battery-hg.jpg

conventional lithium-ion batteries utilize graphite-based anodes that have a capacity of less than 400 milliamp hours per gram (mAh/g), but silicon anodes have potentially 10 times that capacity. That comes with a downside: Silicon expands as it alloys with lithium, stressing the anode. By making the silicon porous and limiting its capacity to 1,000 mAh/g, the team's test batteries provided stable cycling with still-excellent capacity.
"Maximum capacity puts a lot of stress on the material, so this is a strategy to get capacity without the same degree of stress,"

http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/acsaem.9b01728

SpaceNut · 2020-02-08 19:17:54

Scientists offer an inkjet printing technology to make compact, flexible battery elements

Well we can print metals for solar cells so why not for batteries?

The researchers have shown that these elements can be printed on an inkjet printer, which will reduce the electrodes' thickness by 10-20 times and open up new possibilities for manufacturers of compact electronics. "We've managed to apply a layer of about 5 micrometers in thickness on the current collector. Existing industrial samples use cathode materials with a thickness of 100 micrometers. Laboratory samples created on the basis of other technologies give a thickness of 50 micrometers. Therefore, we were able to reduce the thickness by 10-20 times. It's not possible to make an ever smaller layer with this technology, because a short circuit will occur." The printing of ultra-thin current collectors with a cathode material can allow scientists to create a flexible battery that does not deform when bent.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/ente.201901086

This also sounds like it would work well for supercapacitors as well....

SpaceNut · 2020-02-08 19:31:59

4 topics that meantion this:
Nonflammable electrolyte for high-performance potassium batteries

This novel electrolyte contained triethyl phosphate as the sole component of the solvent. This substance is known as a flame retardant. It has been tested in lithium-ion batteries, but only very high concentrations provided enough stability for long-term operation, too high for industrial applications.
The battery industry demands dilute electrolytes, which are cheaper and ensure better performances. They combined the phosphate solvent with a commonly available potassium salt and obtained an electrolyte that did not burn and allowed stable cycling of the assembled battery concentrations of 0.9 to 2 moles per liter, which are concentrations that are suitable for larger scales; for example, in smart-grid applications.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/anie.201913174

SpaceNut · 2020-03-04 17:50:46

Looking for a cheaper battery thats not going to break the bank to replace would be nice and it seem GM's cheaper, adaptable Ultium batteries are key to its EV future

SpaceNut · 2020-03-19 23:08:48

The hybrid battery cost of mining for car ownership

SpaceNut · 2020-08-24 20:14:06

One thing that I was reading about is if the battery pack is under sized is that under the normal loads that the amount of life from the unit will degrade with each loading use. So we will need to ensure that the pack is a bit over sized for the normal use.

SpaceNut · 2020-11-24 13:54:03

Lets look at the lithium battery for storage issues.
First up is How to calculate the Watt Hours (Wh) of a lithium battery
yes its math but we must understand the battery in terms of what we can store and what is available to make use of before the voltage goes from full to what is considered dead. That value is dependent on the battery type being used.
The full to dead voltage change is hat we are able to use and store not the full voltage value times the amp/hr ratings. Its only the change to which we get to use.
How many watts solar do I need to charge a 12v 200ah battery.?

EV battery basics: All you need to know about kW, kWh, and charging speed

SpaceNut · 2020-12-22 20:48:18

For some there is confusion with charging a battery and what you can use from its storage in watt hours and in Ampere Hours.
Each battery chemistry will have there own respective levels that are used to indicate a fully charged battery versus a dead or low battery voltage that is not useable.

You will need to know:
The battery’s nominal voltage (V); and
its capacity in ampere-hours (Ah).
Multiply these two numbers to get the watt-hour rating (Ah × V = Wh).

Note: If the capacity of your battery is expressed in milliampere hours (mAh)—like in the image above— you will need to divide by 1,000 to calculate the ampere-hours (Ah) before multiplying.

https://batteryguy.com/kb/knowledge-bas … m-battery/

The key is to looking at the labeling on the battery to start.

But that is a full battery and not the value which is available when low.

The consumable is the full - low to know what we can draw from the battery.

shipping of batteries
https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/safecargo/me … Slides.pdf

Then as we have for regular lead acid batteries we have the cranking amp rating...
https://www.lithiumpros.com/blog/crank- … batteries/

SpaceNut · 2021-01-20 17:41:05

tahanson43206 wrote:

The article at the link below reports on what (sounds like) a significant advance in electric battery electrode design ...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/electric-car … 17690.html
While lithium-ion batteries use graphite as an electrode, the StoreDot battery works faster by replacing graphite with semiconductor nanoparticles that allow ions to pass more easily and quickly. The company expects to replace this electrode with silicon, a much cheaper component, by the end of the year.
Tesla is also working on developing silicon electrodes.
(th)

SpaceNut · 2021-07-01 21:35:20

The hidden danger
Illinois paper mill catches fire due to exploding lithium

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#1 2019-11-23 13:36:52

Lithium used for batteries

#2 2019-11-23 13:50:33

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#3 2019-11-23 13:53:52

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#4 2019-11-23 13:55:54

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#5 2019-11-23 14:02:38

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#6 2019-11-23 14:05:03

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#7 2019-11-23 14:06:31

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#8 2019-11-23 14:07:40

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#9 2019-11-23 14:10:58

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#10 2019-11-23 14:13:23

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#11 2019-11-23 14:39:25

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#12 2019-12-02 20:18:48

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#13 2020-01-09 19:29:43

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#14 2020-01-28 08:01:50

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#15 2020-01-28 17:33:37

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#16 2020-01-31 22:54:43

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#17 2020-02-08 19:17:54

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#18 2020-02-08 19:31:59

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#19 2020-03-04 17:50:46

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#20 2020-03-19 23:08:48

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#21 2020-08-24 20:14:06

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#22 2020-11-24 13:54:03

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#23 2020-12-22 20:48:18

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#24 2021-01-20 17:41:05

Re: Lithium used for batteries

#25 2021-07-01 21:35:20

Re: Lithium used for batteries

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