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#201 2008-04-30 22:55:15

RedStreak
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

Yeah...definetely impressive payload.  I got this from JPL's Cassini Spacecraft Introduction page so we have some numbers to crunch for payloads to consider for Ares V:

At a Glance 


Dimensions: 6.7 meters (22 feet) high; 4 meters (13.1 feet) wide
Weight: 5,712 kilograms (12,593 pounds) with fuel, Huygens probe, adapter, etc; 2,125
kilograms (4,685 pounds) unfueled orbiter alone
Orbiter science instruments: composite infrared spectrometer, imaging system, ultraviolet imaging spectrograph, visual and infrared mapping spectrometer, imaging radar, radio science, plasma spectrometer, cosmic dust analyzer, ion and neutral mass spectrometer, magnetometer, magnetospheric imaging instrument, radio and plasma wave science
Power: 885 watts (633 watts at end of mission) from radioisotope thermoelectric generators

Cassini's ~12,600 pounds translates to 6.3 tons with a full fuel load included.  And what was that lovely number your stated for TLI mass cyclops?  65 tons?  So at the least something like Cassini could have been sent to Saturn with a couple extra 'toys' with ease by Ares V right?  8)

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#202 2008-05-01 18:40:47

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

It's a trade off between payload mass and DV. More DV is needed to climb out of the Sun's gravity well. More DV will also reduce travel time but unless aerocapture can be made to work, more DV is needed to slow down again.
The rocket equation gives an approximate solution:

payload/initial mass  = e^(-DV/3500) for LOX/LH2, DV in meters/sec


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#203 2008-05-08 12:03:41

RedStreak
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

More talk on Ares V as a booster: NASA’s Big Booster: Boon or Bust for Space Science?

At this point, the report explains, NASA doesn’t have reliable price tag info on the Ares V.

But given its development, the report spotlights a number of vision missions that might benefit from the opportunities enabled by the Constellation system, and are therefore deserving of future study, such as the Modern Universe Space Telescope, a Stellar Imager, an Interstellar Probe mission, Solar Polar Imager, Neptune Orbiter with Probes, and a Titan Explorer.

The committee believes that Ares V offers the greatest potential for an impact on science. The big launcher would be capable of hurling large-diameter, large-volume, heavy spacecraft into orbit, seemingly removing the physical — although not the financial — constraints on missions that would benefit from being able to fly large, heavy payloads to their destinations.

But the report stresses that using the Ares V could have a potentially dramatic effect on the price tags of these missions. That is, incorporating the use of an expensive launch vehicle could increase costs. But it could also possibly balance increased costs by simplifying mission design - for instance, by cutting out the requirement for on-orbit assembly or eliminating complicated deployment mechanisms.

The committee found that the greatly increased payload lift capacity promised by Ares V could lead to more costly science payloads.

Also, it was determined that the Ares 1 capabilities are not sufficiently distinct from those of Atlas V and Delta IV to enable different types or a higher quality of space science missions.

So the Ares V has great potential whereas the Ares I is limited, barring it turning out to be cheaper than Altas or Delta.

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#204 2008-05-08 12:48:49

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

Good find RedStreak,

Instead of giving a link to the actual source, it just rehashes & pastes parts of the report summary (PDF)

The full report is readable online here (the book PDF can be downloaded free with a simple registration)

One odd aspect of the report is that they did not have an estimate of the cost of Ares V, yet much of the report is about costs. Also the logic seems backwards: it's a disadvantage that the bigger missions enabled by Ares V will cost more, duh!

There are fantastically expensive projects there, many over $5 billion; the cost of the launcher is not going to be the biggest factor.

Ares V with a Centaur upper stage can get the Interstellar Probe Mission out to 200 AU in 23 years!


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#205 2008-05-08 14:14:26

RedStreak
Member
From: Illinois
Registered: 2006-05-12
Posts: 541

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

Personally the missions that should get automatic Ares V approval would be the Neptune Orbiter and the single-mirror optical telescope (there seem to be many variations of same thing  tongue  ), a visual counterpart to the infrared Webb.

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#206 2008-05-19 16:40:10

heroineworshipper
Member
From: Calif*
Registered: 2008-05-19
Posts: 1

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

All for making the rocket bigger, as long as the voters fund it.  Unfortunately when something like this keeps getting bigger & more expensive, the chances of it ever happening get smaller & smaller.

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#207 2008-05-20 01:36:08

cIclops
Member
Registered: 2005-06-16
Posts: 3,230

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

Hi heroineworshipper and welcome!

That's the rub and the trade off between cost and capability. NASA has time to get it right as there's not enough funding to even begin preliminary design for years.


Let's go to Mars and far beyond -  triple NASA's budget !   #space channel !!    - videos !!!

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#208 2018-12-28 12:33:11

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,200

Re: Ares V (CaLV) - status

I should not be surprised that the work done from the past was moved to the right as we progressed for SLS build.

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