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#1 2017-02-11 10:16:11

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,871

Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

Here's a link to the Spaceflightinsider's article regarding the proposed Europa Lander, and it contains a short video worth watching.

http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organ … ystallize/

Last edited by Oldfart1939 (2017-02-11 10:17:08)

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#2 2017-02-11 16:52:55

GW Johnson
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From: McGregor, Texas USA
Registered: 2011-12-04
Posts: 4,027
Website

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

Basic spacecraft and lander system ought to work for any of the Jovian moons.  Only the experiments need be different.  Maybe add rovers,  too. 

How about 4 orbiters/landers launched with one SLS,  one pair for each of the four Galilean satellites?

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2017-02-11 16:53:36)


GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

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#3 2017-02-11 17:32:48

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,871

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

That's also what I was thinking when I made the original post.


Not so sure about Io, since it's deep in the Jovian Van Allen belt; not much possibility of a human visit--ever. Same with Europa; Ganymede has some VAB radiation, but a human presence there could work with adequate shielding in a below ground structure sheltered with regolith. Callisto has human presence possibilities--as well as a tenuous atmosphere and suspected below surface H2O. Piggyback several orbiters and landers--nuclear powered?

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#4 2017-02-11 23:25:04

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,155

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

I know that we do have topics related to Europa as indicated in these following titles....
Most are very short but there are a few with some real discusion to explore.
In no particular order.... Sure wish some of the names in them would comeback to contribute once more....

Low cost Europa lander missions.

Europa Orbiter - Possible In What Form?

Europa Ice Clippers

Europa Exploration

Jupiter in a year for Europa orbiter?

Unmanned probes Europa

Using Europa To Terraform Mars - wacky science or real possibility?

Terraforming Europa...is this possible?

Jupiter's Moon: Europa - One to watch:

Science, Technology, and Astronomy Europa

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#5 2017-02-12 00:27:32

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,155

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

NASA Report Sheds Light On Europa Lander Mission

In 2015, NASA revealed its plans to send a spacecraft to conduct several close flybys of Europa sometime in the 2020s. Now, the space agency has detailed — in a Science Definition Team (SDT) report — a mission to send a lander to the icy moon.

The 264-page report, which can be accessed here, lists out three key science goals for a future lander mission — searching for life on the moon, assessing its habitability by analyzing material from the surface, and characterizing Europa’s surface and subsurface to support future robotic missions.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/docs/Europa … t_2016.pdf


Popular Mechanics February 10, 2017 A Mission to Land on Europa Takes Shape

baf815c871285d4e3e7dff10577d4852

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#6 2017-02-12 06:05:31

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,854

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

And this is why Space X not NASA will get to Mars. NASA has way too many expensive objectives and duties it's working on.


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#7 2017-02-12 08:54:36

Oldfart1939
Member
Registered: 2016-11-26
Posts: 1,871

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

Only 20 days on the surface to analyze 5 samples doesn't seem to be a very good return. Limitations in capabilities are there due to the unwillingness to utilize nuclear power for systems and data transmission make this a very poor scientific investment, all costs considered.

As Louis has observed, this is another example of the lack of direction at NASA, and why Elon Musk will be waiting on Mars to pop a Champagne bottle for NASA when they finally arrive 5 years later...

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#8 2017-02-12 18:55:25

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,155

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

Sorry not my data only did the digging....
Sure would be nice to down size the project count but thats the nature of cutting edge science as its not very good on returns....

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#9 2017-02-12 19:23:58

louis
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2008-03-24
Posts: 5,854

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

5 years later?  I doubt it! And I am sure that Musk has plans, somewhere in his fertile brain,  for extensive exploration of the asteroid belt and the big gas planets beyond once we have the Mars base secured. 


Oldfart1939 wrote:

Only 20 days on the surface to analyze 5 samples doesn't seem to be a very good return. Limitations in capabilities are there due to the unwillingness to utilize nuclear power for systems and data transmission make this a very poor scientific investment, all costs considered.

As Louis has observed, this is another example of the lack of direction at NASA, and why Elon Musk will be waiting on Mars to pop a Champagne bottle for NASA when they finally arrive 5 years later...


Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

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#10 2017-02-12 20:31:24

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,155

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/meetings/a … ndings.pdf

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/meetings/a … Update.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace-P

The orbiter would perform 13 flybys of Ganymede, and 4 flybys of Callisto and carry up to 50 kg (110 lb) of scientific instruments, while the Europa lander would have carried up to 70 kg (150 lb) of scientific instruments

http://spacenews.com/europa-mission-pla … s-in-2017/

administration’s request for the mission in its 2017 budget proposal, $49.6 million, is far less than the $175 million it received from Congress in 2016. There is uncertainty in Congress as well: a House appropriations bill for fiscal year 2017 offers $260 million for the Europa mission, yet a Senate bill, while “supportive” of the mission, does not explicitly allocate any funds for it.

Europa Mission Concept Study Update

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#11 2017-02-13 04:43:45

elderflower
Member
Registered: 2016-06-19
Posts: 1,260

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

At the rate that other agencies are moving on the Mars projects, Musk will have planted his vines, harvested grapes and bottled and matured his own Mars champagne before anyone else gets there.

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#12 2017-02-13 11:09:05

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,155

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

Its easy to grow when being fed a supply of satelites to launch commercial or military in type and then doing cargo to the ISS but what happens when these are gone.....you are seeing the starvation diet that persues.....If it were not for the size of Boeing and Lockheed doing other non space business they would have folded a long time ago...

When launch counts drop the price either goes up or the number of people constantly needing to be hired and trained keeps going up as no one wants to eventually have the desire to return after a few lay offs.

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#13 2019-11-23 21:13:30

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 19,155

Re: Goals for NASA's proposed Europa Lander Begin to Crystallize

Rather than start a new topic on Jupiter's moon Europa and Saturn's moon Enceladus, water exploration the following rover will fit as its to explore just that.
buoyant-rover-under-ice-exploration-bruie-hg.jpg

Aquatic rover goes for a drive under the ice upside down Nasa's BRUIE, or the Buoyant Rover for Under-Ice Exploration, is being developed for underwater exploration in extraterrestrial, icy waters plus needs to be a tough aquatic explorer capable of navigating solo through an alien ocean locked under ice sheets that could be 6 to 12 miles (10 to 19 kilometers) thick.

Quite the machine to be able to navigate, test for life sings and to be able to control bouyancy...

The Antarctic waters are the closest Earth analog to the seas of an icy moon, which makes them an ideal testing ground for BRUIE technology. Three feet (1 meter) long and equipped with two wheels to roll along beneath the ice, the buoyant rover can take images and collect data on the important region where water and ice meet, what scientists call the "ice-water interface."

"We've found that life often lives at interfaces, both the sea bottom and the ice-water interface at the top. Most submersibles have a challenging time investigating this area, as ocean currents might cause them to crash, or they would waste too much power maintaining position," said lead engineer Andy Klesh. "BRUIE, however, uses buoyancy to remain anchored against the ice and is impervious to most currents. In addition, it can safely power down, turning on only when it needs to take a measurement, so that it can spend months observing the under-ice environment."

During several Antarctic field tests, the rover will remain tethered to the surface as Hand, Klesh, mechanical engineer Dan Berisford and University of Western Australia engineer Dan Arthur test its suite of instruments, including its two live, high-definition cameras.

"BRUIE will carry several science instruments to measure parameters related to life, such as dissolved oxygen, water salinity, pressure and temperature," said Berisford, who will attach the science instruments if early tests go well. But life on other worlds like Enceladus and Europa may be difficult to measure. "Once we get there," he added, "we only really know how to detect life similar to that on Earth. So it's possible that very different microbes might be difficult to recognize."

While the team has previously tested BRUIE in Alaska and the Arctic, this is the rover's first trial in Antarctica. Supported by the Australian Antarctic Program, the crew will travel to lakes and the seashore near Casey station, where they will drill holes in the ice in order to submerge BRUIE. The rover could even make some friends - curious penguins and seals sometimes investigate when the science teams drill through the ice.

The team will continue to work on BRUIE until it can survive under the ice for months at a time, remotely navigate without a tether and explore the ocean at greater depths. NASA is already at work constructing the Europa Clipper orbiter, which is scheduled to launch in 2025 to study Jupiter's moon Europa, laying the groundwork for a future mission that could search for life beneath the ice.

https://www.nasa.gov/europa

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