Politics

SpaceNut · 2017-10-05 18:42:11

I hope that as many of you will read this very long article but its worth the read as it put the truth to words that are being distorted by others....
A landscaper's 'hire American' plan ended with bringing in Mexican workers to finish the job

visa program for seasonal workers, called H-2B visas was done away with and this is the problem now that businesses can not find people to work. Congress has reduced the number of available visas by nearly 30 percent from 2016, and President Trump’s promise to limit legal as well as illegal immigration and protect American workers has kead to this issue of not having the employees to do the work.

SpaceNut · 2017-10-06 17:53:19

Undocumented Workers Are The Backbone Of Dairies. Will Trump Change That?

I was reminded today about these lyrics:

Immigration Man
Crosby & Nash
There I was at the immigration scene
Shining and feeling clean
Could it be a sin?
I got stopped by the immigration man
He says he doesn't know if he can.
Let me in,
Let me in, immigration man,
Can I cross the line and pray
I can stay another day
Let me in, immigration man
I won't toe your line today
I can't see it anyway. Hey hey
There he was with his immigration face
Giving me a paper chase
But the son was coming
Cause all at once he looked into my space
And stamped a number over my face
And it sent me running
Won't you let me in, immigration man
Can I cross the line and pray
I can stay another day
Won't you let me in, immigration man
I won't toe your line today
I can't see it anyway.
Here I am with my immigration form
It's big enough to keep me warm
When a cold wind's coming
So go where you will
As long as you think you can
You'd better watch out, watch out for the man
Anywhere you're going.
Come on and let me in, immigration man,
Can I cross the line and pray
Take your fingers from the tray.
Let me in, irritation man,
I won't toe your line today
I can't see it anyway

SpaceNut · 2017-10-08 17:07:30

Tesla And Puerto Rico Governor Agree On New Power Grid

Earlier this week, the Tesla founder said he believes Tesla could rebuild the country’s power grid with batteries and solar power, which would be far more sustainable. However, it would be a long-term effort opposed to a short-term remedy which is what the U.S territory needs at this point.
Musk asserted: “The Tesla team has [built solar grids] for many smaller islands around the world, but there is no scalability limit, so it can be done for Puerto Rico too. Such a decision would be in the hands of the PR govt, PUC, any commercial stakeholders and, most importantly, the people of PR.”
Tesla has done similar projects to provide power in Hawaii and American Samoa. However, Puerto Rico would be larger than the previous tasks.

This is a big deal for sure and one that will show the way to space as well....

kbd512 · 2017-10-09 12:27:26

If this new PV farm is destroyed by the next hurricane in another 10 years like the last one was, I guess the tax payers will have to eat the cost of that bad decision like all the rest of their bad decisions. The power is out in Puerto Rico because the power lines from the power plants were above ground and thus destroyed by hurricane force winds. Their diesel and natural gas power plants and generators still work as well as they ever did.

Anyone who wants to make an island dependent upon fragile solar panels and wind turbines for power is either pure evil or so inept as to be criminally negligent. Mr. Musk wants to help these Puerto Ricans over their next financial cliff by ensuring that their power plants are destroyed by the next major hurricane.

Here's some basic math for Puerto Ricans to consider:

above ground power lines + major hurricane = no more above ground power lines
photovoltaic panels + major hurricane = no more photovoltaic panels
wind turbine + major hurricane = no more wind turbines

When the force of the wind from a hurricane rips roofs right off of buildings like a tornado does, anything lighter than the roof, like solar panels, also gets torn down with the roof.

Here's what Puerto Rico's PV farm looked like after Hurricane Maria:

Photos | Hurricane hit Puerto Rico without power for weeks: Trump visits for survey

Look at Photo 10/11, which depicts the remnants of a PV farm on Puerto Rico.

Here's a link to what the PV farm in the US Virgin Islands looked like after Hurricane Maria:

US Virgin Islands in ruins from Hurricane Maria

Scroll down through the article and look at what a PV farm looks like after a major hurricane.

Can solar panels be made to withstand major storms? Absolutely. An airplane can also be made of steel and still fly if you put enough thrust behind it, but no airline in the world operates aircraft made from steel. There are engineering reasons why airplanes are made to be as light as is technically feasible while still taking flight loads without being deformed or destroyed. There's absolutely no engineering reason why solar panels can't be made to withstand bullets, except weight and cost. If weight and cost didn't matter, then we'd never see a hurricane or tornado rip the roof off a house. Look at the pictures from the articles I provided links to in order to see what happens in real life.

The amount of magical thinking, even from people with engineering degrees who should know better, is staggering. Let's throw some more good money after bad and still fail to fix the most obvious problems, which would be the above-ground power lines and roofing inadequate to withstand hurricane force winds.

RobertDyck · 2017-10-09 13:45:31

Hurricanes are occurring more frequently now. According to NOAA, total number of tropical storms has not increased, but the proportion that intensify to become hurricanes has.

I've point out global cooling from beginning of the industrial revolution of 1885 until 1970, then rapid global warming until year 2000. Based on reconstructed temperature from 1550 to 1855, and assuming that global temperature would have continued at that rate if humans hadn't messed with it, as of year 2000 the global temperature equalled what it would have been due to nature. At that point global warming dramatically slowed. Temperature of the lower stratosphere has been recorded from 1990 on: and it shows cooling from 1990 to 2010, then stabilized. My assertion is smoke and soot from coal burning blotted out the sun causing global cooling. Removing that pollution caused the natural temperature to be restored. Scientists point out that the temperature in 1994 was the same as before the industrial revolution of 1844. This means the amount of global warming during from 1994 to year 2000 was equal to what nature would have done from 1855 to year 2000; in other words 145 years of natural global warming condensed to 6 years. That makes it appear dramatic, but as of year 2000 the temperature was equal to what it would have been anyway. From year 2000 to late 2014, global warming was almost the pace of nature. It was so close to the pace of nature that you could say "good enough". In fact a few scientists published papers claiming global warming is over. But since late 2014, it appears to be back. But it takes 4 years of data, averaged, to get a clear measure of climate, so it's too early to say. Probably is back. So we have to do something, but we don't have to panic like the climate warriors claim.

My point is ocean surface water is now warming, while at the same time the lower stratosphere is colder. Hurricanes are a giant convection current from the ocean surface to the top of the troposphere where it touches the lower stratosphere. Warming the bottom while cooling the top at the same time? That means more hurricanes, and stronger hurricanes. Of course you could argue we probably had just as many hurricanes in the first half of the 1800s, before the industrial revolution caused global cooling. Was weather data collected back then? However, bottom line is we now have more hurricanes than the 1960s or '70s. Get used to it.

elderflower · 2017-10-09 13:54:56

I foresee a set of huge barges extracting heat from the ocean surface and dissipating it below the thermocline in some way. The delta T might be sufficient to run a Rankine cycle engine to generate power- probably only enough to provide the desired cooling service.

SpaceNut · 2017-10-13 16:57:53

From BFR discusion:

louis wrote:

As long he's building them in the USA, he will get the Trump stamp of approval I imagine, which is important.

Since Musk was on one of Trump's boards and left after issues of racism and such Musk will not care if he endorse the jobs or not....

elderflower · 2017-10-14 04:49:24

Well the USA would be one of the largest beneficiaries.
The cold water from below would need to be partially desalinated to ensure that it doesn't sink straight back down again.

GW Johnson · 2017-10-14 10:59:22

The original ocean thermal energy concepts were thermo-electric. A two-junction thermocouple, with one in the cold deep down and the other at the surface in the warm. This generates a voltage. Install enough of these, and you can connect them for usable current.

Instead, a long tubular buoy structure could contain a heat pipe to bring the cold and the warm physically closer together. At that point you install a heat engine to create electricity. The Carnot efficiency is quite low at about 7%, because the source and sink temperatures are not far apart. So this is only just competitive with well-known-to-be-inefficient thermoelectric.

The choice depends more upon convenience-of-construction and storm damage resistance, than upon anything intrinsic. The inefficiency is why nobody actually does this. It has been seriously proposed and rejected for at least half a century that I know of.

As for the electric grid in Puerto Rico, the best choice there is the same as the best choice here: wires on poles. Way lower capital cost to install, much faster and cheaper to repair once downed. It helps provide better storm damage resistance if you use shorter spans between the poles, but nobody yet has clued into that. Their problem in Puerto Rico is in part cultural as well as economic, going back centuries. It's that "manana" approach to life, which is a big part of what got them into trouble going bankrupt.

The power company on the island hadn't kept up with maintenance, which made wires-on-poles even more vulnerable to hurricane damage, plus their repair force is way-to-hell-and-gone too small to cope, given the whole island got swept-over by the storm and destroyed. Recent history says these events are becoming more frequent.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-10-14 11:12:13)

elderflower · 2017-10-14 15:37:38

Well western Britain and Ireland are about to get one.
This proposal wasn't really directed at exporting power. I would expect my barge to use all the power it generates and maybe some more, in running its own services and cooling the sea surface water below the hurricane threshold temperature (28 C I think), dumping the heat in the depths where it is only about 4C.

kbd512 · 2017-10-16 11:51:50

GW,

Wires and transformers on poles are what caused Houston to be without power for a month or three after Hurricane Ike. Many of the transformers and related power transfer equipment aren't simple commodities stored in warehouses somewhere. When they're needed, they're fabricated and shipped. Buried power lines are more difficult to maintain and cost more to install, but are not subject to wind damage and are less of a fire and electrocution risk. Space is at a premium on an island, repair parts have to be shipped in from elsewhere, and high winds from hurricanes are historically more of a problem than earthquakes, although they still have to contend with relatively powerful earthquakes from time to time. Puerto Ricans are in such dire living conditions because they don't have electrical power. Three months is too long for a major city like Houston or an island with as many people as Puerto Rico has to be without electrical power. In any event, the cycle of "cheaper is better" will continue and lives will continue to be lost.

SpaceNut · 2017-10-16 19:45:28

While I can not tell you of more than 12 days without power I can tell you that its not much fun in the cold of winter with no heating source after the ICE storms have knocked down power lines so at least they are warm.....

Trump voters in storm-ravaged county confront climate change

GW Johnson · 2017-10-17 11:54:56

What I have observed over my life is that the larger the organization, the more profit-driven selfish it operates. Bigger power companies seem not to stock very many standard components like transformers (compared to the size of their system), which is why when there is a big weather outage, they take longer to restore service, the excuse being "we had to have the parts manufactured".

What they really mean is they didn't want to pay the costs of maintaining the inventory needed to provide a more adequate service. The money trumps the ethical requirement to respond quickly. Depending upon how bad the weather disaster is, this can cost lives.

Even when it does, no one is held accountable, which is why this behavior persists. The "system" is rigged to favor the giants with the money. The money is rather openly considered to be more important than lives. The scope of this extends far beyond the electric power industry, so don't get wrong. It is a fairly general indictment of corporate-run America.

Out here in the boondocks, I am not on one of the giant utilities, I am on a regional co-op (the sort of thing that resulted from the New Deal's rural electrification of the 1930's). They are not only cheaper, they are more reliable, since they maintain an adequate inventory of commonly-replaced items like poles, wire, and transformers, compared to the size of their system.

Being smaller, and being legally set up to be more accountable to their customers (members of the co-op), the ethics inherently trumps the money. But, even so, they ARE still cheaper! So "business school ethics" isn't everything! Thank God for that!

No matter how bad the tornado was, co-op outages are usually corrected in under an hour, unlike the big utilities. That attests to the proportion of adequate inventory relative to system size. And don't kid yourself, tornadoes can knock down a lot of poles and wire at once.

There are things besides technical issues that cause most of the problems we see, in a lot of venues. Most of these can really be traced to money trumping ethics.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-10-17 12:06:02)

elderflower · 2017-10-17 15:40:39

"Shareholder value" ahead of customer value is not confined to American corporations, GW.

kbd512 · 2017-10-20 11:14:09

GW,

Companies don't carry the inventory required to replace the entire power distribution infrastructure of a city like Houston or an island like Puerto Rico. The objective of forecasting and operations planning is to minimize supply chain inventory and the associated waste that comes from carrying inventory that's never sold or used. Apart from benefits to shareholders in the form of dividends payed out from corporate profits, the other benefits include availability of the manufacturing plants to produce the products that their customers actually want at the moment they want them, stable employment for the company's employees, the ability to use corporate profits to expand operations and hire more people, and lower product cost to the customer.

The only way in which I've ever seen forecasting software used is to increase market share and to produce finished goods at a lower cost to the consumer. Apart from automation, computer-enabled supply chain optimizations done over the past two decades are the other reason why food, beverages, construction materials, medical products, vehicles, and raw materials used therein have become so affordable and thus available compared to what prices were in previous decades. Any company that can afford the people and software required to use statistical analysis to ensure that raw materials come in the front door the moment they're needed and that finished products go out the back door the moment the manufacturer promises to ship them will choose to do so.

Inventory sitting on a shelf collecting dust helps no one. There's enough inventory of disaster preparedness supplies (water, food, clothing, medicine, generators, vehicles, and replacement power distribution equipment) in a country the size of the US to simply move it to wherever it's needed. It won't arrive overnight because even our federal government is not organized enough to maintain a national register of consumables for disaster preparedness. That's probably something we should fix.

SpaceNut · 2017-10-20 20:40:42

The lack of communications from 1 power company to another with regards to what parts are collecting dust on there shelf is just the problem as one could sell the parts to the other to fix the issue of being the massive warehouse fill with them as its distributed across multiple locations. This is a lean approach to warehousing as the company just needs to have a database of what they have and a forum for communicating need. The company chosing to sell off its dusty items can chose when it needs to replentish if at all the item sold as we do change and upgrade the sytems to newer parts which might be more valuable to the company to have on the shelf instead.

GW Johnson · 2017-10-21 10:08:03

The things Kbd512 listed are all well-known business tools. These are employed to optimize the costs associated with inventory. Such an effort is partly misguided, because the inventory problem is less about optimization, and more about operating to an imposed constraint. That constraint is ethically driven, not economically-driven, so an economic analysis will inherently mislead, to one extent or another.

And I don't believe in risk models that multiply an event's cost by its probability, either. Some things cannot be tolerated, no matter how improbable they are. The event has to be rather frequent within your planning horizon, for that kind of model to be in the least appropriate.

Electric provider inventory isn't about being able to replace the entire system, it is about being able to expeditiously handle the most frequent problem you face. In the case of my local electric co-op, that is thunderstorm and tornado violence. Sure, those parts are gathering dust in the warehouse, until they get used. Every damned year. Multiple times a year.

Down around Houston, it is a toss-up as to what happens more frequently: thunderstorm/tornado or hurricane. In a large system like that, thunderstorm damage is more localized, but more frequent (multiple times a year). Hurricane damage is much more widespread (much of the entire provider grid), but somewhat less frequent (only every few years). The "right" inventory lies between those two extremes: enough to get started after a hurricane, but definitely enough to handle more than one thunderstorm event a year. Add in a deal with the equipment manufacturer to maintain some inventory at his end in return for not-the-rock-bottom price.

Puerto Rico is unique: the whole island is much smaller than the hurricane when it occurs every few years. The likelihood of widespread grid damage is even higher than Houston, plus getting replacement equipment is tougher, since ocean or air transport is necessary. It's tropical, so thunderstorm damage is also more frequent. A larger inventory and a larger maintenance crew really are called for.

But, that "manana" approach to life typical in Hispanic societies, for all its other nice aspects, does usually result in inadequate maintenance and poor management of an enterprise if it is large. That's just "typical", no specifics are alleged here. The Puerto Rico grid and electric company were already in a poor maintenance state when the two hurricanes hit and destroyed it a few days apart, a highly improbable event (unless climate change raises that frequency the way the climate scientists say it will).

There just weren't many people to do the repairs, little equipment to do it with, and no significant inventory of parts to use. Plus the crews were digging their own families out, before reporting for duty. I cannot fault them for that.

The generators in the power plants cannot be effectively restarted until there is a load for them to power. That means restoring the poles and wires comes first, which is what FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers is doing. It's a huge job in difficult mountainous, jungled territory, so I'm not surprised it's taking a long time. Getting started on that one a few days earlier wouldn't have made a lot of difference.

But distributing potable water to people stranded in primitive conditions is another matter. The response has been intense and dedicated, but has also been completely overwhelmed by the magnitude of the problem. Which is why so many Puerto Ricans are still drinking out of creeks a month after the storm. You fix that with a bigger, faster response, but the attitude out of the White House is effectively that "this is all the response we intend to afford".

And that's just about what I would expect from a narcissistic bully with the emotional maturity of an 8-year-old.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-10-21 10:15:42)

SpaceNut · 2017-10-21 16:46:40

I aplaud the efforts from these Former presidents raise $31 million for hurricane relief fund for hurricane relief from 80,000 donors.

The One America Appeal initiative, launched Sept. 7 in the wake of Hurricane Harvey in Florida, has distributed nearly $13 million to the Florida Disaster Fund, Rebuild Texas Fund, the Hurricane Harvey Relief Fund, Juntos y Unidos por Puerto Rico and the Fund for the Virgin Islands, according to a news release from former President George H. W. Bush's office. The project is being managed through the George H.W. Bush Presidential Library Foundation.
The fundraising figure comes ahead of a Saturday night concert One America Appeal is hosting at Texas A&M to raise money for hurricane victims. All five living former presidents -- Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H. W. Bush, and Jimmy Carter -- are expected to attend.
"With damage estimates from Hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria topping $300 billion and requiring months and years of rebuilding ahead, we hope this strong start to the One America Appeal is just that – a start," David Jones, CEO of the George H. W. Bush Presidential Library Foundation, said in a statement. "The former presidents want to thank each donor who, out of the goodness of their hearts, has given of themselves in such a selfless way to help their fellow Americans."
The five former presidents announced the initiative in an emotional video in September, in the wake of Hurricane Harvey's destruction in Texas. But since then, Hurricane Irma ravaged Florida, and Hurricane Maria destroyed much of Puerto Rico.

From the images there is alot of work to do for the islanders....

45 slides

The island became a territory 118 years ago, and Congress established local self- government in 1952, so why not be a state? Without voting representation in Congress or electoral votes for the presidency, Puerto Rico had no voice in those changes.Why Washington should finally make Puerto Rico a state, As the hurricanes have made clear, all of America has a stake in the island's success.

Weeks after Hurricane Maria struck Puerto Rico, the island remains in crisis. Eighty three percent of people in Puerto Rico don’t have power and thirty five percent don’t have access to clean water. The death toll currently stands at 48 but is likely to keep rising in the coming weeks.
Washington has responded to this crisis with billions in immediate disaster assistance, helping the cash-strapped island afford its basic expenses after tax revenue has all but dried up. This financial commitment isn’t going to end anytime soon: Experts suggest the final cost could exceed $100 billion.
As long as Puerto Rico remains vulnerable, the U.S.—and American taxpayers—will ultimately be on the hook when the next storm inevitably strikes. An economically strong Puerto Rico is thus critical to the mainland United States.

kbd512 · 2017-10-30 13:16:00

Antius,

Anything that supports communism is acceptable to the Democrats. Communists can tell any lie and do any deed, as long as it supports their party, especially when the existing government is fundamentally corrupt. On the other hand, our Justice Department holds conservatives to a higher standards. This nonsense will continue until the US returns to constitutional governance and implements common sense laws about where money can come from in campaigns. Anyone who isn't a US citizen shouldn't be permitted to donate a dollar to electing any US politician, directly or indirectly.

When former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is indicted for theft of classified information we'll know that the US government has turned a page in our rejection of criminality.

RobertDyck · 2017-10-30 14:57:44

kbd512 wrote:

When former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is indicted for theft of classified information we'll know that the US government has turned a page in our rejection of criminality.

You realize this partisan bullshit. Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has a private email server. I read that one general did. And based on the partisan attacks, exactly those demanding access are the individuals who cannot be trusted. It was set up for a reason, those demanding access are the security risk. If they got said information, they would be the security breach.

I am not a Hillary supporter; I could post many criticisms of her. However, you keep obsessing over talking points of partisan attacks. The fact you raised this demonstrates a lack of judgment.

SpaceNut · 2017-10-30 19:46:08

Sorry gang to be short as I have only 15 minutes on this laptop to post what is happening, I am sort of playing out NH version of power outage that was caused power by some heavy rain and wind. Now into day 2 with just this morning over 200,000 without in the state. Still over 20% in just my town...

GW Johnson · 2017-11-04 14:14:45

Spacenut:

You seem to be yourself again. The power outage must be over. I hope everything is OK.

GW

SpaceNut · 2017-11-04 19:51:00

Ya three days was enough without power, I can not imagine what those in huricane damage area are going through still with no power in sight... If you are along its much easier to find other ways to do without but when others are depending on you those ways just will not due....It is said that we may see more of this in the coming days and hope that we are not hit again as some of the area still are without power.

GW Johnson · 2017-11-05 11:34:47

Near as I can tell, more than half the island is still without power. There's some kind of scandal about an undersized grid repair contractor being selected noncompetitively, and sent there. They're now off the job. But reporting on how bad this is, or who really did this, is poor.

I know the Army Corps of Engineers is down there doing something, but obviously not at a scale to be effective. Reporting about that is poor as well.

All in all, the situation smacks of real incompetence somewhere. Just not sure where.

GW

SpaceNut · 2017-11-05 16:34:57

Puerto Rico still mostly without electricity

Six weeks after Hurricane Maria, the head of the Army Corps of Engineers predicts another two to three months before most Puerto Ricans have power restored. Some Puerto Ricans living at the very ends of the electric grid may wait until spring or summer before they get their power back, warns Semonite. "The last mile is going to take a long, long time… probably 62,000 power poles that have to be brought in from the United States, that have to be shipped here over water… and then you're going to run 6,100 miles of cable," he tells Kroft. "The science and the engineering and the logistics to be able to make that happen is just going to take some time," says the general.
"We're going to push like heck," says Semonite, "I think the majority of people will hope to have their power up in January, maybe February. I would predict there's some people on that last mile that are going to be close to spring or summer before they get those very, very last houses," he says.

Much like the goverment purchases the oil reserve for later it seems that that same principle for materials for electrical, huricane and flood damages sure seems to need a cache somewhere for these emergencies that we are being faced with so while its a bad thing to report on these there needs to be put into perspective as to whom should be doing what.

I know that Musk is down there are well doing his best to make a difference as well with his solar power brick units but that going to be for the high density population areas first and its the remote parts that are suffering the most. But the populations of the Island need to come to grips with the facts that energy in any form is not free and that we all need to work towards the means to become more self sufficient when we are poor.
While I am probably considered rich when compared to those living on minimum wage it is my family attributes that make it such that I am always looking for the best ways to save and to make every dollar work twice.

Why Some in Puerto Rico Are Banking on a Solar Solution

Puerto Rico's second-largest solar farm provided about 40 percent of this island's renewable energy, but it took a direct hit from Maria, the category 4 hurricane that sliced through southeast Puerto Rico. More than six weeks later, thousands of panels are still strewn across a massive field right next to the freeway. Forty-six days after the storm, Puerto Rico's embattled utility company is reporting only about 40 percent power generation. The agency reports that in 2016, 47 percent of Puerto Rico's electricity came from petroleum, 34 percent from natural gas, 17 percent from coal and 2 percent from renewable energy.

171105-puerto-rico-shattered-field-208p_8660f26d5a390034644511f57fbce208.nbcnews-ux-600-480.jpg

Sure looks bad but that means that more work can be done to protect them.

As the hospital struggled to keep its backup generators running, it got the call and Tesla built more than 700 solar panels in the hospital's parking lot.

Shifting gears I am saddened to hear of another hate crime with a gun man that has blanketed a church in Texas with a hail of rapid fired bullets killing as many age 28 and just as many injured as well in Sutherland Springs, which is 30 miles (48 kilometers) southeast of San Antonio.. With Gunman dead....Texas governor calls church shooting 'evil act'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/deadly-mass- … 42205.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/several-peop … 59978.html

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