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#176 Re: Not So Free Chat » Can Donald Trump build an Antarctic Hotel? » 2017-03-18 19:46:16
Well the rules state no cruise ships because of the chance they'll get stuck in ice and spill oil and fuel into the ocean when they get crushed. Since cruise ships are out, people will need a place to stay, How about a Trump Hotel at McMurdo? McMurdo has everything a tourist might want to see including an active volcano and dry valleys!
#177 Re: Human missions » The Moon versus Mars; Science versus Economics? » 2017-03-18 19:40:19
How about just heating up lunar materials to plasma temperatures breaking all chemical bonds and separating out the elements? I think heating the material to 6000 K ought to do the trick, that is the temperature of the surface of the Sun after all. Very large parabolic mirrors could do this I think. You'd need cooling equipment as well surrounding the area where you vaporize lunar material, the gases would condense back into solids upon contact.
#178 Not So Free Chat » Can Donald Trump build an Antarctic Hotel? » 2017-03-18 15:01:32
- Tom Kalbfus
- Replies: 7
What do you think? Is there a market for this?
#179 Re: Science, Technology, and Astronomy » Can launching rocket to space on Canadian soil be possible? Yes » 2017-03-18 14:39:19
You could launch a rocket from Antarctica, there are some merits to it, the fact that no one lives there, means that if a rocket crashes, no one is likely harmed.
#180 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-18 14:37:23
Governments weren't designed to build rockets and corporations weren't meant to govern planets, each has a role to play. Government is lousy at picking winners and losers, the shuttle was a loser because the government that ordered it didn't care about profits, the contractors that built and serviced the shuttle with cost plus contracts were profitable enough, cost over runs were very profitable, because they just passed those on to the government, the shuttle was flying for 30 years earning those contractors profits with each launch, they didn't own the shuttle, the costs of the shuttle didn't belong to them, only their government guaranteed profits. I wouldn't knock NASA though, the Soviets got their first man in space, but they never had a successful probe to Mars, they did succeed in landing one on Venus, there were no Russian or Soviet probes to the Outer Planets, only NASA did that! There was a European probe to Titan, but it hitched a ride with NASA. NASA has done stuff that no nation has ever done in space, it is pretty much the only Space Superpower right not, China is catching up, but it is not there yet! NASA developed a lot of space technologies with its cost plus contracts, those technologies are still out there, a treasure trove waiting to be exploited for profit, NASA doesn't know how to do this! We have 60 years of technological development by NASA, that is not nothing! As for Mars, the United States might want to expand its borders again some day, why wouldn't it, and all those nations that don't want to put up the money to develop space, they will miss out on a lot of things. I think a Federal Republic is a logical government type for Mars, if Europe wants a share, they will have to put up the money to start a colony. The government will be decided by whoever gets sent to Mars, if NASA spends to most money, then the people over their will be Americans, and will probably not go with a European style Parliament government. Ethiopia and Iran won't get a say.
#181 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-18 12:28:32
Tom Kalbfus wrote:why should it be this corporation and not some other corporation?
A better question is: Will the corporation’s directors be democratically elected by Martian settlers or will the directors be appointed by oligarchs?
Will the corporation be a cooperative corporation (one member, one vote) or a plutocratic corporation (the directors elect themselves to power year after year and become fabulously wealthy by exploiting Martian settlers)?
The general rule for a corporation is one vote per preferred share, if it is democratically elected, it is not a corporation. I do not thin corporations are meant to be governments. A corporation should not be expected to live under the rules it creates. Having a corporate government is a conflict of interest. Corporations are legal entities. A corporation that is a monopoly is a distortion, it is a science fiction trope where the corporation is typically portrayed as the bad guy. Have you seen the Alien series.
Besides this alien, who was the bad guy in the movie? It was the corporation that wanted to bring the alien back alive for weapons development.
#182 Re: Human missions » The Moon versus Mars; Science versus Economics? » 2017-03-18 09:43:36
How large are the polar regions on the Moon? The Moon is one quarter the size of Earth, it is a rather big rock! Much bigger than the two asteroids that are orbiting Mars, and closer to the Sun as well! The Lunar Poles aren't as forbidding as Earth poles are, the Solar rays are just as intense there as at the Lunar equator when the Sun is up. The Moon has very little axial tilt as well, that means you don't get 6 months of polar night as you do on Earth. The Sun's energy is just as freely available at the Moon's poles as they are to any spaceship in orbit. With the Moon you have building materials on site, in free space you don't! Instead of going through the trouble of building mass drivers to you can fling lunar materials into space for construction of SPS satellites in geosynchronous orbit, what if we just built lunar power stations on the Moon? those same solar panels on Earth would have to be vacuum sealed to get the same power efficiency. A laser could project power to Earth from the Moon, reflectors in Geosynchronous orbit can be optimized to reflect the specific wavelength of light projected by the laser, just as in a laser pushed light sail, the beam can be reflected around the Earth from wherever the Moon is, to touch down on a power conversion station in some convenient location on Earth. This is good practice for building some actual laser pushed light sails by the way!
#183 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-03-18 09:30:43
Government programs that feed poeple when cut kill people....A defense department cut does not....
A Defense Department cut kills soldiers who are fighting to protect us! I think soldiers should have priority over homeless people, we shouldn't be leaving them to die in the battlefield in order to feed and shelter the homeless! and if we lose a war to our enemies there is this:
The Enemy can do some terrible things to us if we lose!, if we get cheap on defending ourselves!
Sure there needs to be a balance and that is the problem when making cuts that could and will kill people as thats the same as a death camp singling out the old and the poor for termination....
At least you stand a chance if you are not in a concentration camp.
That said cutting the amount for global warming a bit does not kill but terminating all research will as people do not move from what they own. Terminating the EPA regulations on pollutions will kill in the name of cuts...
Regulations are not in place to keep corporate business men from profits its there to protect the people.So choose the cuts wisely
I have not seen any evidence that Global Warming actually kills! We are intelligent creatures, we should be able to adapt to a changing environment over many generations and survive! We don't need those ice caps on the north and south poles, how do we know this? The human population in the Polar Regions is extremely low!
#184 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-18 06:33:11
Tom Kalbfus wrote:There is another angle to the Space Treaty. The Planet Mars is not a signatory, if the United States wanted to be clever, it could set up a colony on Mars, make it an independent country, and then join that country, changing its name to "The United States of Mars" This new country would then have some extraplanetary territory on the planet Earth. Since "The United States of Mars" is not a signatory of the Outer Space Treaty, no laws are broken!
You come up with some of the most bizarre ideas, Tom. If the United States really wanted Mars, it could just withdraw from the Outer Space Treaty. No need to reform itself. Considering the contempt Trump has for actions of past presidents, he would have no trouble doing so. If he doesn't get himself impeached first. If the United States does break up. Can you say "#Calexit"?
Getting serious, a Terran corporation could declare sovereignty over Mars. We already debated a few ideas of how that would be structured. The corporation would have to be registered with a country that didn't sign the Outer Space Treaty. We don't need Andorra or Malta to establish a land title office for Mars, or even try to declare sovereignty over Mars. The corporation could set up an independent government of Mars. The corporation would just have to pay taxes to the flag of convenience: Andorra or Malta. I'm sure they would appreciate tax from a multi-billion dollar corporation.
that would undermine competition if only one Corporation declared sovereignty over Mars, why should it be this corporation and not some other corporation? I one-time owned an S-Corporation, why shouldn't it be my corporation that owns Mars, who is to decide this, and whoever does, isn't that crony capitalism? Capitalism works best where there is competition, and rules under which capitalism competes, if a corporation decides the rules, that is like the referee playing the game, and it is a conflict of interest.
#185 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-03-17 23:35:48
At least Trump has the gumption to propose these cuts, the only things Obama ever wanted to cut was the Defense Department and NASA. Also why are so many liberals worried about Global Warming while at the same time, none of them are worried about the increasing government debt? Both are long term problems supposedly, so why are liberals so eager to make sacrifices to try and solve global warming, but when it comes to the Budget Deficit and debt, they are willing to kick the can down the road? Seems a bit inconsistent, don't you think? You cite all these instances of Trump wanting to cut the budget, but you seem to have no problem with cutting carbon emissions. Cutting carbon emissions means imposing costs on the emitters, but that is fine, however cut government programs and its no no no!
#186 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-17 23:28:38
There is another angle to the Space Treaty. The Planet Mars is not a signatory, if the United States wanted to be clever, it could set up a colony on Mars, make it an independent country, and then join that country, changing its name to "The United States of Mars" This new country would then have some extraplanetary territory on the planet Earth. Since "The United States of Mars" is not a signatory of the Outer Space Treaty, no laws are broken!
#187 Re: Human missions » The Moon versus Mars; Science versus Economics? » 2017-03-17 23:18:25
That limitation is due to solar, so we will need nuclear to fix that problem...
So what are the possibilities of getting something other than RTG's for lunar use?
There is a new type of solar cell called a thermophotovoltaic cell, and the way it works is this. this cell has two layers, the top layer absorbs visible light and gets very hot. the heat energy is transmitted to an emitter which emits photons in a wavelength that the photovoltaic cell underneath is optimized for converting into electricity, this can lead to solar conversion efficiencies greater than 30%.
http://web.stanford.edu/group/gcep/cgi- … d-emitter/
The thing about this solar cell is that it only works in a vacuum such as exists on the Moon, note the temperature difference indicated by the diagram. If there was air, it would convect heat away from the emitter and towards the photovoltaic cell reducing its efficiency be heating it up and reducing the emitters efficiency by cooling it down. Another important property is that it can convert stored heat into electricity as well. One can use the Suns light to heat up the thermophotovoltaic, and when the Sun goes down it will continue to convert the remaining heat to electricity until it cools down.
#188 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-03-17 11:20:59
You are correct in those that comitted the crimes of burning cars and looting stores need to be caught and jailed after prosecution.
The same holds true for the Trump followers that have killed and burned churches as well....
I heard a black man burnt down a black church and got caught trying to make it look like Trump followers dod this. As for he other Churches, I smell George Soros money, he is paying people to protest, riot, and commit acts of violence attributed to Trump. There were a number of Jewish cemeteries vandalized recently, I wouldn't be surprised if George Soros was paying people to do that in order to make Trump look bad. the whole "good ole boy" Klan connection to Trump is something the Democrats are trying to weld onto Trump, they would even give him a southern accent if the could. Problem is Trump is from New York, not Alabama, he has hired a lot of minorities in his businesses, has a daughter that converted to Judaism, and the Democrats are trying to paint him to look like Hitler! I think that is just dishonest! I think the Democrats should stop trying to be "Boss Hogg" and just accept their losses and try to do better by the American people instead of trying to find angles to impeach the current President, the nation does not need this! Just work the system, run a few candidates and learn from your mistakes, that is all I ask. There will be a Democratic President again someday, if the democrats would stop digging a hole for themselves now, stop conniving and being dishonest. Too many tricks and not enough real work for the people, its time they got back to that, I am sure they can find real issues, and not make up stuff. There is not much stuff the Trump Administration could have done in its first month in office. I suggest they let events happen of their own accord instead of their trying to force events an manufacture a scandal for Trump out of whole cloth. We need a more balanced media too, we are not going to believe "Pinocchio News" when it talks about a "Trump Scandal"! The Media has "soiled themselves" with their bias for the Democrats, we need this to stop!
Trump’s $1.1 Trillion Budget Makes Dramatic Cuts to Federal Government
The axe falls heavily on the Environmental Protection Agency, the Agriculture Department and the State Department. Other programs, from medical research to the arts to those benefiting the poor, would also lose a significant chunk — if not all — of their federal funding. The budget reserves $1.5 billion for building a wall on the southern border with Mexico, with $2.6 billion more allocated for the project in the following fiscal year.
Here are the highlights:
—Twelve of the government's 15 Cabinet agencies would be defunded to some extent, with the biggest losers the departments of Agriculture, Labor, State and the Cabinet-level EPA. The EPA's funding would be down 31 percent, or $2.6 billion; Agriculture would be down nearly 21 percent, or $4.7 billion; and the State Department would be down 28 percent, or $10 billion.
—The departments seeing the biggest funding gains would be the Pentagon, up 10 percent with $52 billion allocated for military spending and $2 billion for national defense programs outside the Defense Department; Homeland Security, up 6.8 percent or $2.8 billion, including for the building of the border wall with Mexico; and Veterans Affairs, up 5.9 percent, or $4.4 billion.
—The Health and Human Services Department faces the biggest cut in dollars — 16.2 percent, or $12.6 billion — with funding eliminated for the Fogarty International Center, whose mission is to support global health. But the budget does address the nation's growing opioid addiction epidemic with a proposed $500 million increase to the health department as well as more to the Justice Department.
—Aside from funding for the border wall, Homeland Security would get a $314 million hiring spree for "500 new Border Patrol Agents and 1,000 new Immigration and Customs Enforcement law enforcement personnel in 2018, plus associated support staff." Money would also go toward hiring 75 immigration judges and 20 attorneys who can help procure the land in the Southwest for the border wall, as well as for short-term detention space.
—Federal funding would be eliminated for several programs and services, with proposed savings of $2.7 billion. Those include the National Endowment for the Arts, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the Institute of Museum and Library Services, legal aid for the poor and low-income heating assistance.
http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics … NTS%20.jpg
Republicans dismiss Trump's first budget blueprint
Key takeaways from President Trump's new budget blueprint are Families face reality of possible budget cuts killing programs they use
How would Trump's budget hit UN programs?
The U.S. contributes more to the U.N. budget than any other nation: 22 percent of the regular budget ($5.4 billion) and 28.5 percent of the peacekeeping budget ($8.27 billion).
Trump wants to slash State Department budget by 28 percent, shift money to defense
Under executive order reguation roll back
Other changes to Things to know about Trump's rollback of CAFE fuel-economy standardsThe standard for passenger cars stayed at 27.5 mpg from 1990 until 2007. In 2009, the government set a fuel economy standard of 34.1 mpg for cars and light trucks by 2016. In 2012, it set a new target of 54.5 mpg by 2025. The number can change depending on the mix of vehicles customers buy. Right now, it stands at 51.4 mpg because people are buying more SUVs and trucks.
So by relaxing the goal the us will sell more oil which will raise the price at the gas pump.. And it will not sell anymore cars made in America than it currently does.
GOP health care bill advances despite opposition from conservatives from the budget panel, voting 19-17, passed the American Health Care Act, which now heads to the House Rules Committee.
#189 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-03-17 11:07:47
For the wall Trump Seizing Land From Texans to Build His Wall, Letters Going Out that order them to either accept a lowball offer for their land, or have it seized by eminent domain.
http://www.bluedotdaily.com/wp-content/ … .30-AM.png
The Donald Trump administration has been plagued with scandal after scandal in it’s first couple of months, and now it seems like another is brewing, this time with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson Hit with Fraud Investigation. “What did the company know about fossil fuels and climate change and when?” It is likely that Exxon-Mobile knew the environmental damage they were causing for decades and hid it from the public.
Trump Caught in the Middle of Another $400 Million Conflict of Interest Business Deal that Chinese company, Anbang Insurance Group, is investing into a building owned by Kushner’s real estate company, adding to the mountain of other conflicts of interest this Trump has.
You know, save it for the legal weenie lawyers that are actually interested in this stuff. I'm not a lawyer. All I care about is how what Trump is doing affects me and the Space program, if Trump is accidentally making a few bucks on the side, I could care less, Trump obviously didn't get rich by this, Clinton did! If for instance a Russian diplomat checks into the Presidential Suite of a Trump hotel, I could care less, you want to make an issue of this and call it a bribe? That's ridiculous. The most powerful man in the World right now is Donald Trump, Putin has nothing to offer him, a few hundred million on the side is not going to get Trump to change his policies. Trump is 70 years old, he knows he doesn't have many more years left, the Presidency is his legacy, he is not going to mess it up by willingly accepting bribes or kickbacks, Trump has made his billions already, Clinton has not. Everything Trump does while President is all about his legacy and making history, not about enrichment, if you don't know this already, I don't know what else I can say to you.
#190 Re: Not So Free Chat » Election Meddling » 2017-03-17 10:59:46
Tom I saw the play on words as being a parody to what trump had said during the election campaign that in what he said has come back to haunt him...
Donald Trump boasted, I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters' as he bragged about how loyal his supporters.... Snope Dog is just joking just like he was right....
"Could" does not equal "did", Trump is prone to boasting and exaggeration, you should learn not to take him literally about everything he says. Its quite obvious that Trump was bragging and not serious, just like when he was joking about the Russians having the missing Hillary e-mails, the liberals wanted to misinterpret that abd blow that all up into Trump collaborating with the Russians, guess they can't take a joke! You really think if Trump was collaboration with the Russians, he would joke about it on television? I don't. You have "word lawyers" examining every syllable Trump utters and trying to find ways to use those words against him, this is ridiculous, and we don't need this "legal weenie" stuff! Do you take the "Legal Weenie" lawyers seriously? They need to get a life!
#191 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-17 10:49:39
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Why not go with something that works rather than something that fails?
I saw a debate by some Canadian politicians. One individual claimed every time the United States has attempted to export its system to other countries, it has failed. Canada has successfully exported its system to many countries, they succeeded. Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration.
The United States has a number of firewalls than can be used to resist a dictator taking over, but it requires vigilance on the part of the people and the Representatives they elect. Maybe the people of Latin America are content to be led around like sheep. Another problem is they are poor and susceptible to demagogues that promise to redistribute from the rich to the poor, and also eliminate a number or rivals to their power by eliminating the rich and cementing themselves into power. Poor people when motivated by jealousy of the upper classes often support dictators like Maximillian Robespierre and Napoleon.
IanM wrote:The Latin American countries upon independence from Spain were heavily influenced by the US and copied that system.
But Canada came up with a modification of the British parliamentary system. That system was adopted by all remaining colonies of the British empire, allowing them to become independent countries. So pretty much the entire British Commonwealth copied Canada's system. It works very well.
However, if you read the long posts earlier in this discussion thread, we tried to take the best of both American and Canadian systems, and scrap the bad parts.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:So you want a secretary running a whole planet?
...
You want to model the Mars government after the ineffective UN with its ineffective Secretary-General, wo unlike the secretary in the picture, can't even take dictation or fetch some coffee.Don't be an ass. Or do you not know how America works? The American federal government has "secretaries" where British Commonwealth countries have ministers. Canada has a foreign minister, the American equivalent is "secretary of state". Canada has a finance minister, America has a "secretary of the treasury". "Attorney General" is the only American cabinet position not called "secretary".
#192 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-16 09:43:59
No they would just take it without consulting us. Anyway the time is now, if you wait a century it will be too late! Germany missed out on the Age of Exploration in the New World, because it was too busy fighting with itself during the 30 years war between Catholics and Protestants! Later on when Germany was finally reunited, it started World War I and World War II because it wanted a piece of the colonial action that it felt it missed out on. Most of the colonial powers had it wrong they felt the regions were places to exploit rather than to expand into, Australia it turned out was not to be part of the UK proper but a colony instead, big mistake!
#193 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-16 08:54:55
Tom Kalbfus wrote:The UN does such a terrible job of keeping the peace, I'm not sure we want to replicate that on Mars. I don't want slavery on one part of Mars, and have women as second class citizens on another, and a dictator ruling a swath of Mars on a third part. I think one country or another should have Mars, and have an open immigration system for starters. The path of least resistance would seem to be rewarding Russia with Venus, the United States gets Mars, and Europe gets Titan, everyone else gets the asteroid belt. China seems to be interested in the Moon. One problem is we set up Nations on Mars, there are no oceans, meaning no International Waters!
You are joking, aren't you?
Look, we all know the USA is the current leader in space, and we were all inspired by Apollo and Voyager and Curiosity and a long list of others. But Mars belongs to humanity, if to anyone at all. Mars should be free and independent from the start, to prevent any of this squabbling. If Mars starts off American, how long will it be before they fight a War Of Independence?
This is a great paper on the subject - not that I agree 100% with all his ideas - https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1404/1404.2315.pdf
Depends on whether we treat them as American citizens or as "Subjects of the Crown" as Great Britain did! The UK were fools to treat us as they did, they did not treat us as equals and so they lost us, it is as simple as that. The United States can learn from that. We have Hawaii after all, it is just one of the 50 states, and it is the only state that is not on the American Continent. If we can have one state, why not others? It would settle the matter of property rights and who's jurisdiction Mars falls under, and we would eliminate the possibility of border wars, just as Australia has done by owning the entire continent of Australia. Now do we want an Empire or a Republic? Well if we start off as a Republic, we won't have the problems the British Empire had with us! An what's wrong with dividing up the Solar System among the space powers? Why does Ethiopia or Somalia deserve a piece of the action at our expense? The United States and other space powers made the investments into space travel, Ethiopia did not, they were busy fighting among themselves or starving instead! We the investors should reap the benefit of our investments, I think we'll need lots of immigrants, but they should obey our laws! We are a successful country, I can't imagine giving Mars to Andorra or Luxemburg, tiny specs of nations that they are. I don't think the governments of tiny little countries are the best examples of how to govern an entire planet. If Britain wants to sponsor a state on Mars, then that's fine, but it would fall under the Martian planetary authority to keep the peace, the UK would have a legal contract with the state they sponsored, and would receive a portion of the local revenues of that state as a return on their investment under the laws of the planet.
The USA is the current leader of Space, do you think we would even be having this conversation if the current leader of Space was China for instance? I don't think so, I think the United States should be in charge of the operation since it has the largest space program and makes the largest investments in space travel, that is just logical, anyone else who wants and who is willing to make the investment should be allowed to participate and should be given representation under American law under this arrangement. It is important to have property rights after all, the UN is terrible at respecting property rights or even human rights.
#194 Re: Not So Free Chat » Politics » 2017-03-16 00:26:03
Do you really want to encourage this? A black man pretends to assassinate President Trump, and John Wilkes Booth actually assassinates President Lincoln for freeing blacks from slavery, both Presidents are Republicans! Such irony! Snoop Dogg wants to play the part of "John Wilkes Booth" to Trump's "Lincoln!"
#195 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-16 00:15:29
Talking about moving forward under the constraints of the Outer Space Treaty, perhaps the discussions around seasteading could help here. Namely, the use of flags of convenience, and the safety zones that are established around seagoing vessels (500m out from the vessels, I think). Assuming that the same laws which apply to the high seas are taken to apply to space - and in the absence of any agreement or ruling to the contrary, it's fair to assume this - there would be nothing stopping a government from setting up a "Space Colony Registry", whose job it is to oversee colonies that are registered under their flag. Indeed, they already do something like this for space launches, as required by international law, and America has already taken steps towards such a thing by agreeing to recognise the ownership of extraterrestrial resources that have been extracted (which really, I suppose, could be likened to fish caught in international waters...?).
So there's no need to claim sovereignty over the entire planet. If it wanted to, the United States could unilaterally set up a Colony Registry for Mars, and even suspend most American laws in the colonies such that they would be mainly self governing. Of course, it would probably be better if they entered into agreements with other countries to set up an international oversight organisation that would settle disputes and agree things like safety zones between colonies.
The UN does such a terrible job of keeping the peace, I'm not sure we want to replicate that on Mars. I don't want slavery on one part of Mars, and have women as second class citizens on another, and a dictator ruling a swath of Mars on a third part. I think one country or another should have Mars, and have an open immigration system for starters. The path of least resistance would seem to be rewarding Russia with Venus, the United States gets Mars, and Europe gets Titan, everyone else gets the asteroid belt. China seems to be interested in the Moon. One problem is we set up Nations on Mars, there are no oceans, meaning no International Waters!
#196 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-16 00:06:57
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Terraformer wrote:That flag hurts my eyes.
I guess the reason is because the British showed how the parliamentary system could be abused to oppress them...
No, it's because you have red on blue. Have you studied any heraldry? That's the formal disciple to create flags. It was very common in the middle ages when most European citizens couldn't read. Each and every person of noble birth (read rich spoiled brat) had a unique flag for that person. That was the signature of the king or queen or lord or baron, etc. The rules of heraldry continue to this day. When I was part of a medieval recreation society I studied heraldry. I was expected to concoct a symbol for myself, a symbol to be painted on my shield when engaging in a tournament. Yes, the society used wooden swords and foam rubber axes, and real steel armour. Actually it was rattan, not wood, but that's not the point. English heraldry is subtly different than German heraldry, etc.
Under English heraldry you put a colour against a metal, or a metal on a colour. You could get fancy and use the word "tincture" instead of colour, but again, whatever. The recognized "metals" in English heraldry were silver and gold, but never actually painted as silver or gold. What they used was white and yellow. That means colour against white or yellow, and white or yellow against colour. Never ever EVER put blue against red. Green against red is accepted in German heraldry, but not English. However blue against red? That will never be accepted by anyone. The reason is humans have red, green, and blue "cones" in the retina of our eyes. We have roughly equal number of red and green cones, but only 1/10 the number of blue cones. That is 10 times as many red as blue, and 10 times as many green as blue. That means we don't see blue with very good resolution. Yellow is a combination of red and green, so that uses both sets of cones that have high resolution. Blue against yellow really means yellow (high resolution) against not-yellow. That uses absence of nerve signals from red and green cones in the "blue" area to produce high resolution. But red against blue means just never signals from red against just nerve signals from blue. Again, blue has poor resolution, so that's bad. Red has good resolution, but now you see a blurry line on the blue side but sharp line on the red side. That conflict causes what looks like a moving jiggly line. That hurts your eyes.
White against yellow would the the worst of all. Yellow is red+green, white is all three colours. That provides full nerve signal from both red and green cones on both sides, with the only difference being signal from blue on the white side, no signal from blue on the yellow side. That provides a blurry line that you cannot see with any resolution.
Yes, human eyes have a lot of rods. They are for dim light. Rods detect all light of any colour. In fact rods can see ultraviolet (UV), but the lens in human eyes has a coating that filters out UV. You don't want sunburn on your retina. Rods are a lot larger than cones, contain a lot of the photodye called retinal. This dye literally burns off when exposed to bright light. When you acclimate or get used to dark, your rods fill with lots of retinal. If you're exposed to sudden bright light while your rods are filled with that much retinal, what you see will be bight, overexposed, washed out. And your eyes will feel like they're burning. Because the retinal is literally decomposing, in a sense your eyes are burning. Rods are big clumsy pixels, providing poor resolution, but they can see in varying light levels, and can see in very dim light. However, in daylight or bright office light, rods do not contribute significantly to your vision. Since rods respond equally to all colours of light, they give you monochromatic vision, sometimes called "black and white".
My point is the colours of your flag hurt our eyes.
Interesting that I didn't pick those colors, the Mars Society did I think, but they formed it into s simply tricolor flag like the flag of France or Germany. Interestingly Red, Green, and Blue are the standard colors on the computer monitor in which the computer makes all the other colors our eyes see.
This is the color chart I use to make my pictures using the Paint program, I made the chart myself so I can select precise colors rather than just approximate. All these colors are made with parts red, green, and blue, the first number is how much red is in the color, the second one is how much green, and the third is how much blue. For instance 550 makes yellow, which means 5 times 51 parts red, 5 times 51 parts green and no blue, that makes yellow.
#197 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-15 11:43:16
[Draft] Claim of Territorial Sovereignty and Establishment of the Government of Mars
The Mars Society is an association of persons who advocate the exploration and settlement of the planet Mars. Members of the Mars Society have requested that the Principality of Andorra (1) claim sovereignty over a portion of Mars and (2) adopt a legal system that facilitates the establishment of permanent settlements on Mars. In response to these requests, the Principality of Andorra does hereby claim sovereignty over the portion of Mars that is bounded on its western side by the line of longitude at -135 degrees west longitude, and on its eastern side by the line of longitude at -45 degrees west longitude, and on its northern side by the line of latitude at 45 degrees north latitude, and on its southern side by the line of latitude at -45 degrees south latitude.
Not these Andorians I suppose! 
The Principality of Andorra does hereby establish a subdivision named Government of Mars. The Government of Mars shall have an office known as the Mars Secretariat. The chief administrative officer of the Mars Secretariat shall be known as the Secretary of State of the Government of Mars. The Mars Society may nominate 3 to 5 people who are willing and able to serve as the Secretary. The Secretary shall be appointed by the Principality of Andorra.
The Secretary may issue “Mars Settlement Permits”. Each chapter of the Mars Society is eligible to apply for one Mars Settlement Permit.
After 10 settlements have been established in the portion of Mars claimed by the Principality of Andorra, 10 or more settlements may jointly declare that they are an independent nation. They may claim sovereignty over the portion of Mars described above and over other portions of Mars if the inhabitants, if any, of those other portions agree to be included in the new nation.
#198 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-15 11:40:08
Tom, response by Terraformer said it best...
Terraformer wrote:Tom, repeat after me: "Mars is not the United States of America".
You know damn well Mars is not the United States of America. The fact you concocted a new flag proves you know this. If Mars were the United States of America, it would use "Old Glory". The reason people want to go to Mars is explicitly to get away from the excessive unreasonable overbearing regulation that exists on Earth today. And to get away from taxes. If you claim Mars is part of the US, then it's subject to all the excessive unreasonable overbearing regulation that exists within the US. And its taxes. I'm not saying that regulation is any worse than other major Western countries, I'm saying the reason people want to go to Mars is to get away from all that.
Mars is a chance to start over. Regardless whether Mars does start over or not, Mars will never have your stupid flag. I don't know where you get "18 original states", there are no states. Are you stuck in some fantasy? The first time you posted this stupid flag you said...
Tom Kalbfus wrote:20 red stars, one for each state, I've added 2 more to the original 18, one for Phobos and Deimos.
The United States of America is a signatory to the UN Outer Space Treaty. That means the United States cannot claim territory on Mars or any other celestial body. Scott Beach suggested establishing a land title registry with a country that did not sign that treaty. He posted...
That doesn't mean that it can't be used as a model to form the basis of an independent government. Why not go with something that works rather than something that fails? The United States survived the worst that Europe had to throw at it, Kings, Empires and Communism! Europe went wrong in so many ways, there are many European countries, some of them failed and became empires, others tried to conquer the world and failed, one unleashed Communism on another. Seems to me the parliamentary system is unstable and tends towards excessive government centralism without a division of power and checks and balances. Seems like the Germans have learned not a thing through he rise of Hitler, their system did not stop him, we did!
Scott Beach wrote:I previously suggested that we side-step the Outer Space Treaty by asking the Republic of Malta to establish a Mars Secretariat that could then issue “Mars Settlement Permits”. Since Malta is in the Mediterranean Sea it’s a difficult place to get to and from. An alternative is Andorra, a small country between France and Spain. The French “branch” of the Mars Society could contact and negotiate with Andorra.
Do either of those countries have space programs, can either of them send people to Mars on their own vehicles? I don't see why you want to reward these countries with a whole planet they are incapable of traveling to? How about having the most successful countries set up a Mars government rather than "also rans" that were pushed aside by history? Do you really want Switzerland as the model? A meek and modest European country incapable of defending itself, depending on other countries respecting its neutrality as their national defense. Well Mars is a lot bigger that Switzerland!
The Mars Society might offer to pay the Principality of Andorra to issue a “Charter of the Government of Mars” (including a provision for a “Mars Secretariat”) and to appoint the chief administrative officer of the Secretariat.
So you want a secretary running a whole planet?That officer might be given the title “Secretary of State of the Government of Mars”. The Secretary could issue Mars Settlement Permits in accordance with the terms of the Charter. The Secretary might also be given the power to proclaim the boundaries of national parks on Mars. Nearby settlements might be granted permission to operate concessions and tours in the parks.
This is a good idea. But the US cannot claim any territory on Mars. I disagree with establishing any sort of "park", that must be done by settlers who live on Mars, not anyone on Earth. But it might be a way to start registering land title.
And I also agree with Terraformer on this...
Terraformer wrote:That flag hurts my eyes.
You want to model the Mars government after the ineffective UN with its ineffective Secretary-General, wo unlike the secretary in the picture, can't even take dictation or fetch some coffee.
#199 Re: Martian Politics and Economy » Mapping a way forward » 2017-03-15 11:24:32
That flag hurts my eyes.
Why wouldn't America have an English system of government, after all the first people to settle America were English. Let the South Americans have a Spanish system, since they were settled by Spain, but don't you agree America should be Parliamentary, since the most successful colonies were English?
I guess the reason is because the British showed how the parliamentary system could be abused to oppress them, so they wanted something different, something with more checks and balances on it so it wouldn't oppress them the way the UK did. Like the United States, Mars would start out as a bunch of colonies, maybe established by corporations, that band together to form a Federal government for planetary defense. That seemed to work pretty well for the USA.
#200 Re: Not So Free Chat » Election Meddling » 2017-03-15 09:34:40
The American public is tired of the constant lies and with President Trump claims that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower he may also be called into obstruction as he needs to show proof of the claim.
How else would the Administration know that Trump was conspiring with the Russians to rig the 2016 Presidential elections, when will the Democrat Media stop lying about that? if they are telling the truth, then Trump was telling the truth about being spied upon by the previous Administration. So if you accept one truth you have to accept the other.
Congress demands evidence of the claims while some House Republicans admit that there is no evidence. Trump if found guilty of obstruction of justice, that is an offense that could get him impeached.
Let the Republicans impeach their own President and they will deserve what they get! They'll get a more conservative President Pence, and he will lead the effort to primary challenge all the Republican Congress people that impeached Trump! Pence will do this, he wouldn't be there if not for Trump, and if the Republicans impeach him too, it will look self serving to make Paul Ryan President of the United States, by this time the Tea Party will be an actual Political Party, I don't see how the Democrats can benefit from this, the American People will still want reform! If Congress impeaches Trump they will do so against the will of the American People, and will prove just how corrupt the two-party system is with the Democrats and Republicans!
To further impede the chances of being going to court to be found guilty he fires all the remaining AG's that were still actively working. The House intelligence committee said it would give the Justice Department until March 20 to comply with the evidence request. That's the date of the committee's first open hearing on the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible contacts between Trump associates and Russia. With which the only tapping that was going on is the computer banking signals which were being monitored and nothing else.
Check Out President Trump Blatantly Lying About ObamaCare Once Again all while trying to reassuring the masses who are worried about the loss of healthcare under the GOP Repeal and Replace plan. But Trumpcare is American Health Care Act really is “dead on arrival” according to a new report from the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation. The AARP estimates that a 64-year-old making $15,000 a year would pay $8,400 more for coverage under the proposed Republican bill than the Affordable Care Act. Overall, people in their 50s would pay 25-30 percent more in premiums under the new plan, the group projects.
‘Robin Hood in reverse’: CBO report on GOP health care plan supports Democrats’ charges
Congressional Budget Office’s report estimating that 24 million fewer Americans would be insured under the Republican health care plan 10 years from now, arguing their colleagues should abandon the effort. The CBO projected that costs eventually would be higher for older people buying coverage and lower for younger people, averaging out to a 10 percent reduction in premiums on the individual market 10 years from now. 14 million people would lose insurance next year after the bill passed.