Stargate!

Void · 2019-02-20 13:38:26

Well Star liner and Starship, why not?

I guess I may be here as a new chew toy for bored dogs, or catnip and a white mouse for bored cats. But oh well.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/rela … rs-2018-10
Quote:

Defectors from SpaceX, Blue Origin, and Tesla are developing a remarkable technology called 'Stargate' to help colonize other planets

Quote:

Ellis said the Terran rocket should be reusable and inexpensive to make. The goal is to start with smaller payloads and be price-competitive with SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket.

So, they are having a baby. Glad I didn't have to watch the cross pollination. But glad for the baby as well.

Might this also lead into the change of Starship to Metal? The notion being that Starship might eventually be 3D printed, and metal is less expensive than carbon fiber composites I read.

And then this then brings a new question. Should other than the 1st stage in a sub-orbital flight be recovered to the surface of Earth? What if you can recycle 2nd and 3rd stages to be metal for 3D printers. Is that in some cases a better option?

Granted Starship would do quite a few nifty things per Earth surface. But it apparently is going to be quite a fussy baby. What if Falcon 9/Dragon and New Glen/? and such would do for returning people to the surface? What if you either put interlunar and interplanetary ships in orbit, or what if they are shipping crates which you recycle into a 3D printer 'Stargate'?

Per ~Dr. Zubrin, we want to put stuff there. Actually we want to put most people permanently there. Just having a leakage method to bring a few people back may be sufficient.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-02-20 16:46:05)

SpaceNut · 2019-02-20 18:28:22

I think that there is still some market growth in the small light payloads orbital and less for the right price. One can only hope that they look at the remaining business which could be had for getting man to orbit as well.

Void · 2019-02-20 21:15:20

Spacenut said:

I think that there is still some market growth in the small light payloads orbital and less for the right price. One can only hope that they look at the remaining business which could be had for getting man to orbit as well.

I think it looks rather good. I will say that as prices go down, the amount of payloads to various off Earth places should go up.

They indicate:
Quote:

However, Relativity Space sees itself eventually printing larger and even more economical rockets.

So, it is hard for me to see that SpaceX and Blue Origin and others will not either hire parts from these newcomers, or develop something of their own. Maybe some of each.

I also wonder about standardization to a point with collaboration.

For instance, I may be confused, but I think the Blue Moon may be made so that several types of lifters can get it off Earth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Origin_Blue_Moon
That might be an example. Also I wonder about pre-existing proven crewed capsules. Could this new company get them from other companies, and not bother building a proving one themselves? It becomes a very interesting mesh of where competition and collaboration may happen. I suspect that competition will be more likely near Earth a collaboration more likely beyond LEO. I think the government heads may nod to that.

While the SpaceX's longest one stage reach might be to the surface of Mars. (That is using BFR(SuperHeavy/Starship) But that really complicates other processes to some extent.

For instance while I believe Blue Origin is now on board for Mars as well, their vision seems to be more towards the Moon and orbital space stations that can support heavy industry, and also I presume significant population. I rather like that, as 3D printers more local to Earth can be fixed easier.

To me this then questions the value of bringing metal mass back down to Earth more than is necessary. If you could recycle some of the dumb parts in orbit, and yet I suppose bring the "Smart" parts down for reuse (Engines), that makes sense to me. However I am not sure. If you could grind up the engines and make something valuable in orbit maybe that could be the way. Even better, get the metals from the Moon, asteroids or say Mars.

And they are thinking of having their Stargate Maker be able to manufacture structure on Mars, and so I presume the Moon, from crappy materials (At least in part).

I hope I can live another 20 years, it looks fabulous.

Relax....
I suggest you query for a video "The eyes of a Child by the Moody Blues".

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-02-20 22:00:46)

Void · 2019-02-21 08:05:33

A marriage I would like to investigate the potential for would be crewed capsules mated to reusable 1st stages. I believe that SpaceX is the closest at this point with Falcon 9 + Dragon. Boeing also in the running.

The Russians have a rather tried and true one, and China also I guess.

The SLS has a capsule.

Then there is also Dream Chaser. That has my interest at this time. It is not crew rated, but if deployed would be cargo up / cargo down in capabilities. Earth Surface <> LEO.

Loosing the space shuttle was necessary. Getting the "Starship" would be welcome.

But I wonder about putting Dream Chaser on top of a reusable 1st stage.

Relativity Space might provide the "Stargate" capability, and maybe with permission they might be able to make knockoffs of the BE4, BE3, or Raptor engines. Maybe in collaboration with whomever.

So then for me I would think for a specific purpose Dream Chaser with a low cost 1st stage system, might fill out some specific needs, especially if it could eventually be crew rated.

I might be setting myself for a slap-up from actuals who know better, but so what. Slap away.

As I see it the notion would be something like the space shuttle, before it got solid rockets and an external fuel tank. But it would be much smaller, and I see that as a relative advantage for aerobraking. If I understand, surface area is bad for going up through the troposphere, but good for aerobraking. The more surface area you have per mass and volume, the better you are off for aerobraking. I am guessing that it would be impractical to aerobrake the thing from a trans lunar orbit though. My expectations are that it is suitable to aerobrake from LEO, and that seems OK.

Don't get me wrong, I still want the SpaceX BRF(Super Heavy / Starship), but I think that a matured Dream Chaser would be great to have as well, especially if crew rated.

One other thing I would like would be recycling of part or all of a 2nd stage device in LEO, and perhaps other places like the Moon.

In other words, one way 2nd stage crates to get freight to orbit. The freight being used directly to it's intended purpose, and the crates recycled to purposes off Earth.

The crate itself could become pressure shells, or might be recycled as a materials source, and utilized by the Stargate. The problem of what to do with the expensive parts would need a solution. If they are too valuable to recycle, then bring those parts back down to Earth to recycle. Perhaps Starship would be good at that.

I not so long ago suggested pulling most of the engines from a Proto-Starship shell in LEO, and then flying it to the Moon, and landing it on it's side (Side topple engine required). I would also suggest perhaps doing similar in LEO. Perhaps making a farm out of it.

A spin would not create that much synthetic gravity, but would hold lunar derived soil to it's interior stainless steel surface. This soil would also add radiation shielding. Artificial lighting most likely the method. Who knows, perhaps we find out that ~1/20th g is enough for this type of farming in LEO. And the "Shell" served an original purpose as a crate to bring freight to LEO before that.

It's not Mars direct, and I am not trying to stop Mars direct. But these things may contribute to an actual sustainable and vigorous human occupation of the solar system.

We already know that not all space money is going to head directly to Mars. It is probably good practice to integrate and enter solar system plan for the human race. Mars direct might be included.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-02-21 08:31:52)

SpaceNut · 2019-02-21 17:55:44

The last time a single stage to orbit capsule was design Nasa did not have the tanks for the vehicle to be made use of and its been corrected by spacex if they did use them in the bfr.
It was called The VentureStar was a proposed SSTO spaceplane.
Others are listed in the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VentureStar

It could be an updated design made with the Raptors and the new composite tanks based around the appearence of the x-33. Doing what spacex is planning to do by refilling the tanks on orbit. Then off you go as far as the engines and fuel will take it.

Void · 2019-02-21 20:06:25

Spacenut. The materials you presented in your post #5 are interesting on their own, but they do not seem to relate to the materials I presented in my post #4.

I made no mention of Single Stage To Orbit.

I did most specifically suggest as my primary topic, that I would like to see the Dream Chaser space plane mated to a reusable first stage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Chaser

And I was thinking that this new company composed of former employees from various companies could use their "Stargate" to build it in a low cost fashion.

This is the company that is making "Stargate": Relativity Space
https://www.businessinsider.com/categor … 1550801375
Quote:

Dave Mosher 11,684
Defectors from SpaceX, Blue Origin, and Tesla are developing a remarkable technology called 'Stargate' to help colonize other planets

Here again is more information about "Stargate".
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/rela … rs-2018-10

Not a big, big problem, but I felt that I wanted to see things get close to topic.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2019-02-21 20:17:23)

SpaceNut · 2019-02-21 22:33:01

Void wrote:

A marriage I would like to investigate the potential for would be crewed capsules mated to reusable 1st stages.

Miss read thou that describes a SSTO but the next sentence means a rocket system that has more stages with one being reuseable.

“We feel like it’s inevitable that if humanity is going out to colonize other planets, 3D-printing is really the only way to manufacture things like tools and replacement parts,”
The kind of 3D-printing Ellis is referring to is called laser sintering. The system uses laser beams to bond powdered metal, layer by layer, into precise and complex structures that have minimal parts.

3D metal powdered printing using a laser to sinter the material layers... We talked about the item until its dead...in lots of topics...

Mars has no ore ready to use, it has no refined powered materials and it has no means to deliver the mass or the energy system require to power it.

Now how to use the tech that is being used on earth to make lots of stuff needs customers that want what they can do and make.

3D printing topic search

Void · 2019-02-22 12:27:48

You are being unfair, and misrepresenting things that I have posted. Perhaps you just don't have time to read. That's OK. We can let this lie fallow for now.

Done.

SpaceNut · 2019-02-22 18:40:14

Made from rocks, rubble, meteors, moons and planetoids shoved in a 3D machine to print out a Dyson Sphere

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7698
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7425
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7238
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7092
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7090
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7086
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=5683

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#1 2019-02-20 13:38:26

Stargate!

#2 2019-02-20 18:28:22

Re: Stargate!

#3 2019-02-20 21:15:20

Re: Stargate!

#4 2019-02-21 08:05:33

Re: Stargate!

#5 2019-02-21 17:55:44

Re: Stargate!

#6 2019-02-21 20:06:25

Re: Stargate!

#7 2019-02-21 22:33:01

Re: Stargate!

#8 2019-02-22 12:27:48

Re: Stargate!

#9 2019-02-22 18:40:14

Re: Stargate!

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