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What you've done here is called "guilty by association." You've assumed several things about Obama based on the views of a long-time friend of his. He actually addressed this yesterday in a very good speech about race relations, but I'm sure you'll dismiss it as "pandering." If you're going to have that kind of extremely cynical mind-set in regards to Obama, claiming that you can't believe anything he says because he's "power-hungry," then the only fair thing to do would be to apply that same cynicism to every candidate. And if you do that, then there's really no point in participating in the Democratic process because then there’s no reason for you to believe anything any politician says ever. So why even bother voting?
We are not assigning guilt by association. Obama's own actions do this for him. Unless your willing to believe that Mr. Wright ONLY used that kind racist rhetoric on Sundays when Obama wasn't there, and such an uncanny coincidence persisted for the 20 years Obama claims to have been a member.
Hillary has a term for this. It's called the willful suspension of disbelief.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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"Senator, what about reports that you are unpatriotic?"
"What do you mean unpatriotic? I have my pin right here!"
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
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Obama's own actions do this for him. Unless your willing to believe that Mr. Wright ONLY used that kind racist rhetoric on Sundays when Obama wasn't there,
If you had watched and listened to his speech, you would have your answer. Here are some links:
If you truly believe that someone as ignorant as a racist is capable of showing this kind of deep understanding of race issues, then you are beyond reason, and there is absolutely no point arguing with you.
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Being a racist may fly in some countries when the racist is a member of the majority race or ethnic group, but not when the racist is a minority member disliking the majority.
I agree that racism is racism whether its a minority or a majority. But don't you see how telling people to "go be with your own kind" might not be the best solution to racial tension?
I realize blacks have had it hard in the past in the USA and they were discriminated against, but that doesn't make it more likely that I would vote for someone who isn't patriotic, hates this country and my race.
What you've done here is called "guilty by association." You've assumed several things about Obama based on the views of a long-time friend of his. He actually addressed this yesterday in a very good speech about race relations, but I'm sure you'll dismiss it as "pandering." If you're going to have that kind of extremely cynical mind-set in regards to Obama, claiming that you can't believe anything he says because he's "power-hungry," then the only fair thing to do would be to apply that same cynicism to every candidate. And if you do that, then there's really no point in participating in the Democratic process because then there’s no reason for you to believe anything any politician says ever. So why even bother voting?
"The fact is that the comments that have been made on the issues that have surfaced over the past few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country we've never really worked through... And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together to solve challenges like helth-care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American."
-Barack Obama, 3/18/08[sarcasm]Yeah, what an unpatriotic racist. He should go back to Africa.[/sarcasm]
Just imagine the race of the candidate is white for a moment, and he has a preacher, he is the leader of a local chapter of the Aryan Nations - a church that believes that white people are God's chosen people. The preacher rants about how this nation much be cleansed of impure races or that a seperate whites only nation ought to be formed out of part of the United States, and this politician attends every sermon, but he says he doesn't agree with the man's politics, its just that he is an old family friend and says that he would no more disown him than he would his own uncle. The Politician further makes a speech saying that he is not a racist, and makes excuses for this white guy saying that he was part of the old "Jim Crow" south in the 1960s and is used to black folk being respectful of whites and keeping to the back of the bus and using seperate toilet facilities, and asks for the audiences "understanding" for this preachers feelings. Would you vote for this man? I wouldn't
Remember, this is not guilt by association, the Presidency is not a right, this is a hiring decision, and if there is a chance that this person hates America, would you want to risk having this guy get his finger on the nuclear button? A man is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but not electing somebody to the highest office in the land is not punishment. You have to convince me and the rest of the public that this man is worthy of being President, there is no automatic assumption that he is. If there is circumstantial evidence that raises doubt, then it is up to the politician to lay those doubts to rest and thus demonstrate why he should be President instead of the other guy. The Presidency is not an Affirmative Action Program, and I don't think anyone should every end up as President just because he or she is black or a woman, or because of "white guilt" due to past wrongs done to his ethnic group or gender. that's willing to take action against discrimination.
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Yeah, what an unpatriotic racist. He should go back to Africa.
Dosent that contradict your argument, or may other arguments here, after all its not fight fire with fire situation, you cant fight prejudice with some.
If the man hates his country, yet nonetheless craves the power of high office, and it comes out that he does hate his country, doesn't it stand to reason that he should find a country that he doesn't hate and possible run for high office in that land.
A minority is a minority, and if he isn't prepared to get along with the majority in that country, he shouldn't expect to be elected by that majority unless he fools them into thinking he is something other than who he actually is. Blacks who hate whites really have no business living in the United States, the majority of whose population is white, this is as logical as someone who hates Chinese not living in China. I often hear of these Americans who have all thses terrible things to say about their own country, and they have no immediate prospect of changing it to their liking. No matter how long that preacher preaches there is nothing America can do that will satisfy him short of ceasing to exist, and its not going to do that, the only other thing the Preacher can do is go to Africa and live with his own kind, since he is such a bigot and unwilling to get along with white people.
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"Senator, what about reports that you are unpatriotic?"
"What do you mean unpatriotic? I have my pin right here!"
There is a logical fallacy here, its not so much that he refuses to wear the pin but that he points out the fact that he refuses to wear the pin in protest of the war. That refusal and his pointing out that fact is an indicator of his lack of patriotism, as the American Flag is not in fact a symbol of the Iraq War but of the United States.
One can always disingenuously wrap himself in the flag in insincere patriotism to get elected, but it seems to me that Obama when to some pains to stress that he deliberately does not display the flag on his lapel, apparently that is a message signaling what he feels about this country, it is a source of power and a means of delivering services and assistance to his core constituent groups, but what does he feel about this country in general beside just getting votes from key voters whom he panders to?
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Obama's own actions do this for him. Unless your willing to believe that Mr. Wright ONLY used that kind racist rhetoric on Sundays when Obama wasn't there,
If you had watched and listened to his speech, you would have your answer. Here are some links:
If you truly believe that someone as ignorant as a racist is capable of showing this kind of deep understanding of race issues, then you are beyond reason, and there is absolutely no point arguing with you.
Some racists have been clever speakers with lots of Charisma, one of whom was Adolf Hitler, if there is a chance of someone like that sitting in the White House, I don't want to take it. If someone says one thing yet does another and does not renounce entirely what he has done, I don't want to take any chances with him, even if I risk being unfair or misjudging his character. It is his take to convince me and other voters to elect him, I will not cut him or any preacher some "slack", as governor Huckabee says, no one deserves the benefit of the doubt in becoming President, they have to overcome public doubts in becoming President through positive arguments.
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Here's the source material in a format we can all enjoy.
Look, I know Obama has devoted following of people who think he belches puppies and sunshine, but there is nothing in there except excuses and the same tired old liberal class warfare rhetoric that even makes this an issue in the first place.
Religion is suppose to be the search for eternal truth that applies equally to everyone, and if Obama says he routinely disagrees with Wright on the tactical, political applications of Christian principles, something tells me he's not there for the theology, but for the weekly socio-economic pep rally, or perhaps more accurately, two minute hate. Mrs. Obamas statements would seem to confirm this.
The fact Obama is so quick to jettison race in a race speech in favor of class should tell you that race is not the controlling social factor. That black people had the misfortune of receiving all their civil rights at the same time as liberals were putting everyone on welfare only proves that blacks are just as much, and by the numbers disproportionately more, the victims of those policies as anyone else who was poor at the time.
To Mr. Wrights credit, he at least has a clue that blacks and the poor in general have not gotten what they have been promised by their favorite political party. They however have gotten all they the democrats can and ever will deliver, as neither the country nor the party afford what they promise, cause neither would exist if they really tried. This is were Mr. Wright loses it, and with Obama still spouting the same failed policies, he is apparently incapable of any better.
Whether or not Obama can personally separate class as race remains to be seen, but his wife clearly can not. His policies do not. And that is what makes him unsuitable for public office.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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Some racists have been clever speakers with lots of Charisma, one of whom was Adolf Hitler, if there is a chance of someone like that sitting in the White House, I don't want to take it.
You forget. Adolf Hitler was VERY open about his racism. It was the basis of his campaign. Are you suggesting that Obama is some sort of evil mastermind? Secretly plotting to destroy white people with a public policy of understanding? Then you sir, have never met a racist. Racism is born from ignorance. Nobody as willfully ignorant as a racist would be capable of showing that kind of deep social understanding.
If someone says one thing yet does another and does not renounce entirely what he has done, I don't want to take any chances with him, even if I risk being unfair or misjudging his character.
I'm confused, when exactly did Obama "say" anything racist?
Also, what's wrong with being "fair?" Being fair would only mean that you've applied that same doubt and cynicism to every candidate. Have you done that? John McCain has "flip-floped" on trivial issues too, why aren't you on here ranting about him?
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"Senator, what about reports that you are unpatriotic?"
"What do you mean unpatriotic? I have my pin right here!"There is a logical fallacy here, its not so much that he refuses to wear the pin but that he points out the fact that he refuses to wear the pin in protest of the war. That refusal and his pointing out that fact is an indicator of his lack of patriotism, as the American Flag is not in fact a symbol of the Iraq War but of the United States.
One can always disingenuously wrap himself in the flag in insincere patriotism to get elected, but it seems to me that Obama when to some pains to stress that he deliberately does not display the flag on his lapel, apparently that is a message signaling what he feels about this country, it is a source of power and a means of delivering services and assistance to his core constituent groups, but what does he feel about this country in general beside just getting votes from key voters whom he panders to?
If there is a Logical Fallacy it is that wearing a flag lapel pin is or is not a sign of patriotism. Obviously patrotisim should be defined by ones actions, and not by the presence of absence of an artical of clothing.
As for his going to 'some pains to stress that he deliberately does not display the flag on his lapel' Senator Obama did no such thing. Its not like he got up on the stump and delivered a speach on it or something. He was asked by a reporter about why he wasn't wearing a pin (as you know everything about the candidates is super analyzed) and gave an in depth answer as to his reasonings why not. Its not so much a war protest (what a silly way to protest a war), but recognition that wearing a pin is not a substitute for true patriotism.
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The real issue here is not so much a pin (at least I hope not), but a difference in what you and Senator Obama think patriotism means. To you patriotism apparently means supporting the government 100%, even when they take actions you disagree with and not speaking up when you have problems with government actions. And especially, 'well if you don't like things here in America, leave! (Go back to Africa even, as if they weren't brought over in chains in the first place!).'
Obama is probably more in agreement with these quotes.
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country.
Indeed it seems to me that often times a war protester can be the most patriotic person of all. To be able to admit the faults in your country and still struggle to change them seems to be the essence of patriotisms to me.
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
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Obama doesn't wear a pin because he wishes to differentiate himself from those who do, who support the war on Islamic fascism, particularly the war in Iraq. Thats fine.
People only question his patriotism when they take a good hard look at the policies he's suggesting, and our enemies say that his policies help them reach their goals.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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Obama doesn't wear a pin because he wishes to differentiate himself from those who do, who support the war on Islamic fascism, particularly the war in Iraq. Thats fine.
The war in Iraq is over, don't you remember when the president landed on the air-craft carrier under the big sign that read 'Mission Accomplished.' What we have now is the occupation of Iraq. How exactly this is fighting the terrorist is a bit hard to tell. Though this is probably off topic.
People only question his patriotism when they take a good hard look at the policies he's suggesting, and our enemies say that his policies help them reach their goals.
Osama bin Laden has also said that the Invasion of Iraq helped fulfill his goals. I question the wisdom of taking policy advice from terrorists.
In any case while rational people may disagree about the best choice of US policy, I don't believe this is a question of patriotism. To seek to change US policy is not unpatrotic.
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
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What we have now is the occupation of Iraq. How exactly this is fighting the terrorist is a bit hard to tell.
Hussein's regime was very successful in keeping terrorists out.
We removed the regime, so the terrorists moved in.
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Well on the war on iraq, it could be said to have fullfiled its purpose, not to bring democracy or weapons of mass destruction becouse that was a charade, but it has secured oil supplies for the future in a more (in the future) stable nation without any risk of the supply being cut off.
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Democracy is two foxes and a rabbit discussing what to have for dinner, Liberty is the rabbit coming back with a gun and asking what they're having for dinner.
Obama will never get in. Clinton will never get in. Whatever the lefties say, it's nothing to do with racism or sexism. It's simply that the American public will never vote for a so-called 'democrat'. How many people would vote for Condeleeza Rice if she'd have stood? Loads. I wish she had, simply to prove it was nothing to do with 'Racism' or 'Sexism'. This thread is null and void.
Well, that's my Nickle.
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The war in Iraq is over, don't you remember when the president landed on the air-craft carrier under the big sign that read 'Mission Accomplished.' What we have now is the occupation of Iraq. How exactly this is fighting the terrorist is a bit hard to tell. Though this is probably off topic.
What we have is a large peacekeeping mission at the invite of the elected government. Not at all unlike the dozens of operations in the Balkins in the 90's. For some reason, those operations were never called occupations.
Osama bin Laden has also said that the Invasion of Iraq helped fulfill his goals. I question the wisdom of taking policy advice from terrorists.
In any case while rational people may disagree about the best choice of US policy, I don't believe this is a question of patriotism. To seek to change US policy is not unpatrotic.
What it did do do is force Osama to engage us in Iraq to try to foil our efforts, because our ultimate successes would be a blow to his ideology. If you really think the Osama wouldn't try to do what says he would, please say so.
Again, what is one to conclude if the policies he stands for are blatantly harmful?
Hussein's regime was very successful in keeping terrorists out.
We removed the regime, so the terrorists moved in.
Terrorist don't like competition. Unless they worked for him. Despite not being the Sunni Koran thumper the Osama would liked, he still persecuted the Shiite majority. Ultimately its a different edge to the same sword.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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Obama doesn't wear a pin because he wishes to differentiate himself from those who do, who support the war on Islamic fascism, particularly the war in Iraq. Thats fine.
The war in Iraq is over, don't you remember when the president landed on the air-craft carrier under the big sign that read 'Mission Accomplished.' What we have now is the occupation of Iraq. How exactly this is fighting the terrorist is a bit hard to tell. Though this is probably off topic.
People only question his patriotism when they take a good hard look at the policies he's suggesting, and our enemies say that his policies help them reach their goals.
Osama bin Laden has also said that the Invasion of Iraq helped fulfill his goals. I question the wisdom of taking policy advice from terrorists.
In any case while rational people may disagree about the best choice of US policy, I don't believe this is a question of patriotism. To seek to change US policy is not unpatrotic.
I wonder whay Harry S. Truman, a Democrat, would say about that?
Did he immediately bring all US troops in Europe home immedately after the Germans signed the Surrender Document? Did he leave Europe to the Russians? I'm sure Stalin would have been happy if Harry S. Truman immediately declared victory and brought all US troops home.
What about Japan, we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the Japanese signed the Surrender document, did all US troops return home right then. Were the Japanese looking around afterwards wondering where all the Americans went?
The thing that gets me is the last wise Democrat was Lyndon Bains Johnson, after him we've had a pack of fools running for President with idealistic anti-war notions that don't work in the real world. Remember Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton? Now we have a candidate who embraces racism and antipatriotism oozes out of his pores.
George W. Bush wouldn't be caught dead attending as sermon from such a preacher as Wright.
If one has ambivilent feelings about one's country, he shouldn't be running for President.
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Now we have a candidate who embraces racism and antipatriotism oozes out of his pores.
His alleged "antipatriotism" is strongly based on your (and only your) definition of the word. And you've still failed to explain exactly what makes him a racist. Just give me a quote where Obama is giving a hate speech. Not some quote mine from an old friend of his.
George W. Bush wouldn't be caught dead attending as sermon from such a preacher as Wright.
And yet, he had no problem allying himself with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Preachers who blamed 9/11 on "the gays," preachers who have no qualms with praying for God to kill judges so Bush can appoint Christian ones, preachers who have (and one who continues to) actively try to dismantle the first amendment.
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Regarding "Rev." Wright, apparently he's willfully disregarded (or is ignorant of) the fact that the Midwestern states which Obama won (Iowa in particular) are mostly populated by whites; Iowa alone is 94% white. Dare I say if it weren't for white peoples' votes, Obama wouldn't have made it this far?
I find it disingenuous that Obama only now is referring to Wright as "my former pastor." And if Wright hates the US so much, what was he doing on Obama's campaign in an official capacity? Why did Obama approve of Wright's presence on his campaign? He's only "off" the campaign because of video; he got found out.
I was rather taken with Obama's candidacy and was considering yes, perhaps I will vote for him instead of McCain. But now? Nope.
What a pity overall.
Bill from Chicago used to post here, and he was greatly in favor of Obama years ago [2005?]. Can't help wondering what his reaction is now.
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
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It would be interesting to know who else is lurking in Obama's campaign and what their agendas are, there must be dozens of backers supporting him.
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Now we have a candidate who embraces racism and antipatriotism oozes out of his pores.
His alleged "antipatriotism" is strongly based on your (and only your) definition of the word. And you've still failed to explain exactly what makes him a racist. Just give me a quote where Obama is giving a hate speech. Not some quote mine from an old friend of his.
George W. Bush wouldn't be caught dead attending as sermon from such a preacher as Wright.
And yet, he had no problem allying himself with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Preachers who blamed 9/11 on "the gays," preachers who have no qualms with praying for God to kill judges so Bush can appoint Christian ones, preachers who have (and one who continues to) actively try to dismantle the first amendment.
How many Sermons of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell has George Bush attended, how many of those sermons did he attend where Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson said, "God Damn America!" and sing the praises of Colonel Mummar Kadaffi, The Palestinian resistance etc.? At least Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell believe in the country they live in, and if they did not, they would no doubt move. Reverend Wright does nothing but complain about the Imperial United States and how it oppresses poor folk in the Third World, yet, nobody is keeping him here, yet he stays. I think if someone has a problem with the United States, he should leave it and quit complaining. If blacks are being oppressed in the United States, they can leave and seek their freedom and opportunities in Africa, no one is keeping them here, they aren't in chains. If they really are hard up to afford the one-way tickets out of this country, they should pass the hat around, I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to contribute to get rid of them once and for all.
Obama must not like the United States very much to listen to this preacher's ranting and railing against the United States for 20 years. It seems that between Obama's lack of Patriotism and Hillary's lack of honesty, they are just about handing the Presidency to John McCain who effectively has no competition for the position, all he has to do is look reasonable, while the others go off the deep left end.
I think the Democratic Party is in trouble if they can't come up with candidates better than this. If the Liberal movement is to survive at all, they must align themselves with the country they live in, instead of all this fashionable Anti-American Garbage that comes out of Obama's Preacher's mouth. The Democrats should really look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they really want to be the "hate America" party.
Part of it is white guilt I'm sure, and I'm sure there is more white guilt in the South than the North. My ancestors fought against slavery after all, not to perpetuate it, they sacrificed and I feel I don't owe the slave's decendents one thin dime. A person shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of one's ancestors in any case. I don't think I owe any black man the Presidency just because he's black or to make of for generations of slavery in the deep past.
The past is past, lets turn the page, and if a black candidate is resentful of past injustices and doesn't appreciate the country he lives in because of that, I understand, but he shouldn't be running for president if he feels that way, and I'm not going to vote for him. I want to vote for the person who I feel has the best interests of the country at heart, and who will move the country forward, to do that he must be a patriot, and if he's not, he should find another country that he does appreciate. We're not perfect, we came from flawed beginnings, but what country hasn't? All we have to deal with is the now, and punishing ourselves won't make up for past wrongs. The only thing to do about past racism is not to be racist now, to treat everybody the same, if that's not good enough for them, then too bad, they can find another country that perhaps is willing to treat them as royalty. I think we treat the American Indians too much as nobility as it is. We have the country we got now however it came to be, so lets make the best of it.
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It would be interesting to know who else is lurking in Obama's campaign and what their agendas are, there must be dozens of backers supporting him.
The Iranian President endorsed him, and no doubt the Iranian President has the best interests of the United States at heart.
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A difference should be pointed out, imo: If a person or group criticizes something about the US in a constructive way with the intention of bettering the nation for all...that's one thing.
But otherwise? Yes (regardless of color, ethnicity, whatever) if they're THAT disgruntled with the US and hate it...leave. Who's making them stay? It's a big world out there; surely they can find some place more pleasing/fitting to live.
Consider it like a divorce: If there's irreconcilable differences and animosity, end the relationship.
An acquaintance of my husband's from Mexico has recently become a US citizen. Now all he does is complain and whine. Well, Mexico is still there and only 50 miles away...
::Edit:: What particularly troubles me about the Obama situation is a lot of Americans don't seem to care that he was/is affiliated with an anti-American church for 20 years. Hello??
I really do not understand this. Is it self-loathing/hatred as a result of the ongoing Iraq War?
We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...
--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)
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::Edit:: What particularly troubles me about the Obama situation is a lot of Americans don't seem to care that he was/is affiliated with an anti-American church for 20 years. Hello??
I really do not understand this. Is it self-loathing/hatred as a result of the ongoing Iraq War?
Half the democrats hate him already cause he's not Billary, at least half the electorate hates him because he thinks he's a "progressive", there isn't a whole lot of people out there who really expected better from him who arn't drinking his kool-aid. If this came to light after the election, it'd be a different story.
And yes, his political supporters, despite possibly cringing at the thought that their messiah to be is affiliated with a "Jesus freak", never the less agree with this particular "Jesus freak" on the issues in question.
I'm just waiting for someone, anyone, to suggest that a sermon with this kind of material may cross the line for tax exempt status. Cause you can be sure If it was a GOP candidate, the liberals would be looking cash.
"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane
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Obama must not like the United States very much to listen to this preacher's ranting and railing against the United States for 20 years.
In my experience, the more one knows about a subject, the more accurate one's judgment of that subject will be. Therefore, a judgment made about a person is less likely to be accurate if that judgment was made based on a 10 second sound bite. It is completely disingenuous to say that Wright has "ranted and railed" against the US for 20 years. When watched in their proper context, the two speeches quoted so often on the news don't seem so outrageous. In fact, I've only been able to find two speeches where he says anything even close to "anti-american." There are a great number of things he says in other sermons that I find myself agreeing with. And none of his sermons were the type of racist, anti-American "hate-speeches" that everyone loves to talk about. I can totally imagine someone joining his church based on the issues they do agree with while ignoring the issues they don't.
If blacks are being oppressed in the United States, they can leave and seek their freedom and opportunities in Africa, no one is keeping them here, they aren't in chains.
I usually avoid political discussions on forums. This is why. Most people who start political discussions aren't at all interested in discussion. They've already made up their minds and are looking for people to agree with them. Because of this, they will continue to use a fallacious argument regardless of how many times it's been refuted. It's pretty obvious that I'm not going to convince you that Obama isn't the racist, unpatriotic, flag-burner you want him to be. So I guess the best thing to do would be to stop posting here and let the white guy keep complaining about how the ungrateful black people should shut up or go back to Africa. Have fun agreeing with yourselves.
"You can't reason someone out of something they weren't reasoned into."
-Mark Twain
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