New Mars Forums

dicktice

Member

From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Registered: 2002-11-01

Posts: 1,764

Re: slavery - why does it still exist?

Cindy:
Re. If everyone of the poor you hypothesize were spacetravel inventors, yes we would be on Mars, because that's where they spent all the money had.
Re. Wealth produces wealth--sure, because the rich have time to finagle and money to hire lawyers to help them avoid paying income, etc. taxes.
  Relative little money, and lotsa' inventive love'll get us to Mars soonest ... by "us" I mean the ones who land on Mars, as well as the rest of us, naturally, who watch entranced....

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: slavery - why does it still exist?

Thanks everybody for the well-reasoned and very understandable responses to the 'Herman Kahn' recipe for economic advancement. (Thanks in particular to Cindy for seeing Herman's side of the argument and defending it while I slept! )

    I never really expected much support for this idea because (a) it is a broad and simplistic argument, as Clark pointed out, and (b) it flies so starkly in the face of the political persuasion of many of our friends here at New Mars!
    This idea is really capitalism taken to extremes by giving it full rein to create wealth. It's total anathema to the followers of International Socialism.

    Just by way of clarification, though, I don't think Herman's idea was to eliminate the middle classes. My impression at the time was that the full spectrum of economic levels would be represented between the richest and the poorest. And I assume full social mobility - up and down - would be an accepted corollary of the system since it's based on a free market.
    Just before half the people here start jumping up and down yelling about how unscrupulous 'rich folks' (akin to lepers in many minds! ) will be the only ones with any freedom while the rest of us are condemned to wage slavery, I freely admit that such tremendous freedoms in the market would have to be balanced by correspondingly strict and strongly-enforced codes of behaviour.

    I know many of you will be thinking that such a system would create opportunities for corruption on a huge scale. I have to agree with you. But there is no political system, past or present, that isn't corrupt to its core - that, unfortunately, is the nature of human affairs.
    Control of the worst elements of human nature in Herman Kahn's system will be as imperfect as it is in any system, but the advantages of encouraging wealth creation without limit would include the eventual elimination of the worst elements of grinding poverty - hunger and disease.

    I never meant to imply, by the way, that greed is a good thing. But it is one of the demons which humanity has never managed to banish. If we can't get rid of it, why not harness it and get the most out of it?

    We know socialism doesn't work. Capitalism does work but has numerous flaws which need to be addressed on a day to day basis to prevent unacceptable excesses. That's O.K. We know nothing's perfect. But controlled capitalism just happens to be our best shot at prosperity.

    I don't advocate corruption. Hell!! I'm an Aussie for God's sake - our national motto is "a fair go, mate"!!!   
    When I finally become dictator of the world, it'll be prosperity, freedom, colonies on Mars, a fair go for everybody ... oh, and free beer for the first week!!   

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: slavery - why does it still exist?

I don't advocate corruption. Hell!! I'm an Aussie for God's sake - our national motto is "a fair go, mate"!!!   
    When I finally become dictator of the world, it'll be prosperity, freedom, colonies on Mars, a fair go for everybody ... oh, and free beer for the first week!!   

*I don't like beer.  Can I have free strawberry daquiri's for a week?   :laugh:

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: slavery - why does it still exist?

Cindy writes:-

I don't like beer. Can I have free strawberry daquiris for a week?  :laugh:

    Yes ma'am ... as many as you like!! And may you drink them in the best of good health!
                                   

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

dicktice

Member

From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Registered: 2002-11-01

Posts: 1,764

Re: slavery - why does it still exist?

Greed Power--yea!

George H

Member

From: canada

Registered: 2002-10-31

Posts: 53

Re: slavery - why does it still exist?

Greed Power--yea!

Well, they're like lust, always gonna be around. We just have to deal with, learn how to cope with them. Maybe we should put down lust too, hey yeah! Population control right?