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#51 2019-04-15 17:55:43

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Well Louis, I would say the guy is mostly goofing on people, but with some crumbs of actual desired intention.  But perhaps things that cannot be attained.

The guy is entitled to some fun here and there in my opinion.  And some extra permissions as well.

……

But for your entertainment I will ponder some of the wormhole references he left behind, from my point reference which is not necessarily like his, or what he is up to.

The reference to the "Ring of fire".
Quote:

Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Apr 14
Starship will land on a ring of fire

One connection to him for this is this:  https://www.tmz.com/2017/10/27/elon-mus … hnny-cash/ 

I think that that comes from a while back, and may be connected to Tesla.

For me the ring of fire is a propulsive cushion of rocket plume aimed upwards from the ground, and the landing device should have something like a wing, in order to get a cushioned landing.  To complete this you might have a "Bouncy House" (But not necessarily).  I would float the bouncy house barge in a pond.  Then upon impact both the air cushioned platform and the pond water would dissipate impact force.  But this could easily be a false reference to what Elon might have in mind.

But for a short time Elon Musk said he wanted to make a Mini-BFR out of the 2nd stage of Falcon 9 and recover it with....
http://fortune.com/2018/04/16/elon-musk … ncy-house/

But he almost immediately abandoned the idea of a Mini-BFR.  Soon, I think I started hearing about a revision of BFR, and eventually the use of Stainless Steel.

Another thing that Elon Musk has said is "Cyborg Dragon".
http://fortune.com/2018/04/25/elon-musk … n-twitter/

Some of these references are getting messed up by time and interference.  However the query "Cyborg Dragon" with Elon Musk will reference that for you if you like.
……


I will try to shorten this up.  He definitely said without certainty of success, that the dragon wings would be of Stainless Steel, and he hoped that they could get the peak temperature endured during re-entry at ~1000 degC.  In that case he said that only bare metal would be needed for any of the heat shield.  I presume that is for both Earth and Mars.  It seems to be an asperation, and not a certainty.


However, if I reference his previous work, I don't think he is that devoted to proper wings, rather they would be to increase the surface area of the craft while not proportionally increasing it's mass, and so getting favor on peak temperature.

…..

The next part is my opinion only.  If the "Wings" exist, and the "Burning Ring of Fire", were indeed a plume of rocket engines firing upwards from the ground, then the wings could also help the craft land on a cushion of "Upward firing Plume".  Stainless Steel might endure it for a short time, and a short time might be enough.

This trick might be quite useful if you were trying to land heavy loads.

However I would not try it with people on board.

And that's about all I have.  Hold your pillory as, I do not hold any of this speculation as being particularly accurate as to what Elon Musk or SpaceX may be up to.

You asked, I volunteered to be the fool.
smile
Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-04-15 18:21:31)


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#52 2019-04-15 18:29:41

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Here another reference to his play time:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/elon-musk … s-starship
Quote:

Just before the return of HBO’s mega-hit “Game of Thrones,” Musk tweeted that he was “thinking about adding giant stainless steel dragon wings to Starship” that could allow his eventually-Mars-bound spacecraft to keep cool during re-entry. “Starship will land on a ring of fire,” he added later.



Winter is Coming
When asked how serious he was on a scale of one to ten, Musk gave the plan a 6.5. And, to be fair, we’ve thought Musk was joking about plenty of things before — leading to his fair share of successes.
He put together a company devoted to digging tunnels called The Boring Company, for instance — and even marketed a novelty flamethrower.

Shoot for the Moon
Besides, SpaceX’s Starship is just as much of a moonshot as Musk’s other endeavors: a spacecraft that’s meant to shift the paradigm interplanetary travel, eventually offering up to 100 passengers a trip to the Moon or even Mars. From red-hot, futuristic “heatshield hex tiles” to a shiny retro-looking stainless steel dome, Starship is already looking like something straight out of science fiction.
So why not throw some high fantasy legendary creature wings on top of the pile?
READ MORE: ‘Game of Thrones’: Elon Musk Proposes Dragon Wings for SpaceX Starship [Inverse]
More on Starship: SpaceX’s Starship Hopper Completes First Tethered “Hop”
PEER REVIEWED CONTENT FROM PARTNERS WE LOVE


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Dragon Wings
Elon Musk Suggests

Last edited by Void (2019-04-15 18:31:55)


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#53 2019-04-15 18:38:44

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

So is he thinking of fold up kind mesh steel wings which would create a huge surface area and slow the vehicle down considerably?


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#54 2019-04-15 18:39:04

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Late april fools for sure on one of his smoking binges...

The Starship use for transportation coast to coast and for travel to orbit on BFR will have different levels of heat shielding and for landing mass as the landing legs will be different since they need shielding on atmospheric entry and not so much for the coast to coast use.

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#55 2019-04-21 10:11:42

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Whoops - not on this occasion...

Trouble with the Crew Dragon. Pretty serious by the sound of it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48001382


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#56 2019-04-21 19:12:47

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

This is a big deal as it deals with the super Draco escape engines....

https://www.space.com/spacex-crew-drago … omaly.html

A large plumes of smoke were seen emanating from the area, indicating something had gone wrong while in the test stand.....

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#57 2019-04-22 05:19:22

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Yep v. serious.  Obviously no one can risk crew. Unless the fault is obvious and easily remedied, this means delay and also delay in a useful cashflow coming on stream.


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#58 2019-04-22 12:21:35

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,729
Website

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

It's hard to tell what "anomaly" means in this case,  as neither NASA nor Spacex have come forward to say what happended. 

It sounds from the various sparse reports like a SuperDraco thruster blew up,  and damaged or destroyed the Crew Dragon it was mounted on. But that is only a guess,  I have seen nothing to confirm or deny that interpretation. 

According to one report I saw,  some NASA sources are already talking about delaying the manned flight of Crew Dragon until after the date for Boeing's Starliner.  Somehow,  I don't find that very surprising at all.  Both are contractors,  but one is still favored mightily over the other.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#59 2019-04-22 16:30:35

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Here's an interesting video suggesting it was before ignition...probably some sort of weakness in the fuel/propellant storage system following the splashdown recovery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpSC1Ztf1UQ&t=32s

GW Johnson wrote:

It's hard to tell what "anomaly" means in this case,  as neither NASA nor Spacex have come forward to say what happended. 

It sounds from the various sparse reports like a SuperDraco thruster blew up,  and damaged or destroyed the Crew Dragon it was mounted on. But that is only a guess,  I have seen nothing to confirm or deny that interpretation. 

According to one report I saw,  some NASA sources are already talking about delaying the manned flight of Crew Dragon until after the date for Boeing's Starliner.  Somehow,  I don't find that very surprising at all.  Both are contractors,  but one is still favored mightily over the other.

GW


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#60 2019-04-22 17:40:11

kbd512
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Registered: 2015-01-02
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Re: Space X - another successful mission...

I wonder if this is another one of those COPV's or similar pressure vessel that failed because of inadequate quality control.

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#61 2019-04-22 18:38:48

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-crew-dragon-explosion/

Crew-Dragon-DM-1-Port-Canaveral-GO-Searcher-return-031019-NASA-3-crop-c.jpg

SpaceX’s first flight-proven Crew Dragon capsule suffered a catastrophic explosion seconds before a planned SuperDraco test fire.

https://www.al.com/news/2019/04/here-is … omaly.html

SpaceX was putting its Dragon capsule through a series of test fires on the pad at Cape Canaveral when the anomaly happened. The plan was to test the capsule’s smaller maneuvering thrusters, then move on to firing the main engine.

SpaceX had reportedly planned to use this Dragon capsule for an upcoming in-flight abort test that requires the Dragon to escape from its Falcon 9 booster at the point of peak aerodynamic stress. Reports suggest the anomaly happened seconds before the main engine was to be ignited.

That would be serious. The escape thrusters are pressurized and ready if a problem develops in the main engine and not before the main engine fires.

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#62 2019-04-22 18:42:33

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Mic or Orion not too happy either...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBR2BTJ56zk

He doesn't like the re-entry/splashdown/sea water entry process...

I'm with him.

Bring on the Starship!


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#63 2019-04-22 19:31:52

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

The failure mode was in the load and go area of launch that had nasa with concern some time ago before getting the go ahead, well I guess thats not going to stay....

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#64 2019-04-26 08:22:19

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 3,729
Website

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

According to AIAA’s “Daily Launch” newsletter for today (Fri 4-26-19),  the explosion happened after the “eight engines” were fired.  So far,  that is the only report I have seen making that claim.  “Eight engines” refers to the 8 Super Draco thrusters. 

The silence means no one has figured out yet what went wrong.  This isn’t like the old all-NASA missions;  private contractor-operated missions are not required to tell all that they know immediately to the public. 

They are required to file an initial report with 15 days of the incident (I think with EPA),  so maybe at that time more information will be forthcoming.  We’ll see.

The best information I have regarding the crew Dragon design says that both the Draco attitude thrusters and the 8 Super Draco engines draw propellants from the same supply system.  This supply is enlarged about 50% over what is on the cargo Dragon,  but is packaged in the same unpressurized space between the outer mold line and the capsule pressure shell,  near the heat shield end.

The smaller propellant supply system in cargo Dragon seems to survive reentry just fine.  They have re-flown cargo Dragons.  So,  unless there is an unsuspected vulnerability of the Super Draco thrusters to reentry conditions,  we are “more likely” looking for some other cause.

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#65 2019-05-02 14:24:49

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Not good as its quite a set back SpaceX capsule was destroyed in 'anomaly': lawmaker

The capsule that exploded was to be launched by a rocket in the coming months during a full-scale test of its in-flight abort system that would allow it to return to Earth in case of an emergency.

SpaceX and NASA must now urgently work to discover the cause of the explosion as well as replace the capsule -- calling into question NASA's stated goal of launching American astronauts into space from US soil by the end of 2019.

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#66 2019-05-03 04:23:20

Yuri Pilipishin
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From: Lviv, Ukraine
Registered: 2017-05-21
Posts: 24
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Re: Space X - another successful mission...

SpaceNut wrote:

Not good as its quite a set back SpaceX capsule was destroyed in 'anomaly': lawmaker

The capsule that exploded was to be launched by a rocket in the coming months during a full-scale test of its in-flight abort system that would allow it to return to Earth in case of an emergency.

SpaceX and NASA must now urgently work to discover the cause of the explosion as well as replace the capsule -- calling into question NASA's stated goal of launching American astronauts into space from US soil by the end of 2019.

It would be wise to investigate a possibility of a terrorist attack.

The delay in launching of U.S. manned spacecraft to ISS is very beneficial for the Russian Federation, since NASA now uses 'Soyuz' spacecraft for transportation to the ISS. This provides Moscow with a serious leverage on the United States, and Moscow is obviously interested in delaying and discrediting all American projects that could make Russian spacecraft unnecessary. They have money, agents, and all the necessary experience for such a special operation.

Here in Ukraine, we are tired of watching Moscow use such levers of pressure on the United States, to destroy our own capabilities, and we are interested that NASA would gain independence from Roskosmos. Russians have been repeatedly suspected in committing of high-tech terrorist attacks, for example, the collapse of the 'Columbia' spaceship could also have been set up by them.

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#67 2019-05-12 17:01:47

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

This is rather interesting about StarLink.
https://www.geekwire.com/2019/elon-musk … on-rocket/
60 Satellites launched on one Falcon 9.  Small things.

I guess if they can make it work and launch so many on one Falcon 9, they might make it pay.  But there is a lot of competition it seems.
I wonder if Amazon and the others can somehow assist each others systems without violating monopoly rules?

A piece of the pie is better than none.

Anyway, if I am becoming a posting pest, I will be happy to withdraw.  It is not in my nature to want to wreck other members satisfaction of this site.

Done.


I like people who criticize angels dancing on a pinhead.  I also like it when angels dance on my pinhead.

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#68 2019-05-12 17:26:58

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

I think they have to launch tens of thousands don't they for global coverage?

But Space X have always seen this as their milk cow - potentially delivering billions of dollars of revenue every year and basically funding Mars colonisation.  Of all the Space X projects it is probably the most important.


Void wrote:

This is rather interesting about StarLink.
https://www.geekwire.com/2019/elon-musk … on-rocket/
60 Satellites launched on one Falcon 9.  Small things.

I guess if they can make it work and launch so many on one Falcon 9, they might make it pay.  But there is a lot of competition it seems.
I wonder if Amazon and the others can somehow assist each others systems without violating monopoly rules?

A piece of the pie is better than none.

Anyway, if I am becoming a posting pest, I will be happy to withdraw.  It is not in my nature to want to wreck other members satisfaction of this site.

Done.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#69 2019-05-12 21:12:28

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Hay Louis thanks for communication.

Quote (From the link of my previous post):
Quote:

The master plan calls for an initial constellation of more than 4,400 satellites, followed by a second set of 7,500 satellites. All those satellites, plus up to a million ground terminals, are meant to serve as the foundation for an Internet access service that Musk hopes will generate the revenue for building a city on Mars.

So....Umm....I don't know all that much about this.  But sometimes I like to dip into the unknown.  That is how it might get better known.

All I know is that they will have competition, and that includes Amazon now.  Why are both of my tech parents daddies and why are they younger than me?  How does that work?  Ummm… smile really, we won't know until we know, if we can recognize that we know when we do know, if we do...ever.

real stupid and admitting it.

Dompe.


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#70 2019-05-13 17:09:49

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

The size of the small numerous satelites are not to be expected to last for very long maye a decade and they are also not all that expensive for what they will be able to do. The total system count of satelites is to give greater level of coverage for the systems operation. SpaceX has plans to deploy nearly 12,000 satellites in three orbital shells by the mid-2020s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_ … tellation)

SpaceX filed documents in late 2017 with the US FCC to clarify their space debris mitigation plan. The company will "implement an operations plan for the orderly de-orbit of satellites nearing the end of their useful lives (roughly five to seven years) at a rate far faster than is required under international standards. [Satellites] will de-orbit by propulsively moving to a disposal orbit from which they will reenter the Earth's atmosphere within approximately one year after completion of their mission."

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#71 2019-06-09 05:31:47

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Latest update video from Cloudlicker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV3EDG3Vj4k


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#72 2019-06-09 08:41:24

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Well nice to see Void's prepost of your posting event was what would come to be.

Is there anything in words and images not a video to its content...

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#73 2019-06-09 10:39:27

Void
Member
Registered: 2011-12-29
Posts: 3,011

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

30 is the one where they talk about new revisions of wings, flaps, and legs.  But those are not described, rather it is a to be announced thing.

Done.


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#74 2019-07-17 13:04:59

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,186

Re: Space X - another successful mission...


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#75 2019-07-17 16:20:03

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 16,834

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

News has it that a titanium valve was the cause of the massive explosion and damaged to the prototype Manned dragon....

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Space … e_999.html

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