Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

SpaceNut · 2005-04-30 19:27:50

We have actually brushed onto the MTO before with a topic of laser comunication and some references to it in as a next generation.

Lockheed milks Mars Space company expects to build another orbiter

Lockheed Martin Space Systems is expected to land a NASA contract to design and build the $500 million Mars Telecommunications Orbiter, which the space agency said will pioneer the use of lasers for planet-to-planet communication.
Known as MTO, the spacecraft is scheduled for launch in 2009 on a 10-year mission.

Lots of details.

Just wondering if it will make all 10 years of use before cancellation because nasa will need the money for the CEV to moon missions by that time?

MarsDog · 2005-04-30 20:36:51

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5387135/]GPS and http://www.google.com/search?q=Mars+Tel … N]Internet for Mars.

Paving the way for efficient exploration.
I see it as a commitment to do considerably more on Mars.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-07-22 07:03:00

:cry: Sad to bring you guys this news
but they've been cost cutting with the Voyagers and now they have knocked down another mission

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state … 68,00.html

Negotiations between the aerospace company and NASA had been expected to lead to the award of a design-and-build contract for the Mars Telecommunications Orbiter.
But the mission was canceled
"It's obviously a painful decision," Dantzler said Thursday. "We canceled MTO because we simply don't have the money in the future budget to support it."
Dantzler said the decision is final.

what's the problem with them ? :x

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-07-22 07:08:43

its over now

Rxke · 2005-07-22 07:19:22

It all seems so ass-backwards...

Like they don't plan with long-term goals etc...
Or they keep Mars on th backburner, first Luna, then Mars, we'll get there when we're ready... ?

Cobra Commander · 2005-07-22 09:06:10

It all seems so ass-backwards...
Like they don't plan with long-term goals etc...

Sound long term planning? From an agency of the United States government?

Now that's just crazy talk.

SpaceNut · 2005-07-22 19:59:39

Sounds like a little $500 million is more important than setting up the communications path for the next generation rovers which was a single unit in 2011 but which might not even turn into that at this rate.

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2005-07-24 02:29:15

First there was trouble with Hubble, Constellation, and JIMO and there seems to be a trimmed its request for future work on Project Constellation, which is intended to develop a Crew Exploration Vehicle - a CEV to the Moon and there was no funding for the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter (JIMO) mission for the budget effectively killing the program ?

Then we saw that they will try and Kill one of the most fantastic missions, the Voyager 1&2 program may be canceled. With Voyager we have possibly the only exploration of the outer heliosphere in our lifetimes then NASA officials told seven mission managers (Voyager, Ulysses, Polar, Wind, Geotail, FAST (Fast Auroral SnapshoT) and TRACE (Transition Region and Coronal Explorer) that there is now no money to keep their projects operating

Now the Red Planet is getting chopped down the Mars Telecommunications Orbiter could be axed and there have been reports on the newmars forum that it is cancelled. Placed at a much higher orbit than a satellite designed primarily for science and remote sensing is good, a dedicated relay satellite would be eclipsed for only a very small percentage of its orbit by Mars itself. This craft would be able to 'see' both the Sun and the Earth for effectively twice as long as a satellite in a low Mars orbit and it would double the time it can send data home to Earth and doubles the time its solar panels can soak up solar energy, giving it twice as much power to play with SMART-1 did carry out some trials in laser communications, demonstrating that a laser could track a spacecraft at lunar distances and communicate with it uses its Tereriffe laser facility to communicate with satellites in GEO and Europe is in a leading position in the domain of optical communications..
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object … longid=862
Griffin begins to cut core missions of the Mars Program and reportedly wants to delay the Mars Science Laboratory (big nuclear powered rover) by two to four years. With No MSL and no MTO in 2009 that leaves the window completely empty for a NASA spacecraft. At a much higher would also mean that any surface science packages or future-Rover on Mars would be able to see the orbiter for about half of its orbit, allowing potential data relay for about 50% of each day as opposed to 8 minutes for an orbiter in a MO type orbit or for even shorter in the planned lower MRO orbit. NASA cancels Mars telecom orbiter mission the Mars Telecommunication Orbiter is cancelled all the money spent to date on the MTO is 100% wasted now . So NASA has cancelled plans to build a communications satellite that would orbit Mars and serve as a relay for future missions, a Denver newspaper reported that NASA scrubs Red Planet craft to save green.

SpaceNut · 2005-08-26 05:24:46

While this is not the MTO of Nasa it is however about using laser beams to do high speed comunications.
There have been several release over the past few days with regards to a Dnepr Launch Vehicle sending "KIRARI" Optical Inter-orbit Communications Engineering Test Satellite (OICETS) into orbit. It appears that all is well and that they are in the testing setup phase.
Holding Mechanism Release of Laser Utilizing Communications Equipment (LUCE) on the Optical Inter-orbit Communications Engineering Test Satellite, Kirari, (OICETS) And Kirari and Reimei (INDEX) Entering Initial Functional Verification Phase

Now if Nasa is smart they will pay for the data on this and then make the appropiated decision to refund the MTO in the future based on this testing of technology.

Martian Republic · 2005-08-27 13:14:49

Well, what can I tell you people?

You should be careful what you ask for when you said NASA needs to be reformed and the NASA budget needs to be reworked and re-prioritized as to what NASA spend there money on.

You might actually get what you were wishing for, but after you get it, it might not be what you wanted.

Such is life.

Larry,

John Creighton · 2005-08-27 13:26:53

Well, what can I tell you people?
You should be careful what you ask for when you said NASA needs to be reformed and the NASA budget needs to be reworked and re-prioritized as to what NASA spend there money on.
You might actually get what you were wishing for, but after you get it, it might not be what you wanted.
Such is life.
Larry,

If they don't need the bandwidth and NASA budget is stretched very thin it seems like a good fiscal choice to delay the MTO.

SpaceNut · 2005-11-09 15:04:22

Back a while ago when the first round of project axe for missions that did not fit the immediate need for the vision there were a number cut including the MTO.

under the house committee document mentioned in the human folder.

24. With the cancellation of the Mars Telecommunications Orbiter, the conferees are concerned about how the requirements that led to the need for this mission will be met, especially optical communications. NASA is directed to provide a report no later than March 1, 2006, on these requirements, how it intends to meet these requirements and what the impact on the overall Mars exploration programmatic risk will be.

So in order for nasa to get its 2006 budget dollars they are going to need to explain why it was cancelled since they are the one that said that they would need it in the future.

SpaceNut · 2005-12-12 07:56:21

Article not about MTO but is about laser communications.

Laser beams message between satellites

Two satellites have become the first to exchange information from different orbits using a laser . The feat may lead to super-fast data-relay systems between spacecraft.
One, a Japanese mission called Kirari (Optical Inter-orbit Communications Engineering Test Satellite), flies at an altitude of 610 kilometres, in low-Earth orbit. The other, a European satellite called ARTEMIS (Advanced Relay and Technology Mission), soars 36,000 kilometres above Earth in geostationary orbit.

Not quite the same as would be used for a mars to Earth repeater but without more testing of design we will never know if could make the distance and aiming acuracy that will be needed.

SpaceNut · 2006-01-06 11:15:33

This is probably one reason for why the MTO has been cancelled at this point and hopefully it will be revived in time for manned missions to mars.

Longest laser link bridges the gulf of space

A laser communication link has been made across a record 24 million kilometres (15 million miles), between the Messenger spacecraft and instruments on Earth.
The craft and the ground station transmitted pulses back and forth to each other, and although no actual information was transmitted, the experiment shows the potential for interplanetary laser links.

SpaceNut · 2017-07-16 15:35:45

Fixed a few artifacts in the topic but found that its been canceled in this other topic http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3679

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-12-01 18:07:48

NASA and industry embrace laser communications

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA … s_999.html

NASA's Laser Communications Relay Demonstration (LCRD) will send data to and from ground stations and, eventually, in-space user missions over laser links.

tahanson43206 · 2021-12-01 18:21:40

For Mars_B4_ Moon.... re #16

Thanks for this update on development of laser communications in the Solar system.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-12-02 08:03:56

The Chinese are also doing it now

China’s BeiDou in race with Nasa over laser communications in space
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science … ions-space

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-12-12 19:09:19

NASA’s Laser Communications Relay Demonstration – Bringing Optical Speeds to the Final Frontier

https://scitechdaily.com/nasas-laser-co … -frontier/

LCRD’s mission will be spent proving out the technology by testing laser communications capabilities with experiments from NASA, other government agencies, academia, and – in particular – the commercial aerospace community. Industry-developed experiments will allow companies to test their own technologies, software, and capabilities. NASA is providing these opportunities to grow the body of knowledge surrounding laser communications and promote its operational use.
While LCRD’s experimenter program will allow NASA and industry to test and refine techniques, both the agency and the commercial sector have been demonstrating and using laser communications for the past few decades.
...
While industry is focused on in-space optical communications to support terrestrial users, NASA is demonstrating direct-to-Earth capability from geosynchronous orbit to increase communications capabilities for future missions. With laser communications onboard, missions will be able to communicate more data in a single transmission than they could with traditional radio frequency communications.
“The Earth’s atmosphere distorts laser beams due to turbulence. Understanding these challenges are critical to enabling operational optical communications relay capability,” said Jason Mitchell, Director of the Advanced Communications and Navigation Technology division in the Space Communications and Navigation (SCaN) program at NASA Headquarters.

Inside GNSS news

BeiDou Conducts Laser Communication Experiment, Steps Ahead of U.S. — Could Improve SatNav Accuracy
https://insidegnss.com/beidou-conducts- … -accuracy/

China’s BeiDou GNSS has conducted an inter-satellite and satellite-ground station experiment using using lasers rather than the usual radio signals. The technology could potentially transmit data a million times faster than by radio signal to almost any location.

...

Optical signals cannot penetrate cloud coverage, so NASA must build a system flexible enough to avoid interruptions due to weather. LCRD will transmit data received from missions to two ground stations, located in Table Mountain, California, and Haleakalā, Hawaii. These locations were chosen for their minimal cloud coverage. LCRD will test different cloud coverage scenarios, gathering valuable information about the flexibility of optical communications.
Future missions that decide to use optical communications could potentially use LCRD as their relay. One of LCRD’s first operational users will be the Integrated LCRD Low-Earth Orbit User Modem and Amplifier Terminal (ILLUMA-T), a payload that will soon reach the International Space Station. The terminal will receive high-resolution science data from experiments and instruments onboard the ISS and transfer the data to LCRD, which will then transmit it to a ground station, relaying on to mission operation centers and scientists.
In January 2020, the LCRD flight payload was delivered to Northrop Grumman’s facility in Sterling, Virginia, for integration onto STPSat-6. Throughout the development process, the NASA LCRD team worked closely with the Space Force as well as commercial partners like Northrop Grumman and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Lincoln Laboratory.

With LCRD relaying data for ILLUMA-T, this will be the first operational optical communications system for human spaceflight. ILLUMA-T will send data to LCRD at rates of 1.2 gigabits per second over optical links, allowing for more high-resolution experiment data to be transmitted back to Earth.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-12-12 19:16:10)

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#1 2005-04-30 19:27:50

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#2 2005-04-30 20:36:51

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#3 2005-07-22 07:03:00

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#4 2005-07-22 07:08:43

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#5 2005-07-22 07:19:22

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#6 2005-07-22 09:06:10

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#7 2005-07-22 19:59:39

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#8 2005-07-24 02:29:15

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#9 2005-08-26 05:24:46

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#10 2005-08-27 13:14:49

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#11 2005-08-27 13:26:53

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#12 2005-11-09 15:04:22

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#13 2005-12-12 07:56:21

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#14 2006-01-06 11:15:33

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#15 2017-07-16 15:35:45

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#16 2021-12-01 18:07:48

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#17 2021-12-01 18:21:40

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#18 2021-12-02 08:03:56

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

#19 2021-12-12 19:09:19

Re: Mars Telecommunications Orbiter (MTO) - laser communication

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