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#1026 2017-09-07 15:45:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

I think that you will find no disagreement from the commentors in this topic with regards to "there should be a path to legal residency and that of citizenship" as well. The past schemes were incomplete for the process and its now in the hands of the legislative branch to do there job.

I just watched the evening news from a florida lowes selling off a surprise shipment of generators in which a woman needed to get 1 for a backup for oxygen generation for a family member. A man barely able to speak english gave the one he had up to this woman and gave big hugs as this woman told reports that she did not know him and was so proud of his generosity to give his up.

This is the America that I know and the dreams that each have of prosperity in this great country.

AArviaG.img?h=351&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

Pam Brekke drove 30 miles to a Lowe's in Orlando to buy a generator for her father, who is on oxygen and cannot be without power during the coming storm.

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#1027 2017-09-07 19:10:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

I hope this ruling will help kbd512 get the rest of his family here and reunited with them.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Thursday rejected the Trump administration's limited view of who is allowed into the country under its revised travel ban.

A three-judge panel decided that grandparents, cousins and similarly close extended family relationships of people in the U.S. shouldn't be prevented from coming to the country. The court also said refugees already accepted by a resettlement agency shouldn't be banned. The appeals court decision upholds a decision from a district court judge in Hawaii, who said the administration's view was too narrow.

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#1028 2017-09-07 19:19:41

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Social media proved its value in a huricane rescue efforts but it was not so good when it came to politics as it was used to spread lies....
Facebook disclosure of Russian ads may be "tip of the iceberg," says Sen. Mark Warner

The top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee wants to know more about Facebook and Twitter ads apparently bought by phony Russian accounts during the 2016 presidential campaign.
The American people deserve to know both the content and the source of information that is being used to try to affect their votes

Facebook has "not closed the book" on Russian-linked internet troll investigation

Facebook said it has shut down the fake accounts that were still active.

edit::
"Collusion network" Facebook flaw leads to millions of fake "likes"

The researchers, from the University of Iowa and Lahore University of Management Science in Pakistan, found dozens of sites that operate so-called collusion networks, which rapidly generate users' likes for free.

Facebook posts that rapidly receive a lot of likes are more likely to be placed higher in other people's feeds, meaning users buoyed by fake likes can ultimately generate significantly more real attention and influence.

In order to participate, users have to grant the networks wide-ranging access to their accounts, so that those accounts can be harnessed to like others.

The networks exploit code known as OAuth, which allows third-party applications such as Spotify, iMovie and the Playstation Network to access users' Facebook accounts from anywhere between a few hours to even months at a time.

Researchers warn the exploit can be used for darker purposes than just gathering extra likes.

"In addition to reputation manipulation, attackers can launch other serious attacks using leaked access tokens. For example, attackers can steal personal information of collusion network members as well as exploit their social graph to propagate malware," they write in their forthcoming paper.

Most people make use of there cell phones for this operating on an OS that is Android.....so probably more than likes are going on...

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#1029 2017-09-08 16:56:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

The heat is beginning to produce more than smoke as Mueller gives White House names of 6 aides he expects to question in Russia probe who were witnesses to several episodes, relevant to the investigation of Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election.

Mueller’s interest in the aides, including trusted adviser Hope Hicks, former press secretary Sean Spicer and former chief of staff Reince Priebus, reflects how the probe that has dogged Trump’s presidency is starting to penetrate a closer circle of aides around the president.

Trump and the Democrats brokered a deal to provide a rise to the debt ceiling and funds for the huricane recovery that would have them looking agian in 3 months time at the budget again. The gop feel slighted by Trump doing this.
Hisses, booing as Trump officials sell debt deal to GOP
The House backed the massive package on a 316-90 vote and sent it to Trump for his signature. All 90 votes in opposition came from Republicans. These GOP lawmakers voted against Harvey aid, debt limit extension

Four Texas Republicans on Friday voted against the bill that included aid for Hurricane Harvey recovery in their state, along with a debt limit extension. The "no" votes came from members of the Texas delegation, and from members of the Florida delegation who will soon likely have to grapple with the need for funding for Hurricane Irma. No Democrats in the House voted against the legislation. The Senate approved the legislation in an 80-17 vote on Thursday.

The four Texas Republicans who voted no were Rep. Joe Barton, Rep. Jeb Hensarling, Rep. Sam Johnson, and Rep. Mac Thornberry, none of whose districts are in the region hardest hit by the storm.

The Two Florida Republicans who voted against the legislation were Rep. Matt Gaetz and Rep. Ted Yoho.

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#1030 2017-09-08 17:05:12

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

While Mr. Trump tweeted that DACA recipients have "nothing to worry about" despite that his administration is phasing out the program and a series of talking points advised them to self-deport. The ICE let it be known that it was to drops plan for huge nationwide raid due to hurricanes. ICE had planned large immigration raids later this month, but it had changed its plans due to the current weather situation in Florida and other potentially impacted areas, along with the ongoing recovery in Texas. "The priority in the affected areas should remain focused on life-saving and life-sustaining activities." ICE went on to say that its "fugitive operation teams will continue to target and arrest criminal aliens ... who are in violation of our nation's immigration laws, in non-affected areas of the country, as part of routine operations.

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#1031 2017-09-09 03:39:47

Terraformer
Member
From: Atlantis
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,405
Website

Re: Politics

Why does it seem there is not much outrage over people, whose visas have expired, having to move back to their original country? Why should people who sneak across the border get more sympathy than them, rather than significantly less?


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#1032 2017-09-09 10:13:38

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 4,921
Website

Re: Politics

A Mars Society member from Canada, originally from my city, posted on Facebook that she recently bought a house in Melbourne Florida. I knew she got a job in the US, but forgot she moved to Florida. She's an aerospace engineer, doing engineering design work directly on small aircraft. She had been designing tooling for manufacturing equipment for interior components of large airliners. It's good to be working directly on aircraft. Janyce Wynter posted that her house is missing storm shutters, and she hasn't had time to "put that in order". Let's hope she's Ok. Hurricane Irene is now category 5 and larger than Andrew. It's stalled over Cuba as it's about to turn north toward Florida. NOAA expects the eye will move up the west cost of Florida, but it's so big it'll cover the Gulf and Atlantic coasts at the same time.

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#1033 2017-09-09 17:57:25

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 2,581
Website

Re: Politics

To answer Terraformer's question about undocumented aliens,  this traces to inaction by Congress since the end of WW2,  when the Bracero program ended,  with the mass deportation of Mexican agricultural workers. 

There are H1A visas for technical people,  and there are H2A and H2B visas for unskilled labor,  intended to be work permits for Mexican laborers.  These cover the laborers,  plus the dependents they bring with them.  H2A are migrant farm workers,  and H2B are all the other migrant worker trades,  such as "shitwork" at construction sites,  lawn care guys,  and toilet cleaners at motels. 

Because these are both low-paid,  and very hard and unpleasant work,  almost no Americans try to apply for such jobs.  The low pay is a vicious cycle:  because most of the workers are illegally here,  their employers extort a very low pay for them.  This is immoral and unethical,  but VERY widespread.  If these workers were legal,  pay would rise,  and some Americans might even apply for such jobs.

These workers are a huge factor in our economy:  around 15% of construction jobs,  and almost all the crop harvesters we have ever had. If you deport them all,  our economy not only crashes,  but you will go hungry because of high-priced foreign food imports.   Now that's the facts,  unpleasant though they are.

Why are these workers mostly illegal (and subject to extortion into wage slavery)?  Because the worker permit visa quotas are completely out-of-line with the "ground truth" of our economy,  something true and uncorrected by Congress since the end of WW2.  There are about 10 to 12 million illegal immigrant workers in the US,  depending upon whom you believe.  According to the Brookings Institute,  the cap on H2A and H2B visas totals to about 125-150,000.  That's a factor-of-100 out-of-balance with reality.

We brought this on ourselves;  more specifically,  our Congress did,  with over 7 decades inaction on this issue.  But we keep electing and re-electing the idiots that did this!

So,  stop re-electing them!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-09-09 18:01:53)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1034 2017-09-10 18:43:44

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

With all the racial hate and such I thought that a map from ancestry would be eye opening...

MapMigration1_c.jpg

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#1035 2017-09-11 19:22:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Director of the NSA, Admiral Mike Rogers, has admitted in a private town-hall-style meeting of NSA staffing that Donald Trump did, in fact, collude with the Russians. Months ago it was reported that there was a FISA surveillance warrant on Carter Page, dating back to at least the summer of 2016, which would have been right in the middle of the time he worked for the Donald Trump campaign.

The surveillance on Carter Page actually goes back much further than originally thought. It goes all the way back to 2014. This means that every word of Page’s remote communications with Donald Trump and the campaign have likely been recorded.

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#1036 2017-09-12 06:17:00

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,074

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

Some of us have been a little busy doing that "work that Americans won't do" (according to GW).  Maybe some of us just do work that regressive leftists won't do.  Apparently, that's anything that doesn't involve destroying your own community.  I may write software for a living during the day, but I have a bucket full of tools and my arms and legs aren't so broken that I can't get off my rear end to use them.

We've taken all the drywall out, pulled all the nails from the studs, stripped all the wood and laminate floors down to bare concrete, and set the materials in front yards for removal.  Apparently our government is in charge of the disposal effort, which would explain why it still hasn't been done yet.  The tile floors were generally undamaged, just so everyone knows what type of flooring material they should use to minimize maintenance and repair work in the event of flooding.

Since my wife's relatives were responsible homeowners, they purchased flood insurance.  FEMA hasn't paid their claims yet, but I understand why they've been overwhelmed as a result of the magnitude of the destruction and now we have a second disaster to clean up in Florida.  The insurance companies have been a little faster than FEMA at providing assistance, but that's their business.  I saw house after house after house where the residents had to do the exact same thing we did to the houses of my wife's relatives.  The Army Corps of Engineers is not real popular where her relatives live, but I still think the Corps did the right thing because if the dams and levees broke, the flooding would've been much worse than it was for everyone involved.

The water came within 15 feet of our doorstep and then stopped.  We had some minor damage in our kitchen caused by a roof leak, but I can repair that myself for nominal cost after more serious problems with the homes of my relatives and neighbors have been addressed.  A house is a bottomless money pit, much like a boat or an airplane.  I should've invested in Estwing and DeWalt.  I'm making them rich right now.

I can tell you that drywall, plywood, and wood, in general, are crappy building materials when flooding is an issue, as it is here, but they are cheap and easy to repair or replace.  The labor may be expensive, even if it's labor from illegal immigrants, but I don't charge anyone for my labor and I was born in the US.

The Churches that the regressive leftists despise were the only ones I saw out there helping anyone clean up.  I never saw any youth groups wearing antifa or blm T-shirts helping their neighbors clean up, although street thugs aren't very popular around here, so maybe that's why.  A Mormon youth group stopped by for an hour and helped us strip flooring as they made their rounds through the neighborhood.  In any event, it's pretty easy to see who the real selfless contributors to society are.  They have real work to do and don't have time to protest every little thing their government does that they don't agree with.

If the illegal immigrants who come here want to pay the taxes they owe, learn to speak English, and integrate into American society, then I have no problem whatsoever with that.  If they want to recreate the hell hole they ran away from, then they can go back to their hell holes.  Anyone who has a problem with the way we do things here is welcome to leave.  No one will stop them.  Anyone who tries to do that in commie utopia already knows what will happen.

In my absence, enjoy the echo chamber of self-deception, empty platitude, and morally bankrupt ideology.  Blame our President for everything that's wrong with the world.  It's a lot easier than looking in the mirror.  On that note, it's time for me to do it all over again.  L8r, g8r.

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#1037 2017-09-12 14:32:09

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 2,581
Website

Re: Politics

Kbd512:

My point many times has been:  all ideologies are bankrupt.  Not just some of them.  All of them.

As for work,  I live on a farm outside Waco a ways.  Yeah,  I do the work out here that few else want to do.  I know exactly what that stuff is. 

What you say about leftist academics not wanting to do that kind of work is quite true.  But,  I also see the rich right-wingers also unwilling to get dirt under their fingernails,  too.  It cuts both ways.  And that proves my point about bankrupt ideologies.

I hope the cleanup and recovery is going well for you.  From what you say,  it seems to be.  A house is always a bottomless money pit,  even in good times.  I know.  But you are right about it being much worse in bad times,  and that we use the wrong materials,  especially for flood risk zones.

Zoning may be more important than materials,  when it comes to flood-risk zones.  Something to think about. 

Anyhow,  keep us appraised on progress.  We all wish you the best. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1038 2017-09-12 16:23:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Kbd512:

Thank you for taking the time to post your status it is greatly appreciated. I am glad that your family is all safe and that its just home damage that is what you will be dealing with. Be safe while doing this work as I am well aware of doing this sort of labor in the warmth of a hot summer here in N.H..

I do hope that you have freinds willing to help with all that you will be doing for home repairs.

In 2005 and 6 when we had the flooding due to the continous rain that hit us in may I had to deal with roof failure, many ceilings and insulation being damaged by rain water, cellar flooding from a cinder block foundation from a rising water table on a hilside.....

I had to lift while climbing a ladder all 60 plus sheets of sheathing, tar paper, bundles of shingles to the roof that was 15 ft above the ground being a split level raised ranch style construction. The home is 40 plus by 24 for square fottage.

Duing the cellar filling to nearly a foot of water. I dug by hand a ditch the 40 plus foot length of the home roughly 4 feet deep to below the concrete foundation sill footing and then another 40 towards the sloping hillside away from the house to create a gravity feed removal of this issue.

Had to rip out all the cellar sheetrock, walls that had been water damaged and all remaining pieces of the cieling plus all the insulation as well.

The FEMA flood coverage did give me enough funds to just barely buy the materials to make the repairs to just the roof. I was unemployed at the time still trying to feed my family of 6 at the time since the 2 oldest had graduated and were on there own.

Kbd512 wrote:

If the illegal immigrants who come here want to pay the taxes they owe, learn to speak English, and integrate into American society, then I have no problem whatsoever with that.  If they want to recreate the hell hole they ran away from, then they can go back to their hell holes.  Anyone who has a problem with the way we do things here is welcome to leave.  No one will stop them.  Anyone who tries to do that in commie utopia already knows what will happen.

You have no argument with this as we do not need any more little Tokyo's, China, ect.... as it is not the melting pot of the US so when we find the imigrants that are here illegally which have been given amnesty and what was DACA we should then spread them out across the nation not just into the cities but into the rural urban areas as well. They are not given a choice.

They would be given then a dcument to explain in there language but part way though finish it in english. This document will cover the timeline and requirements to become american citizens, the requirement of registration to be allowed to work and at that time to check the progress of the individual for citzenship. If there is no progress on the requirements then they are detained and deported.

Non of the is racial, xenophobic and will not require any walls or nationality bans, isolationist ideology, no white supremists, neo nazis nor condoning of any of this as there is no place in this world for these.

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#1039 2017-09-12 18:50:23

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

This is really a dumb thing to be doing... More than 50 arrested for looting in Miami during Irma: police

Miami area police arrested more than 50 suspected looters during Hurricane Irma, including 26 people who were accused of breaking into a single Wal-Mart store. Among others suspected of looting were six men arrested on Monday and accused of breaking into stores at the Midtown Miami shopping complex, near the fashionable Wynwood district, before making off with merchandise that included shoes, bags and laptops.

The looting attempts spanned the city, said Miami Mayor Tomas Regalado, from the well-heeled Brickell and downtown neighborhoods to the low-income Liberty City and Little Haiti areas. He said police will stay vigilant as the cleanup goes on.

"I said we would not tolerate criminal activity or looting or anybody who takes advantage of our residents," Deputy Chief of Police Luis Cabrera said at a news conference. "I was not joking."

Law choosing to save life.. Ahead Of Hurricane Irma, Miami Detained Homeless People Against Their Will Authorities took the rare and controversial step to protect some people from the storm.

The Baker Act ― the informal name given to Florida’s Mental Health Act of 1971 ― allows police and government officials to involuntarily detain individuals who may have a mental illness or could pose a significant threat to themselves or others. The law requires “clear and convincing evidence” that individuals detained under it are in danger.
Miami-Dade police ultimately used the Baker Act to arrest six people in the days before Irma began to batter the south Florida coast Saturday night and into Sunday morning, Book told HuffPost. Twelve others, he said, were in handcuffs before ultimately agreeing to go willingly to one of the 42 shelters the county had opened to house Irma evacuees.
In Miami, the six individuals arrested under the Baker Act were taken to Jackson Memorial Hospital for evaluations, Book said. The law allows them to remain in custody for 72 hours, while any further detention would require a court order in most circumstances.
Miami-Dade County had more than 1,100 people sleeping on the streets in August, the Homeless Trust found as part of annual count of the city’s homeless population, meaning many people likely remained on the streets throughout the storm.

“Were there 600 left on the streets? I don’t know,” Book said. “But there were a lot we left behind, a lot we couldn’t get to or just ran out of time.”

This seems stranger than fiction but Florida Pizza Hut Takes Heat For Threatening Workers Fleeing Irma; “You guys are closed on Christmas, but sending delivery drivers to their death for a hurricane?” one Twitter user responded.

one of its franchises in Florida threatened to punish employees who wanted to evacuate as Hurricane Irma approached.

A photo of a memo from the manager at a Jacksonville location began circulating on Twitter on Sunday. The notice tells workers that they have a “responsibility and commitment” to the community, and that those who planned to evacuate would only get a 24-hour “grace period” before the storm “to not be scheduled.”

“In the event of an evacuation, you MUST return within 72 HOURS,” the memo said in bold type.
“You cannot evacuate Friday for a Tuesday storm event!”  “Failure to show for these shifts, regardless of reason, will be considered a no call/no show and documentation will be issued.”

Why So Many People Don’t ‘Just Leave’ When A Major Hurricane Hits It has nothing to do with being lazy or negligent.

A flight out of nearby Tampa to Philadelphia, where Berberian has family, would cost her over $1,000, she said. (She noted that she has booked last-minute tickets to Philly in the past that cost as little as $200.) Last-minute tickets out of the state were running as high as $3,000, the Miami Herald reported. Historic storm or not, many Floridians have no choice but to stay put when the winds rise.

Fourteen percent of the people who remained in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina had a physical disability. Fifty-five percent of them didn’t have access to a car or another way to leave. And 68 percent didn’t have either money in the bank or a useable credit card, Pacific Standard Magazine reported in 2015.

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#1040 2017-09-13 18:33:32

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

The real face of what it is to be american
AArSnuN.img?h=468&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=894&y=686

Trump pledged to give a million for aid and he is American but this billionaire immigrant who just made one of the largest donations to Hurricane Harvey relief

Hoang is perhaps the most financially successful Vietnamese to immigrate to America in the aftermath of the Vietnam War, a story owed to both luck and force of will.

Yes he came ove legally but there were just as many that did not as part of the refugees...

2005, Hoang returned to Vietnam for the first time since fleeing, building 5,000 homes as well as roads, bridges, temples, and schools,

Mexico Ignores Trump's Border Wall Shakedown, Offers Aid to Texas but after the huricane and earthquake things have changed as a result of them as Mexico rescinds offer to help Harvey relief efforts after governor of Texas Accept Mexican Offer of Hurricane Harvey Relief they also had made the choice. Since Trump Still Hasn't Responded To Mexico's Offer Of Hurricane relief. Mr Trump failed to offer condolences to the country after the earthquake and the separate hurricane, sparking heavy condemnation from around the world they are refocusing there much needed relief efforts back to there own people.

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#1041 2017-09-13 19:05:00

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Mueller’s team of prosecutors and FBI agents is zeroing in on how Russia spread fake and damaging information through social media and are seeking additional evidence from companies like Facebook and Twitter about what happened on their networks, said one of the officials, who asked not to be identified discussing the ongoing investigation.

The ability of foreign nations to use social media to manipulate and influence elections and policy is increasingly seen as the soft underbelly of international espionage, another official said, because it doesn’t involve the theft of state secrets and the U.S. doesn’t have a ready defense to prevent such attacks.

The NSA had some knowledge before the election of the computer infrastructure Russia was using, but it was looking abroad and not at what was happening through social media in the U.S.. The National Security Agency said it’s unlikely that social-media companies knew how Russia was using them before the election because U.S. intelligence agencies didn’t even fully grasp what was happening. “Russia has clearly assumed an even more aggressive cyber posture by increasing cyber espionage operations and leaking data stolen from those operations,”

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#1042 2017-09-15 10:21:51

Antius
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2007-05-22
Posts: 870

Re: Politics

SpaceNut wrote:

Director of the NSA, Admiral Mike Rogers, has admitted in a private town-hall-style meeting of NSA staffing that Donald Trump did, in fact, collude with the Russians. Months ago it was reported that there was a FISA surveillance warrant on Carter Page, dating back to at least the summer of 2016, which would have been right in the middle of the time he worked for the Donald Trump campaign.

The surveillance on Carter Page actually goes back much further than originally thought. It goes all the way back to 2014. This means that every word of Page’s remote communications with Donald Trump and the campaign have likely been recorded.

Who cares.  What does collude mean anyway?  The Democrats receive campaign contributions from the pro-Israel lobby, Saudi Arabia, China, to name just a few.  I would fully expect Trump to have conversations with the Russians.  It is not an insensible thing for an aspiring president to do.  Wouldn't it be great to actually find a way of getting along with these people?  The fuss and paranoia generated by the US media over 'Trump and the Russians' is absurd.  The Washington Post and New York Times are Zionist rags pushing their own interests and a lot of people are either too ignorant or too stupid to see through it.

Last edited by Antius (2017-09-15 10:23:00)

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#1043 2017-09-15 16:01:54

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 2,581
Website

Re: Politics

Look,  "collusion" isn't the problem,  vulnerability to foreign extortion is.  Collusion is a moral failure,  not a legal failure. 

Vulnerability to foreign extortion depends upon where your income actually comes from,  and to whom you owe money for the loans needed to run big businesses. 

Generally speaking,  western banks won't touch Trump,  because of his 6 bankruptcies-of-record as a real estate mogul.  The reason he did not fade into richly-deserved obscurity with bankruptcy number 6 was a moral failure on the part of the Wall Street investment banks:  they thought (rightly) they could make more money from keeping him financially alive to sell use of his name,  than from liquidating him. 

Since then most of his customers and investment bankers have been Russian.  The same Russian mafia that keeps itself in power by keeping Putin in power.  If Trump's tax returns were ever revealed,  that is exactly what they would reveal. 

Why else would he do "anything" to keep them secret?  He's in hock up to his eyebrows to the same Russian mafia that keeps Putin in power. If they say "frog",  he has to hop,  just like Putin.

Sooner or later,  they WILL say "frog".  And he will have to hop.  Not tolerable in a US president.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-09-15 16:05:24)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1044 2017-09-15 18:36:57

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/collusion

An agreement between two or more people to defraud a person of his or her rights...
A secret arrangement wherein two or more people whose legal interests seemingly conflict conspire to commit Fraud upon another person

Electoral fraud, election manipulation, or vote rigging is illegal interference with the process of an election, whether by increasing the vote share of the favored ...

Months of adamantly denying that investigators would find even a shred of evidence pointing to collusion between his campaign and Russia meetings this has been found to not be true as there has been many meetings

"Collusion networks" can gain a foothold through some third-party apps on Facebook. Researchers say a security loophole has allowed at least a million Facebook ... Media-sourced proof that Russia threw the 2016 election for Trump, and Trump colluded with the effort.

Facebook revealed Russia had bought ads ahead of the election, a tangle of financial relationships between Trump and his operation with Russian money.

Trump campaign and other associates have worked really hard to hide their connections with Russians.

In law, treason is the crime that covers some of the more extreme acts against one's nation or sovereign (the crime of) showing no loyalty to your country,

.

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#1045 2017-09-16 11:05:22

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 2,581
Website

Re: Politics

The Constitution defines treason as either (1) making war upon the United States,  or (2) providing aid and comfort to its enemy;  and it prescribes the procedures by which government officers or private citizens can be tried for it.  Conviction requires at least 2 witnesses to the act,  or a confession in open court. 

Impeachment could be for treason,  or it could be for the deliberately ill-defined "high crimes and misdemeanors",  as it has been 3 times before.  Impeachment procedures are also defined by the Constitution.  The House draws up and brings charges,  the trial is conducted in the Senate,  with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court presiding,  not the VP.  There are no standards for conviction given,  except for treason.  But it does take a 2/3 super-majority of the Senate to convict,  that is specified. 

Lawyers are not needed to interpret these things.  The language in the Constitution is clear enough to someone with 3rd grade reading ability.

Now,  collusion with the Russians to sway the election might (or might not) be worthy of an impeachment trial.  Who knows?  We'll see.  Last time around,  oral sex with an intern in the Oval Office was considered worthy. There's no real accounting for politics,  anyway.  And impeachment is most clearly a political process,  or it would have been relegated to the courts by the Constitution.

But what is clear is that the Russians (1) attempted to sway voters' choices with fake news stirring up the "alt-right",  the same as they have been doing in Europe in recent years,  and (2) they tried and mostly-failed (but not entirely-failed) to break into voter registration records,  voting records,  and voter machines. 

Personally,  I consider those 2 things acts of war.  And they have gone unanswered.  More than just Trump deserve to be run up against the wall and shot for that lack,  if nothing else.  This has been going on since before the 2016 election. 

As for the "alt right",  which is largely the Nazis,  the KKK,  the other white supremacist groups,  and similar trash:  this country didn't go to total war to destroy Nazi Germany,  only to see people marching in its streets under the Nazi swastika flag,  and giving Nazi salutes. 

And we didn't fight a Civil War only to see the KKK try to bring back a de-facto form of slavery,  except that THAT is EXACTLY what happened after the Civil War,  until the 1960's.  After a century of that bullshit,  it's way past time to put an end to it,  and finally heal. 

There are no "good" Nazis.  There are no "good" KKK,  etc.  The sooner we quit being politically correct about this,  the sooner we can rid our society of these enemies-of-our-state.

As for Confederate heroes,  Mr. Lincoln chose not to regard the Confederates as traitors at the end of the Civil War,  in the interest of reuniting a fatally-divided country.  We don't need to reverse his decision today!  The Confederate monuments were erected mostly in the 1920's as part of the intimidation during the century of de-facto slavery after the Civil War.  You can tell because of the lack of other types of monuments to other heroes,  where these were erected. 

And yet,  while we can reject what these Confederates fought for,  we can still admire the skill and valor with which they fought!  This is not an insignificant thing:  that war lasted 4 years,  not 1,  precisely because of that very skill and valor.  THAT is why some US military bases are named for Confederate heroes,  such as Ft. Hood near where I live. 

What Schwartzkopf used in the ’91 Gulf War was a Confederate tactic,  but at the army level,  something not done since the Civil War.  And it worked,  just as it did 150+ years ago.  American ingenuity at its best,  even if it was Confederate.  That is something worth remembering.

There is no need to destroy 100% of this for the sake of a political correctness fad-of-the-moment.  We just need to recognize the difference between what these monuments meant to those who erected them,  versus what they can still mean for all of us today.  Perhaps changes of venue are appropriate.  Perhaps a mix of monuments to more diverse people is even more appropriate. 

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-09-16 11:11:14)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1046 2017-09-16 19:32:58

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Donald Trump looks to be speeding down the path of impeachment faster by the day. As Mueller Closes In, Republicans Panic and Launch Blackmail Tactict o not talk about a Trump impeachment ever-in any way. Republicans, mostly agree that Trump is unfit for office, there are a few high ranking members in the party that are threatening their colleagues over the impeachment talk. With each passing day Mueller finds more details regarding the Trump-Russia scandal and just how many people it includes.
Evidence Now Implicates Republican Party in Russian Plan to Rig Election RNC Chair Reince Priebus was in fact at in attendance at the Trump Tower meeting between Trump Jr., and the Kremlin. Clearly, Russia isn’t even trying to hide the fact they rigged the election anymore. Recently, one Russian government official hinted that he might not see the end of his term, while another announced that Russia has blackmail on him, and now another is bragging on national television that Russia is the reason Trump got elected in the first place. Devin Nunes Unwittingly Reveals Trump Campaign Illegally Negotiated with Russians. Russian Officials Now Publicly Threaten Release of Blackmail Material on Trump.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-russia … 29702.html

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#1047 2017-09-17 07:19:04

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,074

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

The judges in our courts system already understand that spreading political propaganda through social media is not a crime, but this point of law seems to be lost on you and GW.  Even so, make your best attempt at explaining what crimes you think were committed by spreading political speech on social media, whether the information was factual or otherwise and whether it was spread by a foreign government, super pac, or some dimwit in his mother's basement who was "offended" that someone he didn't like ran for President.

When various media outlets spread information by mass media using "anonymous sources" from within the FBI, or from our various intelligence agencies, and former FBI Director James Comey knew those media reports were factually incorrect, were any of the members of our media ever prosecuted for that?

Maybe some of them were fired by the media outlets they worked for because they were sorry excuses for journalists and their "stories", or should I say "fairy tales", were later proven to be factually incorrect, but were they ever prosecuted by our government for spreading false information?

If those sorry excuses for journalists were never prosecuted, do you think there might be some reason for that beyond the fact that their ignorance-based narratives agreed with your political persuasions?

Apart from our growing population of obese people, the US doesn't have a "soft underbelly".  It does far too many people with "soft heads".  The evidence for that is that they're too ignorant to question everything any media or government source says or does.  They're so spectacularly ignorant that they don't even know what pertinent laws apply to using social media for political purposes.  Apart from libel or making threats, both favored tactics of leftist groups, there are few laws regarding freedom of speech and that's a very good thing.  Thank you for proving that point to the rest of the world reading this in a way that I never could.

Since this point of law isn't clear, the second you say "I think", "I believe", "it seems to me", or anything of the sort, you're stating an opinion.  You can have the opinion that the sky is red, even if the rest of us see blue, and it's not a crime of any kind.  The rest of the people watching the "red sky" / "blue sky" argument are free to believe whatever they want.  Similarly, you can have the opinion that former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is a liar and a felon who should either be in jail or on trial right now because that's exactly what would happen if someone in the military decided that laws pertaining to classified information did not apply to them.  Absent the evidence backing that opinion that only the FBI has, it's still just my opinion.  If someone who works directly or indirectly for a foreign government posts that same opinion to social media, then their opinion is still within our laws and they may do so, whether you like it or not.

Political speech you don't agree with is still not a crime, no matter how much you want it to be.  Oddly enough, there are still no calls from anyone in the Democrat Party to prosecute former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for actual theft of state secrets.  Taking classified information from a secure environment and downloading it to your home server is an actual federal crime, destroying evidence of the theft of state secrets is an actual federal crime, and so is lying to FBI agents about such activities.  It doesn't matter whether or not you meant to do it or not and it doesn't matter whether or not you did so knowingly or through carelessness or ignorance, it's still a federal crime.

Everyone who handles classified information for our federal government receives extensive training on what is permitted and what is not, what the laws and regulations regarding handling of classified information are, and they also receive continuing training and reminders about handling classified information for as long as they hold a security clearance.  Former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, knew exactly what the law was, as it pertained to handling of classified information, but she decided to violate the law anyway.

The Democrat Party ran a candidate that the people in an overwhelming majority of electoral districts thought was a worse choice for President than President Trump and that's why former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, lost the election.  Blaming everyone else for her personal failings and spreading nonsense related to this laughably absurd witch hunt that's gone on for the better part of a year without finding out which "witch" was to blame is so unbelievably silly that it's simply too tiring to respond to every absurdity I've seen posted here.

Former Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton, didn't inspire enough people to get off their rear ends and vote for her.  We don't have popular votes because major cities aren't the only ones who get a say in elections in our system of governance.  President Trump won the election because enough people voted for him in a plurality of electoral districts.  That's all that happened.  It's over.  Let it go.

Next time, run a candidate who doesn't lie about things that don't even need to be lied about (because it's so obvious in a world where every time someone farts it's recorded on video and uploaded to the internet for posterity), stop patronizing and talking down to people, stop the identity politics nonsense, and stop allowing your party to rig its own elections for or against one candidate or another.  Try finding someone who at least does a good job of pretending to like our country and its people, including the ones who live in "fly over" country.  If your party can do those things, then they can simply undo everything President Trump did that they don't agree with.  Otherwise, be prepared for another loss at the polls.

This politically motivated Trump-Russia investigation farce is the sort of conspiracy theory nonsense that belongs on a Rachel Maddow or Alex Jones show.  The US federal government has been investigating President Trump and his campaign staff for over a year now and we still don't have anything approaching "evidence" of anything at all.  We have lots of proven lies from leftist media outlets, rumors, and innuendo from "anonymous sources", which is just liberal regressive speak for "I just made something up to disparage President Trump because I hate President Trump", but nothing in the way of actual evidence.

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#1048 2017-09-17 09:07:52

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Spreading political propaganda aka Making false statements is a crime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements

All False statements involving Donald Trump

A non vote is not a viable option either as this is what the electoral college is all about making sure that your vote counts.

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#1049 2017-09-17 10:39:27

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 2,581
Website

Re: Politics

Kbd512:

I hope your recovery tasks are going well. 

Your conservative glasses are too tinted.  They blind you to what is actually said or written,  especially in this rather contentious thread.  Like so many other Trump supporters,  you only see the world as black or white:  Trump supporter or Trump hater.  The real world is far more diverse than that.

Yes,  Spacenut is clearly a supporter of Democratic party policies and agendas,  and UNLIKE what you say,  there is nothing wrong with that!  There are no new ideas to try if there is no diversity of belief and opinion.  Regimentation is when everybody looks and sounds alike.  That is NOT living free.

I on the other hand,  am an independent,  and a rather fierce one at that.  And you do seem unable to recognize that.  Not supporting Trump (because he appears to me to be a totally-incompetent buffoon) DOES NOT make me a Democrat or a Hillary Clinton supporter.  I voted against him by voting for her,  not to support her,  but only as the very-slightly-lesser of two very great evils (as they appeared to me).  Our 3rd parties are not credible at this time,  which left me no other viable choice.

To me,  as best I can tell,  both of the major parties' primaries were deliberately rigged to give us such a terrible choice.  Clinton was the only Democrat a bad Republican choice like Trump could possibly beat.  And he did in the electoral college.  Trump was the only Republican a bad Democrat choice like Clinton could possibly beat,  and she did in the popular vote.  I find NO COINCIDENCE in that,  given the takeover of our government by the gigantic financial interests in recent decades.  Bread-and-circuses diversion it was.

As for the electoral college,  I actually favor keeping it,  as the prime means to stop NYC and LA from electing our presidents from now on.  But I do see merit to ending the winner-take-all approach to assigning the electoral votes. Something more approaching proportionality would pretty much end the increasingly-frequent disparities between electoral and popular results.  And we don't need a Constitutional amendment to do that:  it's a state-by-state decision.  Says so in the Constitution. 

What you said about handling classified information is very true,  and I quite agree with you,  as far as your contention goes.  Clinton did indeed break the law.  What you left out was the painfully obvious double standard applied in DC to enforcing that very law!  If you or I had done what she (or any of the rest of the DC crowd) did with classified data,  marked or not,  we'd still be in jail today.  For me that's saying something:  I last had a clearance and handled such data 23 years ago.

The politicians and officials of all stripes in DC get away with not only mishandling classified data,  but with overtly leaking it to the public.  They get away with this crime every damned day.  Double standard!  THAT "swamp" really does need to be drained!  Among several others,  but that one is overtly criminal!

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-09-17 12:19:15)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#1050 2017-09-17 17:56:37

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,262

Re: Politics

Rallying cry to 'resist' Trump evolves

The Capitol's ruling Democrats introduced more than 35 bills to mount policy blockades against Trump. Four have since become law or part of the state budget, and eight more await the governor's signature.

Will the 2018 House Elections Be 2006 All Over Again? Will Democrats win control of the House of Representatives Democrats they would have to pitch a near-perfect game to take control of the Senate (the map heavily favors Republicans), the House will likely remain the main event in national electoral politics for the next year and a half.

Of course this all started with the changing of the electoral lines to begin with...
Fight Over Electoral District Boundaries Heads To Supreme Court

Lie cheat steal ect... win at any cost... “There is a sense that something has gone amiss with American democracy, that there is this effort to rig the rules of the game.”

It is a political practice nearly as old as the United States - manipulating the boundaries of legislative districts to help one party tighten its grip on power in a move called partisan gerrymandering - and one the Supreme Court has never curbed.

That could soon change, with the nine justices making the legal fight over Republican-drawn electoral maps in Wisconsin one of the first cases they hear during their 2017-2018 term that begins next month. Their ruling in the case could influence American politics for decades.

The case began in 2015 when a dozen Wisconsin Democratic Party voters sued state election officials claiming the redistricting law intended to discriminate against them for their political beliefs and create enduring Republican majorities.

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