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#76 2016-08-31 21:14:49

Void
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Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Interesting about what that comet did.
I am happy that human understanding may be getting to a diagnosis of what is real about Mars in the regard to atmospheric losses.

I should think that if there were to be a solar civilization, then the investment in Mars will be worth it, as it's value should go up and up, as such a civilization progresses.

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#77 2016-09-12 20:15:34

Void
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

http://www.space.com/34040-interstellar … phere.html

Thought you might be interested in this, in relation to the topic.

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#78 2017-10-23 20:37:03

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 11,375

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Solar Wind Creates Electric Charge on Martian Moon Phobos

A new NASA study shows that solar wind — the stream of electrically charged particles that the sun blows out into space — creates a complex electrical environment on Phobos, which could possibly affect astronauts and any scientific equipment brought to the irregularly shaped moon in future missions.

the flow of the solar wind around Phobos, revealing that the buildup of static charge on the nightside and in shadowed regions can reach 10,000 volts in some materials, such as the Teflon

I am wondering if we can harness the charge that is built up on the moons of mars via the solar winds...it just might give us a way to create a belt around the planet to ward of the lose rate of mars atmosphere by circling the planet at the moons distance with nuclear power rf transmitters such that a field is slowly built up.

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#79 2017-10-24 01:31:07

louis
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

I would have thought the quickest approach was to use solar power satellites. The Earth now has orbiting over 2000 satellites and tens of thousands of smaller objects.   

I would have thought that using solar power we could use a network of smaller satellites to generate an electro magnetic sphere around Mars. Of course the amount of energy required to create an Earth-like magnetosphere would be way beyond our capability...but I am presuming the amount of energy required simply to construct a very thin non-pervasive magnetosphere would be far, far less  and potentially doable with solar powered satellites.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#80 2017-10-24 17:15:32

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

The satelite question is one of stationary or fast orbit as the field would want to move with the rotation of them and the planet to help with the setting up of the field.

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#81 2017-11-27 00:10:14

Lake Matthew Team - Cole
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

We've performed initial modeling of a local artificial geomagnetic field, scaled for a crewed facility on Mars.  The field covers a crater 9 km in diameter and blocks cosmic ray protons to 1 GeV.  Power requirement is under 80 kW.

This is the "Omaha Field", one component of the greater "Omaha Shield" proposal.

See:  Omaha Shield: radiation protection systems for Unlimited Mars Career

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#82 2017-11-27 01:55:52

louis
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

That's brilliant! smile  Presumably if you can do it over a large 9 Km diameter area, you could do something proportional over a much smaller early base.

Lake Matthew Team - Cole wrote:

We've performed initial modeling of a local artificial geomagnetic field, scaled for a crewed facility on Mars.  The field covers a crater 9 km in diameter and blocks cosmic ray protons to 1 GeV.  Power requirement is under 80 kW.

This is the "Omaha Field", one component of the greater "Omaha Shield" proposal.

See:  Omaha Shield: radiation protection systems for Unlimited Mars Career


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#83 2017-11-27 10:49:38

Lake Matthew Team - Cole
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

louis wrote:

That's brilliant! smile  Presumably if you can do it over a large 9 Km diameter area, you could do something proportional over a much smaller early base.

Lake Matthew Team - Cole wrote:

We've performed initial modeling of a local artificial geomagnetic field, scaled for a crewed facility on Mars.  The field covers a crater 9 km in diameter and blocks cosmic ray protons to 1 GeV.  Power requirement is under 80 kW.

This is the "Omaha Field", one component of the greater "Omaha Shield" proposal.

See:  Omaha Shield: radiation protection systems for Unlimited Mars Career

Sure, you could.  You'd change horizontal scale by adjusting cable length.  The critical dimension is vertical; i.e., vertical spacing between cables.  1.5 km gives shielding to 1 GeV, and shielding drops ~100 MeV per each 100 m cut in spacing.

Last edited by Lake Matthew Team - Cole (2017-11-27 10:50:13)

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#84 2017-11-27 18:41:45

SpaceNut
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

I see you have found one of the old topics on the subject of megosphere creation, that said I have added the others in my post in your new topic.
Also links to superconducting power cables.
Will continue there....

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#85 2018-01-11 22:11:23

Void
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

This article has me quite confused.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 140513.htm

Mars' atmosphere well protected from the solar wind

If it is true, it is another strike against those who say that planets around red dwarf stars would loose their atmospheres quickly.

I have had concerns about that assertion for some time, since Venus has an atmosphere many times thicker than the Earths, but does not have an appreciable magnetic field where it counts, just an induced magnetic field in its ionosphere.

Something is bogus about the notions we are given about of how a planet retains atmosphere.

Last edited by Void (2018-01-11 22:21:42)

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#86 2018-02-04 16:43:48

Dao Angkan
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Registered: 2017-08-23
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Because Mars is 1.5AU from the sun, it doesn't suffer from atmospheric thermal loss (Jeans escape), but it still suffers from solar winds stripping the atmosphere. This form of atmospheric loss increases the closer the planet is to the star, and how active that star is. The habitable zone is extremely close to Red Dwarf stars, and red dwarf stars are extremely active early on. The closer a planet is to it's star, the more likely it is to be tidally locked, which also means that it is less likely to have the rotation necessary to maintain a significant dynamo in it's core to keep a magnetic field.

M stars are the most common, and live for a ridiculous amount of time, unfortunately, it seems that they're not very friendly to planets in their habitable zones. G stars are reasonably friendly, but have a limited lifespan. For example, Earth has been around for ~4.5Gya years, it took the first 0.5-1Gya until the planet was habitable, then 3-3.5Gya until complex life formed, then 0.5Gya from complex life (worms) forming to intelligence forming (us), and we now have less than 1Gya until the Earth is no longer habitable. It's a relatively small window for intelligent life to form under a G type star.

However, between M type and G type stars we have K type stars, more friendly than M type, and more common and longer lived (longer than the current age of the universe) than G type stars. This would be my target star for exoplanet atmosphere biomarkers.

Edit: Venus is massive enough to retain it's atmosphere even at Mercury distance from the sun, as is Earth. A magnetic field can only help less massive worlds (Mars has only 10% of Earth mass) retain their atmosphere when they are cold enough. Don't forget that Mars still has an atmosphere, yes much has been stripped after billions of years, but it still retains enough of an atmosphere for liquid water to be possible at it's lowest elevations on summer days.

Last edited by Dao Angkan (2018-02-04 17:01:52)

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#87 2018-02-04 17:54:31

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 11,375

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Was thinking about this topic as the field height above the planets could be extended via the use of a balloon platform with solar panels on the top with a field generator with in its structure. So long as it stays afloat we then can make more of these to interlock the fields at altitude in order to strengthen it. As we add more atmospherwe will be able to have the balloon float higher and higher to make the field better plus as we get higher add in more balloons.

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#88 2018-02-04 18:06:15

Dao Angkan
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Registered: 2017-08-23
Posts: 9

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

We really don't need to worry about a magnetic field for Mars. If we give Mars an atmosphere it will last for hundreds of millions of years (the Earth won't even be habitable in much longer than that).

Still, if you must, then you can wrap super-conducting cables around the planet and create a magnetic field that way, there's really no need to spend the effort on raising it up above the surface (that's the magic of magnetism after all).

http://www.nifs.ac.jp/report/NIFS-886.pdf

Last edited by Dao Angkan (2018-02-04 18:13:22)

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#89 2018-02-04 20:48:18

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 11,375

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Thanks for the link on superconducting cables and as such the primary need for energy needs to go to surviving the conditions of mars first but once we have reactors to power the superconductor and power to provide to the cooling system sure but what about until then as these will not be in the giga watt size sent from earth as we will barely be able to send the kilowatt units....oh and these speacially made cabes will be a long ways off as well...

Moon thought to play major role in maintaining Earth’s magnetic field

The Earth continuously receives 3,700 billion watts of power through the transfer of the gravitational and rotational energy of the Earth-Moon-Sun system, and over 1,000 billion watts is thought to be available to bring about this type of motion in the outer core.

Part of the link was to counteract the poles flipping....

Earth’s magnetic poles may be poised to flip

The last full reversal, the Brunhes-Matuyama, occurred around 780,000 years ago. A temporary reversal, the Laschamp event, occurred around 41,000 years ago. It lasted less than 1,000 years with the actual change of polarity lasting around 250 years.

comparison1_strip.gif?itok=BgHK_g5N

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#90 2018-03-09 17:04:13

IanM
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 214

Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

Could anyone provide me a schematic/diagram for Lake Matthew Team's Omaha Field proposal, or a link to it? I've seen its claimed power requirements and energy-blocking capacity, but I'd like to be able to see a diagram of its circuitry and power sources if possible. Thanks!


The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever. -Paraphrased from Tsiolkovsky

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#91 2018-04-23 23:11:11

Lake Matthew Team - Cole
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Registered: 2016-12-21
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Re: Magnetizing Mars - Creation of a Martian Magnetosphere

IanM wrote:

Could anyone provide me a schematic/diagram for Lake Matthew Team's Omaha Field proposal, or a link to it? I've seen its claimed power requirements and energy-blocking capacity, but I'd like to be able to see a diagram of its circuitry and power sources if possible. Thanks!

The basic Omaha Field figures are given in the Mars Home Planet submission.  Note the use of straight cables, solenoids, and mixed cables in construction of the protective field.

Also the Omaha Field proposal is integrated into a greater Omaha Shield concept, described in a Nov. 16 2017 press release.

Bronze_votive_shield_icon.jpg

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