My Hacienda On Mars

SpaceNut · 2020-08-29 08:03:06

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 04#p171604

RobertDyck wrote:

Using the 10% rule, I propose cabin use 2.7 psi partial pressure oxygen. Again, Boulder Colorado has 2.54 psi partial pressure oxygen, so this is not extreme. The rule is maximum partial pressure nitrogen in the higher pressure environment must be no greater than 1.2 times total pressure of the lower pressure environment. So with suit pressure of 3.0 psi, maximum partial pressure nitrogen the cabin is 3.6 psi. I propose using 3.5 psi to stay away from the extreme. Then add argon. Mars atmosphere has argon, Earth has argon. If we make the nitrogen:argon ratio the same as Mars ambient, then extracting it is easier. But on the ship we can use anything we want. Besides, percentage N2 and Ar in Mars atmosphere measured by Viking 2 lander in 1977 is not exactly the same as modern rovers. It appears gasses can vary from location to location, and year to year. I thought only CO2 would vary, but measurements by modern rovers show these two gasses vary a little as well. So if we add 1.148 psi partial pressure argon, that adds up to pressure 1/2 of Earth at sea level.
Summary:
2.7 psi O2
3.5 psi N2
1.148 psi Ar
Total: 7.348 psi total
Again, human metabolism will convert some O2 into CO2, and we exhale and sweat moisture so there will be some water vapour.

tahanson43206 wrote:

For RobertDyck re #208
Thanks for re-posting the summary of your paper at the Mars Society Conference!
I've added the specialty to My Hacienda ... Production of breathable atmosphere would be a steady employment for a fair number of folks.
SearchTerm:AtmosphereBreathable
SearchTerm:AirForBreathing
SearchTerm:ProcessToMakeAir
(th)

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ... Updated My Hacienda following your conversation with RobertDyck about making breathable atmosphere for Mars population
0104 Atmosphere(breathable air) supply vendor #1 (make breathable air from Mars atmosphere)
0105 Atmosphere(breathable air) supply vendor #3 (make breathable air from Mars atmosphere)
0106 Atmosphere(breathable air) supply vendor #3 (make breathable air from Mars atmosphere)
(th)

Optimal air pressures.. - Which is best? More O2 or more pressure?
in which is Identifing These plot registries have been marked
0041 Manufacture of atmosphere for habitats
0042 Manufacture of atmosphere for greenhouses
0043 Manufacture of atmosphere for specialized applications such as mobile transporters

SpaceNut · 2020-08-29 08:10:05

post covers Dry ice side use

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 19#p171619

rather than throw the dry ice out we need to let a moxie unit convert it to o2 in between each gas storage cycle as leaving it frozen in the tank would reduce the volume on each in take meaning increased energy cycles.

RobertDyck wrote:

The point of this was to harvest N2 and Ar. Robert Zubrin and his staff produced MACDOF (Mars Atmosphere Carbon DiOxide Freezer). MACDOF is far more energy efficient to harvest CO2. But all it collects is CO2. My design collects N2 and Ar. As I said, you could sublimate the dry ice to produce CO2 gas, and collect that separately. No point in throwing out dry ice, but do not think that dry ice is the primary purpose of this. But yes, you do have to sublimate the dry ice to remove it before the next cycle. Note: This will slowly collect water ice. After several cycles you will have to melt that and drain the water.
I didn't even bother calculating how much CO2 would be collected, or how that CO2 could be processed. The goal was N2 and Ar.

That's fine we have the standalone system designed to get what it's designed for.

If we also allow sublimation to generate power during the seperation process and them feed that power into moxie to get the bang for the buck as well just looking at the big picture.

The output from moxie is o2 and co which is vented to the atmosphere unless its proven to be a large enough quantity to save for a subsequence value....

https://cryocarb.com/dry-ice-faqs/

https://dryiceinfo.com/traveling.htm

https://www.dry-ice-machine.com/why-are … r-dry-ice/

https://www.nanocool.com/calculator

https://www.exportersindia.com/indian-s … achine.htm

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/5 … NG5rZC8%3D
ICE HANDBOOK FOR ENGINEERS

http://www.r744.com/files/pdf_088.pdf
Physical Properties of Carbon Dioxide

using CO2 Sublimation Heat Engine

co no need to dump Carbon and Carbon Monoxide

sublimation to compressed option Compressed gas energy storage.

Dry ice pneumatic tool

Steam powered rovers
covering compressed motorcycle, first law of thermodynamics, plus power generation

SpaceNut · 2020-08-29 16:41:41

https://www.linde-gas.com/en/images/LMB … 165650.pdf
Safety advice. Carbon Dioxide.

Gaseous state: at normal temperature (+15 °C) and atmospheric pressure, CO2 has a density of 1.87 kg/m3, is 1.5 times heavier than air
Liquid state: carbon dioxide can exist as a liquid below the critical temperature of 31°C and above the triple point with a temperature of -56.6 °C and 4.18 bar gauge, see also P-T-Diagram.
CO2 is transported, stored and handled in liquid form, either at ambient temperature (in cylinders or non-insulated storage tanks at a pressure of 45-65 bar) or refrigerated (in insulated tankers and storage tanks) at temperatures between -35 °C and -15 °C and pressures of 12 to 25 bar.

http://the-iceman.com/dry-ice/dry-ice-calculator/

https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest … emperature
How many dry ice produced by a 5lb co2 cylinder at 860 psi and room temperature (30 C)?

This question was not answered but the 5lb is or should be the same for all states of the co2 as the end is a change in volume at temperature and with temperature going negative the pressure go down as we change from gas, liquid and then to solid.

typical 5lb cylinder

Measuring 18 inches tall and 5.25 inches wide

other tank sizes
5-Lb-Co2-Tank-Dimensions.jpg.jpg

We will need pressure vessel when we run out of empty fuel tanks to use

tahanson43206 · 2020-08-29 18:06:43

For SpaceNut re #201

Thanks for catching the duplication of entries for atmosphere.

My procedure is to pull the PlotMaster down into a simple text editor, and to search for strings that would match a proposed new entry.

Obviously I missed searching for "atmosphere"

I'd like to propose changing the focus of 40, 41 and 42 slightly, from manufacturer to distributor.

The three new vendors just added can supply all three distributors. The division of labor should be helpful to the manufacturers, who can concentrate on their craft instead of worrying about sales and support at the retail level.

Edit#1:
0041 Distributor of atmosphere for habitats - includes sales and support functions
0042 Distributor of atmosphere for greenhouses - includes sales and support functions, as well as research to optimize gas mixtures
0043 Distributor of atmosphere for specialized applications such as mobile transporters and Space vehicles

For SpaceNut ... as we proceed, the PlotMaster should grow to look like a modern city on Earth.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-08-29 18:11:15)

SpaceNut · 2020-08-29 18:17:19

It seems that we have missed adding in the Balloon and Blimp manufacturing and power tether system which got quite a bit of discusion for powering equipment with a mobile delivery system.

Battery power construction equipment

Dirigibles on Mars - A practical means of transport?

Sure this from the venus ship topic but it can be altered for mars

I reminded of this topic: so copying your post to here,,,

Tom Kalbfus wrote:

Also remember half of the Sun's disk would be below the horizon at all times as the disk of the Sun slowly moves eastward along the horizon, it might even be cooler at the 55 km altitude at 1 atmosphere of pressure. I think the Sun would appear rather red as it does along our horizon. If the balloon is not tethered, it could use propellers to move away from the Sun, and thus make it appear to set, so there could be night, then it would turn around and head back towards the Sun for a Sunrise, that way we could have a normal 24-hour diurnal cycle. Maybe that's worth considering.

Doesn't say how fast these things move. I wonder how fast this airship would have to move to get the entire disk of the Sun below the horizon?

These folks may have to be couch potatoes. I wonder if they could have exercise equipment behind those chairs. I think a treadmill would be nice, they'd need a lavatory, and maybe a small kitchen in the back. Also when they flushed the toilet, where do you suppose the water would go? Probably get recycled I imagine, if the equipment to do that wasn't too heavy. The engines that propel the airship would be electrical, they would probably hear a whirr sort of like a giant fan. Do you think there would be handholds along the sides of the airships so astronauts can climb to the top of the gas bag in protective suits? If the airship climbs high enough, they can get a good view of the stars at night, as there never is a Moon to drown them out. Maybe they can set up a telescope on the top and look at the Earth.

tahanson43206 · 2020-08-29 19:50:23

For SpaceNut re #205

It would be fine with me if you were to add that specialization to the list ... The next available plot is 107.

In the archive there are a number of discussions about balloons on Mars.

In fact (come to think of it) Void's bubble idea led to quite a long discussion of the possibility of delivering supplies from orbit to Mars using balloons. My recollection is that GW Johnson did a thorough analysis that revealed the velocity of the balloon, if dropped directly from the altitude of Phobos, would exceed the heating capability of the fabric, and in any case there would not be enough atmosphere available for the balloon to slow due to buoyancy before it reached the surface.

I also recall several posts confirming that a sufficiently large hydrogen balloon could lift its own weight and a respectable payload. My recollection is that the dimensions of such a balloon would be in the range of the Hindenburg, and it would be limited to a small amount of elevation due to the very limited available lift at the surface.

Still, there is enough potential that it seems reasonable to include the specialty. If someone can make a go of it, more power to them.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-08-29 19:50:37)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-16 18:14:18

Human powered power generation for movement has sparked interest in bicycles and quadricycles and veomiles for a mars system of transportation.
These would make use of a variety of modes of operation and means to make the risk less involved for the proposed use there in.

Existing topics

Bikes on Mars? - Don't laugh! for 2 wheeled

Quadracycles for the 3 or 4 wheel trike or car

kbd512 wrote:

tahanson43206,
Is this going to be above or below ground?
If you expend the effort to create traffic tunnels, then why not use sealed pods and compressed CO2 like the system that the bank uses to transport money and paperwork in the drive-thru?

SpaceNut · 2020-09-16 18:15:21

Great questions for existing topics

tahanson43206 wrote:

For kbd512 re #151
Thanks for your question and your (to me very) interesting suggestion!
The below ground tunnels idea has been part of the My Hacienda concept since its beginning, but the idea itself may well go back far into the early years of the forum archive. That doesn't mean it will ever be implemented, of course, but it has precedent on Earth. Much of the infrastructure of older cities in Europe is built underground, and in the less ancient US, a city like New York has extensive underground infrastructure.
You are the first person I've seen suggest a "push" method of moving cars in underground tunnels. That is an interesting idea.
The usual (that I am familiar with) approach to that is to generate a vacuum to pull containers through a tunnel network.
Either method would work, of course, and I'd be quite interested in seeing an analysis of the pros and cons of each method.
The way you can tell you have a suction system is if you open the door to a port and it tries to pull you in << grin >>
We have digressed a bit from Bikes on Mars << grin >>
I was trying to stay on that lane with the follow on to your aerodynamic shaped passenger compartment.
(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-21 11:17:03

For SpaceNut .... added Geology services in support of Calliban's initiative to build habitats

0110 Geology Services in support of construction companies on Mars #1
0111 Geology Services in support of construction companies on Mars #2
0112 Geology Services in support of construction companies on Mars #3

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-21 16:39:31

I have include a link back to the above post prior to mine that includes the roaming need to explore for the geological purpose of find materials for the sustainability to build with those found resources found on the topics first page. The importance of geology goes beyond the initial finding as we will be looking at the chemistry as well from that same roaming exploration.
With the roaming finds we are putting up markers to allow for future use of these locations as defined by testing of the found resource.
So is this a gps beacon marker, a simple flag or some other method to identify the found resource.
For mars gps is sort of a must for accurate ability to land and locate these resources.
GPS satelite is a business unto itself and so would also be the manufacturing of the beacons that would be deployed.

Calliban · 2020-09-21 17:29:13

I like the idea of spirits production on Mars. Bottles of 21 year old malt whisky tend to sell for anywhere between £150-3,500 depending on the vintage and the distillery. A 70cl bottle will weigh about 1kg, glass included. If transport costs from Mars-Earth drop beneath $100/kg, Martian whisky is an export that could make money.

In some ways, Mars has advantages over Earth in terms of whisky maturation. Temperatures are generally colder, which reduces alcohol evapouration from the casks (the angel's share). This reduces whisky proof by about 1% per year in Scottish distilleries and even more in English and Welsh distilleries. Temperature and pressure swings will also be greater on Mars, which draws alcohol into and out of the wooden skin of the cask, which is what infuses the whisky with flavour.

Martian whisky, could be left in casks for 50 years and very little evapouration will occur. The resulting whisky will have a rich flavour and can be bottled at close to its original 60% cask strength - something that would be difficult to achieve on Earth. Mars whisky should fetch a premium, not just for its novelty, but also due to its quality.

It takes about 1kg of grain to produce 1 bottle of cask strength whisky. Yields of 4tonnes per acre should be achievable during the northern summer on Mars. It should be possible to produce 1 million bottles per year using just a few hundred acres of cultivated land. The only issue being that whisky maturation takes at least 3 years and for best results one must wait decades. This is a business model that requires generational thinking.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-09-21 17:32:16)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-21 18:28:34

For Calliban re #211

We had entered "Booze" as enterprise #0037, with a link to one of your posts.

If you want to take "ownership" of Plot0037, you would be the first person (other than SpaceNut) to do so.

I added two more similar ventures to the list, in the pattern of keeping competition thriving in the nascent community.

0113 Booze Spirits Whiskey Wine Beer Enterprise 2 of 3
0114 Booze Spirits Whiskey Wine Beer Enterprise 3 of 3

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-21 18:52:52

With any brewery you will need the source ingrediencies grown somewhere and then you need the actual brewery to make the flavor of the month in vats and save them to age in barrels and of course sell them off in kegs with a Mars brand....Oh a good source of water and lots of energy to bring it all to a boil, I think….
So while we will be dreaming of self medication there is a ton of work to make a distillery functional.

Here is the Booze topic
Cheers

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-22 10:49:13

For SpaceNut ...

Added Appliance distribution/manufacture/support

0115 Appliance Distributor (imported and domestic) 1 of 3
0116 Appliance Distributor (imported and domestic) 2 of 3
0117 Appliance Distributor (imported and domestic) 3 of 3
0118 Appliance Manufacturer 1 of 3
0119 Appliance Manufacturer 2 of 3
0120 Appliance Manufacturer 3 of 3

(th)

Calliban · 2020-09-22 14:54:04

Addressing post 207. Pneumatic transport, that is to say a vehicle pushed along by differential pressure, is definitely an option worth considering on Mars. The interesting thing about the idea is that the vehicle need not carry its own power supply. A rail based or wheeled vehicle propelled by differential pressure could simply be a set of carriages, equipped with brakes to control its speed.

On Earth, atmospheric railways have found niche applications, but were largely rendered obsolete following the application of electricity to railways. However, small pneumatic pipelines carrying wheeled vehicles could be very useful for transporting bulk materials on both Earth and Mars. A square conduit just 20cm wide, carrying wheeled vehicles at 10m/s, could move up to 1500 cubic metres per hour of freight or bulk materials between any two points. The vehicle would have a loose seal at its front and back, to minimise gas leakage past it.

The required differential pressure needed to drive the vehicle would be a function of its mass (weight), the friction coefficient of the wheels and the cross-sectional area of the vehicle.

The minimum force needed to move a vehicle is given by: F = W x C, where W is weight in N, and C is coefficient of rolling resistance, typically 0.002 for steel wheels on steel rails. A 1 tonne mass would weigh 3679N on Mars. To move this mass in a rail vehicle will take a minimum force of 7.4N on Mars. For a vehicle 20cm wide, this amounts to a required differential pressure of 184Pa per tonne. This of course assumes a perfectly flat surface.

Hydraulic capsule pipelines are a related concept in which neutrally buoyant capsules of material are carried through a water pipe. Typically, this carries capsules very slowly, about human walking speed. The concept is one of the most energy efficient transportation methods known to man, but it has the limitations of low speed and the need to load and unload the capsules with whatever is being transported and handle them at both ends. An added problem exists on Mars - low temperature. Operating hydraulic pipelines on Mars would require either heating the pipes or using brine as a carrying fluid. The first solution is an option if we have access to nuclear waste heat. The low thermal conductivity of Martian regolith would make it an excellent insulator. Using cold brine is problematic, because water at subzero temperatures becomes progressively more viscous, which pushes up pumping power.

One significant advantage of low speed pipelines on Mars is the extremely low vapour pressure of water at temperatures close to zero. The pipelines would barely need to be pressurised. They could be constructed from cast basalt, concrete, steel or polymer. We would lay them between our colony and numerous mine sites, allowing colonists to access materials from hundreds or even thousands of kilometres away. The water would carry the capsules along at speeds of no more than a few metres per second.

A pipe some 10cm in diameter, carrying capsules at a speed of 1m/s, could transport up to 250,000 tonnes of material per year. If the pipe is made from steel with a wall thickness of 1mm, it would weigh 2.5 tonnes per km. A 1000 km long pipe would therefore weigh 2500 tonnes. The pipe could therefore carry 100x its own weight in freight every year. Useful, if we wanted access to resources from a large area to support the needs of a growing city. We could for example, build a city under a polar ice filled crater. We could grow food in an agricultural colony closer to the equator. A pipeline would deliver water from the polar city to the agricultural colony during the spring and summer months. During the autumn and winter, the same pipeline would be used to transport food north in capsules.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-09-22 16:12:32)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-22 17:43:08

For Calliban re #215

I am hoping what I'm about to toss into the mix here will be of interest with respect to the pneumatic pipeline idea your're continuing to describe.

Some years ago, I had an opportunity to interact with a gent who had patented a transport system based upon permanent magnets. I'd have to spend some time trying to recall the gent's name if there is ever an inquiry ... it might have been "Barber".

In any case, the gent had demonstrated that suitable arrangements of permanent magnets could support some amount of mass moving on a surface.

It is well known that dynamic magnetic force generation systems can support mass .... The many magnetic railroads that are in service around the world are just some examples. The difference in the case of the patent was that no new energy was needed to provide an (essentially) friction free ride.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-22 18:16:34

For SpaceNut .... added ...

0121 Tool and Die Maker - Machine Shop 1 of 3
0122 Tool and Die Maker - Machine Shop 2 of 3
0123 Tool and Die Maker - Machine Shop 3 of 3

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-22 19:46:08

To do tools in even a crude form needs or mining, chemical analysis for process selection, facility to process ore correctly in, a foundry plant to pour the smelted materials into and lots of finishing machines to make the final product that we desire even for just a simple hammer....other tools that will be needed to make use of those tap and dies being made would be drills.
Of course with this would be metal lathes, CNC machines, Bridge ports milling machines and many more such items to make it a shop that could do work in.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-23 06:01:17

For SpaceNut re #218

Thanks for the suggestions for additions to My Hacienda ... I'll take a look to see if any of the activities you've listed are already present in the PlotMaster.

Edit #1: Updates completed: Foundry, Mining, Laboratory

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-23 17:32:25

Emergency oxygen candle manufacturing

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-23 20:42:58

For SpaceNut re #220

0136 Emergency Life Support Equipment Vendor 1 of 3
0137 Emergency life Support Equipment vendor 2 of 3
0138 Emergency life Support Equipment vendor 3 of 3
0139 Emergency life Support Equipment Manufacturer 1 of 3 (eg, chemical oxygen cannisters)
0140 Emergency life Support Equipment Manufacturer 2 of 3 (eg, Shelter and supplies)
0141 Emergency life Support Equipment Manufacturer 3 of 3 (eg, Containers of oxygen, other gases)

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-24 08:27:29

For SpaceNut re My Hacienda specializations ...

0142 Paint Distributor 1 of 3 - includes all surface coverings applied in liquid, paste, spray or similar form
0143 Paint Distributor 2 of 3 - includes all surface coverings applied in liquid, paste, spray or similar form
0144 Paint Distributor 3 of 3 - includes all surface coverings applied in liquid, paste, spray or similar form
0145 Paint Manufacturer 1 of 3 Indoor or outdoor application formulated for Mars
0146 Paint Manufacturer 2 of 3 Indoor or outdoor application formulated for Mars
0147 Paint Manufacturer 3 of 3 Indoor or outdoor application formulated for Mars
0148 Floor/wall coverings manufacturer 1 of 3
0149 Floor/wall coverings manufacturer 2 of 3
0150 Floor/wall coverings manufacturer 3 of 3

People are needed to assume responsibility for creation of the businesses listed in My Hacienda.

The people who will be setting up shop on Mars are alive today.

The My Hacienda topic will "take off" when individuals assume responsibility for plots, and begin to ask for supplies they want to buy locally or import, instead of making whatever-it-is themselves.

Until now, almost all ideas for inclusion in the PlotMaster are coming from just two NewMars members.

Reminder: the goal of My Hacienda is to define a community of 7800 people (plus family, friends and employees) who will collectively support a First Tier quality of life for the entire population, despite the small size of the population, and location on a remote planet, with reduced energy input from the Sun compared to Earth, and many other challenges that follow from location in the Solar System.

For SpaceNut ... just a suggestion ... if you decide to assign a plot to an individual ...

1) Please be sure the person agrees to the assignment (there are some "assignments" that haven't led to active plots)
2) Please concatenate the number to the prefix, so the string can be found by a search.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-24 19:46:52

I think this does apply to mars as we begin to set up shop on mars until the level of occupied plots with providing business reach the level to make it possible for the many there to pick and chose what to buy and what to make.

For the understanding of those firat few plots we need data to make good choices with. That is timewise use of hours in the day.

For the 24 hr clock we are sleeping from 4 to possibly 8 each day, with cooking and eating meals at hopefully 3 for 3 hrs, which leave the remaining hours for traveling, walking, seeking shelter, working, getting fresh water, a source of power, heating or cooling ect... the list is long for the initial getting started with many taking less time in the following days to come as some tasks are completed to be sustained with less time.

So that means we have a priority of need that must be tiered for one to climb to that next rung.
Sure the level of what we start with changes that list but we are in for a fight each day until we are not putting time into an activity.

This is the same for mars as we are starting unless we preload with materials, food, water and energy we are going to think of mars in the same manner in order to stay as the supplies will only last just so long.

Plot identifiers in topics are just the marker for anchor posts for discusion rather than here.

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-25 04:35:19

For SpaceNut re #223

Thanks for explaining your idea for using plot identifiers as tags within topics. That is interesting. It is a way to tie another topic (or several) back to My Hacienda!

However, we are not yet achieving what I am hoping for with My Hacienda. We do not yet have anyone (that I know of) actively building a virtual model of an enterprise in that topic. We ** have ** had several expressions of interest in specific focus. For example, I reread the PlotMaster before adding new specialties, and noticed (again) that we have a member who expressed an interest in raising sheep. I think that is an excellent ambition, and one worthy of support, but so far that member has not set up a plot record in the topic. A plot record is where the member would add details about specific items that need to be present for the enterprise to succeed. Those would match (pretty closely) everything that is on an Earth-based sheep farm today, except for the open fields, which are NOT going to be available. The design of a successful sheep farm on Mars is going to need to include plenty of space for the animals to roam, and a robotic collie to give them a guide for movement from "pasture" to "pasture". The design of "pasture"s will require collaboration with those who are concentrating on figuring out how to grow crops. There will be needs relating to the production of wool, from shearing through delivery of bags to other plots which are set up to create fabric and other products from the raw material.

This is the first time I've thought in any depth about the sheep farm initiative. I don't know much about sheep farming, and what little I do know is gleaned from television broadcasts. One think I ** do ** know is that a sheep farmer needs a market. There are two markets I know about (food and wool) but there may well be others. Whatever those markets are need to be set up in the PlotMaster, so we can (hopefully) attract future Mars residents who want to specialize in whatever those activities require.

Edit#1: Another "market" would be for waste (liquid and solid) if there is production beyond what is needed to maintain the "pastures".

Little by little the scope of My Hacienda can build up over time.

The idea I am working toward is a simultaneous delivery of the entire community in a rapid series of carefully choreographed waves of shipments.

This would be a Normandy Invasion scale operation, and not a little toe hold, which will have been completed (and successful) by the time this operation begins in earnest.

The people who will be setting up shop on Mars are alive today on Earth. They ** could ** be participants in the NewMars forum.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2020-09-25 16:32:18

Once I can use a computer to check the topics for the plot numbers to matching topics I will. Also need to collect posts for a Sheep topic

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#201 2020-08-29 08:03:06

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#202 2020-08-29 08:10:05

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#203 2020-08-29 16:41:41

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#204 2020-08-29 18:06:43

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#205 2020-08-29 18:17:19

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#206 2020-08-29 19:50:23

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#207 2020-09-16 18:14:18

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#208 2020-09-16 18:15:21

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#209 2020-09-21 11:17:03

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#210 2020-09-21 16:39:31

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#211 2020-09-21 17:29:13

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#212 2020-09-21 18:28:34

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#213 2020-09-21 18:52:52

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#214 2020-09-22 10:49:13

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#215 2020-09-22 14:54:04

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#216 2020-09-22 17:43:08

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#217 2020-09-22 18:16:34

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#218 2020-09-22 19:46:08

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#219 2020-09-23 06:01:17

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#220 2020-09-23 17:32:25

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#221 2020-09-23 20:42:58

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#222 2020-09-24 08:27:29

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#223 2020-09-24 19:46:52

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#224 2020-09-25 04:35:19

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

#225 2020-09-25 16:32:18

Re: My Hacienda On Mars

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