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#751 2017-03-19 06:13:46

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

RobertDyck wrote:

17021342_755128901278814_5802556401113592127_n.jpg?oh=976a0a63be603acdb82e1326007bfef7&oe=593187EA

Those two in the middle picture aren't Republicans, the one on the left is Debbie Wasserman Shultz, I recognize her face! We're 20 trillion in debt because of the Democrats, the Republicans are only beginning to get to work, but they find it easier just to let the Democrats destroy the country as the have been doing. Republicans or at least the career Republicans don't like this responsibility, they do like their jobs and their perks however, so they won't willingly vacate their seats so some real Republicans can get to work on our Nation's problems

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2017-03-19 06:14:16)

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#752 2017-03-19 06:28:12

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

GW Johnson wrote:

Hey,  somebody unplugged the sewer for the politics!

Keep the flushed amounts smaller,  and maybe it won't get plugged up/shut down again!

I see I'm not the only one to notice the analog to 1932 Germany.

At this point in time,  the evident alternative to the con man is just another con man.  Trump stole the angry-voter insurgency role from Cruz,  being a better rabble-rouser. 

That leaves Cruz as just a Trump "mini-me".  He's just as much a con man,  too.  He has no plans other than to exercise personal power and to shut the government down if he doesn't get what he wants (something he has already done).

We don't need either one of them.

GW

This is so far from the reality of Donald Trump, here you are trying to paint him as a Nazi, this is all fake news, 99% of all of this was made up by the Democrats and distributed by the media in order to smear Trump, and it didn't work! Trump is President, and we are not finding an "Adolf Hitler" in the White House! The Democrats and the Media's attempt to smear Trump has failed, and now the truth I coming out, and hopefully the Media will pay for this!

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#753 2017-03-19 08:40:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Politics

Here's how the budget would affect key medical and scientific agencies:

CDC: The budget "reforms" CDC with a $500 million block grant to states. The White House says the idea is to allow states flexibility. "Devastating impacts on state asthma programs, tobacco prevention and cessation and tuberculosis control.

FDA: The budget doesn't say much about the FDA but specifically doubles user fees — money paid by pharmaceutical companies to speed approvals, from $1 billion to $2 billion.

NIH: NIH had just gotten a big boost in the budget resolution Congress passed in December — a 6.6 percent funding increase to $32 billion. Trump's budget takes $6 billion of that back out, and eliminates the Fogarty International Center, which coordinates international medical research. Pretending that Ebola doesn't exist and that it doesn't come into our country.

In Appalachia, Trump's proposed budget has people worried

Trump's budget proposal has alarmed much of the region, including longtime Republican Congressman Hal Rogers, who represents the mountainous eastern Kentucky coal region where Trump won every county, a first for a Republican presidential candidate.

"I am disappointed that many of the reductions and eliminations proposed in the President's skinny budget are draconian, careless and counterproductive," Rogers said.

SO with the AG's gone we now know whom will be getting fired next as Former dairy farmer leads Trump-Russia investigation from the rural Central Valley of California is running one of the most scrutinized, complex and politically fraught congressional investigations in recent memory.

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#754 2017-03-19 11:13:55

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,034
Website

Re: Politics

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Those two in the middle picture aren't Republicans, the one on the left is Debbie Wasserman Shultz, I recognize her face! We're 20 trillion in debt because of the Democrats, the Republicans are only beginning to get to work, but they find it easier just to let the Democrats destroy the country as the have been doing. Republicans or at least the career Republicans don't like this responsibility, they do like their jobs and their perks however, so they won't willingly vacate their seats so some real Republicans can get to work on our Nation's problems

OMG! Are you really that stupid? The first picture criticizes Democrats for criticizing Republicans for doing something trivial. The second criticizes Republicans for criticizing Democrats for doing something trivial. The third picture says the rest of us are concerned about a very real and very serious problem.

You can't blame the debt on either party. The debt has been growing for so long that I don't even know when the US federal government was debt free. Ronald Regan started massive debt with his Star Wars program. He left with $3 trillion debt. Trillion, with a "T". Bill Clinton just balanced the budget for his last year in office, but exaggerated. He claimed surpluses in his last 3 years of office; reality was 1998 and 1999 were still in deficit, and the surplus of year 2000 was much smaller than he claimed, so ridiculously small that it was practically non-existent. George W. Bush massively and irresponsibly over-spent on military, throwing America back into massive deficits. Barack Obama failed to slash military spending, but instead went on a massive domestic spending program, making the deficit even worse. Both parties are to blame.

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#755 2017-03-19 12:38:00

GW Johnson
Member
From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 2,712
Website

Re: Politics

Call it "Tex" instead of "Texas".  We sent too many Tea Party asses to DC. 

I have never seen anybody misinterpret and distort things to back up ridiculous political positions as Tom.  He's actually worse than Team Trump's propagandists. 

GW


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#756 2017-03-19 16:26:39

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,034
Website

Re: Politics

C2zzEFrUQAATG1k.jpg

C7Lo08eVsAEc92u.jpg

1209toonwasserman.jpg

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#757 2017-03-19 18:04:15

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Politics

Trumps closest are full of the dispicable as another top Trump Adviser Faces Calls For Resignation After Reports Of Ties To Nazi-Aligned Group. Sebastian Gorka proudly wears a medal from a Hungarian group that collaborated with Nazis during World War II. The group, known as Vitézi Rend in Hungarian, collaborated with the Nazi government during World War II, according to the State Department. Members of the group are ineligible for American visas born in the United Kingdom, “falsified his naturalization application or otherwise illegally procured his citizenship” by failing to disclose his membership in the banned Hungarian group.

This is not the first time that Trump and members have been likened to being part of the Nazi-Themed, which we did see during his election campaigning from those that heard make america great as a call for make america white. A Billboard is to Stay Up As Long As He’s President, Owner Says. The explosive sign, recently erected in Arizona, features dollar-sign swastikas and mushroom clouds.

58ce8d842c00002000fef2cd.png?cache=cscncno9ez

Another part of that capaigning heard make America white....A small group of protesters flew a large Confederate flag from the top of a parking garage next to the arena hosting two men's NCAA Tournament games.

Then again with all the Russian flap of hacking and so much more its should be no surprise that that ship is back.... Russian Spy Ship Back on East Coast but Making No Waves in Washington

Then everyweek he is down to Margo to vacation and we pay the bill for his stay at his own place.... How Much Does Trump Actually Work At Mar-A-Lago? Maybe Not So Much, Staff is cagey about how much time president spends golfing on pricey trips to his resort president’s fifth trip to Mar-a-Lago in eight weeks in the White House each trip to Mar-a-Lago costs taxpayers at least $3 million. (Protecting wife Melania and son Baron back in New York has been estimated to cost an additional $1 million a day.) But then again Secret Service Racks Up Bills for Trump Kids' Trips. Next Stop Aspen? There are no hotel bills for Aspen in the Federal Procurement Data System yet, but the database does show a $12,208.25 contract by the Secret Service with Aspen Valley Ski/Snowboard Club for "recreational good rental/ski equipment lease" between the dates of March 10 and March 23.
    $53,155.25 during Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Tiffany Trump's business trip to Vancouver in late February.
    $16,738.36 during Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump's business trip to Dubai in mid-February.
    $97,830 for Eric Trump's business trip to Uruguay in early January.
Sure is nice to spend americans money... not....

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#758 2017-03-19 21:12:11

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,179

Re: Politics

SpaceNut,

We don't need federal funding for special interests programs.  If you feel strongly about particular causes, then give your own money to those causes.  All special interest programs should be locally funded by municipal or state governments and charitable contributions from private citizens who are part of the community.  Every layer of bureaucracy added siphons off money for "administrative costs", which is a quaint way of saying the "charitable" contributions of tax payers is used to line someone else's pockets.

Every year, like most other Americans, I give money to charitable causes I consider worthwhile.  I don't claim charitable contributions on my taxes.  Every time we make a donation to goodwill, they constantly ask us whether or not we want a form to file with the IRS.  Perhaps other Americans differ on this matter, but I don't want anything from them.  When I think of charity, it think of freely giving my time and/or money with no expectation or desire for remuneration.  To my way of thinking, that's real charity.  My tax money, on the other hand, is not for special interest programs or charity.  There will always be poor people in every society.  If you truly care about the poor, then volunteer your own time and money to help them.

The new "State Criminal Alien Assistance Program" is called deportation.  ICE assists illegal aliens, all of which are criminals, by deporting them back to where they came from.  The tax payers' have already paid for their trial-by-jury.  Their countries of origin can pay for incarceration costs, if they so choose.  I don't care if we have to put illegal aliens on planes to take them to east outer Mongolia.  If they didn't come here legally, then take them back to where they came from.

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#759 2017-03-20 04:57:28

kbd512
Member
Registered: 2015-01-02
Posts: 1,179

Re: Politics

Rob,

The real problem to address is that every single US President since WWII has added to the debt, irrespective of which political party they belong to, without exception.  Apart from the US military, which you constantly advocate taking more money from, there has been no decrease of our federal government since WWII.  Our federal government only expands and consumes more money and natural resources as time marches on, despite the fact that there is no demonstrated need for half of our federal government's workforce.

It's crystal clear to me that liberals have no desire to fix any of our problems.  The only activities they seem readily willing to engage in are propaganda campaigns against their political opponents, spending us into oblivion with expansive and unsustainable entitlement programs, importing economic (illegal alien) and religious (muslim) subversives, and rendering our military ineffective, presumably so that an outside force can complete our destruction.  All the political propaganda that you and SpaceNut constantly post vividly illustrates that you have no answers for any our problems.  If you did, you'd spend all your time making reasoned arguments about why it is that we need more unsustainable entitlement programs, why it is that we need to grant citizenship to any foreigner who crosses our border, and why it is that you think that the Russians and Chinese won't invade our country or your country after we de-fund our military.

We've already tried maintaining a simple self defense force similar to the force Japan presently has.  That resulted in WWII and the deaths of about 3% of the world's population when the human filth of this world felt emboldened to rape, rob, and murder their neighbors because there was no one there who could stop them.  Apart from whatever revisionist history you choose to believe in, Britain and Canada aren't the reason why Europeans didn't speak German (briefly) and then Russian.  And that'd be why we're not taking military advice from foreigners who never served a day in the military and haven't the slightest inkling of what total war entails.

The utility of and capacity for economic sustainment is finite.  Expending more resources on special interest programs that make you happy is not an answer to our problems.  Any belief to the contrary is merely a continuation of the nonsense that contributed mightily to the economic predicament we find ourselves in today.

Governance - A government that governs best is not a government that governs the least nor governs the most.  A government that governs most effectively and efficiently is a government that governs best.  Neither political party has learned this.  That said, expansive bureaucracies combined with a plethora of special interest groups do not contribute to effectiveness or efficiency.  The evidence for that is readily apparent to anyone who is not a political ideologue.

Education - Our non-educational system is what it is because subversives require a plentiful supply of useful idiots that are easily manipulated.  Easily manipulated peoples can be, and frequently are, tools for unscrupulous people to use to rape, rob, and murder other people.  In this country, there is a near uniform effort to prevent people from thinking for themselves.

Health Care - Apart from enforcing ethics guidelines for corporations to follow, government has no business involving itself in private matters between patients and health care professionals.  If insurance companies or health care services providers fail to adhere to ethics guidelines, then and only then should the government get involved, and only to the extent required to correct unethical behavior.

Infrastructure - The failure of our federal government to properly disburse funding for critical conveyances and utilities once again illustrates why no political influences should be permitted to affect how or where tax money is allocated for public works.  The only people who should decide how funding is allocated should be engineers who are accountable to the public safety agencies.

Housing - Government bears complete responsibility for royally screwing up this sector of the economy.  Apart from enforcing ethics guidelines, government has no business here, either.  If the government hadn't forced banks to grant loans to people the banks knew or should have known couldn't pay, then the last recession would have been far less severe than it was.

Energy - With all the trillions of dollars of tax money given to our federal government, there have been no serious attempts to research, develop, and implement the most power dense and sustainable energy production technology available since the 1950's.  Thus far, that'd be nuclear fission.  Nobody alive in America today who isn't ready to retire should know what the hell a coal or gas power plant is.  Solar panels and wind farms are a sick joke, by way of comparison.  If the anti-nuclear nutwhacks weren't allowed to have their way, solar panels or wind farms would be off-grid power for people living in deserts or near oceans.

Military - As much as it pains me to acknowledge it, the clowns in DC (inexcusably poorly) run our military.  However, we have to have a clear command structure and the Office of the President represents the top of that structure.  Thankfully, some politicians realize that defunding our military can, and has, caused the type of destructive global warfare that threatens all of humanity.  If our military power had not been abused by President Bush (Afghanistan and Iraq) and President Obama (Libya and Syria), there'd be far fewer and less severe economic effects and far fewer civilian casualties from the employment of our military.  Apart from immediate defense against military attacks upon our people, no one person should ever have authority to take our country to war.

Foreign Policy - Our allies need to act like our allies and abide by their defense agreements.  If our allies fail to do that, then we need to revisit our military alliances with those countries.  Our enemies need only understand that we will do whatever it takes to defend ourselves and our allies.  If our allies spend less on their defense, then we'll inevitably spend more.  If our allies want us to spend less on defense, then they should start honoring their defense spending agreements.

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#760 2017-03-20 08:31:04

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

SpaceNut wrote:

Here's how the budget would affect key medical and scientific agencies:

CDC: The budget "reforms" CDC with a $500 million block grant to states. The White House says the idea is to allow states flexibility. "Devastating impacts on state asthma programs, tobacco prevention and cessation and tuberculosis control.

FDA: The budget doesn't say much about the FDA but specifically doubles user fees — money paid by pharmaceutical companies to speed approvals, from $1 billion to $2 billion.

NIH: NIH had just gotten a big boost in the budget resolution Congress passed in December — a 6.6 percent funding increase to $32 billion. Trump's budget takes $6 billion of that back out, and eliminates the Fogarty International Center, which coordinates international medical research. Pretending that Ebola doesn't exist and that it doesn't come into our country.

In Appalachia, Trump's proposed budget has people worried

Trump's budget proposal has alarmed much of the region, including longtime Republican Congressman Hal Rogers, who represents the mountainous eastern Kentucky coal region where Trump won every county, a first for a Republican presidential candidate.

"I am disappointed that many of the reductions and eliminations proposed in the President's skinny budget are draconian, careless and counterproductive," Rogers said.

SO with the AG's gone we now know whom will be getting fired next as Former dairy farmer leads Trump-Russia investigation from the rural Central Valley of California is running one of the most scrutinized, complex and politically fraught congressional investigations in recent memory.

That is why it is difficult to cut the budget for most politicians, Donald Trump however has not developed those political instincts not to offend anyone, he thinks like a businessman, he makes the decision on what needs to be cut, and not everyone is going to like the cuts he makes. Unlike most politicians, Donald Trump isn't there to have a career, the perks and privileges of the office of President are something he can replicate himself, he is President to get something done, something that he feels most other politicians won't do of their own accord. It is much easier for the average politician to deficit spend than to offend potential voters by making budget cuts that they don't like. Donald Trump doesn't care, he is not thinking like a politician, he knows he has at least 4 years, and he needs to get something done in those 4 years, and he wants to get something done in those four years, if the people reelect him fine, if they don't, then he had better have what he intended completed by the time those four years are over with, if he gets another four years, that is a bonus but he shouldn't tailor his actions so as to get reelected by avoiding the hard stuff. I think its refreshing that he is willing to make some unpopular decisions in order to cut the budget, that to me is a good sign! Also it is clear to be that spending a billion dollars on something will not always get you your money's worth. Trump is going to try to do stuff cheaply rather than trying to "create jobs" by throwing taxpayer money around! Growth is created by money people don't pay in taxes and invest rather than on what government spends. The government doesn't care if it throws you money away creating a useless job that doesn't contribute to the economy, it can always reach into your pocket and grab more after all! Spending money to directly create jobs for government workers is bad policy and will wreck the economy in the long run!

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#761 2017-03-20 08:48:45

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

RobertDyck wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Those two in the middle picture aren't Republicans, the one on the left is Debbie Wasserman Shultz, I recognize her face! We're 20 trillion in debt because of the Democrats, the Republicans are only beginning to get to work, but they find it easier just to let the Democrats destroy the country as the have been doing. Republicans or at least the career Republicans don't like this responsibility, they do like their jobs and their perks however, so they won't willingly vacate their seats so some real Republicans can get to work on our Nation's problems

OMG! Are you really that stupid? The first picture criticizes Democrats for criticizing Republicans for doing something trivial. The second criticizes Republicans for criticizing Democrats for doing something trivial. The third picture says the rest of us are concerned about a very real and very serious problem.

You can't blame the debt on either party. The debt has been growing for so long that I don't even know when the US federal government was debt free. Ronald Regan started massive debt with his Star Wars program. He left with $3 trillion debt. Trillion, with a "T". Bill Clinton just balanced the budget for his last year in office, but exaggerated. He claimed surpluses in his last 3 years of office; reality was 1998 and 1999 were still in deficit, and the surplus of year 2000 was much smaller than he claimed, so ridiculously small that it was practically non-existent. George W. Bush massively and irresponsibly over-spent on military, throwing America back into massive deficits. Barack Obama failed to slash military spending, but instead went on a massive domestic spending program, making the deficit even worse. Both parties are to blame.

50% of the national debt rests solely on the shoulders of the Obama Administration and the democrats in congress and the feeble republicans that let the Democrats walk all over them, the Media shares a blame portion of the blame by stacking the cards against the Republicans in Congress with their reporting. When Obama shut down the government because he wasn't getting everything he wanted from the Republican Majority in Congress, the Media portrayed it as the Republicans in Congress shutting down government, this is when Ted Cruz led the filibuster to shut down spending for Obamacare, the Republican leadership quickly gave in due to pressure from the Media, which was under the control of the Democrats. The Media also arranged to nominate Donald Trump as the Republican candidate in 2016, most of the American People weren't paying much attention until the general election started, most Americans do not vote in primaries, so it was easy for he media to influence those who do! Most Americans vote between two candidates that the two major parties give them on the first Tuesday of November, they don't typically participate in the selection process of those two candidates presented. Now the second 50% was primarily the fault of the Democrats, and the weak limbed Republicans who are only in Congress because they want a job. The first 50% of the debt, that is the first $10 trillion of it was about 50% the responsibility of the Republicans and 50% the responsibility of the Democrats, but the Obama Administration doubled the debt in only 8 years, and he was mostly interested in borrowing and spending, and raising taxes so he looks responsible while doing so, the only thing he cut was defense spending, but he was willing to give the Iranians billions of dollars and $100 million per person for four American hostages he wanted released. Obama sent billions of dollars to the Third World at US taxpayers expense!

You really think George W. Bush overspent on the military? I take that to mean we won the war on terrorism but we just kept spending money on the military afterwards, is that what you mean by overspending? Did FDR overspend on fighting World War II? Was there a cheaper way to do it? Are you unhappy with the results? I do know one thing though, there wasn't a Cold War between the US and Russia when Obama was first sworn into office in 2009, that is entirely on him, and Trump inherits Obama's Cold War because of the actions and inactions of the Obama Administration that allowed us to get to this point! So now the Democrats are pretending to be Cold War Hawks in this new Cold War that began during Obama's Administration and all the while they advocated cutting the defense budget as the World got more dangerous! Do you see something wrong with this picture?

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#762 2017-03-20 08:59:54

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

SpaceNut wrote:

Trumps closest are full of the dispicable as another top Trump Adviser Faces Calls For Resignation After Reports Of Ties To Nazi-Aligned Group. Sebastian Gorka proudly wears a medal from a Hungarian group that collaborated with Nazis during World War II. The group, known as Vitézi Rend in Hungarian, collaborated with the Nazi government during World War II, according to the State Department. Members of the group are ineligible for American visas born in the United Kingdom, “falsified his naturalization application or otherwise illegally procured his citizenship” by failing to disclose his membership in the banned Hungarian group.

You mean they were fighting the Soviets, and thus by extension Joseph Stalin? Unforgivable! Stalin was murdering millions of people by the time Germany got around to invading that country, to many non-Jews in Eastern Europe, Hitler represented an opportunity to turn the tables on Joseph Stalin, if Hitler gave them weapons to do so, they would use them! Now lets look at Spain, the only reason Spain is not under a Communist dictatorship like Cuba's is because of the Nazi's participation in the Spanish Civil War, because of Franco and Hitler's support of him, Spaniards today get to vote in a multi-party election instead of having a pretend vote in a one-party state as the Cubans do.  Of course it all depended on the Germans losing World War II and Spain staying neutral in that conflict and making nice with the victorious allies afterwards and joining NATO.

This is not the first time that Trump and members have been likened to being part of the Nazi-Themed, which we did see during his election campaigning from those that heard make america great as a call for make america white. A Billboard is to Stay Up As Long As He’s President, Owner Says. The explosive sign, recently erected in Arizona, features dollar-sign swastikas and mushroom clouds.

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/cro … cscncno9ez

Another part of that capaigning heard make America white....A small group of protesters flew a large Confederate flag from the top of a parking garage next to the arena hosting two men's NCAA Tournament games.

Then again with all the Russian flap of hacking and so much more its should be no surprise that that ship is back.... Russian Spy Ship Back on East Coast but Making No Waves in Washington

Then everyweek he is down to Margo to vacation and we pay the bill for his stay at his own place.... How Much Does Trump Actually Work At Mar-A-Lago? Maybe Not So Much, Staff is cagey about how much time president spends golfing on pricey trips to his resort president’s fifth trip to Mar-a-Lago in eight weeks in the White House each trip to Mar-a-Lago costs taxpayers at least $3 million. (Protecting wife Melania and son Baron back in New York has been estimated to cost an additional $1 million a day.) But then again Secret Service Racks Up Bills for Trump Kids' Trips. Next Stop Aspen? There are no hotel bills for Aspen in the Federal Procurement Data System yet, but the database does show a $12,208.25 contract by the Secret Service with Aspen Valley Ski/Snowboard Club for "recreational good rental/ski equipment lease" between the dates of March 10 and March 23.
    $53,155.25 during Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Tiffany Trump's business trip to Vancouver in late February.
    $16,738.36 during Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump's business trip to Dubai in mid-February.
    $97,830 for Eric Trump's business trip to Uruguay in early January.
Sure is nice to spend americans money... not....

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#763 2017-03-20 12:15:58

Terraformer
Member
From: Lancashire
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 2,506
Website

Re: Politics

Of course, were the American political system not set up in such a way that we only had a choice between Trump and Clinton, Trump probably wouldn't be President.


"I guarantee you that at some point, everything's going to go south on you, and you're going to say, 'This is it, this is how I end.' Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work." - Mark Watney

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#764 2017-03-20 12:39:42

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

Well we didn't, we also had Jill Stein for the Green Party and Gary Johnson for the Libertarian Party, they gave people choices to vote for other that Hillary Clinton, because she was such a liar that even many liberal people couldn't stomach her. if you wanted a woman President, you could have voted for Jill Stein. Gary Johnson wasn't much competition for Trump and the Trump people weren't that much interested in legalizing Marijuana. Gary Johnson was in many ways just another liberal regarding foreign policy, so there were three candidates vying for the same pot of voters, people who were skeptical about America, and if they couldn't tolerate Hillary's dishonesty, there were two other candidates they could have voted for.

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#765 2017-03-20 17:39:03

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Politics

Tom, the Green party & libertarian candidates at under 3% are not candidates for the election...thats a joke....you had other GOP and Dem with much better chances but they are not allowed it would seem to be on the ballots once there respective parties have chosen. Lets call them the alternative fact candidates and let them run....

Thank you kbd512 for your well writen responses to Rob and myself as thats the real discusion points as it gets to the heart of what is america and what is not. I need time to read them in order to give a good response...

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#766 2017-03-20 19:59:07

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

I think the Democrats deserve to be replaced with either the Green Party of the Libertarian Party after trying to run Hillary Clinton as their candidate for President and rigging the primary so she would win! Candidates need t get back to serving the public and having ideas that work instead of demagoguery and a political machine that gets them elected no matter who they are! Bernie Sanders had an unfair contest in that primary, and that's wrong! The Democrats need to learn to be competitive and not rely so heavily on trickery propaganda and their control of the media to get them elected, and we need a more unbiased media, not the one we have now! We need a media that is mostly fair and balanced, not one that is partisan and Pro-Democrat, this yellow journalism has got to stop for the good of the country, Americans deserve to know the truth and not hear on party's propaganda only when they turn on the supposed news! Also we should be more interested in the welfare of the country than in whether the Democrats win or lose. and most of all, you need to give Donald Trump a chance to do right by the American people instead of attacking him from day one! I don't think every candidate that Trump nominates has a scandal or some skeleton in his or her closet that the media needs to expose, this level of scandal is extremely unrealistic and I think the liberal media is making this stuff up and trying to smear nominees and obstruct the Trump Administration from doing its job, rather than the media doing its job of reporting the news and not fighting to achieve specific political results that they want through propaganda and slanted biased reporting! Lets get back to the job a journalist is supposed to be doing, and they are not supposed to be politicians!

recently Chuck Schumer has been complaining that Trump wants to cut the homeland security spending for New York, and I'm thinking, well maybe Chuck Schumer should have thought of that before attacking the President from day one of his inauguration! Maybe he shouldn't have been such a booster of bringing all sorts of refugees from the middle east, who may be terrorists, if he is so concerned about homeland security!. I think Trump simply assumes that if Chuck thinks terrorism isn't a problem and that we should roll out the red carpet for Middle East refugees, then the homeland security budget becomes a target for cuts. One follows from the other, and maybe of Chuck wasn't acting like such a jerk towards Donald Trump, he could serve his constituents better!
Charles_Schumer_official_portrait.jpg

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#767 2017-03-21 00:46:50

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,034
Website

Re: Politics

Tom and kbd512: yes ever single president since WWII contributed to the debt. That doesn't make it Ok. Wednesday is Canadian federal government budget day. Right now I'm obsessed with the Canadian budget. Guess what? They're spending too much.

Yes, I said military spending has to be sustainable. The last year the US federal government had a balanced budget was year 2000. Every budget since has to be compared to that. The military and national security budget that year was $288 billion. Apply inflation from that year to today, you get $398 billion. I said you have to cut military spending to that. It would still leave you with 60% more than Russia plus China plus North Korea combined. Canada's military budget last year was CAD$19.7 billion. Canada's population is 35 million, the US has 324.7 million. The American equivalent based on population and exchange of the dollar would be $182 billion. So the US military budget I asked is still generous.

And I didn't say cut military spending alone. I pointed out the US budget for 2016 had a $427 billion deficit. So balancing the budget requires cutting $200 billion of domestic spending as well. Voters had great hopes for Barack Obama, but he spent the US into an even greater hole.

Education - I spoke with one woman who claimed West Virginia spent all their education money on football stadiums. She claims they don't intend to teach students, just keep them quiet until they're old enough to be sent into coal mines. I don't know if that's true. When I lived in Chester Virginia, in Chesterfield county outside Richmond, I read newspaper commentaries about education, and locals claimed inner city schools received the same funding per student as suburban schools. Yet inner city schools looked like a war zone. No answer why.

Housing - yea, your point is the "junk mortgage scam". You realize Congress demanded the banks find a creative way to fund the deficit, and this is what they came up with. Yes, I blame Congress. Banks aren't blameless, but they're a known evil. The source of the financial melt-down of 2008 is government deficit.

Military - you said "no one person should ever have authority to take our country to war". The Constitution of the United States says Congress has that authority. The President administers the war once declared, but only Congress can decide to go to war. This has been abused more time than I can count. Congress must defend its authority.

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#768 2017-03-21 10:15:26

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

How much did Poland spend on National Defense in 1939? Was that a sustainable Defense Budget?

RobertDyck wrote:

Yes, I said military spending has to be sustainable. The last year the US federal government had a balanced budget was year 2000. Every budget since has to be compared to that. The military and national security budget that year was $288 billion. Apply inflation from that year to today, you get $398 billion. I said you have to cut military spending to that. It would still leave you with 60% more than Russia plus China plus North Korea combined. Canada's military budget last year was CAD$19.7 billion. Canada's population is 35 million, the US has 324.7 million. The American equivalent based on population and exchange of the dollar would be $182 billion. So the US military budget I asked is still generous.

So in that case, what's wrong with Donald Trump cutting the budget of PBS and the National Endowment of the Arts? Those contribute nothing to the National Defense, and Trump needs to find money to increase the Defense Budget by $50 billion in order to undo the damage Obama wrought. I don't think we need the Federal government subsidizing art, especially such examples as Jesus on a cross in urine, and a painting of the Virgin Mary made with elephant dung, do we need the Federal government paying for that, when we still have not solved the terrorist problem?

RobertDyck wrote:

Military - you said "no one person should ever have authority to take our country to war". The Constitution of the United States says Congress has that authority. The President administers the war once declared, but only Congress can decide to go to war. This has been abused more time than I can count. Congress must defend its authority.

Sept-11-plane-grab_1987483i.jpg
What about when war comes to our country? Is the President of the United States allowed to defend the American People without the Congress giving him permission? What if instead that airplane had flown into the Capitol Building while Congress was in session, would the President have the authority to act then if given that most of Congress was killed in that attack?

There was a book written by Tom Clancy that began with that premise.

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2017-03-21 10:16:34)

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#769 2017-03-21 11:54:11

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,034
Website

Re: Politics

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

when we still have not solved the terrorist problem?

Yes you did. President Barack Obama had Osama bin Laden assassinated. And that was done wrong. He should have been captured alive, brought to the US for trial. I wanted to see a long, prolonged, televised trial. I wanted to see bin Laden in handcuffs, his beard shaved off, his hair cut in a prison crew cut, and orange prison jump suit. I wanted to see him face the families of those he killed. That would have been cathartic for the American people. But no, he was assassinated. Terrorists assassinate people, civilized countries bring perpetrators to trial. America hasn't accepted it's over.

And today we see on the news that the US has banned carry-on laptops and tablets. What!?!? That affects me. I haven't checked any baggage since 1997. I bought a bag called a "weekender", the largest bag that fits under the seat of an economy class seat. It has a central compartment for clothes, and a side compartment for laptop and papers. I haven't travelled in a couple years, but when I do I buy my ticket online, use the airport check-in kiosk to get a boarding pass, and walk straight onto the plane. When the plane arrives, I walk straight to the taxi area. I never waste time waiting in lines, never waste time at the luggage carousel. I've had my luggage lost or damaged too many times, just don't trust airlines. That means the laptop I use to make my presentation has to be in my carry-on. If I can't carry a laptop, then I can't give a presentation at a Mars Society convention. If I can't give a presentation, there's no point in me going.

This reminds me of the ban on liquids. Airport security experts have long admitted that the ban on liquids does absolutely nothing for safety. It's just "theatre", to appear to be doing something. I creates inconvenience without doing anything for safety. Just an appearance of doing something.

However, TV news stated the ban, but reading online showed a clause the talking head on TV didn't mention. This is only for jets coming from Mideast or North Africa. Oh, so this doesn't affect me. Ok.

Back to your point. How much longer is the US going to meddle in Middle East affairs? Bin Laden is now dead, but the US appears determined to create new enemies. You can't "solve the terrorist problem" when you keep creating new enemies. You keep creating your own problem.

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#770 2017-03-21 14:27:45

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

RobertDyck wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:

when we still have not solved the terrorist problem?

Yes you did. President Barack Obama had Osama bin Laden assassinated. And that was done wrong. He should have been captured alive, brought to the US for trial. I wanted to see a long, prolonged, televised trial. I wanted to see bin Laden in handcuffs, his beard shaved off, his hair cut in a prison crew cut, and orange prison jump suit. I wanted to see him face the families of those he killed. That would have been cathartic for the American people. But no, he was assassinated. Terrorists assassinate people, civilized countries bring perpetrators to trial. America hasn't accepted it's over.

Really? I don't seem to recall Al Qaeda or ISIS ever surrendering or giving up the fight! What we need to do is crush their will to fight and their will to sacrifice themselves, and when that happens, when the world gets back to normal and we no longer have to worry about suicide terrorists then the War on Terror will be good and won!

And today we see on the news that the US has banned carry-on laptops and tablets. What!?!? That affects me. I haven't checked any baggage since 1997.

Blame the Jihad! Unfortunately, you don' win wars by enhancing security and building walls, what you have to do is go out and destroy the enemy, make such an example of him so that other people and countries will no better than to start a war with you, this is what we did to Japan and Germany at the end of World War II, but unfortunately over time, the enemy forgets and needs to be reminded, they agan think they can wage a war against you and win, so we need to show them that they are wrong, by destroying enough of them to make them think that further fighting would be too costly and not worth it!

I bought a bag called a "weekender", the largest bag that fits under the seat of an economy class seat. It has a central compartment for clothes, and a side compartment for laptop and papers. I haven't travelled in a couple years, but when I do I buy my ticket online, use the airport check-in kiosk to get a boarding pass, and walk straight onto the plane. When the plane arrives, I walk straight to the taxi area. I never waste time waiting in lines, never waste time at the luggage carousel. I've had my luggage lost or damaged too many times, just don't trust airlines. That means the laptop I use to make my presentation has to be in my carry-on. If I can't carry a laptop, then I can't give a presentation at a Mars Society convention. If I can't give a presentation, there's no point in me going.

Defense defense defense, over the last 8 years the emphasis has always been on defense and not on offense, if the Enemy fails to get through and make his attack, he says, "Oh darn," and tries again and again until he finanlly succeeds and auses the casualities that he wants! It is time we fought back and retaliated, make their societies pay the price for getting into a war with the United States!

This reminds me of the ban on liquids. Airport security experts have long admitted that the ban on liquids does absolutely nothing for safety. It's just "theatre", to appear to be doing something. I creates inconvenience without doing anything for safety. Just an appearance of doing something.

The something we could do is bomb the enemy, bomb him and bomb him until his people grow tired of the war and the mounting causalities. What is this war for anyway? What do they hope to achieve? Obama would have ended this war at the negotiating table if he could, but they just kept attacking and attacking, and by doing so, they kept the war alive for the next Administration, the Trump Administration, and Donald Trump needs to do what Obama could not, finish off this enemy so it is no longer a threat!

However, TV news stated the ban, but reading online showed a clause the talking head on TV didn't mention. This is only for jets coming from Mideast or North Africa. Oh, so this doesn't affect me. Ok.

Back to your point. How much longer is the US going to meddle in Middle East affairs? Bin Laden is now dead, but the US appears determined to create new enemies. You can't "solve the terrorist problem" when you keep creating new enemies. You keep creating your own problem.

A long as the Middle East meddles on our affairs by attacking us! That is the answer, our goal is clear, to stop terrorism, to stamp it out, what I their goal, to be destroyed by the West? Also why do you want them coming here? It seems they are proving that Islam is a menace, that is what their Jihad is showing us! Why do we continue to let Muslims in here and walk among us, and pull out a dagger or a bomb every now and then, or run us over with a truck or take over an airplane and crash it! If your argument is we shouldn't be meddeling in their affairs, that also seems to be a strong argument for not letting them come here, yet you liberals say we should get out of the Middle East, and you roll out the red carpet for middle easterners that want to come here, especially Muslims! You seem determined that Americans not feel safe. th only argument for pulling out of the Middle East is for safety, but you undermine that by insisting that we don't band Muslims. So we are back to square one, you refuse to follow a true isolationist policy, yet you want us to withdraw from the middle east without banning Muslims from coming here. So my question is, why should we do what you ask? There seems to be nothing in it for us! No matter what we do, they keep on killing us, so the only choice left is to go out and destroy them! That is the logic and my conclusion, do you have a better answer?

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#771 2017-03-21 15:33:35

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,034
Website

Re: Politics

Tom: Have you bothered to try to read their statements? Do you have any idea why they're fighting? Or do you only read propaganda? They have said the United States started it. The United States murdered their leaders. The United States has soldiers on their soil. The United States is occupying their land. Did you ever stop to think that your own government is the bad guy? They see themselves as freedom fighters. They certainly won't knuckle under to a military oppressor who kills their leaders, imposes a puppet government with collaborators who are completely corrupt, embezzling their tax dollars and extorting their business. That's what they claim. Did you ever stop to think they could be right? That large American corporations operating in their country have committed atrocities? That American military operating under orders from corrupt American politicians receiving bribes from those large American corporations have sent covert ops to commit murder? So you want to "crush" them. Uh huh. This is what one of their cities look like now. And you wonder why they continue to defend themselves?
woman-and-child-in-kobani-syria.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x720.jpg

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#772 2017-03-21 19:36:35

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

That is propaganda, the United States doesn't occupy any land in the Middle East, they say we do, but that doesn't make it true. and also I might add, the Middle East was the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, Islam was a latecomer that arrived in the 7th century, 700 years after the birth of Jesus Christ, so no they don't have exclusive rights to the place. Islam is just an overly successful cult, it would be like the Mormons taking over North America and saying no other religions belong here!

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#773 2017-03-21 20:05:19

Tom Kalbfus
Banned
Registered: 2006-08-16
Posts: 4,401

Re: Politics

RobertDyck wrote:

Tom: Have you bothered to try to read their statements? Do you have any idea why they're fighting?

There statements have little to do with why they are fighting, they are fighting for power, they are fighting against liberals like you, they hate women's rights, they hate Jews and Christians, there is nothing just about what they are fighting for, they are simply two-legged monsters that look human. You see what they did, putting people in cages and burning them alive? They stone women for adultery, they cut off heads and put them in baskets, they are simply monsters, and we need to hunt them down!. I don't know why you bother to try and see things from their point of view, they are not civilized, they are not humane, they behave in ways that are similar to the orcs of Middle Earth. So when they start acting like human beings, then maybe they'll deserve to be treated like human beings, but until then they are monsters!

Or do you only read propaganda?

What propaganda, the 9/11 attack was real, I was there! I believe humans were really burned in cages, I can show you the baskets of human heads they collected, and they trained children to shoot other children that weren't what they considered to be Muslim. They are barbarians, and they deserve no respect from us, and we should make it clear to them that they are not going to get any respect from us, so long as they behave this way.

They have said the United States started it. The United States murdered their leaders.

It was their leaders idea to have this Jihad against the West, if they would fight like civilized soldiers, they would get more respect from us, but they don't, they target civilians on purpose!

The United States has soldiers on their soil.

What is their soil? Syria or Iraq? The Levant, they claim a lot of land, and there are modern states that occupy that land and don't agree with them, and the fact that they act like monsters and violate all the rules of war while they fight indicates they don't really deserve any land. If they act like orcs, they are not going get Mordor!

The United States is occupying their land. Did you ever stop to think that your own government is the bad guy?

Not once, if we were as evil as they are, we would have exterminated them the way Hitler intended to do with the Jews!

They see themselves as freedom fighters.

Well they are not freedom fighters, they haven't freed anyone, and have enslaved quite a few women and forced marriages on them after murdering their husbands!

They certainly won't knuckle under to a military oppressor who kills their leaders, imposes a puppet government with collaborators who are completely corrupt, embezzling their tax dollars and extorting their business.

Then we need to kill them! People who burn POWs in cages deserve nothing.

That's what they claim.

I can tell a lie too, and so can you, saying something doesn't make it true, and people who murder and enslave are capable of lying

Did you ever stop to think they could be right?

You mean about enslaving women and burning people in cages? Don't you believe in equal rights for women. We're the country that does, they do not, that is one of the reasons they are fighting us, but you are more than willing to think of the United States as evil, no matter who says it, even if its a bunch of Islamo-Nazis that hate women and who are intolerant of other religions and homosexuality. These are monsters!

That large American corporations operating in their country have committed atrocities?

You take the word of an orc?

That American military operating under orders from corrupt American politicians receiving bribes from those large American corporations have sent covert ops to commit murder?

Murder people who stone women for adultery and immodesty?

So you want to "crush" them.

Yes they are killing us, if we kill enough of them, they will get the message that killing Americans is a bad idea!

Uh huh. This is what one of their cities look like now. And you wonder why they continue to defend themselves?
https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/the … 86x720.jpg

We will stop when they stop attacking us, its quite simply, but they love fighting and sending their men and women to die in suicide bombs, they fact that they are using such things indicates they don't value their own lives so why should we? They are a bunch of monsters that look human, that have got this meme in their head that they are part of a Jihad against the West, and we've played softball with them for too long, letting them think they can win, and that God is on their side. We need to show them the error of their ways.

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#774 2017-03-21 20:51:01

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 10,637

Re: Politics

Governance is very much compounded by the seperation of state and federal control plus laws for each that should be unified from state to state but are not. To which the federal is to be the voice of the people from each state and not there own respective lifer voice which is why if we are to keep a federal level of government then we need to do term limits for all three branches of it. Also if you believe that we are indeed a united level of states then there should be only one law that matters and not serveral different ones depending on state, county and city or town levels of government in addition to the federal.

What I see is the democrats and Republicans are doing a poor job of trying to create a unified level of laws that equalize the nations differences in each state. That is were the rub is as the only method that is be pushed is to employ them in governments positions in these states but that is not enough as the low end wage earner is still in poverty even when they work like a dog, not just a 40 hour week but closer to the 60 or 70 hour level just to raise there heads above water. That said we subsidize the poor which has bread those that take advantage of the helping hand. To correct that we need a work requirement of at least 20 to 30 hours a pay period (weekly) to make it so that we stop it from being taken advantage of as if you do not work you get no help. Sure there may be a few exception but we can limit it.

Health care is apart from ethics is a pricing difference for the same care from place to place and for doctor to doctor with in a states border but also from one state to the next. The charges are to be the same across the board. The rates for the insurance and its coverage is to be the same as well. Do not play games with this parts of the body is covered by this policy while the others are covered by another insurer's policy type.

Infrastructure is a problem even at the town or city level as they will nickle and dime them as to keep property taxes from rising which actually causes it to eventually cost way more to implement later than had they done it in the here an now instead. This is not just for the roads we drive on as the county and state will do the same when it comes to replacing bridges and expanding the widths of current highways to make them safer and to allow for short commute times as stop and go would be reduced if they were design correctly. When we talk this we are also talking about water, sewerage, waste water runoff and power this is not just an only in the remotest area of the town, city, county or state which towns also do a little as needed for the most concentrated areas of there land.
The same action is used to control costs as it on the tax payers backs for state and property for these.

I agree that the banks were not totally at fault for the collapse of housing but a cause to want to get a home is the ever increasing rent which is just money being flushed down a toilet which means they are not saving enough and have not learned to tighten the belt to be able to sustain owning the home either as when the first item needs repair they have not set aside funds to make the repair possible.

Energy is a consumption problem where it is to easy to make use of it rather than doing it the hard way with your back or not at all...It is ever to convenyent to keep adding more and more devices that use power to the equation. The energy takes on also other forms in coal, oil, gas, gasoline, tar ect....with the same net results of more consumption and more devices, more vehicles ect...until we work closer to home we are stuck with the ever rising costs. Solar, wind, water, ocean wave technology and thermal while not as effiencent in supply as nuclear do make up for it by its steady flow of the energy created from the sum of them collectively. Nuclear would be fine if it was less hazardous and was more like the standard smoke detector for safety. That is why science is looking at the isotopic generation by several different effects.

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#775 2017-03-21 21:25:56

RobertDyck
Member
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 5,034
Website

Re: Politics

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

if we kill enough of them, they will get the message that killing Americans is a bad idea!

You realize they have the same idea. You kill them, they kill you. When does the cycle stop?

When Bill Clinton was president, the cycle with al-Qaeda escalated until it became 9/11. ISIS hasn't attacked the US on American soil...yet. Do you want to push them until they do?

Look. The US supported general Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Look how well that turned out. The US supported Osama bin Laden against Soviets in Afghanistan. Again, didn't that work? Iran elected a Prime Minister in 1951, had a modern liberal democracy. An Anglo-American coup in 1953 overthrew that government, installed the Shaw who was corrupt. This isn't sounding good, is it?

Now there's ISIS. Bad guys. The only reason they have any chance is the ongoing civil war in Syria. The fight between Syrian army and rebels ties up all their resources. If that wasn't ongoing, they Syrian army would have long ago gotten rid of ISIS. And you realize ISIS gets most of their weapons by intercepting weapons drops by the US intended for rebels.

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