New Mars Forums

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

Another game changer is that some one has been working on a human transport rover for mars....sure is not what some have envisioned...There's off-roading, and then there's off-roading on Mars.

This Futuristic Mars Rover Looks Like an Awesome NASA Tank

This sleek, black, monster of a Mars rover is a concept design of a vehicle that might one day transport astronauts across the Red Planet. To me, it looks like "The Martian" met a tank with a "Knight Rider" obsession and spawned a Mars car that runs on awesome.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-mar … dek-2017-5

The concept rover was designed by Marc Parker of Parker Brothers Concepts. It's 23 feet long (7 meters), 13 feet wide (4 m), 11 feet tall (3.3 m) and weighs an estimated 5,000 lbs. (2,268 kilograms).

The track tires are a combination design with moving plates to compensate for the banging that the rovers have seen by rolling against sharp rocks....

elderflower

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Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Mars Cart

Why such a complex shape?

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

The front nose I assume is to allow as much visability of the driver and passenger to see what is near the rover. The remaining crew would be seated just behind the pair as you would normally be seated.

The wheels are to be able to obsorb the pounding that we would see as humans would be driving and possibly not so slow as the nasa rovers crawl at.

The heaviest part of the rover is in the rear as it carries the water, food, oxygen, batteries and the equipment means to make it all work.

I see 2 solar panels on the side but I also would assume that there is another pair on the opposite side with probably more on the flat roof of the crew carrier, to which its possible that 8 is the final count of these solar panels for power for the vehicle, since its an all electric vehicle.

From one view it appears that a drop gate to serve as a ramp for the crew to exit is also doubling as the air lock door.

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,854

Re: Mars Cart

That truck looks like a roll-over waiting to happen if anyone attempts to drive it at appreciable speed over rough terrain.  The CG height will be above where the Type 60's roof ends.  Given its size and weight of only 2.6t, it can't be a very sturdy truck, either.  I wonder about the ultimate durability of the wheels, but I'll withhold judgement until testing is complete because stranger things have worked.  The truck will still exert more ground pressure than a tracked vehicle twice as heavy.  I don't think this truck will perform very well over sand or loose rock, especially if it's on an incline.  Trying to save that much weight on a vehicle that pretty much requires its own transport to Mars as a function of physical size is penny-wise, pound foolish.

The Type 60 is less than 4 feet high, about 7 and a half feet wide, and 14 feet long.  You could stack two of them in the payload fairing of a Falcon Heavy.  They won't look nearly as cool as that truck does, but ultimate durability, general utility, and payload capacity are the qualities that actually matter.  It's a very futuristic looking truck, but not practical for years of off-road use on another planet with rugged terrain.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

The few views I can see appear to have independant suspension for each wheel and since the mass of the vehicles is between the wheels I so no problems with normal use but if we are stupid sure it will roll....but so will any vehicle under that condition that changes mass direction....

kbd512

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Posts: 7,854

Re: Mars Cart

SpaceNut,

It's easier not to fight physics.  If you hold a weight close to your body, it's easier to control it than when the weight is held in an outstretched arm.  Mechanical advantage applies to man and machine alike.

The question I would like answered is "Why are you trying to fight with something that need not be fought with?"

What substantial benefit(s) does maintaining a CG height five feet in the air confer to this smallish monster truck?  It's not a question of whether or not we can do it.  We've already answered that question.  We've done it.  Now I want to know what capabilities were worth what is otherwise needless complexity, because "it looks cool" is not a beneficial automotive engineering feature.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

I take it that you would perfer something more like this vehicle:

The monster truck vehicles do just fine climbing over rocks that other wise would crack the bottom plate of a vehicle that is close to the ground.

But then again this is all that loius would want:

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,854

Re: Mars Cart

SpaceNut,

To begin with, don't smack any pressurized vehicles into rocks.  Those of us who enjoy watching rock climbers have seen more than a few of them tumble and break axles.  Rock climbing is just not something you would do in any pressurized vehicle if you were concerned about your own survival.  I don't think rocks will crack half inch thick Titanium alloy plate, either, at least not at 25kph.  If you want to go faster, then you need a seriously durable vehicle and the 2,200kg truck shown above ain't it.  If you already know that 100% of usage will be off-road and you want to transport cargo, then select the right vehicle for that task.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

It would seem that Nasa is still intent on the moon being the start to the gateway to mars and beyond. So while its a start out of LEO we can make the best of it for trials of gear for mars on the moon. Test driving a mars vehicle on the moon would not be a distraction but the means to get funding for what we would want to see on Mars.
The dark rover from hollywood would need to be colored something other than black as any crew would bake inside it. The cooling and heat exchangers would be put to the test. Power systems could be tested out as well for what it takes to survive and so much more.....

Rover content
Hard Suits/Hard Shells: Recent Developments in 3D-Printed Hard Suits and Single-Person Space Utility Vehicles

kbd512

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Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,854

Re: Mars Cart

Exoskeleton systems are just about to the point where they're feasible from a mass and power consumption standpoint.  Add wheels and maybe a jet pack and you then become a "transformer" (except you're really a "human in disguise").

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

nah just borrow the one's from the movie set....

cowUnwink

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From: USA

Registered: 2017-10-20

Posts: 1

Re: Mars Cart

If you transported Mars or Moon rocks and soils back to Earth and placed them on a table, would Joe Average be able to identify that they are from a different planet?

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

Nah average joe will not care until he knows its value

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

Its been a while since we talked about a rover for mars use. While I am an earth bound driver hooked on gas that has not stopped me from searching out electric vehicle design for the do it yourselfer. When you are poor you look for leverage to a problem; going all electric for daily comutes to work of coursa once you have the vehicle does save. Applying that knowledge bring you to many web sites from convert a kits to learning about the nuts and bolts of the how to do....

Coverting a VW beatle to electric only.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

http://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/hy … icles.html

elderflower

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Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Mars Cart

That's an old style Beetle. You should be aware before you invest a lot of money and effort into one, that they predate modern crash testing and will not provide much protection for the occupants.

GW Johnson

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From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,800

Website

Re: Mars Cart

I know the old beetle very well,  I drove one for 30 years.  Primitive car,  but actually quite useful.  Mine was a 1960 model,  with a 36 HP engine. Deadly in a crash,  so it behooved one to learn how to get out of the way.  I still have that car out here on the farm,  in deep preservation.  Easier to repair and overhaul than any modern car. 

One of these (a 1957 model) was used in Antarctica during the 1957-1958 International Geophysical Year expedition.  It would run when (and where) the diesel-engined track-laying Snow Cats would not.  But this required kerosene for the engine crankcase lube,  and engine oil thinned with kerosene for the gear oil in the transmission.  Being gasoline-fueled,  there were no problems with fuel gelling,  even at -100 F.  Little red beetle;  the staff loved it. 

GW

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

You can take the sensible route and grab something conventional like a Ford F-150 Raptor or a Polaris RZR side-by-side. Or you can do it proper with the new Ripsaw EV3-F1 Is a Hellcat-Powered, 1,500-HP Personal Off-Road Tank

wadewilson

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Registered: 2018-02-06

Posts: 2

Re: Mars Cart

it looks like a tank without barrel

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

Something for designing:

elderflower

Member

Registered: 2016-06-19

Posts: 1,262

Re: Mars Cart

Since Mr Musk has kindly lifted the mass we can send to Mars in one shot, maybe we should be looking at developing something derived from the Haglunds bv206 for Mars surface transport. This should handle almost anything it is likely to meet so long as nobody drives it up or down a cliff.
These were first developed for the Swedish army and now used for many different purposes.
http://www.bv206.co.uk/index.php/models … l-carriers.
A couple of these, equipped with a variety of rear modules would be great.

SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

A good primer on BRUSHLESS DC MOTOR FUNDAMENTALS
Being able to repair a motor on a rover will be a required skill to know how a design works.
Permanent magnets I think will also be one of the insitu abilities early on so making a generator with them will mean we can turn at low rpm a shaft to make power form heat sources solar or from others.
Permanent Magnet Synchronous Generator yes its for windmill use but its adaptable for other means of a shaft that turns.

Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,818

Re: Mars Cart

I used to be a shop electrician a very long time ago.  Electric Motors.

......
Handle Robot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c

Well, here I come again.
I would like a potentially highly intelligent self driving mule on Mars.  In fact a pack of them.
A modification of "Handle" will do I think.

Mars often being rocky, a two wheeled robotic cart might be able to avoid getting as much wheel damage as a four wheeled cart.
In fact it appears in the demonstration that it can tilt much of it's weight to one wheel, which would then allow the other wheel to skid over a rock with less stressing.

Handle should be able to backpack supplies for an EVA.  In fact I believe it should be able to carry human in a spacesuit, and have umbilicals to reduce consumption of consumables in the spacesuit itself.
And I mentioned packs of them, so there would potentially be large capacity to backpack supplies, and also redundancy.
A handle robot may be able to help repair a spacesuit for an unconscious person or disabled person.
The handle robot in some ways resembles a ricksha cart from Asia.

For some time I have been considering the ricksha for space duty, and to help some types of disabled people on Earth.

As it is also a "Balance Beam", it is possible to reduce the load on a persons legs to zero, as in them being carried to a worksite, or being rescued, it may also be possible to impose exercise loads on a person who may be walking.

Here on Earth I have imagined it as a therapeutic device for people who cannot walk in Earth gravity.  Even Steven Hawkings might like to "Stand" in such a device and travel about, instead of a wheel chair sometimes.

And one more thing is that since you can reduce the load on at least legs or maybe with proper design most of the body, you can test humans under a 1/6 gee load or a .38 gee load.

It is not going to be an exact simulation, since their body parts still exist in a 1 gee environment, but to a large degree I suspect that it could tell us about the rate of atrophy of the body under Lunar, Martian, Venus, and Mercury, ect. conditions.

Last edited by Void (2018-02-27 14:51:21)

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Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,818

Re: Mars Cart

For Lunar, Mars, Ect. simulations, I suggest the use of gym and sports stadiums when they are not being used for their normal purposes.  Also the ability to go outside for trips.

Bedtime would be fairly normal, I suppose, just go to bed as you already do on Earth.  But other than special events such as bathtime. being hooked into the "Ricksha", with the appropriate amount of gravitational force dialed off.

Such people could probably do some real work while hooked up.

Last edited by Void (2018-02-27 17:32:22)

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SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Mars Cart

This is how one might make a motor or generator from insitu materials 45Kw DC Brushless motor construction