The Oil Price War 2015, nations, money flow, spacefaring.

Void · 2015-12-05 20:55:30

I a bit sorry (But not very much) if I see more evidence that perhaps the tides of reality will turn to our favor.

Fracking Optimist:
http://www.tomasinmorgan.com/index.php? … &Itemid=27
So, I could see the limits of Fracking, and actually it sounded like it was going to be a flash in the pan.
However, now that the prices for doing it have been reduced by innovative technology, I can see that more tight oil will be economic to recover. If that was not enough, then their is this;

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/OP … -Boom.html
Hmm? I can burn coal, push the CO2 into the ground, get much more oil and (Money), and compete most politely with our dire enemies. And I can then avoid a Carbon Tax, and also to be nice also indeed develop some more solar and wind, (More nails in their coffins, applause, smiles , Lets do a wooden stake, silver bullets, and garlic for full measure)?
And we Win, Win, Win? Yup, Yup, Yup somebody says.

OPEC, Get Ready For The Second U.S. Oil Boom

What OPEC countries fear most is a follow-up technological revolution that will lead to a second oil boom in the U.S., and that fear is now being realized.
A technological revolution spurred the U.S. oil boom that resulted in the greatest increase in domestic oil production in a century, and while that has stuttered in the face of a major oil price slump and an OPEC campaign to maintain a grip on market share, the American response could be another technological revolution that demonstrates that the first one was merely an impressive embryonic experiment.
It’s not only about shale now—it’s about reviving mature oil fields through advancements in enhanced oil recovery, potentially opening up not only new shale fields, but older fields that have been forgotten.
There are myriad gloom-and-doom stories about what is often alluded to as a short-lived oil boom in the U.S. But what many fail to understand is that revolutions of this nature are phased, with the advent of new technology typically followed by a temporary halt in progress while we study the results and come up with something even better.
Related: Top 5 Oil Producing Countries Could See Production Peak This Year
What we’re looking at here are advancements in EOR for greater production and cost efficiency that can weather oil price slumps and awaken America’s sleeping giant oil fields. Soon we are likely to see some new players in the field buying up oil assets and putting more advanced EOR technologies to work to re-ignite the revolution.
The shale revolution was stunning, indeed. But there have been setbacks—even beyond the oil price slump that has rendered fracking expensive. Fracking uses a lot of water. According to a recent U.S. Geological Survey study, the process uses up to 9.6 million gallons of water per well and is putting farming and drinking sources at risk in arid states, and especially in major drought-ridden shale-boom venues like Texas.
Phase two of the U.S. oil boom hits at the heart of the inadequacies of the first phase, in a natural progression.
There are two very interesting EOR advancements that have caught our attention in recent months: CO2 EOR and Plasma Pulse Technology (PPT).
CO2, or carbon dioxide EOR, involves injecting CO2 into ageing oil fields to sweep residual oil to the surface. In some cases, it can extend the production life of a field by more than 25 years. The U.S. is fortunate in this regard because it has a large volume of low-cost, naturally occurring CO2 at its disposal; however, in order to be widely employed the infrastructure to deliver it to oil fields has to be in place.
Visiongain estimates that global CO2 EOR spending will be $4.74 billion this year. “This will decline in the short term as low oil prices take their toll on the capital spending programmes of CO2 EOR operators, but is expected to rise rapidly in the next decade.”
Then we have something a bit more futuristic, even though it is already commercially viable—Plasma Pulse Technology, or PPT. This is a patent pending technology that enables the “re-opening” of wells without water, without polluting chemicals and without causing earthquakes. The ”re-opening” side of this equation means that it doesn’t open rock like fracking, rather it comes in afterwards and cleans up well bores to clear the pathway for oil to flow faster and more efficiently to the surface like it once did.
Plasma Pulse Technology (PPT) creates a controlled plasma arc within a vertical well, generating a tremendous amount of heat for a fraction of a second, while the subsequent high-speed hydraulic impulse wave emitted is strong enough to remove any clogged sedimentation from the perforation zone without damaging the steel casing. The series of impulse waves also penetrates deep into the reservoir, which re-opens reservoir permeability for up to a year per treatment.
Related: Nuclear Is Not Dead, Uranium Supply Deficit Could Be On The Horizon
But to determine what new EOR technology is going to steal the limelight in the coming months and years, we follow the progress of the EOR leaders and the big strategic investors, such as Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich.

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The market leader in extracting oil and gas using CO2 enhanced oil recovery processes is Denbury Resources (NYSE:DNR), which many will agree is a company that offers investors long-term value because of its focus on efficiency.
As for Abramovich, he is a metals magnate who also happens to own the Chelsea football club and is the 143rd wealthiest person in the world, worth about $9 billion according to Forbes. He is the main owner of UK-registered Millhouse LLC, a private investment company whose assets have included major stakes in Sibneft, which is now Gazprom Neft. In 2005, Millhouse sold a 72 percent stake in Sibneft to Gazprom for more than $13 billion.
In fact, PPT first caught our eye back in February, when Abramovich—who has a track record of very strategic investments--moved to invest $15 million in a Houston-based company called Propell Technologies Group, Inc. (OTC:PROP). Until Abramovich brought it to the world’s attention, few had probably ever heard of Propell, which has a wholly-owned subsidiary called Novas Energy U.S.A, the licensee and developer of the PPT technology.
The subsidiary licenses the technology from a venture capital-backed Russian energy technology company named Novas Energy, and the Russian connection makes sense here. After all, Plasma Pulse technology has been very successfully employed in both Russian producer and injector wells. More than anything, this Russian connection speaks volumes about the efficiency of this advanced EOR technology: Russia doesn’t have draconian fracking regulations pressuring companies to use environmentally friendly technology. What this means is that it’s cost effective; otherwise Russians wouldn’t be using it.
Beyond the technology itself, if we follow Abramovich further we get a glimpse of what’s about to happen on the U.S. EOR scene. In February, Abramovich took a stake with Propell, which was made through a Cyprus-registered company called Ervington Investments Limited. The February deal saw Propell raise $5 million from the sale of 1,525,424 shares of a preferred stock at $3.28 per share. The deal also gave Ervington the option to invest an additional $9.75 million, under the same terms, which it took advantage of on July 6. This Abramovich investment will be used to acquire oilfields with the overall aim to employ the new technology to increase output.
You have to read between the lines here. Abramovich doesn’t do anything small. He’ll get the infrastructure in place and then look to acquire a significant position in the U.S. oil sector at today’s fire sale prices to employ this EOR technology.
Related: Oil Price Plunge Raises Fears for Indebted Shale Companies
If OPEC keeps oil prices below $100 for some time to come, the smart investor will be looking for something that captures long-term value, which means focusing on operational efficiency.
So while many might assume that EOR is now too expensive to be supported during an oil price slump, a little counter-intuition tells us that this will change in the immediate future and investors will start looking at companies who are actually behind this new technology or the companies who are focusing on using this new technology--whether it be CO2 EOR or PPT--to get more out of their oilfields.
Over the long-term EOR makes production cheaper. And as Chesapeake Energy’s (NYSE:CHK) Jason Pigott succinctly put it: “We can’t control prices, so we have to focus on how much it costs to get it out of the ground.”
When low oil prices close doors, technology steps in to reopen them, and certainly innovation will drive the next U.S. oil boom—and the latest advancements are already commercially viable. The door has been re-opened.
What OPEC knows is this: The U.S. has over 21 billion barrels of oil that could be economically recovered with today’s EOR technologies. And according to figures from the U.S. Department of Energy and the Western Governors Association (WGA), further advances in this technology could cause that figure to double.
By James Stafford of Oilprice.com

My Goodness: Plasma Pulse technology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbGmNjx_F3U

I am not going to bother with the geopolitical aspects (Excessively). It is apparent that their are serous chances that the balance of energy power is shifting in the future to where Eurasian and not the others will have energy dominance. This bodes well for space industry, since, the "Others" like to verbalize grievances and do tribal warfare on each other and us. That is how they understand reality. They understand communication, even literacy, but they limit their literature to approved documents, as far as technology, they understand things that make easy money where you don't have to think and they understand dominance over other peoples to make money and to replace other peoples genes with there questionable value genes.

So, we may have the blessings of the preferred dominance of technological peoples in the relevant future. Hurray, maybe.

Last edited by Void (2015-12-05 21:47:35)

Void · 2015-12-06 06:25:15

Well here is an article that I think helps to produce a focused understanding of what has happened and very likely what is happening going forward a while.

Don’t write off the future of oil and gas just yet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilp … t-yet.html

So, if I have it broke down correctly it appears that we in the U.S. and likely the West will stop using Coal, are doing so, replacing it with natural gas. If we do this, then we will have removed enough Carbon from our energy budgets, to correct for the climate change anxieties, we will be home free.

And then there is this: (I presume that the renewable energy mentioned here applies to the planetary efforts, not just the U.S.)

With wind and solar on track to exceed 100 gigawatts in new installations for the first time this year, 2015 is shaping up to be a watershed. Extrapolating from present trends, the investment bank finds that renewable energy sources will add the oil equivalent of 6.2 million barrels per day by 2020, or more than the entire US shale revolution in the previous five years. Eventually, critical mass will be achieved, closing the cost gap with hydrocarbons.

So, going forward, we can have a lot, if not "It All", and won't have to pay much rent to OPEC at all. This should be fantastic news for industrial space faring entities.

Being strong enough to fend off conquest (Rape) from the Blighted areas, I anticipate that indeed vast areas of the world will be allowed to practice the Autarky which has been mentioned by others. The Blighted areas will be forced to change their ways, or be mostly irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky

I am not against global free trade for the economic purpose, I just don't think that the pressure for it will be as large as it previously was.

And in many cases global trade for commodities has caused some very bad moral situations to emerge.

Now they can get real jobs instead of running around causing trouble.

Last edited by Void (2015-12-06 06:47:17)

Terraformer · 2015-12-08 15:00:44

On the other hand, that oil money is placating a lot of people. What happens when the Arab oil states destabilise? What about Russia? You can't close the borders, even if you try.

Which then has repercussions for energy sources. How much did the recent attack in Ukraine (on the electricity connection to Crimea0 cost to mount, and how much damage did it do? How much will it cost to guard every stretch of powerline in a country? Regular attacks would make large, centralised power sources such as nuclear, large scale wind and solar, hydro, tidal, coal, and (heavy) oil uneconomical, which would shift resources towards resilient microgrids running on solar, microhydro, diesel, and natural gas. Which would then change the balance of power *within* countries.

Void · 2015-12-08 23:51:46

Reasonable questions. Sorry for the late response I did not see your post.

All I can offer is my thinking, which does not require that you accept it. I believe that my thinking to a point, is a better model of reality than that of many who propose to own/manipulate reality to their continued benefit.

I took the time some time ago to diagnose reality. I choose not to say what the data was that I investigated, but I can tell you that eventually morons were attracted to my activity, and damaged the data. I don't believe they understood what I was after, and I don't believe they comprehend what it represented.

Each people, "whatever that is" travel through time, supposing that once they have achieved a "Blessing" it is due to them no matter what they do. When that privilege seems to be threatened, the first thing they will try to do is manipulate reality to bring their privilege back to them. Increasingly it requires that they do manipulations that are harder and harder to maintain their privilege. Eventually the immorality of what they do weighs on their future.

All of this happens as a geometric calculation through space and time. The calculator never misses a wrong doing, all is paid back in some way. Either you will confess and find humility and take a loss, or you will eventually take a loss and be charged interest for wasting the universes time and space.

And it is your choice to believe that or not

Now as a responsible citizen of this universe, I have a choice to exploit an emerging child, which is capability, by using efficiency. But that is morally wrong. We do not efficiently consume children. If we are decent. But the shadows conceal a different reality. The Uga Booga stew pot still exists, and we have plenty of people who want to march us into it. Punch such people, slap them, trip them, beat them with a stick as necessary. Don't get in their stew pot.

At the same time it is required that a child will struggle a bit, perhaps significantly. If it does not, how "Can it learn to fly?" To deny a child struggle is to deny them the inheritance they could receive from the death of their childhood, when they become adults.

Obviously this opens the door to the thinking of idiots. To say "What does not kill me will make me stronger", seems to forget that a piano falling on me from above that severs my spine might not kill me but perhaps puts me in a wheel chair, then I can go to the gym(but obtain less value from it), and I have hygiene problems, psychological problems. Really, yes perhaps then in a wheel chair I can be an example of a certain strength, but lets be honest, I will then be easy lion meat if a lion shows up.

So, an idiot will try to breed horses that can live on less food, until the horse needs no food. (Dead horse). So the point is the need for a child to struggle is no excuse for purposeful neglect or cruelty, or a selfish variety either.

But, back to the tides of time;

In my opinion we are at a major turning of the tide. Some have supposed that the movement of power from the west to the east would involve the "West" falling and the Middle East rising. The Middle East is not the East however.

We are also at the point of a minor tide reversal as well. The time of the European Empires is over. They were like a wind rushing into a vacuum. Well the pressure has equalized.

Should you read the information currently on the internet about the European, you have three or four main groups that created them. You have the Hunter Gatherers who strangely enough had blue eyes but dark skin in North West Europe. You had tall pale farmers from the Middle East, and you had some people from the Steps that brought in the Wheel, and horses (It seems that they might have had a subset of a different Hunter Gatherer type from the Caucasus area in their pool as well.

Of the three, the farmers have a chance at efficiency. But their efficiency leads to redundant behaviors without sufficient challenge.

On the other hand people who move around a lot encounter more variation. This would be true for Hunter Gatherers, and for the Plains peoples. Of course for the plains, the challenge was to move long distances. For the hunter gatherer, you had to move through a more chaotic reality, and in many cases it was more 3 dimensional.

With the efficiency of farming came cities. With that came also a greater portion of slavery, and hierarchy, and the very much to be dreaded specialization.

Then under those circumstances you don't need a full deck of cards so to speak, for a mind.

I recall seeing an astronaut speak about the mind. He mentioned an organism that when it is juvenile is mobile and has a brain. Later in adulthood, it anchors itself to the ocean bottom, and the first thing it does is eat it's brain, because it does not need it anymore. Nature does not favor intelligence, our supposed intelligence is due to historical challenge, and motion is almost always involved.

Russia and the true Western Europe (In the west by the North Sea, Duh), are to be in accention, and I am sorry, but the M.E. and Med, not so good. They had the last 500 years. Go to sleep.

We have seen what has happened when we tried to "Westernize" some country to the East of Greece. Ya, sure, that's going good isn't it. They are CHEETING! They don't want to earn their place, they want to simply demand it.

What needs to be avoided is rewarding peoples who eat their brains, use mental specializations excessively, engage in hierarchy, and dominate other peoples around them for wealth. They do this unfortunately with communications as a tool.

Communication is a double edged sword. It provides efficiency, but it also allows a sort of cheat (Which we all use). Communication does not favor intelligence. It does favor education.

Intelligence is the ability to sort information out of noise.

I think it is incredibly hilarious when they say on the news that some government agency is getting intelligence on the ground, lets say in Iraq or some other country. Shouldn't they be getting chatter/noise, and shouldn't they find their intelligence in their minds, and use their minds to extract intelligence from the chatter/noise? But that's what you get from people who are idiot savant communicators.

Alright I will try to get to the point.
1) The tides of time are currently against the persistence of what was.
2) Many people in the west are taking "Sugar" from people who have large oil deposits to warp what they are doing. They are not for instance acting to protect the American nation for instance. (Or your nation).
3) Similarly, on a periodic basis, our treasury gets drained in order to fight some war over in those places. And then they tell us we don't have enough money for our entitlements. That's humorous, if it's is an entitlement, am I not entitled. How come they seem to want to mix my entitlements with the mercy we distribute to the unfortunate? Well the realty is they scrape the honey from the hive, and give it to people who are not me. I will leave you to guess who those people are.
4) Those people over there don't want to westernize, in fact they want to eat their brains. Have one book, use sophisticated weapons, but otherwise not engage in technological abilities. They are creatures of communication, specialization, and violence. That is it.

They need a nice challenge. If we can we should remove the sugar, and let them know that when they are done eating their brains, they can go hungry, because they are not getting anyone into their uga buga stew pots.

In other words, get a real job, quit acting like you own the universe, and have the right to take things from other people who actually work and think.

By taking the sugar, of course I do not intend to take their oil, just make it irrelevant.

We should have an intelligence agency which is intelligent, which watches who takes sugar money from those people. Then we should make sure that the sugar babies are not allowed to mess with the course of our history.

End for now.

Last edited by Void (2015-12-09 10:26:19)

Void · 2015-12-09 10:29:42

Terraformer I will try again, this time sticking closer to your post(quote) as a reference:

On the other hand, that oil money is placating a lot of people. What happens when the Arab oil states destabilise? What about Russia? You can't close the borders, even if you try.
Which then has repercussions for energy sources. How much did the recent attack in Ukraine (on the electricity connection to Crimea0 cost to mount, and how much damage did it do? How much will it cost to guard every stretch of powerline in a country? Regular attacks would make large, centralised power sources such as nuclear, large scale wind and solar, hydro, tidal, coal, and (heavy) oil uneconomical, which would shift resources towards resilient microgrids running on solar, microhydro, diesel, and natural gas. Which would then change the balance of power *within* countries.

It all depends of what is destabilize. If they have oil they can make water. Greenhouse gasses? That's not my responsibility. They could make it for some time. As for the leadership, well, they are the best on the planet at what they do. But shall we run our economic foreign policy to protect them?

Russia is not a dying culture. In fact they are doing relatively well with their population. The Orthodox church I have read is more compatible with the Islam that exists in their country. The birth rates of non-Islamic and Islamic peoples is reasonably close. The Russians in their own way understand what they are dealing with much better than at least we in the USA do. They can probably handle the situation. Usually literally the Muslims that are in their country are not at massive odds with the nation state. So, they can even be an asset to the Russians.

As for the power lines, this is what happens when you let morons who understand domination and communication loose on the world.
Who did it? I don't know. I know it wasn't a technically(And productive) oriented person.

The Russians and Ottomans had 13 wars I believe, and you might be able to correct me, but I think the Russians won all 13.

You are probably right about centralized methods being subject to attention from Idiot Savants from the Old Old world. And correct that decentralization and a grid are a proper response.

Last edited by Void (2015-12-09 10:51:04)

Void · 2015-12-09 14:28:25

How would you like your stake done?

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 71#p126871

https://www.google.com/search?q=Vampire … gB&dpr=0.9

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-09 15:11:52

I had the pleasure today of going out to a gas station and watching them change the price from $2.05 a gallon to $1.99 a gallon. I saw them replace the 5 with a 9 and at first I thought the price was going up, but then they exchanged the 2 for a 1. Bad news of Putin, I'd say. Probably bad news for the sales of all electric cars as well! Seems easier to reduce the price of gas than to build a vehicle that uses less of it or none at all!

Void · 2015-12-09 19:18:34

The current oil situation is not ideal for Russia, but they do much better than some others.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gener … e-War.html

Last edited by Void (2015-12-09 19:21:57)

SpaceNut · 2015-12-09 22:22:04

Tom Kalbfus, I have as well seen the gas prices at the pump continue to drop, winter has remained mild in temperatures to keep refineries from switching over the formulars which always force the prices back up......

Void · 2015-12-10 01:10:23

Well, for me it's been a good Christmas, already!

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWR1yKBQOFAp9koK89h1XRKNPhDjyZPORj3SHtphh5D6onYwybIg

1) First there is this:
http://phys.org/news/2015-12-metal-powd … fuels.html

Study points to metal powders as potential replacement for fossil fuels

Metal powders, produced using clean primary energy sources, could provide a more viable long-term replacement for fossil fuels than other widely discussed alternatives, such as hydrogen, biofuels or batteries, according to a study in the Dec. 15 issue of the journal Applied Energy.
"Technologies to generate clean electricity - primarily solar and wind power - are being developed rapidly; but we can't use that electricity for many of the things that oil and gas are used for today, such as transportation and global energy trade," notes McGill University professor Jeffrey Bergthorson, lead author of the new study.

2) Then I though, I would like to make liquid air with a windmill, and use that at the "Steam" for such an engine. So, I searched the internet about it and got another present!
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/ene … gy-storage
http://www.hydrolance.net/LiquidAirWind … oLance.htm
While they are all good, my preference will be that eventually perhaps the windmill will use it's blades to radiate heat, and that electricity will not be involved, except for it's control mechanisms. No electric generator, a liquid air generator. But for now the above will serve nicely, thank's Santa.

3) We already know that we can have one of these: (Solar power tower)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower

And we could superheat Hydrogen or Natural gas with it.
Certainly superheated Natural gas might be able to reduce the iron powder back to usefulness for powering a car.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_reduced_iron
Obviously the people that are working on item #1 have something in mind.

So if you are using natural gas, there will be some CO2 produced in the process, but going back to this,
4) http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/OP … -Boom.html
That can be pushed in to an old oil field to bring it back to life.

So, the whole process can be almost Zero Carbon. (Of course it also allows oil to be extracted, but that is not a direct part of the process). Therefore, we can have an alliance with the most stringent environmentalists (Not the tin foil ones), And we can cut the sugar to the people on the planet who like to attack us, and have a nice life.

So, absolutely fabulous!

Merry Christmas!

Last edited by Void (2015-12-10 02:33:06)

Void · 2015-12-10 01:49:56

I will make the point that if you had a car with a steam engine which ran on powdered metals, and used liquid air for it's steam, it would preheat off of the air that the car was traveling through. It would also provide air conditioning, and since you would have a combustion engine, you would also have a heater in the car as well.

Again, Merry Christmas!

Last edited by Void (2015-12-10 02:32:23)

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-10 12:25:27

Void wrote:

The current oil situation is not ideal for Russia, but they do much better than some others.
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gener … e-War.html
http://cdn.oilprice.com/images/tinymce/euanpec5.jpg

Maybe Russia ought to stop acting like a Third World Country and do what other European countries are doing, like trade and producing things besides weapons. The Saudis are a rich Third World Country, it population doesn't produce much, and it relies of foreigners to produce much of what they consume at government expense, all supported by oil exports! To put it bluntly, I am sick and tired of the Middle East, I do not want to support those lazy bums that do nothing but wage war on each other and the World. Its about time we got an energy source besides those undeserving Arabs. We're an industrial power, I'm sure we can figure out something. Russia ought to make something other than trouble and exporting oil. Russia can do it, if only its leaders would let them!

Last edited by Tom Kalbfus (2015-12-10 12:26:05)

Void · 2015-12-10 13:59:59

When is the last time a "Russian" type person came to the USA, and shot up a bunch of innocent people?

So, right off the start, they are way better than those creeps you mentioned.

Last edited by Void (2015-12-10 14:01:10)

Void · 2015-12-11 22:46:48

I have had fertilizer inserted into my mind by the kids on this topic:
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7251
I don't want to interrupt their though flows. Really enjoying their work, but I feel mischievous,
So I will do a trial balloon for what popped into my head from their work here, since it is also perhaps an extension of what was previously posted here.

I am thinking liquid air and geothermal.
Specifically, while I do appreciate windmills with electric generators where the electricity is then used to create liquid air, I also would much prefer as I have said a windmill that squirts liquid air. That is, it has the method to radiate heat from it's blades, and to make liquid air from the energy that the wind provides using mechanical forces.

A cute trick from that is to manufacture an Oxygen beneficiated gas to combust fuels in power plants. This way much less energy is going up the smoke stack to heat Nitrogen. However, that is not my pet project.

I am wondering if we might inject liquid air into "VOIDS" in the Earth, to harvest geothermal energy. (Atributions to Antius for Mars).

Of course if not done correctly there will be permafrost blockages created. A wet environment will freeze up unless the geothermal is very hot.

I am wondering about old fracked oil wells for one. If I understand, they are supposed to be below the water table.

And salt domes. I do know that they can have brine in them, so that could freeze. Could you create a big cave by pumping out the brine and the fill the thing with liquid air?

The point is, then this is a possible way to level out the energy output of windmills, and to also involve the harvesting of geothermal heat.

Something like this might be mentioned for Mars as well, but no wind mills, and I think it is actually and Antius idea. Mars does Maybe have salt domes though I might mention Antius.

http://www.cprm.gov.br/33IGC/1339154.html

Alright for Mars, the solution could be.

Brine of salt and water. When cold it likely can dissolve much more CO2 than when warm. Therefore cool it to almost freezing, saturate it with CO2, and inject it into a salt dome.

The Geothermal warms it up, and CO2 comes out of solution and you have pressurized CO2 coming out of your well. Maybe this could work?

Last edited by Void (2015-12-11 23:06:02)

Void · 2015-12-13 11:48:23

Back to Oil wars, in case some may misunderstand. What I am against is the cross feed between nations who sell Oil as their one economic trick, and people in western nations who profit from it.

I believe that this arrangement is taking the freedom away from both types of nation, and I want some kind of an end to this.
I don't mind if Oil nations are prosperous, I just don't want them having a chokehold on our nation, and I very much dislike the cultural perversions that are happening to the west when power brokers overseas are more important to governing entities here than the local people are. Because of oil, we have people of power in this nation who should not be.

And then on top of that, if we can come up with some new energy methods, I think that it may ultimately lead to a higher standard of living instead of a lower standard of living, and we hope satisfy the greens enough.

The greens can never be totally satisfied, because to some of them are just plain nutty. Also we have bean counters who are always trying to breed a new breed of horse that needs no food.

Never mind that we are not their horses. (They have problems understanding that).

Last edited by Void (2015-12-13 11:51:45)

Void · 2015-12-13 11:54:28

As for a car that uses liquid air for steam, and has a powered metal external combustion engine. Of course running out of "Gas" and such problems would be amplified. Liquid air is hazardous if spilled, so yes there will be convenience and safety issues.

Maybe the method could be started in Busses. The USA is geared for busses. With that then some of the safety and practicality issues could be ironed out.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-13 14:50:43

Void wrote:

When is the last time a "Russian" type person came to the USA, and shot up a bunch of innocent people?
So, right off the start, they are way better than those creeps you mentioned.

The Boston Marathon, well actually he blew up a bunch of people with pressure cooker bombs, he did some shooting too along with his brother when the police moved in to arrest them.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev - a Russian Terrorist of the Islamic Faith.

Void · 2015-12-13 15:38:46

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Tsarnaev

The Tsarnaevs were forcibly moved from Chechnya to the Soviet republic of Kyrgyzstan in the years following World War II.[21] His father, Anzor Tsarnaev, is a Chechen, and his mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, is an Avar

Early life[edit]
Tsarnaev was born in Kyrgyzstan. As a child, he emigrated with his family to Russia and then, when he was eight years old, to the United States under political asylum. The family settled in Cambridge and became U.S. permanent residents in March 2007. He became a naturalized U.S. citizen on September 11, 2012, while in college.[1][34][38] His mother, Zubeidat, also became a naturalized U.S. citizen, but it is not clear if his father, Anzor, ever did. Tamerlan, his brother, was unable to naturalize expeditiously due to an investigation against him, which held up the citizenship process.[45] At Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, a public high school, he was an avid wrestler, captain of his high-school wrestling team, and a Greater Boston League winter all-star.[34][42] He sometimes worked as a lifeguard at Harvard University.[46]
In 2011, he contacted a professor at UMass Dartmouth who taught a class about Chechen history, expressing his interest in the topic.[47] He graduated from high school in 2011[34] and the city of Cambridge awarded him a $2,500 scholarship that year.[42] His brother's boxing coach, who had not seen them in a few years at the time of the bombings, said that "the young brother was like a puppy dog, following his older brother".[48][49]

I am going to say that the violent history, and the cultural confusion could have really contributed to the criminal behaviors.

But no he was not a Russian any more than he is (Really) an American. He may have a certificate that says he is an American, but his heart and soul are not.

Last edited by Void (2015-12-13 15:44:28)

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-13 16:46:23

Void wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Tsarnaev
The Tsarnaevs were forcibly moved from Chechnya to the Soviet republic of Kyrgyzstan in the years following World War II.[21] His father, Anzor Tsarnaev, is a Chechen, and his mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, is an Avar
Early life[edit]
Tsarnaev was born in Kyrgyzstan. As a child, he emigrated with his family to Russia and then, when he was eight years old, to the United States under political asylum. The family settled in Cambridge and became U.S. permanent residents in March 2007. He became a naturalized U.S. citizen on September 11, 2012, while in college.[1][34][38] His mother, Zubeidat, also became a naturalized U.S. citizen, but it is not clear if his father, Anzor, ever did. Tamerlan, his brother, was unable to naturalize expeditiously due to an investigation against him, which held up the citizenship process.[45] At Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, a public high school, he was an avid wrestler, captain of his high-school wrestling team, and a Greater Boston League winter all-star.[34][42] He sometimes worked as a lifeguard at Harvard University.[46]
In 2011, he contacted a professor at UMass Dartmouth who taught a class about Chechen history, expressing his interest in the topic.[47] He graduated from high school in 2011[34] and the city of Cambridge awarded him a $2,500 scholarship that year.[42] His brother's boxing coach, who had not seen them in a few years at the time of the bombings, said that "the young brother was like a puppy dog, following his older brother".[48][49]
I am going to say that the violent history, and the cultural confusion could have really contributed to the criminal behaviors.
But no he was not a Russian any more than he is (Really) an American. He may have a certificate that says he is an American, but his heart and soul are not.

Russia created the circumstances which created him!
I have an interesting question, if they are such fanatical Muslims, why did the immigrate to a country where the majority religion is Christianity, same a Russia, when they could have immigrated to the Middle East? They could have surrounded themselves with Muslims, and not blown up and murdered all of those Boston joggers! What I don't understand are those immigrants that hate us, if they hate us, why do they come here? Why don't they just go to those Muslim areas of the World? Why should we give refuge to Muslims that are fleeing some other Christian country to come here instead of to some Muslim country like Saudi Arabia or Turkey?

Void · 2015-12-13 21:51:59

I just posted two posts and deleted them. Maybe someone read them. Good then. Otherwise guess.

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-14 16:15:19

We have enough problems without importing other people's problems to add to our own. I do not want people wandering around and shooting other people at random such as happened in California, does that sound unreasonable to you or controversial? Anything that would shorten my lifespan, I'm against, and nuts on a religious mission to kill Americans would be in that category.

Void · 2015-12-14 17:46:43

Tom K. Said:

We have enough problems without importing other people's problems to add to our own. I do not want people wandering around and shooting other people at random such as happened in California, does that sound unreasonable to you or controversial? Anything that would shorten my lifespan, I'm against, and nuts on a religious mission to kill Americans would be in that category.

I very much support your attitude.

Why don't they ask people like me who is invited and who is not in the first place? Does that sound like a funny question? It shouldn't.

Well? Who the hell thinks they can just invite people we don't want?

The whole idea of America was to create a nation not like the old world. It is possible to hope that if you allow the tired and oppressed and so on they might have fair chances of working out.

Otherwise replace the statue of liberty (Which is not essential to the American notion), with the statue of oppression, and invite all of them in, and while you are at it do gun control, and indenture the locals to a middle eastern master, because that is the only realty that they think is correct.

You, (The quislings and collaborators that are holding us down to be raped), should understand what a demon is. You will be held responsible in the end just like all quislings and collaborators.

And as for the Sugar Babies (People who take money and gifts from Middle Eastern and other Sugar Daddies), they should be identified, and held to a very deep suspicion of being against the interests of the American people. This includes people in the environmentalist 5th column who try to stifle our energy independence. Having said that I actually support the evolution away from pollution, as it is also in the interest of the USA and the whole planet. But I do not support OPEC's plan for environmentalism for the USA.

Just my opinion, hope

Bet you didn't think someone like me would point my bayonet the same way you would did you Tom?

Last edited by Void (2015-12-14 18:05:36)

Tom Kalbfus · 2015-12-15 12:14:13

The idea behind isolationism as it was in the 1930s, even though it was incorrect, was that there are two oceans to protect us, and that we shouldn't get involved in the affairs of the world and be dragged into wars. Bringing refugees and immigrants from those war torn regions and they bring those wars to our shores, this pretty much undermines this argument. Isolationism only works if you keep that which the oceans separate from us separate. On the other side of the coin, if we are going to bring the "Middle east" here, we might as well keep our soldiers in the Middle east to suppress the warfare that goes on there, our soldiers are much less vulnerable than we are. I'd rather our soldiers die patrolling a foreign street, than have radicals come here and shoot up our civilians. It seems to me that Obama's foreign policy is not designed to keep us out of those middle east wars, it is only designed to prevent us from winning them.

Void · 2015-12-15 13:31:40

I don't advocate isolationism, except by degree as a prescription.

Rather I advocate taking a favorable posture. Exploiting strengths. I actually think that we are favored from here, but not without challenges. I don't thinking leading with our chin is a good way to intimidate those who want to hurt us.

I don't think we need much immigration at this time, and certainly we should not want to import the dead bones of cultures which smothered on their own evil. They are not useful to us, they are not useful to the greater human purpose, and in truth by stopping them from eating and killing our culture we offer to them also the possibility that eventually the living parts of humanity will be able to rehabilitate them. But they are far too much of a burden now. Like a drowning swimmer, they might pull us to our death as well, if we don't protect what has value in our cultures now. Then there would be no hope for anyone.

As for Energy, we are in luck, but we have to exploit that good fortune to cash in on it.

OPEC's latest move to attempt to recapture market, is only partially successful. It is highly unlikely that they will permanently kill the oil fracking industry. I could be confused, and perhaps will be corrected, but I think what they are really terrified of is our liquid natural gas potential from fracking. It is a massive amount from tight gas, but I do believe that I read that normal natural gas formations can be drilled using fracking with massively increased output.

COAL is already an outdated fuel to some extent. For two reasons. #1, it is just not as attractive as oil and natural gas at the current availability and pricing. #2, popular global culture holds that it is very dangerous to the proposed greenhouse effect situation.

While it may be economically and culturally important to the human race to regulate global climate, that is not what I care about in this calculation. What I care about is that if people believe that global warming is real, then burning Carbon is a global political football.

You can be sure that OPEC has intended to kill the coal industry, and not only with low oil prices, but also I will bet you can find there "Sugar Babies" in our environmental movement, a 5th column attempting to cripple our people into bondage to OIL of OPEC.

We have always had to fend off totalitarianism. These peoples who are attracted to it are also attracted at a fetish level, to the need to dominate and control the "Lower" minions. And the Middle East breeds them like wildfire. Unfortunately for them they are also rather stupid, and we can tip them over rather easily most times.

Stalin was an example of a person coming from the Old Old world and rising to rule over a somewhat newer population.

They wish to indicate that they are going to make sure that you get a share of the pie. Only thing is they take your piece of pie, slice off some for themselves, and for their cronies, and then sure you might get a sliver of pie. Only thing is they are always trying to breed a peasant which can live on little or no pie at all. Eventually they succeed. Dead peasants don't eat any pie.

Back to fuels:
It turns out that the USA and perhaps the world can easily meet the requirements for the reduction in Carbon, by moving to natural gas and renewables. There is also a very good chance that we the USA could export liquid natural gas, to Europe.

We could get paranoid about that where we might think that then our local natural gas prices will go up, but I think on balance it can be a good financial move.

While wars can be a good way to test and advertise military equipment to sell to other nations, I think that the cost to our culture and finances from the two gulf wars has been massive, and we could use some healing space. We may very well have opportunity to mend our finances using natural gas, and renewable energy.

We should try to time our sale of natural gas to the window of opportunity for it's sale. Just like COAL will most likely mostly stay in the ground now, OIL will follow that same pattern eventually, and finally Natural Gas.

We should get our bucks out of it while we can and at the same time do an end run around the environmentalists. Preserve and build our industrial and technological capabilities, and prosper.

We are poised perfectly in so many other ways, the main problem we have is that there are some people who's reality is outdated who keep trying to maintain a time dam, and keep us locked into a previous reality.

And oh!!!!
Why didn't I get any commentary about pushing liquid air down into a fracked rock zone? Make the liquid air with windmills, and push the liquid air down into rock that is at least 160 Degrees F. This then might provide a reservoir that evens out power availability and connects in through time to power need. The energy extracted would be part wind and part geothermal.

Fracking I bet could go much deeper to hotter layers as well I am sure.

And what about this wrinkle for Mars:
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/51 … -fracking/
Yes, I understand that dogma says no hydrocarbons on Mars, but here I am talking about geothermal energy. Push liquid CO2 down, exhaust gas CO2 through a turbine.

(And by the way, if a large https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonaceous_chondrite impacts Mars, the fractured rock will contain natural gas and perhaps oil as well, since the impact will heat the materials to bake it out).

Plus Serpentization also creates natural gas and perhaps even oil with or without microbes being present.

Why no comments?

Last edited by Void (2015-12-15 14:22:57)

GW Johnson · 2015-12-15 15:53:53

Void:

If there actually are any hydrocarbon resources on Mars (and I'm not saying there are or aren't), you cannot use them in situ for the same purposes we use the bulk of them here. There's no oxygen to burn them with. Making oxygen requires more energy than the resource is worth as a fuel. So that's a pointless thing. Now as a chemical resource, they are tremendously useful, but by and large, all those processes are massively endothermic.

What that says, is that you need a tremendously-powerful source of energy to create useful chemicals on Mars, and that source of energy is missing. Solar is half as powerful there as here, and even here it cannot fill that job. The air is too thin on Mars to get significant wind energy; and wind can't do the job here either.

Same argument goes for geothermal: not enough locations that are both reachable and very hot, plus, where do you get the power to do the deep drilling? Doesn't supply much of civilization's needs here because it really can't. I'd be rather surprised if the situation is any different on Mars, even with beneficial changes in working fluid.

That pretty much leaves nuclear as a known powerful source. There looks to be thorium on Mars, which means that thorium fission power should be a rather powerful and concentrated source of energy that could enable some of these other processes being discussed in this thread. It means we need a working and routinely-reliable thorium reactor technology. Something we don't quite have here, although the Indians, Germans, and (I think) a third nation is actively working on.

The US is not working on it. We don't even recycle our uranium fuels, which I find an utterly stupid, totally head-up-the-ass policy, in hindsight. It began in the 1950's because of military demands that every reactor produce weapons-related stuff they could use. That is also why we didn't do thorium long ago. No weapons-grade anything from that.

Whoever goes to Mars, whenever they actually go to stay, I'd almost bet takes a big thorium reactor for the colony power plant. And as local Mars industry sprouts as the years go by, you'll see that power source duplicated. That'll carry the day until controlled fusion is actually achieved in some practical way. I've been following fusion since the 1950's, and nobody is all that close yet, so don't hold your breath for it. Go with what you know works.

I think the thorium reactor technology is really a breeder reactor technology: making U-233 out of Th-232. That has to bootstrap-up from current U-235/Pu-239 technologies, until you have sufficient U-233 on hand to serve, without depending on the more dangerous stuff.

But you will always be operating a breeder to make your U-233, even if the "hot core" is also U-233. To the best of my knowledge, Th-232 is not a fissionable material. I might be wrong, it's a bit outside my field of engineering, though.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2015-12-15 15:58:18)

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