Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

Void · 2017-01-07 18:15:37

I think a post for this is reasonable. Anything happening on Earth for Hyperloop could be reviewed for it's potential utility on Mars.

I believe Elon Musk has indicated that it could operate in the open Martian air without a tube.

I personally am looking at the icy deposits of Utopia Planetia, and other such places, and ultimately the polar ice deposit's and thinking why not tubes through the ice?

Last edited by Void (2017-01-07 18:19:19)

Void · 2017-01-07 18:20:30

Here is an Earth based article.

http://phys.org/news/2017-01-cities-vie … -rail.html
Quote:

Hyperloop One says the system offers better safety than passenger jets, lower build and maintenance costs than high-speed trains, and energy usage, per person, that is similar to a bicycle.

Utopia Planetia:
http://mars.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/ … nitia-mars
subsurface-water-ice-utopia-planitia-mars-map-pia21138-br2.jpg

Location of Large Subsurface Water-Ice Deposit in Utopia Planitia, Mars
Diagonal striping on this map of a portion of the Utopia Planitia region on Mars indicates the area where a large subsurface deposit rich in water ice was assessed using the Shallow Radar (SHARAD) instrument on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.
The area is about halfway between the planet's equator and north pole, and the deposit is estimated to hold about as much water as what is in Lake Superior, largest of the Great Lakes.
The scale bar at lower right indicates 140 kilometers (76 miles). The violet vertical bars show depth to the bottom of the ice-rich deposit, as estimated from SHARAD passes overhead. Darkest violet indicates a depth of about 550 feet (about 170 meters). Palest violet indicates a depth of about 33 feet (10 meters).

So, a bit different than for Earth, I suggest that on Mars the Hyperloop be in underground tubes at a shallower debth, and elevators could connect it to a pressurized tunnel system further down. Exactly what buildings, subsurface parks, and underground factory facilities would be connected would be worked out. A Martian city ~the size of New Mexico. And if water ran low in a century or so, by then the polar ice caps could be tapped to bring replacement water.

That's a nice map, if nothing else.

I guess now that I think about it, in some locations of concentrated activity, just a regular subway system would do. That could be connected up to the hyperloop system.

Last edited by Void (2017-01-07 18:35:54)

SpaceNut · 2017-01-07 21:42:42

Hyperloop= a Train in a tunnel, which could be above ground or below....
I can see below ground tunnels being used by lots of transportational methods, initally possibly bikes until electric motors are more available...or fill it with a little water and float you way down the tunnel in a row boat ect...

SpaceNut · 2018-10-21 17:51:22

Hyperloop’s first full-scale passenger capsule revealed

The capsule, which is 105 feet long and weighs 5 tons, was unveiled in Cadiz, Spain, on Tuesday. The tube-like transportation system, billed as “an airplane without wings,” is designed to transport people through low-pressure steel tubes at a speed of 620 miles per hour, which roughly matches a typical passenger aircraft. "In just five years we have solved and improved upon all of the technology needed for Hyperloop with our new levitation system, vacuum pumps, batteries, and smart composites,"

https://hyperloop-one.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop … chnologies

Possible connectionpoints:

How it will work:

louis · 2018-10-21 18:08:52

Hyperloop has always struck me as perfect for Mars. For one thing have [not] got neighbourhoods to protest about the "eyesore" of the tubes. For another, it seems unlikely jet air travel can be developed on Mars any time seen. I suppose though that M2M BFRs offer a rival mode of transport (but even for intra Mars travel, it will be v stressful on your body, whereas the hyperloop will offer a smooth ride without those big G forces).

Last edited by louis (2018-10-23 01:33:31)

Belter · 2018-10-21 19:34:23

A monorail would be almost as fast as a hyperloop in the thin air of Mars. I deny that the Hyperloop problems have been so easily solved. Keeping a low pressure over thousands of miles is going to be ridiculously expensive and power consuming. Keeping the whole tube sealed would require massive amounts of maintenance and regular closures.

Void · 2018-10-21 21:53:53

You may be correct about hyperloop on Earth.
However I believe Elon Musk does not intend to bore tunnels on Mars for hyperloop. It will be above ground there.

However, I don't see the need to go so fast on Mars by ground travel anyway. Why not just use a rocket powered hopper on Mars if you want to go a distance and at a high speed.

As for the underground road system that the Boring Company is working on for city traffic, I feel that would be very good on Mars. Not as fast, but plenty fast, and emergency shelter, if you needed it. Plus a reservoir for air if you needed that during a global dust storm or other problem.

This sort of thing:
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/elon-musks … ound-roads
Quote:

Once underground, the platform links into a network and autonomously rockets the car through one of many layers of tunnels at speeds of up to 124 mph seamlessly integrating it into traffic like a data packet in a broadband communications system, according to TechCrunch.

I think 124 mph is plenty fast.

Done

Last edited by Void (2018-10-21 21:54:59)

SpaceNut · 2018-10-22 19:31:49

The reason for below ground is you can mining on a straight line or slightly curved and add lining if you find water but on the surface you must contend with buildings and hill sides, lakes, mountains....

Mars does not have lakes or buildings but the mountains and cavassas would be an issue....

louis · 2018-10-23 01:36:53

A monorail is exposed to all the vagariers of the extreme Mars temperature range. I suspect building it from the sorts of materials that could resist damage from that range would prove prohibitively expensive.

Presumably hyperloop is more easily kept low pressure on Mars where the atmosphere is already low pressure. Does it even need to be depressurised, one wonders?

Belter wrote:

A monorail would be almost as fast as a hyperloop in the thin air of Mars. I deny that the Hyperloop problems have been so easily solved. Keeping a low pressure over thousands of miles is going to be ridiculously expensive and power consuming. Keeping the whole tube sealed would require massive amounts of maintenance and regular closures.

Void · 2018-10-23 07:48:47

I recall Elon Musk saying it can operate at ambient conditions on the surface. Perhaps with some sacrifice of speed and some energy losses I suppose.

Last edited by Void (2018-10-23 07:49:31)

Belter · 2018-10-23 10:19:24

Cold is a problem, though I don't thing creating a much more costly tunnel will help that much. I think the reality is that this is also way far off after we're all dead so I think high speed rovers make a lot more sense. On a flat surface, they could go hundreds of miles per hour.

kbd512 · 2018-10-31 20:24:21

Why not use airships on Earth, Mars, and Venus for bulk cargo transport?

Insane speeds generally require insane amounts of power and sophisticated / costly engineering and maintenance for reliable operations. Cargo ships and trains still deliver most of the cargo on Earth, but modern airships could deliver the same cargo with a lot less infrastructure or fuel, at faster speeds, especially on Mars.

elderflower · 2018-11-01 03:15:02

Airships aren't a practical proposition on Mars due to the extremely low density of the atmosphere. Air ships depend on the difference in density between the lifting gas in the vessel and the atmosphere that it displaces.

kbd512 · 2018-11-01 20:09:59

Elderflower,

There are airships that have flown to 130,000 feet or more on Earth. If airships have utility that high into Earth's atmosphere, I'm pretty sure they can also be useful on Mars, especially using Hydrogen as the lifting gas in a CO2 atmosphere.

SpaceNut · 2018-11-02 19:09:05

Hydrogen on mars for a blimp cargo vessel will be best for a lifting gas but there will be limits to the cargo. Then again helium will also work but the volume for lift will need to be increased.

What we are talking about is a Martian Transportation Infrastructure
where Dirigibles on Mars - A practical means of transport?

Maybe the air will be a bit hard to do at first but traveling by sea since mars will be long for one.
Roads in time will have lots of vehicle types but will start with a few select types.
While rails might not be all that atractive for mars as compared to this topic but will also be quite easy to implement.

SpaceNut · 2020-05-14 19:51:08

Elon Musk’s Boring Company finishes digging Las Vegas tunnels

Boring_tunnel__2.0.jpg

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-09 10:41:10

here's an update on progress with one of the competing versions of Hyperloop:
https://www.businessinsider.com/virgin- … ph-2020-11

The Mars connection (as I see it anyway) is that very little work would be required to achieve the "vacuum" needed for operation of the transport system.

Todo item (for someone who might have a few minutes to spare): Compare existing Hyperloop vacuum on Earth, to the natural atmosphere of Mars.

I'm betting the two are fairly close.

(th)

Calliban · 2020-11-09 13:09:07

To produce the air cushion on Mars, liquid CO2 could be pumped along the track in a pipe and boiled. The gas would bleed through holes converting pressure energy into gas velocity. Of some benefit perhaps is that cold CO2 gas has a lower molecular speed than air at room temperature. This would presumably reduce leakage losses from the track. However, it does mean that more gas is needed to produce any given pressure. The use of liquid CO2 eliminates the need for a compressor and the energy consumed is essentially ambient heat used to boil the CO2. The track can be reheated after use by allowing it to absord sunlight.

tahanson43206 · 2020-11-09 18:36:50

For Calliban re #18

Thanks for your observations about using Hyperloop on Mars.

It will be fun to come back to this topic when there is more news from the terrestrial experiments.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-11-09 18:59:11

We have 2 players in the game...Virgin and Elon Musk with his boring company of which there vision is quite a bit different in goals.

The third is a pedal powered tube where people provide the power to move with in its diameter.

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-25 19:31:55

This topic (by Void) is the only one that contains the word "hyperloop" in the title...

The article at the link below is about a Chinese version of the concept ... it will (if built) use magnetic levitation and evacuated tubes.

The potential speed of trains might reach 600 miles an hour, which would match aircraft without the pollution.

Passengers might still have to endure security checks, but at least the trains would not be subject to weather holds.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/equilibrium- … 51591.html

Saul Elbein
Mon, October 24, 2022 at 5:29 PM
A new Chinese prototype train could one day transport passengers between the country’s far-flung, populous cities at more than 600 miles per hour.
The new-model form of mass transit — developed by the state-run China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation — integrates two distinct technologies to try to solve the main obstacles to moving ground-level transport at such high speeds, according to the South China Morning Post.
First, it seeks to remove the friction between the wheels and truck by means of magnetic levitation — or “maglev” — in which similarly charged magnets in the track and body of the train push each other apart, creating a friction-free cushion for the train to float on.
Second, it removes air resistance by means of sealed tunnels from which the air has been pumped out — mimicking the thin atmospheres traversed by high-flying aircraft.
These two innovations together would allow trains to “fly on the ground,” the government engineers said in a statement.
Critics note that this sort of “hyperloop” system is incredibly expensive and requires immense investment in infrastructure, the Morning Post noted.
But it also neatly sidesteps the immense challenge of finding a zero-carbon fuel for air travel, which is currently the only high-speed means of moving between the widespread population centers of China — or the United States.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-02-22 08:30:46

If high speed Trains can almost deliver the same then moving Towards tomorrow’s transport might not involve Hyperloop for now...

'Hyperloop bullet trains are firing blanks. This year marks a decade since a crop of companies hopped on the hyperloop, and they haven't traveled.'

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/02/ … lrf0000001

Hyperloop Startups are Dying a Quiet Death

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/02/ … iet-death/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-02-22 08:33:12)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-30 12:40:00

Robots will explore the interiors of Mars and the Moon with “bread crumbs”
https://universemagazine.com/en/robots- … ad-crumbs/

Elon Musk's Boring Company wants to build even more tunnels under Las Vegas
https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/22/elo … las-vegas/

'almost double its network of tunnels under Las Vegas'

Zaragoza chosen as Spain's first stop for futuristic Hyperloop
https://www.thelocal.es/20221010/zarago … -hyperloop

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-06-13 07:57:49

‘Lunar railroad’ concept to put trains on Moon gets backing from US government
https://www.independent.co.uk/space/moo … 16248.html
Network could transport humans, supplies and resources across the lunar surface

The future of travel is near: Europe’s longest tunnel for testing hyperloop technology opens in the Netherlands
https://www.scmp.com/yp/discover/articl … etherlands

NASA steadily expands AI and autonomy for Mars exploration
https://spacenews.com/nasa-steadily-exp … ploration/

FLOAT
https://www.nasa.gov/general/float-flex … n-a-track/

The FLOAT system employs unpowered magnetic robots that levitate over a 3-layer flexible film track: a graphite layer enables robots to passively float over tracks using diamagnetic levitation, a flex-circuit layer generates electromagnetic thrust to controllably propel robots along tracks, and an optional thin-film solar panel layer generates power for the base when in sunlight. FLOAT robots have no moving parts and levitate over the track to minimize lunar dust abrasion / wear, unlike lunar robots with wheels, legs, or tracks.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-06-13 07:59:38)

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#1 2017-01-07 18:15:37

Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#2 2017-01-07 18:20:30

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#3 2017-01-07 21:42:42

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#4 2018-10-21 17:51:22

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#5 2018-10-21 18:08:52

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#6 2018-10-21 19:34:23

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#7 2018-10-21 21:53:53

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#8 2018-10-22 19:31:49

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#9 2018-10-23 01:36:53

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#10 2018-10-23 07:48:47

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#11 2018-10-23 10:19:24

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#12 2018-10-31 20:24:21

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#13 2018-11-01 03:15:02

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#14 2018-11-01 20:09:59

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#15 2018-11-02 19:09:05

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#16 2020-05-14 19:51:08

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#17 2020-11-09 10:41:10

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#18 2020-11-09 13:09:07

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#19 2020-11-09 18:36:50

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#20 2020-11-09 18:59:11

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#21 2022-10-25 19:31:55

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#22 2023-02-22 08:30:46

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#23 2023-03-30 12:40:00

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

#24 2024-06-13 07:57:49

Re: Hyperloop, Earth/Mars

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