New Mars Forums

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Roger Stone, President Trump's former campaign advisor, on Friday admitted to having private conversations with a hacker who helped leak information from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) during last year's campaign.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,856

Re: Election Meddling

Try again as A lawyer for Michael Flynn told the Trump transition team long before President Trump’s inauguration that Flynn might have to register as a foreign agent because of his work on behalf of Turkey, the Associated Press and USA Today have reported. Trump KNEW Flynn Was a Foreign Agent; He DIDN’T CARE.

Flynn was never a foreign agent and the intelligence agencies you like quoting said so.  Your claim is demonstrably false using sources you like to cite.

False claim of President Trump’s ludicrous accusation that his residence was wiretapped by the Obama administration during the 2016 elections with the House Intelligence: ‘NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER’ to wiretapping of Trump..

There was a FISA court order to obtain records from Donald Trump.  Do court orders for wiretapping not count as evidence?  Again, your claim is demonstrably false using sources you like to cite.

The president is willing to destroy the very agencies that actually keep our country safe by a 14% cut to the Coast Guard’s … budget and 11% cuts to both the T.S.A. and FEMA....way to go with letting down the water defenses on illegal drug smuggling, people trafficing or illegal imagrants and then do not wait for help to come after that big storm or tornado or from a huricane as Fema will not be coming....

The OMB budget is a proposal, which would normally be equivalent to an idea if President Obama was still President.  Now that President Trump is President, it's President Trump's attempt to destroy "safety".  Whether or not you "feel safe" has nothing to do with real physical well-being.

I seem to recall reading that the Coast Guard seized a record 416,600lbs of drugs last year.  The overall quantity seized from illegal aliens was more than 5,200,000lbs.  It's a significant contribution from the Coast Guard.  The bulk of the drugs come from Mexican illegal aliens over land through our porous southern border.  I'm sure they only want to come here and achieve the American Dream... by selling crack to kids.

TSA is security theater, as opposed to real physical security that comes from profiling those peace-loving muslims who like to run airplanes into buildings.  Nobody's grandmother needs to be groped in front of an audience to achieve real physical security.  A few years back some dingus made a bomb using materials gathered from gift shops at the airport.  It didn't go over well, but proved how stupid the entire show is.

The notion that FEMA does anything to "keep this country safe" is laughable at best.  After Hurricane Ike yours truly went up and down our block with an axe and hand saw.  I drug all the fallen limbs and trees out of the street to clear the roads.  When I arrived at the last tree to clear, one of my neighbors decided to help me drag it out of the street.  Everyone else stood around and stared like they were transported to the moon or something.  After that experience, I learned to talk to my neighbors more often.  They're more likely to help you move heavy things out of the street instead of watching you do it.

I never saw a HPD Officer, except on their way to the poorer neighborhoods a few blocks away.  The son of the woman who took care of our daughter while my wife was at work was a newly minted HPD officer at the time.  He described his experiences over there with one word- awful.  At night when people decided to roam around in violation of the city curfew, there were no Police to be found.  Thankfully, my two best friends, Sam Colt and Eugene Stoner, helped me look after my family.

Approximately a week after the storm, someone from FEMA stopped by and wanted to give my wife an MRE.  She laughed at the woman and told her we didn't need it.  After life under the commies in Viet Nam, momma was smart enough to stockpile some food and water for a rainy day... or rainy and windy day in this case.

Trump’s five impeachable offenses are:

Accusations don't amount to impeachable offenses.

1. Accusing his predecessor, President Barack Obama, of wiretapping his phones in Trump Tower in the run-up to the election.

A FISA court surveilled President Trump's aides, and by way of connection President Trump if you have the slightest clue about how surveillance works, whereupon President Obama was provided this information, and this was confirmed by the people who executed the surveillance activities.  Telling the truth is now a revolutionary act.

2. Using the U.S.’s relationship with foreign governments to personally profit, through his Trump International Hotel chain.

Legal matters are decided by courts, not propaganda from political partisans.

3. Violating the First Amendment (and its protection of religious freedom) through his Muslim travel ban.

The legal right to enter this country from another country is determined by the Executive Branch, not the First Amendment.  Non-citizens do not have any constitutional protections and there is no supporting legal opinion upheld by our courts supporting your claim.

4. Violating the First Amendment by labeling the press “the enemy of the American people” and curbing freedom of press.

The President never did any such thing.  If you're going to quote President Trump, it's probably a good idea to quote what he actually said rather than what a media source printed.

5. Violating Article III Section 3 of the Constitution (“treason”) — there is growing evidence that he may have colluded with Russia to win the election.

From information obtained from their wire taps, our counterintelligence agents at the FBI disagree with you.

More to come I am sure....as DON’T ASK About Russia! Reporter MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell THROWN OUT of State Dept. is sensorship

It's amusing how that First Amendment that liberals claim to love so much is somehow criminal when it opposes their agenda.  I don't recall anyone in the Obama Administration who was ever prosecuted for denying other peoples' 1A rights using the IRS.  Why do liberals make such a concerted effort to suppress dissenting opinions?  Are their arguments really that weak?

Tom Kalbfus

Banned

Registered: 2006-08-16

Posts: 4,401

Re: Election Meddling

Try again as A lawyer for Michael Flynn told the Trump transition team long before President Trump’s inauguration that Flynn might have to register as a foreign agent because of his work on behalf of Turkey, the Associated Press and USA Today have reported. Trump KNEW Flynn Was a Foreign Agent; He DIDN’T CARE.

False claim of President Trump’s ludicrous accusation that his residence was wiretapped by the Obama administration during the 2016 elections with the House Intelligence: ‘NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER’ to wiretapping of Trump..

The president is willing to destroy the very agencies that actually keep our country safe by a 14% cut to the Coast Guard’s … budget and 11% cuts to both the T.S.A. and FEMA....way to go with letting down the water defenses on illegal drug smuggling, people trafficing or illegal imagrants and then do not wait for help to come after that big storm or tornado or from a huricane as Fema will not be coming....

Trump’s five impeachable offenses are:

1. Accusing his predecessor, President Barack Obama, of wiretapping his phones in Trump Tower in the run-up to the election.
Obviously Trump is an old fashioned kind of guy, basically what he means is the CIA was hacking into his computer systems and turning his devices into listening and recording devices, cell phones and the like, and they were doing that with the Russian Ambassador as well, and if anyone talks with the Russian Ambassador, they are accused of all sorts of evil things. You know the Soviets used to arrest their own citizens for talking to an American, as it was automatically assumed they were being disloyal to the Soviet Union if they did so without permission. Trump is doing precisely the same as they're doing to him, presuming someone guilty until proven innocent. The fact that someone talked to the Russian Ambassador is not an impeachable offense, the rest is unproven speculation by an overactive left wing media mind!

2. Using the U.S.’s relationship with foreign governments to personally profit, through his Trump International Hotel chain.
What's the alternative? A Russian Ambassador checks into the Trump Hotel, and the hotel employee at the desk says, "Sorry we can't help you, our employer is running for President so we need to discriminate against all Russians looking for a hotel room!" Considering that it was a Democrat that gave the Russians the secret of the atomic bomb, it was a democrat that allowed the Russians to hold onto Eastern Europe after World War II. Harry S. Truman could have driven the Soviets out of Europe and he did not! It was the Democrats who got us involved in the Vietnam War and then undermined support of that war after Nixon became President! It was the Democrats who cut our military during the Cold War in the 1970s and allowed the Soviets to achieve numerical superiority in both missiles and conventional forces! The Soviets had at best and economy only half the size of the United States, so this was a deliberate decision! We could have matched the Soviets gun for gun, bullet for bullet, soldier for soldier if we wanted to, but it was he Democrats who neglected out military during that time, so they should be the last ones playing the role of Senator Joseph McCarthy vs Donald Trump!

3. Violating the First Amendment (and its protection of religious freedom) through his Muslim travel ban.
It was not a Muslim Travel Ban, it was a ban against immigration from Seven countries, Jimmy Carter enacted a similar ban against Iranian citizens. German and Japanese citizens weren't allowed to immigrate to the United States during World War II. The First Amendment does not guarantee a foreign citizen's right to immigrate to the United States, that is not an expression of free speech  or freedom of religion. If a particular religion declares war on us, we don't have to allow them to come to the United States in order to kill American citizens either.

4. Violating the First Amendment by labeling the press “the enemy of the American people” and curbing freedom of press.
Trump did no such thing. Just calling the press "the enemy of the American people" is Donald Trump exercising his First Amendment rights to say what he wants, he hasn't arrested anyone for saying what they want. The President is under no obligation to talk to any reporters he doesn't like, they are not being arrested for their false reporting, but the President doesn't have to give them access to the White House either! There are many news media, and they all can't fit into the press conference room. Trump has no room for false reporting and fake news by people trying to libel and smear him.

5. Violating Article III Section 3 of the Constitution (“treason”) — there is growing evidence that he may have colluded with Russia to win the election.
There is no evidence only innuendo and false reporting.

More to come I am sure....as DON’T ASK About Russia! Reporter MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell THROWN OUT of State Dept. is censorship.
No censorship is shutting MSNBC down, not throwing one of its reporters out of the State Department! MSNBC has the right to report what it wants, but Trump is under no obligation to give them access to the White House, it is a two-way street!

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

The next election will not be so easy to corrupt but only if states fund to upgrade old equipment...

States scramble for funding to upgrade aging voting machines

At least once a year, staffers in one of Texas' largest election offices scour the web for a relic from a bygone technology era: Zip disks.

The advanced version of the floppy disk that was cutting edge in the mid-1990s plays a vital role in tallying votes in Bexar County, where like other places around the U.S., money to replace antiquated voting equipment is scarce.

Trump firing of Preet Bharara leaves void in fight against corruption and Wall Street crime

https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-the-aclu … 11455.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-threa … 37686.html

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

The American public is tired of the constant lies and with President Trump claims that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower he may also be called into obstruction as he needs to show proof of the claim.  Congress demands evidence of the claims while some House Republicans admit that there is no evidence. Trump if found guilty of obstruction of justice, that is an offense that could get him impeached. To further impede the chances of being going to court to be found guilty he fires all the remaining AG's that were still actively working. The House intelligence committee said it would give the Justice Department until March 20 to comply with the evidence request. That's the date of the committee's first open hearing on the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible contacts between Trump associates and Russia. With which the only tapping that was going on is the computer banking signals which were being monitored and nothing else.

Check Out President Trump Blatantly Lying About ObamaCare Once Again all while trying to reassuring the masses who are worried about the loss of healthcare under the GOP Repeal and Replace plan. But Trumpcare is American Health Care Act really is “dead on arrival” according to a new report from the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation. The AARP estimates that a 64-year-old making $15,000 a year would pay $8,400 more for coverage under the proposed Republican bill than the Affordable Care Act. Overall, people in their 50s would pay 25-30 percent more in premiums under the new plan, the group projects.

‘Robin Hood in reverse’: CBO report on GOP health care plan supports Democrats’ charges
Congressional Budget Office’s report estimating that 24 million fewer Americans would be insured under the Republican health care plan 10 years from now, arguing their colleagues should abandon the effort. The CBO projected that costs eventually would be higher for older people buying coverage and lower for younger people, averaging out to a 10 percent reduction in premiums on the individual market 10 years from now. 14 million people would lose insurance next year after the bill passed.

Tom Kalbfus

Banned

Registered: 2006-08-16

Posts: 4,401

Re: Election Meddling

The American public is tired of the constant lies and with President Trump claims that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower he may also be called into obstruction as he needs to show proof of the claim.

How else would the Administration know that Trump was conspiring with the Russians to rig the 2016 Presidential elections, when will the Democrat Media stop lying about that? if they are telling the truth, then Trump was telling the truth about being spied upon by the previous Administration. So if you accept one truth you have to accept the other.

Congress demands evidence of the claims while some House Republicans admit that there is no evidence. Trump if found guilty of obstruction of justice, that is an offense that could get him impeached.

Let the Republicans impeach their own President and they will deserve what they get! They'll get a more conservative President Pence, and he will lead the effort to primary challenge all the Republican Congress people that impeached Trump! Pence will do this, he wouldn't be there if not for Trump, and if the Republicans impeach him too, it will look self serving to make Paul Ryan President of the United States, by this time the Tea Party will be an actual Political Party, I don't see how the Democrats can benefit from this, the American People will still want reform! If Congress impeaches Trump they will do so against the will of the American People, and will prove just how corrupt the two-party system is with the Democrats and Republicans!

To further impede the chances of being going to court to be found guilty he fires all the remaining AG's that were still actively working. The House intelligence committee said it would give the Justice Department until March 20 to comply with the evidence request. That's the date of the committee's first open hearing on the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible contacts between Trump associates and Russia. With which the only tapping that was going on is the computer banking signals which were being monitored and nothing else.

Check Out President Trump Blatantly Lying About ObamaCare Once Again all while trying to reassuring the masses who are worried about the loss of healthcare under the GOP Repeal and Replace plan. But Trumpcare is American Health Care Act really is “dead on arrival” according to a new report from the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation. The AARP estimates that a 64-year-old making $15,000 a year would pay $8,400 more for coverage under the proposed Republican bill than the Affordable Care Act. Overall, people in their 50s would pay 25-30 percent more in premiums under the new plan, the group projects.

‘Robin Hood in reverse’: CBO report on GOP health care plan supports Democrats’ charges
Congressional Budget Office’s report estimating that 24 million fewer Americans would be insured under the Republican health care plan 10 years from now, arguing their colleagues should abandon the effort. The CBO projected that costs eventually would be higher for older people buying coverage and lower for younger people, averaging out to a 10 percent reduction in premiums on the individual market 10 years from now. 14 million people would lose insurance next year after the bill passed.

RobertDyck

Moderator

From: Winnipeg, Canada

Registered: 2002-08-20

Posts: 7,934

Website

Re: Election Meddling

I posted elsewhere about a new political system for Mars. I gave examples from Canada. This included stupid actions by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper in 2008. He damn near got himself removed. His stupid action was immediately after the federal election, he tried to force through a bill that would take away funding from every political party other than his own. But according to Canada's constitution, what he did would get him removed, a new Prime Minister would be appointed. This was right after the election, before Parliament sat for the first day after the election. Stupid idiot was Prime Minister of Canada, yet didn't understand the Canadian Constitution. He and his party lost the election in 2015, but that doesn't change the fact his actions in 2008 were just stupid.

I say this because many have pointed out Donald Trump doesn't understand the American Constitution. There appears to be a pattern here. I feel your pain.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Tom I saw the play on words as being a parody to what trump had said during the election campaign that in what he said has come back to haunt him...
Donald Trump boasted, I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters' as he bragged about how loyal his supporters.... Snope Dog is just joking just like he was right....

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,856

Re: Election Meddling

Tom I saw the play on words as being a parody to what trump had said during the election campaign that in what he said has come back to haunt him...
Donald Trump boasted, I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters' as he bragged about how loyal his supporters.... Snope Dog is just joking just like he was right....

Do you think President Trump's behavior is as much of a problem as the people who are actually threatening to kill or asking other people to kill President Trump?  How many skits has President Trump come up with showing him shooting someone that were subsequently aired on national television stations?  Did President Trump actually threaten to kill someone on 5th Avenue or ask someone to kill someone on 5th Avenue on his behalf?

I think these liberals are just showing their true colors.  They're hate-filled and spiteful little people who will not simply disagree with people of different political persuasions.  They want to silence or murder anyone who doesn't agree with them.  From what I've seen of their public behavior after the election, there's no difference between liberals and the real Nazis that they falsely claim President Trump's supporters to be.  There was no looting or burning of cars in the streets when President Obama was elected.  When will these supposedly loving and tolerant liberals demonstrate what they say they stand for by ending their violent criminal behavior?

Why should the "let me have my way, or I'll burn cars and loot stores" crowd ever be allowed to vote?  Is that the behavior of rational adults capable of making a decision as important as who the next President is, or is that the behavior of irrational children throwing temper tantrums?  Do you condone this type of behavior if the President is someone you personally disagree with?

Tom Kalbfus

Banned

Registered: 2006-08-16

Posts: 4,401

Re: Election Meddling

Tom I saw the play on words as being a parody to what trump had said during the election campaign that in what he said has come back to haunt him...
Donald Trump boasted, I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters' as he bragged about how loyal his supporters.... Snope Dog is just joking just like he was right....

"Could" does not equal "did", Trump is prone to boasting and exaggeration, you should learn not to take him literally about everything he says. Its quite obvious that Trump was bragging and not serious, just like when he was joking about the Russians having the missing Hillary e-mails, the liberals wanted to misinterpret that abd blow that all up into Trump collaborating with the Russians, guess they can't take a joke! You really think if Trump was collaboration with the Russians, he would joke about it on television? I don't. You have "word lawyers" examining every syllable Trump utters and trying to find ways to use those words against him, this is ridiculous, and we don't need this "legal weenie" stuff! Do you take the "Legal Weenie" lawyers seriously? They need to get a life!

Terraformer

Member

From: The Fortunate Isles

Registered: 2007-08-27

Posts: 3,906

Website

Re: Election Meddling

Of course, were the American political system not set up in such a way that we only had a choice between Trump and Clinton, Trump probably wouldn't be President.

---

Use what is abundant and build to last

Tom Kalbfus

Banned

Registered: 2006-08-16

Posts: 4,401

Re: Election Meddling

Well we didn't, we also had Jill Stein for the Green Party and Gary Johnson for the Libertarian Party, they gave people choices to vote for other that Hillary Clinton, because she was such a liar that even many liberal people couldn't stomach her. if you wanted a woman President, you could have voted for Jill Stein. Gary Johnson wasn't much competition for Trump and the Trump people weren't that much interested in legalizing Marijuana. Gary Johnson was in many ways just another liberal regarding foreign policy, so there were three candidates vying for the same pot of voters, people who were skeptical about America, and if they couldn't tolerate Hillary's dishonesty, there were two other candidates they could have voted for.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Tom, the Green party & libertarian candidates at under 3% are not candidates for the election...thats a joke....you had other GOP and Dem with much better chances but they are not allowed it would seem to be on the ballots once there respective parties have chosen. Lets call them the alternative fact candidates and let them run....

Thank you kbd512 for your well writen responses to Rob and myself as thats the real discusion points as it gets to the heart of what is america and what is not. I need time to read them in order to give a good response...

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Devin Nunes actions the day before his announcement that he saw information suggesting that communications of then-President-elect Donald Trump and his advisers may have been swept up in surveillance of other foreign nationals. The attorney General Jeff Sessions was forced to recuse himself from the Russia investigation and Nunes' actions mean he can't conduct an impartial investigation into potential Trump-Russia ties either. He should do likewise after running to anyone that was not part of the congressional panel about what was seen. Devin Nunes Met Source On White House Grounds Day Before Claiming Trump Team Was Surveilled. Nunes met the source on White House grounds in order to view sensitive information in a “secure location,”. The House Intelligence Committee chairman’s allegations about the Obama administration’s spying operations keep getting weirder.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nun … 2eaab61087?

....The wikileaks is also guarding its side of the involvement as well, distancing itself from longtime Donald Trump associate Roger Stone. Talking To Guccifer 2.0, Doesn’t Mean I Colluded With Russians On Election. No you broke the law with regards to hacking collusion which is still a crime....During a speech in Florida last August, after Wikileaks printed hacked DNC emails, Stone said he had “communicated” with Assange and predicted that more documents would be leaked in an “October surprise.”  Which is knowing the facts of what you have done and that is collusion....

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Rex Tillerson May Be in Hot Water Over ExxonMobil Emails

Decades ago, Exxon's own scientists concluded that carbon dioxide emissions, an inevitable byproduct of burning fossil fuels, are causing climate change. Yet the company buried those findings and instead funded pseudo-scientific studies purporting to deny or downplay legitimate science.

We have alsp seen the protests in Russian now the the shoe is on the other foot they do not like it... Why Russian protests are making the Kremlin rethink 2018 presidential elections

Then again the Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Charles Grassley Wants To Know Who Ordered Trump Dossier reportedly has compromising information on Trump, including on his sexual escapades, financial dealings and alleged collusion with Russia.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,856

Re: Election Meddling

SpaceNut,

Anyone with a modicum of knowledge about how intelligence and law enforcement services work will tell you that they can and will simply lie to your face about what they're actually doing, if they're ever asked, if you're the target of their investigation.  Our government was indirectly surveilling President Trump, his campaign staff, and his transition team.  President Trump may think he's "special" in that regard, but Snowden illustrated for all the world to see that he is not.  President Obama directly ordering surveillance of President Trump is a stretch to be sure.  However, it'd pretty much be a waste of time and effort if the collected intelligence information wasn't provided to the executive.  I honestly don't care if President Obama directly ordered surveillance of President Trump or not.

If you just happen to surveil every person the President-elect talks to, meets, or otherwise communicates with, then you can call that whatever you want, but you're effectively surveilling the President-elect.  That's the only way that our government has any clue about what did or did not happen during President Trump's election campaign.  Lest anyone think the paper trail was overlooked, the IRS and FBI always "follow the money".  Anyone who believes otherwise is exercising enough mental gymnastics to qualify as a special olympian.  The intelligences services simply didn't find anything and stated that in reports and briefings provided to Congress.

If you have any actual evidence that Roger Stone broke any laws, then you need to provide that to the FBI since they're investigating the matter.  In case you were not aware, talking to someone who is a criminal is not a crime.  Feel free to work yourself up over the fact that Secretary Clinton lost the election, but at the end of the day Secretary Clinton lost because she was a poor candidate.

These articles you keep posting are every bit as evidence-free as the front page stories from The National Inquirer.  If you have any actual evidence of malfeasance, then post it.  I'm sure the House Intelligence Oversight Committee would like a copy as well.  If all you have are personal beliefs and media articles from partisan political organizations masquerading as news media, then I'll treat it with the same seriousness as the aforementioned tabloid stories.  I have no problems retracting statements and apologizing if I'm wrong, but thus far there is either no evidence to support your claims or no actual law that was violated.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,856

Re: Election Meddling

Rex Tillerson May Be in Hot Water Over ExxonMobil Emails

Decades ago, Exxon's own scientists concluded that carbon dioxide emissions, an inevitable byproduct of burning fossil fuels, are causing climate change. Yet the company buried those findings and instead funded pseudo-scientific studies purporting to deny or downplay legitimate science.

SpaceNut,

Since the climate changers' own climate models don't agree with their own data, all conclusions up to this point are pseudo-scientific.  The people who created the climate models and collected the data are either unable to accurately measure temperature data or they've no clue about what the data means, thus the models are invalid.  Either way, science is not democratic.  If 99 out of 100 people agree that the Earth is flat, the physical world doesn't become a dinner plate to suit their personal beliefs.  That 1 person who thinks the Earth is round is still correct.

Unfortunately for the eco warriors, the rest of the world doesn't care about climate change.  If the US stopped using all fossil fuels tomorrow but the rest of the world kept consuming more fossil fuels every day, then the result would be every bit as effective as taking a leak on a blow torch.  The climate change calamity is simply another manufactured political issue to kill our economy.

We have alsp seen the protests in Russian now the the shoe is on the other foot they do not like it... Why Russian protests are making the Kremlin rethink 2018 presidential elections

Good.  Let 'em protest.  The busier Russia becomes in dealing with their own people and their own poor governance decisions, the fewer ill effects they can cause to the rest of the world.

Then again the Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Charles Grassley Wants To Know Who Ordered Trump Dossier reportedly has compromising information on Trump, including on his sexual escapades, financial dealings and alleged collusion with Russia.

More evidence-free claims from a partisan political propaganda organization?

Tom Kalbfus

Banned

Registered: 2006-08-16

Posts: 4,401

Re: Election Meddling

Devin Nunes actions the day before his announcement that he saw information suggesting that communications of then-President-elect Donald Trump and his advisers may have been swept up in surveillance of other foreign nationals. The attorney General Jeff Sessions was forced to recuse himself from the Russia investigation and Nunes' actions mean he can't conduct an impartial investigation into potential Trump-Russia ties either. He should do likewise after running to anyone that was not part of the congressional panel about what was seen.

Why is it important to keep the United States President in the dark about what is now his own executive branch spying on him? I don't think it is Congress's job to spy on the President and keep secrets about that from him. You are forgetting Donald Trump is the Commander in chief and president of the United States, and runs the executive branch of the government, there should be no secrets kept from him if he is to properly run it! Whatever secret operations there were in the past, including against him, he should have access to and be made aware of. Do you believe in a rogue government! Should the Bureaucrats be running the government and not our elected officials? Congress doesn't run the Executive Branch, there is nothing that the executive branch has done that Congress should be made aware of and not the President! If anyone should not have been President it was Barack Obama, he had contacts with various Communists, not Russians mind you but actual Communists! He met with Fidel Castro for God's sake! If meeting with the Russian Ambassador is a crime, then surely meeting with Fidel Castro also must be a crime!

Devin Nunes Met Source On White House Grounds Day Before Claiming Trump Team Was Surveilled. Nunes met the source on White House grounds in order to view sensitive information in a “secure location,”. The House Intelligence Committee chairman’s allegations about the Obama administration’s spying operations keep getting weirder.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nun … 2eaab61087?

....The wikileaks is also guarding its side of the involvement as well, distancing itself from longtime Donald Trump associate Roger Stone. Talking To Guccifer 2.0, Doesn’t Mean I Colluded With Russians On Election. No you broke the law with regards to hacking collusion which is still a crime....During a speech in Florida last August, after Wikileaks printed hacked DNC emails, Stone said he had “communicated” with Assange and predicted that more documents would be leaked in an “October surprise.”  Which is knowing the facts of what you have done and that is collusion....

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,856

Re: Election Meddling

GW,

What you really stated is that you get editorialized content, no matter which media outlet you frequent.  The only difference seems to be the specific personal biases of the editors or their corporate executives.  Evidence is not democratic, even if legal interpretations of evidence are by consensus.  During this last election cycle, every major news media outlet decided to engage in political partisanship instead of reporting independently verifiable information.  There wouldn't be much to sensationalize if they just reported on what each candidate said or did, rather than substituting their own interpretations.

I don't need anyone's opinion on a legal or investigative matter who wasn't directly involved.  If I only have one opinion from someone involved, then all I have is a data point.  The opinions of people who either know nothing or claim to know something without presenting any evidence are utterly worthless, apart from whatever entertainment value they may be to political partisans who want their personal beliefs reinforced by overpaid cheerleaders.

Thus far, I've seen nothing but evidence-free, and therefore fact-free claims, from every major media outlet (CBS, CNN, Fox, NBC, etc) about President Trump.  If they actually have something more than their own partisan claims based on non-existent evidence from anonymous sources, then just present that evidence to the rest of us so we can know whatever it is that they claim to know.  The only thing I'm not hearing that I want to hear is, "Here's our evidence."  Any statement that starts with "Our sources told us..." (unless the source was directly involved and provides their name), "I think...", or "I believe..." is immediately suspect in politics.

Personal opinions about someone else are fine and dandy, if stated as such.  If you start making claims about someone else committing a crime, then you'd better be prepared to back it up with evidence.  Without evidence, opinions are likely to be every bit as valid as what you'd find printed in a tabloid.  If the judge only cared about evidence or lack of evidence, then this case that the Democrats say they have against President Trump would get thrown out of court in less time than it took to read off the docket and charges.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics. Trump's business network reached alleged Russian mobsters and all of this is factural not fake news.....With the devil in the details are all hidden in but the House GOP blocks effort by Democrats to obtain Trump's taxes and with ..... hindering the investigative process as the truth is about to be found out... House panel’s Russia probe effectively put on hold effectively shielding Trump.....Devin Nunes Vows To ‘Never’ Reveal Source Of White House Leak

The other day the company showed Trump in a cab after he had made a deal with them but in the end this is the results Layoffs Set To Begin At Indiana Factory Despite Trump Tweet, Promises The president said he would stop this kind of thing from happening. Trump made saving jobs for blue collar workers a centerpiece of his successful campaign and yet all there seems to be are more job losses with each signing of the pen.....

Terraformer

Member

From: The Fortunate Isles

Registered: 2007-08-27

Posts: 3,906

Website

Re: Election Meddling

As far as I can tell, you can't even greet a Russian person, if you're in the administration, without your name appearing in the papers the following day alongside claims that you're a Russian stooge.

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Use what is abundant and build to last

Tom Kalbfus

Banned

Registered: 2006-08-16

Posts: 4,401

Re: Election Meddling

That accounts for the multiple bankrups....and restarts......oh wait its probably his other connections as Trump's business network reached Russian mobsters to expand his real estate developments over the years, Donald Trump, his company and partners repeatedly turned to wealthy Russians and oligarchs from former Soviet republics — several allegedly connected to organized crime. Trump has been linked to at least 10 wealthy former Soviet businessmen with alleged ties to criminal organizations or money laundering.

I hope you like your internet privacy but its gone with the GOP's most recent work.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/29/15100 … -fire-sale

The 265 members of Congress who sold you out to ISPs, and how much it cost to buy them, They betrayed you for chump change...they voted to reverse a landmark FCC privacy rule that opens the door for ISPs to sell customer data.

General Electric CEO Jeff Immelt says President Donald Trump’s imagination is at work if he doesn’t believe in climate change science or the Paris agreement. Taking aim at Trump’s latest executive order rolling back Obama-era energy regulations, which was signed Tuesday, Immelt said the company’s incorporation of green technology in response to “well accepted” climate change science has had a demonstrable effect both on environmental protection on improving company profits.

This is no way to treat someone that works for the people and not just being in the party.... as Rep. Mark Sanford: Trump threatened to go after me to win my vote on health care

President Trump threatened to run a primary challenger against him in 2018 if he voted against the Republicans’ proposed replacement for Obamacare.

You know there is an election in 2020 where Trump himself can also be primary challenged! if Trump alienates his conservative base, that base can challenge him in the next Presidential election, it was the conservatives that won him the election after all, as they did not want Hillary, in 2020 they will have other choices. Trump by moderating is sponging up some moderate Democratic voters, you know the kind that Democratic Politicians have ignored in the lurch to the left during the Obama years! I think if Trump continues in this direction, then his main challenger in the 2020 election will come from the political right, not the left! The Democrats will have destroyed themselves, they are acting as pure obstructionists in Congress, no matter what Trump is doing, they are opposing him. Voters will start to wonder why they elect these Democrats if all they are doing is opposing Trump in every trivial matter, how does this help them. Trump is obviously not the "Fascist" the Democrats were saying he was during the election! Now that Trump is President, we are learning about the true Trump, and he is not Benito Mussolini, they Democrats basically lied in their attempt to prevent him from getting elected, and that effort failed, so now their past lies are staring them back in the face! People are learning not to trust the Democrats. Without Democratic opposition, I believe the natural course would be for the Republican Party to split into two parties, one party will retain the name of the "Republican Party", and it looks like that portion of the party will follow in the tradition of Lincoln and be the liberal party for this future era, {The Democrats having made themselves too radical to be acceptable in American politics) the other faction of the Republican Party will split off and become the Tea Party, an official Political Party, it will field its own candidates and Run against Republican candidates put up by the more liberal Republican Party. The Democrats will be left out in the cold along side their comrades in the American Communist Party, the Libertarian Party, the Green Party, the Working Families Party, and other third Parties that most people aren't even aware of.

The congressional investigation into Trump ally Roger Stone is not answering questions and won’t identify his WikiLeaks contact — even to Congress claiming to be a journalist and we are to take his word on what was said their communications are not about the Russia probes....

Your assuming there is something there to investigate, what if there is nothing? The Trump Administration hasn't had a lot of time to do much, there is not much to investigate! This is nothing but a witch hunt! It will hurt the Democrats as much as Joe McCathy's investigations hurt the Republicans, if not more.

Michael Flynn wants immunity in exchange for agreeing to be questioned as part of ongoing probes into possible contacts between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and Russia. Flynn is facing "claims of treason and vicious innuendo" is factoring into his negotiations with the committees.

The salient point is that talking to Russian citizens is not illegal, I've talked to a few myself. If we are to outlaw conversations with Russians, we are no better than Stalinists, because during the Stalin Era, Russians were often arrested for talking to Americans!

Florida GOP Sen. Marco Rubio said hackers using an Internet provider from an unknown location in Russia tried twice to access internal information from former members of his presidential campaign team, including as recently as Wednesday.

You should know better than to trust the word of politicians who may harbor grudges against Donald Trump, Senator John McCain in particular seems to worry about who's in and who's out rather than what's good for the American People. I have very little interest I his personal vendetta against Donald Trump!

Then there is the leaving of position and firings that have and are continuing as Top aide to President Donald Trump leaves administration

Remember that Trump was going to create jobs and tried to seal the deal with several companies with false hope and promisses now ‘There’s not a hope alive for us’: A factory Trump targeted begins its move to Mexico The moving of companies even after all the executive orders to remove regulations, it still has not changed how we need to do business...its only done more harm...

Economic growth is picking up, you just have to give it a few more months for it to be apparent, after all you gave Obama 8 years without much to show for it!

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Did Obama Blow It on the Russian Hacking?

Top White House aide Lisa Monaco is one of the few officials to go on the record about how the Obama team handled the hacks. By going public before the election with evidence that the Kremlin was trying to help Donald Trump , the Obama team feared it would be accused of intervening to help Hillary Clinton. So it mostly kept quiet despite intense lobbying from fellow Democrats to say more before the voting.

Obama Hand-Delivered Russia/Trump Documents to Senior Intel Committee Members Before Leaving Office

In a bombshell report blown wide open by NBC News, we learned today that President Obama “hand-carried” a list of documents to the Senate Intelligence Committeed related to Trump/Russian communications during the presidential campaign.

According to NBC News, the fear was that once the Trump Administration took office, the key documents would disappear or be destroyed. To prevent this from happening, Obama had individual serial numbers assigned to each document. This list of documents and their serial numbers was placed directly in the hands of senior members of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Veteran Republican Judge Is Calling for Trump’s Immediate Impeachment

Mark Painter is a retired judge. His 30+ years of service includes appointments to the 1st District Court of Appeals and  the United Nations Appeals Tribunal. And Painter is a Republican. Trump’s administration quickly collapse because of ineptitude and poor character, after watching how he claims he has unchecked power, after watching him function as a child, and after witnessing his surrogates spew lie after lie, he has already come to the conclusion that this guy has to go.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Election Meddling

Tom the business man as president does not work as he can not make a profit for america nor himself as he works for the people and if he was able to he could then remove all taxation to which that is never happening. The president position is more like one of being an accountant being able to balance the books for what the federal government costs to what is paid out to its people versus what is gain via taxation.

The congressmen that are forming groups are not working for the people either let along there own states that elected them. Voting along party lines is also just as stupid as that is not the will of the people either. So expect another upheaval by the people in the next elections which will change the balance of power once more.....

RobertDyck

Moderator

From: Winnipeg, Canada

Registered: 2002-08-20

Posts: 7,934

Website

Re: Election Meddling

You know Tom, I posted before that we have to accept the fact Trump is president. Try to work with him. That makes sense, but your rants can only result in rabid opposition. Also realize Trump is still recovering from a massive loss from years ago. The reason he doesn't pay income tax is a massive carry-forward loss from 1990-something. He's not as rich as he claims to be, and has to find a lot of money to pay his debts. And the election was extremely expensive. Any businessman would treat that kind of spending as an investment, and demand at minimum recovery of said investment. That means finding a way to make money from being president. And not a little money, enough to pay for everything he spent during the election campaign. That's a lot. Making personal profit from being president is highly illegal, but a business perspective will demand it. Government ethics and business ethics are in direct conflict.

I'm not sure what will happen to the GOP after this. Will there be a GOP after Trump? But for now, he's President. He did sign a NASA reauthorization bill. Could we convince Trump to kick ass over SLS like he did with F-35? Get ULA to get it done faster, cheaper, and more reliable. And for God's sake, stop delaying SpaceX Dragon v2 behind Orion. The Orion is over priced and over weight, let SpaceX go first.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2017-04-05 21:15:04)