New Mars Forums

I have opened a new topic: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 80#p237780
"Index» Life support systems» Carbon is the New Metal"

OK, so I wonder if we could "Daisy-Chain" "Planet Pass Spaceship".

The feed points for one where it launches from being in Mars orbit and then passing Earth to return to Mars Orbit. (Using Ballistic Capture).

The feed points for another one where it launches from being in Ceres orbit and then passing Mars to return to Ceres Orbit. (Using Ballistic Capture).

Each ship as it passed its pass-by planet could release materials to be aero-braked to that world or it's orbits.

Mars/Phobos/Deimos has more Carbon nearer to microgravity than does Earth/Moon.

Ceres/Asteroid Belt has access to more Carbon than Mars/Phobos/Demos.

If you could achieve a Ballistic Capture to Ceres then you have a good position to access much of the Asteroid Belt which will have a lot of Carbon in it.

Of course, Carbon Transport might be done by different means such as Electric Rocket, or maybe a thin film of Carbon could sail around the solar system on Photons.

So then perhaps the value of everything might end up valued against Carbon, if it is to be as useful as it appears it might become.

Ending Pending

Oh Dear! How will we keep the Earth from freezing up if everyone takes Carbon out of the Air?  With a Helium/Munchkin voice: "Help me, Help me Gretta!".

How Dare Me!

Ending Pending

I don't know how real this is or is not.  Somebody thinks it is OK for people like me to see it.  It is at least entertaining.  It might be that I don't actually know what is real anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ki9ca97cnM
Quote:

Quote:

Ending Pending

This looks like almost compatible with some Earth environments and perhaps some future Mars environments:

So, this mimics a freshwater lens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_(hydrology)
Image Quote:

Don Juan Pond suggests how salty the water could be outside of the fresh water lens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Juan_Pond
Image Quote:
Quote:

The water is probably too salty for most or any life.  The cold temperatures are too cold also for life, It looks like.

The fresh water however or less salty water of the Lens is likely to be able to host life.

The "Boat" that would hold the "Lens" could perhaps be made of plastic.  Generally, it would be out of the sunlight, and plastics seem to be tolerant of salts.

I have suggested a bamboo deck as I presume it is cheap to produce, but it could be something else.  I also think that under the deck might be a vapor barrier to oppose evaporation of water from the lens.

Filling most of the surface of a body of water like the Salton Sea or the Dead Sea, the evaporation rate should be reduced.  So the body of water might swell up and become less salty.

A salty body of water in the Great Basin, if it could cut its evaporation rate by 90%, might be fillable from natural rainfall.

But you might need covered canals to route occasional rainwater into the body of water.

IF 5% or 10% of the basin water is exposed, you could still have beaches and spaces for boats to travel between the islands.  It might be sensible to divert some of the Colorado River Water to fill such basins.

"Crops" could be grown in the "Lens" water, perhaps using small amounts of light and also chemicals such as Acetate and Oxygen.

Ending Pending

I have posted #251, #252, #253 today.  Now in this post I return to somethings I have worked on before.

Mars orbits should have many propulsive methods available.

Alice for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALICE_%28propellant%29
You could probably get Oxygen from Deimos and Phobos, Hydrogen from Mars and Aluminum again from Deimos and Phobos.

CO/O2 rocket engines are a possibility, Carbon and Oxygen may be available from Deimos and Phobos and is available from Mars.

Mass Drivers that shoot out Ice/Iron Bullets might be a way.  Water Ice or Dry ice.  Iron would be fine dust.  Everything for this could come from Deimos and Phobos, and maybe Hydrogen, but Hydrogen could come from Mars.

Ending Pending

Continuing with the "Panet Pass Spaceship" from the last post:

The concept of a Nuclear Thermal Booster to boost the "Planet Pass Spaceship" to pass by Earth.

Hydrogen Propellant is the best, but hard to source and hard to store.  Water as a propellant with Nuclear is said to be about as good as combustion rockets. 

So for Mars lifting water to Orbit from Mars might work well for the Nuclear Thermal Booster method.

Now want if we could do both?

What if you had a small tank of Liquid Hydrogen and a large tank of Water?  You could feed the Hydrogen into the water as a gas, perhaps dissolved into high pressure water, and possibly as Aerated bubbles.

A Booster could be tanks up with large amounts of water when in orbit of Mars.  Then a last load could be a small tank of Liquid Hydrogen.

"Hydrated Water" as in input to Nuclear Thermal propulsion might be rather better than just water.  The Hydrogen would push the expansion very nicely, but the water has much more mass than Hydrogen does.

Such Nuclear Boosters could be pushed to Mars from Earth/Moon, just one time loaded with water and Hydrogen, perhaps from Earth.

Ending Pending

My view is that the Nuclear Thermal Booster will remain in orbit of Mars after boosting the "Panet Pass Spaceship" on its pass by Earth.  Then to be reused.  There could be many "Planet Pass Spaceship".

Ending Pending

I have experimented with the idea of a "Semi-Cycler" before.  Got a lot of flak for it.  So, I will rename it a "Planet Pass Spaceship".

It seems that focus in space will involve:
1) Earth/Moon
2) Deimos/Phobos/Mars

The difference between #1 and #2 is #1 will have the best space infrastructure early on, and #2 will have the bast access to raw materials.

It is easier to lift materials from Mars itself than from Earth, if you had equivalent infrastructure.  Also, it is easier to extract materials from Deimos and Phobos than to extract materials from the Earth's Moon.

So, if you would have a "Large Spaceship" my feeling is that you can have a ship that stope in Mars orbits and launches from it.  And when it would launch, it might do a fast pass of Earth obtaining gravity power from the encounter then go back to Mars.  The reason I think that passing Earth makes sense is that since the Earth/Moon will have the better infrastructure, they could maintain, better fast shuttle services that could bring people back and fourth from the Earth/Moon<>"Panet Pass Spaceship".  So, half of this is like a Cycling Spaceship at (Earth/Moon) and half like a normal spaceship (At Deimos/Phobos/Mars).

This device could do another gravity trick at Mars which is a Ballistic Capture.  In order for people to be protected from space hazards, a "Panet Pass Spaceship" will be heavy with life support extravagance.

Quote:

So, this ship is launched from a Mars orbit after being resupplied and refurbished in Mars orbit, using materials from the 3 worlds, Deimos/Phobos/Mars.

Launching methods could be various.  Raptors-Metha Lox, Nuclear-Hydrogen, Other.  Probably as a booster system that does not leave Mars orbit.

On board could be various types of propulsions.  Perhaps Nuclear-Electric, or chemical or maybe Oxygen Mass Driver.

Two gravity maneuvers could be used.  The Earth-Pass could modify the orbit to return to Mars. 

And at Mars you would use Ballistic Capture to return into Mars orbit.  To do that you also have to at least have some electric thrust to stay in orbit of Mars.

Mars could supply water or Hydrogen for Nuclear thermal propulsions.  Deimos and Phobos can supply stony materials which contain solid substances and Oxygen.  The two moons may supply Carbon.  If not then that can be gotten from Mars itself.

There may be water ice in one or both of the two moons.  There is massive amounts of water ice on Mars Itself.

This large-scale spaceship will not need a heat shield method to go into Mars orbit and will be able to reuse some of the original energy of launch from Mars orbit to swing past the Earth/Moon and return to Mras orbit.  Also, can harvest gravity at both major planets.

Also the swing past Earth/Moon could use an Oberth Maneuver is desired: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect

The Earth/Moon system may have good infrastructure to provide rescue for fast shuttles that do not make it properly to the "Panet Pass Spaceship".

It might be possible that a Venus or Mercury pass could be used instead of or in conjunction with an Earth/Moon pass.

Ending Pending

This material is similar to that of the last post. There is some swearing so be warned.

This is either fantastic fiction or truth that is stranger than fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZejxzUY4M88
Quote:

Or it is fiction that is intended to mask reality.

I am below low level munchkins, as per intellect and power, but I am subject to the actions that occur in this world, and I presume the others here also are.

Ending Pending

Well thanks Clark.  I did more or less ask for a response, that may disqualify what I presented as being false in places.  A choice is to accept what we think we know as the truth.  Another choice is to line up various possibilities to be discussed as to clues to a possibility that some things may not be measured properly.

I appreciate your rubber room bullets.    There is a degree of fun in knowing that I annoy you or get your attention, because of your prior history here.

There is at least one skill that I have always struggled with and that is the verbal.  I think that you are quite to opposite.

For the topic of public school and gender effects that video I presented was milder, as it proposed that the founders of public education in the USA were not necessarily using malice in what they set up but were just simply not intellectually suited to the task.

Other such videos suggest that indeed they had malice in mind.  An emphasis on the verbal as being superior to all other skills could be part of such a malice.

And don't get me wrong, I think it is wonderful that a public school system was set up.  I accept that it was perhaps set up to satisfy the selfish interests of the rich, to render the populations of lesser wealth as useful in their factories.  Part of that was to make the males subordinate so they would be obedient workers.  Girls of course would be intended to be baby making machines, and perhaps also cheap labor.

The factor of putting both genders together at similar ages could exploit the early maturation on average of females, creating a circumstance of some advantage socially.

While this might have been unpleasant for some boys, I will agree that in some ways it is good training, to experience what it is to be at an unfair disadvantage.

And I appreciate the material goods that the society set up could provide.

My greater question is though what will change with society, if computers and robots will tutor children in smaller groups or individually.  And what about a boy who in time grows more muscle and fidgety and wants to move about.  In a village such a boy would likely do tasks, and learn like an apprentice.  He would not sit in chairs listening to verbal spew much of the day.

The darker intentions of the school system were to prevent the emergence of thinkers and creativity in the commoner ranks.  They said so actually.

Where I speculated on international structure, that was very speculative, but you might have to speculate, place a bet to hope to win by understanding.  Win or lose you may learn something.

The behaviors of the Europeans, reveal an arrogance, which I think is excessive.

I recall Alistair Cook a proper immigrant from Europe who did many TV programs some time ago.  He explained the history of British society historically.  The use of the verbal in rulership is interesting in this case as well.

Anglicans were allowed to attend the upper-class Colleges, and Protestants and Catholics were not.  In those places learning things like dead languages was valued.  The ruling classes in England wanted nothing to do with industry and regarded it as dirty.  Instead, they wanted plantations with servants.  Do you see at this point that the "Green" movement is very much of this level of thinking.  Deindustrialize and teach the population to want "Service" (Servant) employment.

At some points I liked Ronald Reagan.  He did seem to have such an arrogance though, a pretender to the upper classes.  The "Service" Economy. 

We can see why the British and French had an attraction to the Confederacy, as well from this.  Servants, and most of the plantation owners were in deep debt all the time as they has to spend a lot to belong to the upper classes.  The reason some of them joined the American revolution was they though that they could renege on the debts.  But they were not allowed to because the USA had to borrow money from the British after the war.

IN Britain because a commoner's choices were to become a servant who likely could not have a family, and would have a hard time owning land, then industry way the only outlet.  So they set up trade schools.  This was true for the Protestants, not sure about the Catholics.  Catholics would likely the resenting the fact that Anglicans were in the hyper verbal ruling classes.

So, trade schools were likely relatively non-verbal in emphasis, I expect.  And so the Industrial Revolution.  Inventions but of course ruling classes above that with verbal skills.

So, I return now.  Unusual characters sometimes rise to some type of power, who do not seem to exhibit extremely polished verbal skills.  Watch Elon Musk speak.  But when he says something even a verbal stumble likely has vast intellect behind it.

It is more important that words spoken connect to an important physical meaning.  It is less important to make your words pretty, pretty pretty!  Pretty words Clark!  You do have them, and also rubber room bullets for thoughts.

When I am evaluation thoughts about things, I don't even believe that I usually think in words.  So, when I am in that mode, needing to do precise language is like an anchor slowing me down.  So, when I am at top speed, verbal description of what I am thinking is a burden.

I know of someone who have incredible verbal skills: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIjGKy … 0VLO40RlOw

I like him.  I watch and wonder.  Not much like me but very interesting.  He does not try to hurt me with words, Clark.

There really could be a problem with Matriarchs.  Should they live longer than men they may inherit much wealth.  Then they may have power.  As they age, they get more Testosterone.  But they were never raised to know their limits like most boys are.

They cannot have children, they will almost certainly not go to war, but they can say things about going to war.

In the animal world are many types of mating processes.  In some cases, fertile females require males to be in a contest.  This is sometimes true for humans.  The problem with this is her genes

Her choice of mates is perhaps influenced by survival of the potential mate.  Also perhaps:
1) What does she think she wants?
2) What does she say she wants?
3) What do her genetics and epigenetics want.

She will negotiate using #1, and #2 with whomever she can, sometimes exploiting other persons along the way, but in the end she more likely will obey #3.  When she is feeling weak, she will resort to #1 and #2 most likely.  When she if fertile and ready to be impregnated, she will prefer #3.  As a process control situation this should cause her to be attracted to robust and "Winner" males.  Big dummies often being the choice.  Cave Man!

It seems that some cultures somehow made women do strange things.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that East Asians have often had power over the mating process which may have allowed males to select a mating partner based on gracile characteristics. 

Sometimes male selection desires might be for a robust woman.  A farmer of old would want a woman who could birth children and do useful work.

But after a group becomes wealthy, if the males have powers of selection they may select for Neotenous characteristics, including a big head relative to body for a bigger brain.  (That is speculation by me and not proven).

So, if a society becomes too gracile, and specialized in verbal skills, it might be subject conquest by robust dummies under certain circumstances.  Otherwise, they can rule over the robust dummies.

The two gender selection processes may keep the human race in a channel between two extremes.

What about evil grannies?  Money, power, and typically the survival of her descendants are the likely drivers for her, I think.
Sending Hoards of men off to fight in brutal wars, may be her desire if she is upper class because her powers will assure that her "Boys" and "Girls" will either not be in the front lines or may not go at all.  In fact, her power may make sure that her children will be officers and again not be as much in danger.

For her the contest might be exciting, and weak males will be killed off, and if her side wins there will be war booty which as an elite she and her group will be able to grab a lot of that.

So, perhaps blood thirsty.  And the West Europeans appear to be blood thirsty.  They went wild when the USA indicated that future view suggest that some sort of ownership of Greenland would be appropriate.

They symbolically went to war with the USA for a bit until it dawned on their dim minds that we were their protection.

Ending Pending

And by the way Clark, sometimes I clean up my verbal mistakes as there are many when I am moving fast in my mind.  But sometimes I leave some if them there and even put some in just to irritate verbal people.

Ending Pending

https://qz.com/1314814/universal-educat … ry-workers
Quote:

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE

Quote:

Ending Pending

May I have more of your "Rubber Room Bullets" Clark?

Ending Pending

This is interesting but I do not like the crybaby notions that narrator gives.  Native Americans (Sometimes), could be as violent as Vikings.

I accept both as people.  There is no need to judge the dead at this point.  They assume that the Native American genes are from captured natives.  It is quite possible that a cross-race pregnancy could have occurred in North America or Greenland.  And although yes the Vikings were violent, it is not impossible that Native Americans could be adopted to the Vikings not necessarily as conquest captives.  It has become apparent that some Vikings were not Scandinavian.  I don't like the anti-European tilt of the narrator.  I prefer a neutral evaluation.  There is not an illegal skin color.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgg_9EJ0co
Quote:

I think that the European contact with North America can be considered intermittently continuous.  Columbus stayed in Iceland for a winter, probably to consult the Islandic books on the matter.

The Church actually had put a bishop to Greenland at one point I believe.

I suspect that much of the continuity of knowledge of the Norse to Spanish has been lost or intentionally covered up.

These are things that Europeans would not have wanted their competitors to know about.

The Little Ice Age probably did punch a gap into the continuity of the process.

Ending Pending

I would like to claim here that my biggest interest in this topic is to see if we can find the structures that lead to social actions.  I don't want a crying towel.  I don't want to pronounce a judgment.  I want to explore why things that go bump in the night do so.

I am going to talk gender a bit.  I want it understood, that if indeed boys are picked on in the system, I don't necessarily think that is bad.  It may be a gift to a boy, that he understands that he will be exploited for any talent he has and will be resented for having any.  He also needs to know that if he seems to be of no use he will be despised, and methods may be found to destroy him.  It is a gift for him to see that that is true so that he can make is best decisions.

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE  Quote:

I also want to talk about the impact of computers and robots.

My theory of reality in the west at least is that a few ruler men preside over the hive mind, and particularly that hive mind of the female portion.  For instance, the leader of a church traditionally male and the congregation, below that in perceived power.  And the commoner males below the above-mentioned apparatus.  In the west Ceasar usually a King, takes some of the other powers.

It is my perception that Western Europe has fallen into a mode of "Blood Lust".  And Canada its supplicant also exhibits some of that as well.  And we have in in our lefties in the USA as well.

Where does this motivation to put men to the slaughter come from?  It has happened again and again with the Western Europeans.

A point of suspicion is the import of 3rd world men.  Possibly as a war resource.  The British did use non-Europeans against Europeans, I think both in WW2 and WWII.  Also, I was told that Hitler hoped to conquest Central Asia where he hoped to get an endless supply of fighters for his armies.

The British actively harmed the Afrikaners in the Boer war.  Even put them into concentration camps.

So there is plenty of evidence that the Europeans will harm the descendants of those who left Europe, even if they are similar in culture.  There is no race love.  In fact I think that the Europeans in Europe find Americans and other migrated peoples as a problem, as they may make it hard to exploit places where such people compete with their desires.

But the age of Robots and Computers may make this game a failure for them this time.

I have seen said by https://www.prometheanaction.com/ that Europe is ruled by Matriarch linages.

I entertain their ideas.  They of course are anti-B and maybe anti-E.

And I you don't like that I do this then I say you need to show me how their notions are wrong.  That is how we do it we deal with truth if we can.  We don't go all troglodyte and exercise blood lust.

For my part I have theories about reality.  I expect some of them to be disproved.  That is one purpose to propose them.  To find out what is not true, even if you don't yet know what is true.

At this time I entertain the idea of a Binary Fourth Turning.  That is a Yin/Yang sort of it.  From about the 20's that last masculine turning was on it's death bed.  And I think that the feminine turning was on it's death bead around 2008.  These are not established and proven, only speculative place holders of reality.

Western Europe however may be a constant feminine.

As I recall Carl Jung, said that the Catholic was Feminine, and I hold that the Anglican is also very much the same.

As I recall it, he said that the Male unconscious is based on his mother figure.  The female unconsciousness is based on a mosaic of males who influenced her.

So, if indeed matriarchs rule Western Europe, then their subconscious is that of collections of men who were in their lives.

The Matriarch knows that she will not have to do trench warfare with bayonets.  So, then to send the men out to weed out the weaklings and perhaps to bring home war booty?  I think matriarchs may not be able to handle the masculine well.  Not trained as boys are to understand  their limits or usually to get their butts kicked.  That is a good learning for boys.

I think that the afront they displayed about Greenland was a good pinch test.  To test a dog, you might pinch it to see it's reaction.  The result was not good at all.

This is a very valuable thing to know.

The E.U. was Satanic in its behavior.  NATO was much more reasonable.

But the possible danger that Europe and Canada will try to use 3rd world people to murder off communities of Americans, does exist.

But now we know about this possible danger.

Computers and Robots are a possible response.

But if computers and robots raise boys, I worry a bit that they will be too soft on the boys, and the boys will not understand the dangers that social structure present.

Ending Pending

I have this feeling that we are working on the edge between phases of matter.  In this case not working red hot iron on a forge but posed between fluid and solid thoughts.  To drill down too deep is to solidify into an instance of a device, but then to become distant from the forge.  To be too fluid in thinking is to have the iron run off of the forge as a liquid.  So, to try to hold a pose that puts you held near the forge of thoughts.

The device of the prior post is like a "Hammer Throw" and I suppose a bit like Earth based "Spin-Launch".  These types of devices might be used in orbit.  But an alternative is tethers.  Tethers have a better chance of catching an object from a differing orbit.  But for now I will focus on launching mass to a different orbit.

The hammer of the forge causes a set of thoughts to gel in my mind, concerning Deimos/Phobos/Mars.  I believe I see something special.  It is as if a higher mind left these objects as they are as a test of progression of the human race.

Deimos has the best solar energy of the three.  Phobos has the next best solar energy of the three, and Mars itself has the least profitable solar energy of the three.  (Here I am indicating orbits and surfaces).

Phobos is in danger of being destroyed by tidal forces because it is so close to Mars.  But this could be turned into an asset.  The Martian atmosphere is thin and so of an advantage in launching from the surface.  But the thin atmosphere is not that good for atmospheric breaking of spaceships.  But it has some value for that.

From post #234:

Take note of the plan to crash expended canisters onto a spot on the Moon.'

Pause to review the above..............

So they think they can  lithobrake metal to "Poincare Basin": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poincar%C3%A9_(crater)

What I am thinking is that if you make "Pig Iron" level products from Phobos you may eject them from Phobos and Aerobrake them in the atmosphere of Mars, and then Lithobrake to the surface.

I am imagining hollow teardrops as the ejected devices: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teardrop_shape.svg
Image Quote:  

https://animalia-life.club/qa/pictures/ … -and-white
Image Quote:

The method of ejection could be tether or mass driver of some kind.

The "Tears", can be made of multiple substances, with part being magnetic Iron.

The peak heating of the Tears will be according to a ratio of surface area to mass.  So a hollow tear may have lots of surface area to mass.  This may keep the peak heating down.

Now if the object is crushable on impact that may advantage the process.  The Terminal velocity will be also a ratio of surface area to mass.

The device might have a one-time heat shield coating on its windward portions.

So, Phobos might be a great place to fashion "Teardrop" or if you like, "Raindrop" objects from upgraded materials from the raw materials of Phobos.

To do this energy is needed.  In the video it is suggested that mass might be transported to orbits of Mars using large nuclear reactors, and Neumann Drive or Magdrive.  So, then what do you do with the nuclear reactors.  To land a "Hot" nuclear reactor on Mars would be very troublesome in my opinion.  But if we are going to move mass from Earth/Moon to Deimos and Phobos, then the nuclear reactors can remain as assets at these moons.

But if you are in orbits of Mars, solar energy is very attractive.  Using mirrors at about the orbit of Deimos, I think that solar energy will be about 8 times as good as on the surface of Earth.  And at Phobos, I will guess that it could be about 5 to 6 times as good as on the surface of Earth.

So, if you could make a forge for teardrops on Phobos, you could also perhaps beam power down to that forge from Deimos, and also power to the surface of Mars, and also power to spaceships.

It is as if an high power arranged this for us.

To try to do all of this metal working on the surface of Mars would run into energy problems.

But if "Teardrops" can be recovered from the surface of Mars, first you collect them with magnetism, and then you cut them apart to separate the substances.  Then you reforge them at a relatively low energy expense.

The process of ejecting these "Teardrops" from Phobos downward, will lift the orbit of Phobos by tiny amounts, but the tidal grinding of the rubble of Phobos will draw it down towards Mars.

Pause..............

So, at Phobos Metal Propellants can be manufactured, and also "Teardrops", and then also Power stations, perhaps solar and perhaps nuclear.

At Deimos, power stations and Metal Propellants could be manufactured.

Both Moons would have excess Oxygen at least and perhaps Carbon and even possibly Hydrogen.

Whey a Neumann Drive and Magdrive may be power pigs, an Oxygen Mass Driver may not be so much so.  Also, Oxygen, Carbon, and Hydrogen can be for Chemical Propellants.

So, I do not dismiss the idea that propellants for Deimos could be moved to the Earth/Moon orbital positions.  It may not be practical, or something else like Moon resources may be more practical, but it is a thing that could be evaluated.

An Oxygen Mass Driver booster could push a payload to a high Martian Orbit, by being sent power by beaming from the power stations that might be built in orbit of mars from the materials of those moons.

We could expect that synthetic gravity will be provided in the orbits of Mars.

Ending Pending

I am thinking about Counter Spinning Launchers and Tether launches.

Tether Launches may be easier to understand.

If you have a mass such as Phobos or Deimos, or an artificial mass, you can hang a tether off of that mass, either to a higher orbital altitude or a lower orbital altitude.  Then you can release loads.  If you release to a higher altitude, then the highest extent of it's orbit will be above the end of the tether.  If you release to a lower altitude, then the lowest extent of it's orbit will be lower than the end of the tether.

The orbital energy of the anchoring mass will change inverse to the energy change of the object released from the tether.

With MagDrive and/or Neumann Drive, or with an Oxygen Mass Driver, the existing energy of orbit could be modified.  So, if you send more mass up from Phobos, you could raise the orbit of Phobos with these methods of propulsion.

Also if you manufacture things to pass down a tether to Mars you can raise the orbit of Phobos.
And if you manufacture things to pass up to a higher orbit, you can lower the orbit of Phobos.

The same will be true for Deimos.

I have been pondering the idea of two counterrotating masses.  It may be that something similar might be done with that.

I am not proposing a machine, per finished concept, but something to ponder.  I do not know if gyroscopic effects will bite me on this or not.

Blue if a flat elongated disk that can be stopped to have no rotation or can extract spin from the red flywheel.

In a stopped spin, a load depicted as green can be attached to the elongated disk.

Using magnetics, the elongated disk can be spun up by counter spinning the red flywheel.

The red flywheel will need to be very strong and have a lot of mass.  the portion shown may be an axle and perhaps away from it's central constriction of circumference, it may mushroom out to resemble a dumb bell or have its own flat disks.

The device can then cast the load in a prograde or retrograde of alternate direction, releasing it to carry some energy with it.  Then you may null the elongated disk (blue), and attach another load.  But this time you may spin against the red flywheel, in the other direction.  Again, releasing a load.  While this might seem like a perpetual motion scam, if you release an similar amount of retrograde and prograde loads, the assembly could hold a similar amount of orbital energy over an average of time.  (Not promising a clean circular orbit resulting).

Should your machine be LEI+ and you want to mostly send loads to a higher altitude of orbit, then your assembly will lose orbital energy which will require compensation.

A device such as a Magdrive or Neumann Drive or perhaps an Oxygen Mass Driver might be used to provide that.

I anticipate that for Mars orbit "Ore" from Phobos or Deimos could provide the mass for those propulsion systems.  But I also think that for Phobos and Deimos it would be likely that you could send up as much mass as you sent down.

I am hoping that the disk formations will help avoid gyroscopic flip flops.

Yes, it will need some very good magnetic bearing, but then terrestrial trains seem to have that.

Ending Pending