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#101 Re: Unmanned probes » Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper » 2004-04-29 10:51:43
I have to say that I'm not very impressed by the number of people who come to these forums asking for help with their school papers, especially when the questions are as simple as this one. It would be trivial to visit NASA's Mars Rover website, scan through the press releases and look through the bullet points. What's so difficult about that? Kids today, tsk
Are you kidding?!? They should read ALL of 200 press release!!! (111+89 Sols).
Not all people like wasting their time following Mars' happenings all the day... just like we do! 
Luca
#102 Re: Unmanned probes » What are the 'Blueberries" - What are the spheres Opportunity found? » 2004-04-29 08:49:46
I?ve done a preliminary analysis of some of the soil sample micrographs, looking at size distribution patterns in the hematite blueberries at Eagle crater. The following mosaic is a good example of some soil micro-photos by the Opportunity rover:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery. … ..._br.jpg
and this non-micrograph picture of the ?Berry Bowl? site was interesting as well:
Your links have been cut and are not working. 
Luca
#103 Re: Unmanned probes » Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper » 2004-04-29 08:32:34
Luca, I must have missed something big time; but, I don't remember seeing that Spirit sighted any "blueberries" on her side of Mars -- only water effects in volcanic rock.
Err,I don't think the 'blueberries' are really blue, either. Grey hematite
"Blueberries" were found by Opportunity only, not by Spirit.
I was thinking to these images:
(http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/B3.jpg]zoom)
![http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/B3.jpg]zoom](http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/B3.jpg]zoom){kind=link}
(http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/S32.jpg]zoom)
![http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/S32.jpg]zoom](http://www.keithlaney.com/SCI/S32.jpg]zoom){kind=link}
Anyway, I put the "bluberries everywhere" into "unofficial discoveries", due to lack of evidence about their same origin.
It looks, to me, that Bonneville Crater is filled with bluberries, and that they also appear in several Spirit images; but I don't know anything abouth their chemistry, as I told.
I also remember of Spirit microscopic imagery of bluberries inside a trench, but I can't find the image now.
Anyway, can anybody fill my gaps about Spirit and Opportunity chemical/geological discoveries?
Thanks in advance.
Luca
(I have some problems whit multiple-quoting :rant: , hope you understand this message... 
)
#104 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-28 04:21:57
Endurance, we are coming! 
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .jpg]Large image http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … g]ENORMOUS image ( 1 MB)
![http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .jpg]Large](http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040427a/merb_traverse_map_sol87_br2.jpg]Large){kind=link}
![http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … g]ENORMOUS](http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040427a/merb_traverse_map_sol87.jpg]ENORMOUS){kind=link}
Luca
#105 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-28 04:17:39
Spirit got running!!! 
It covered longer distance in last 15 Sols than in previous 90 Sols!
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .jpg]Large image http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … g]ENORMOUS image
![http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .jpg]Large](http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040427a/merA_traverse_map_sol107_br2.jpg]Large){kind=link}
![http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … g]ENORMOUS](http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040427a/merA_traverse_map_sol107.jpg]ENORMOUS){kind=link}
If you want to be notified when new route maps are released, try subscribing http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?show … ry128]this topic at http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?showforum=1]this forum : several people is checking that topic, so it should be easier to have "real-time" updates.
Luca
#106 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-28 02:43:05
Have a nice jump on your chair... :;):
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … pportunity image 26/apr/2004
Luca
#107 Re: Unmanned probes » Results of Spirit and Opportunity - a quick question for my astronomy paper » 2004-04-28 01:30:16
Can anyone give me a basic summary of the work done by the rovers, and the results from the analyisis of their collected data?
Thanks!
A VERY brief summary:
- Opportunity found evidences of the existence of a salt sea on Mars in the past; "how" past, it is not (yet) known.
- Spirit didn't find those evidences yet, and it's going to the Columbia Hills to find them.
There are also several others interesting geological and chemical discoveries, but I'm not so skillfull in those arguments, so I can't help you.
I know it's really too brief for a magazine.... let's see if I am able to go a bit deeper:
Evidences found by opportunity are three:
- hematite existence: this mineral probably formed in water
- cross-layering in rocks: this mean that rocks had been under water for quite a long time
- tracks of ancient crystals: many rocks have several tracks which probably were once filled with salt crystals: so, the water had salt inside it.
"Unofficia discoveries:"
- Both of rovers found plenty of strange bluish spherules (a few millimeters in diameter), referred to as "blueberries": the two rovers landed at two opposite sites of Mars, but "blueberries" are abundant in both of sites. Their origin is still not clear.
- Mars sky is very dusty, and this limits visibility in far distances. This is also supposed to be the cause of the reddish appearance of Martian surface, but actually, when dust level is lower, sky appears to be bluish, just like some rocks whic cover Mars surface. Some rocks also appear to be blu under a layer of red dust.
Technical results:
- Both rovers were able to successfully grind inside rocks (up to 7 millimeters deep) to analyze their interior.
- The navigation system was completely successful, allowing the two rovers to move autonomously over Mars surface: they receive from Earth a command to reach a point on the surface, then they compute the best path to avoid rocks or pass over smaller ones, all without human action.
- The nominal mission was planned to continue for 90 days, but the two rovers are still fully functional, so their mission has been extended till september 2004.
- The rovers drove for several hundred of meters, and Spirit is actually going to cover a 2 Km distance to reach Columbia Hills. Previosu Mars mission, Pathfinder/Sojourner, covered, if I remember right, less than one hundred meters with its single rover "Sojourner".
Other interesting facts:
- Both rovers have 9 cameras: 2 high resolution cameras, 6 low resolution cameras for navigation purpose, and a "microscopic" camera (it actually can generate a 1024x1024 pixels image of a 30x30 mm area). First 8 cameras are in couples to allow stereo vision.
These cameras allowed rovers to send to Earth hundreds of megabytes of images of several types: B/W images, panoramic images, color images, 3D images, close-ups of martian soil and rocks.
- One of the rovers (Spirit) had an hardware problem in the first days of its mission, and it was almost lost; but it was successfully reprogrammed from Earth (about 380 millions kilometers away!), and now it is working fine.
- The rovers wer also able to dig little trenches in Mars soil, by rolling one of the six wheels while the other five where still. This allowed to study the "underground" (just a few centimeters) of Mars.
I can't remember anything else at this moment...
Luca
#108 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-27 11:54:10
Hills are eventually approaching!
During nominal mission, the rover distance from Columbia Hills didn't change so much (see included path map), but now it is eventually reducing!
I'll post color images... as soon as I'll find raw images useful to create the color frames!
Luca
#109 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-27 06:17:52
Thanks for making that turntable 3D anim Luca (so you take the L and R images, decide on a focalpoint, and then horizontally align them to this
point, then make a 2-frame animation of it?)
Sometimes I do this; other times I fix not one but two or more focal points: this results in a better 3d effect.
In above image, one focal point is the "anomaly", and the other one is the "rock" (?) just at its left; for each focal point there are 6 frames: L-R-L-R-L-R.
If you look at the image for quite a long time you will see that it "rotates" around those two objects.
its hard to tell, from this perspective it looks more like jagged lava (but theres no lava here, right?)
Not now.... maybe some millions years ago it was flowing here, then it jagged, the cone was eroded,.....
It's really a pity there is no color image of this area. I invite all of you to look for next images released by NASA: maybe rover will move without taking L2-L4-L7 snapshots of this area, but maybe it will take snapshots of this area "by chance" from another position...
Luca
#110 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-27 01:50:23
Another possibility for strange formations on Mars:
I found it at http://www.so-utah.com/capitol/goblin/h … epage.html ; that page contains very interesting photos, which let us understand how various & strange natural shapes can be!
Luca
#111 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-27 01:33:03
A new image from Mars:
I'm kidding...
This is just to show what I think about that very strange formation I posted: the photo shows the Monument Valley on Earth. That strange formation is supposed to be what remains of an ancient volcano: millions (or billions) of years after volcano stopped its activity, it was eroded by wind, but the solid lava inside was too hard to be eroded, and it remained there; you can even see the secondary channel were lava flew, on the right (the smaller pinnacle).
This formation is HUGE, several meters tall, but maybe the Mars formation had this origin, in a VERY reduced scale.
Other ideas?
Another example:
Luca
#112 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-26 04:43:23
Read
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotligh … 0128.html] Revealing Mars? True Colors, both part 1 and 2.And to show you what i mean:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … ...6a.html
[......]
But i guess you never read the pictures' description, or did you ? So, IMHO, Mars is never blue, and it never changes colors. The rovers just use different filters. Sorry to dissapoint you.
Of course I read them. And I also read about the filters used by Spirit and Opportunity: they are 16: 2 filters for Sun observations (L8 and R8), and 12 for grouond observations; right filters are all infrared filters (various frequencies), left filters cover all the visible spectrum from IR to Ultraviolet; L1 and R1 are no-filters; L2-L7 are from IR to UV; L2 = IR, L3 ~ Red, L4 ~ green, L5 ~ green , L6 = blue, L7 indigo.
So, various combinations of this filters gives different result: ths is the meaning of "false colors".
BUT, the two different color images of the same place I posted were both obtained by L2-L5-L7 combination! So, they DO reveal different enlightment of Mars surface, no doubt about this.
I suppose that rovers' camera have no exposure tuning, so when they take snapshots at noon they appear a bit overexposed (yellow in place of red, dark blue in place of light blue), while they work fine at dawn or sunset, and the contrast of resulting images is quite better. If they werebtuned to get good snapshots at noon, maybe they wouldn't see anything for the most part of the Sol due to too low enlightment.
Luca
#113 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-25 13:51:21
So, Luca, if I understand you correctly, you're saying there are times of the day on Mars when the sky is a vivid blue and so are many of the rocks?
http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/ … JPG](zoom)
](http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/2P134081436EFF2238P2530L234567M1.JPG](zoom)){kind=link}
What I think:
But this would mean we should see blue in the lower parts of the rocks... or maybe electromagnetic acctraction makes dust stick to the rocks in any part?!?
This is a remarkable position to take on the subject of the sky colour on Mars! I've been suspicious for years that the martian sky would often appear blue-tinged if the local dust content of the air were sufficiently low.
I don't believe in continous dust presence in the Martian air. I just think to dawn/noon/sunset on Earth: we have red/blue/red sky in those three moments: why souldn't it be the same on Mars?
Very few people seem to agree; most of them assuming the sky is always varying shades of orangey-pink, as NASA presents it.
Not at all! Now we have evidences! 
Now, you come along and, not satisfied with perhaps an occasionally pale blue sky, you'd have us believe the sky and the rocks are a rich shade of blue at certain times of almost every day!!
I have no quarrel with your argument about the sky, in principle, because I tend to think Mars is more Earth-like than the photos might suggest; certainly less lurid red than NASA generally portrays it.
But I've never seen rocks of the colour you present in your photos, except perhaps for crystals of copper sulphate which we used to grow on threads of cotton in saturated solutions when I was a kid in school.
This is a good point.
The only other blue mineral I know is http://www.valtrebbia.org/minerali/azzurrite.htm]this. I don't know the english name. http://www.sardegnaminiere.it/minerali. … htm](other link) http://www.minerali.it/vetrina_minerali … htm](other link)
The rocks you show us just look too blue to be realistic!
Are you sure this is what you think the actual surface of Mars would look like to an astronaut standing there?! ???
It seems to me to be very hard to believe.
I can't be sure till I'll go there...
Luca
#114 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-25 13:32:21
I don't know WHY it should be so... I'm just saying what it looks like.
Other ideas?
What's the reason of the different upper layer?!?
Why only one-side erosion?!?
Luca
#115 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-25 13:06:31
Cassioli..what the hell is that...smoke??
Do you mean this?
I dont' know. ???
Dry mud? Cold lava? Burnt wood?
Luca
#116 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 13:12:28
The plenty of spherules in opportunity's site is very impressive.
The http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … PG]Pilbara anaglyph is interesting, but... look at http://marsunearthed.com/Opportunity/Op … D.GIF]THIS anaglyph!!! :band:
![http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … PG]Pilbara](http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/stems-anaglyph.JPG]Pilbara){kind=link}
![http://marsunearthed.com/Opportunity/Op … D.GIF]THIS](http://marsunearthed.com/Opportunity/OpportunityGlyphs/Opportunity51_3D/Opportunity51_3D.GIF]THIS){kind=link}
Over soil, inside rocks, "at half way" between rocks and soil (when they are on stems)... they are EVERYWHERE!
It's defintely a strange planet!
Luca
#117 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 12:49:06
Can you explain your method to make those, cassioli?
Those... what? The color images? Simple R+G+B (=L2+L5+L7) composition. But it looks like latest images are shot twice in different moments of the Sol (looking at the same object), so we obtain two different color images.
It would be VERY cool if they took even more than two shots!
Anaglyphs? Using StereoPhoto Maker.
Luca
#118 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 09:23:03
... you can't miss this Opportunity's image!!!
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … .JPG]image
![http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … .JPG]image](http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/pancam/2004-04-23/1P135731612EFF1400P2283R1M1.JPG]image){kind=link}
... and my corresponding http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … G]anaglyph.
![http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … G]anaglyph](http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/1P135731612EFF1400P2283L7M1-anaglyph.JPG]anaglyph){kind=link}
Luca
#119 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 09:01:35
So, it was not by chance: NASA is actually taking snapshots of the same places at different moments of the Sol: maybe they are studying how enlightment changes during the Sol... just like me? 
(http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/2P135431630EFF2900P2382--L2L5L7--M1.JPG]zoom1 and http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … JPG]zoom2)
![http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … JPG]zoom2)](http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/2P135502028EFF2900P2382--L2L5L7--M1.JPG]zoom2)){kind=link}
Are you able to determine for me the time of the photos? The first part of their name is the original one.
Hey, it's REALLY hard to browse images from http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … 004-04-23/ without thumbnails previes like in lyle.org!!! :rant:
Luca
#120 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 07:57:34
Luca. I don't understand what you're trying to tell us with these blue-saturated pictures.
They are NOT saturated, they are just like Mars is! (see below...)
I take it you're not trying to say that these colours are representative of how colours actually look on Mars(?).
Not exactly...
And why is it so interesting that martian rocks should appear to change colour during the course of a day? I've just come from Ayers Rock in central Australia and that huge monolith changes from indigo to purple to red-brown to orange on a regular basis, day by day, depending on the angle of the sunlight.
That's the point!
I talked in my previous posts about difference between NASA reddish images and others' bluish images of Mars, and I think the two images of my latest post show the reason (probably) of those differences: it looks like the red component in Martian landscape changes A LOT during a Martian day!
I'm not trying to be confrontational in asking these questions, I hope you understand.
But is there an underlying point to your work in bringing these adjusted images to our attention? Just curious, that's all!
I was just trying to find an explanation for red or blue Martian skies, and I think I found it.
I know, you told me it... 
, but now I have seen it by myself! (although no sky is visible in one of the two photos, but this is not the point).
Now I am sure that Mars IS blue (in some areas), as it appears blue even in different moments of the Sol.
Luca
#121 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 05:49:28
I was trying to build a 3d color image, and I obtained this: the evidence of color changing during Martian day:
(http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … 6.jpg]zoom)
![http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … 6.jpg]zoom](http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/559COL-L2L5L6.jpg]zoom){kind=link}
(http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … 6.jpg]zoom)
![http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … 6.jpg]zoom](http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/567COL-L2L5L6.jpg]zoom){kind=link}
Both of the images are built from 2-5-6 filters!
Luca
#122 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 04:36:16
I "anaglyphized" the circles:
Luca
#123 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 04:18:57
A new strange image to discuss about
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … PG]circles
![http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … PG]circles](http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2004-04-23/2P135681301EFF3000P2387L7M1.JPG]circles){kind=link}
Luca
#124 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5" » 2004-04-24 04:05:15
Yes, it's a great picture all right! Thanks Stu and Atomoid.
I notice that many of the rocks appear to have small white protuberances - almost like sections of harder material. Is this true or do you think it's just a trick of the light?
I'm wondering about veins of quartz, or something similar, running through the rock and being exposed on the surface of the debris after an impact.
Or maybe I'm just dreaming!
Don't forget these are FILTERED images; this is a L7 (=blue) image, so if you see white, it means it's blue (if you see black, it means it is not-blue, but you can't know what it is, if you don't look at other filters).
Look at this image I build from 2P135695381EFF3100P2389L5M1.JPG and corresponding L2-L7:
http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … .JPG]Color hills (sol 106 or 105 or 107?!?)
![http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini … .JPG]Color](http://jumpjack.altervista.org/immagini/HILLS106.JPG]Color){kind=link}
If you look at raw images (http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2004-04-23/2P135695381EFF3100P2389L5M1.JPG]L5
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … 2M1.JPG]L2 http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … M1.JPG]L7), you can see L7 one has white parts in corresponding blue-parts of composed image.
![http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … 2M1.JPG]L2](http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2004-04-23/2P135695326EFF3100P2389L2M1.JPG]L2){kind=link}
![http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … M1.JPG]L7)](http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pancam/2004-04-23/2P135695262EFF3100P2389L7M1.JPG]L7)){kind=link}
Luca
#125 Re: Unmanned probes » Spirit & Opportunity *5* - Let's start with new NASA conference! » 2004-04-23 05:56:03
Its interesting how the raw images databases on NASA and lyle.org has been quiet for a couple days now (cold turkey! cant get my daily mars fix!) [...]
whats going on at NASA?? ?
I think they have two problems:
1)
(from http://mars.telascience.org/home/]http: … org/home/)
April 21, 2004: Maestro has been revived! We received great news this morning -- new Maestro funding has been approved to continue production of Maestro data releases. Our sponsors have been very pleased with the reception of Maestro by the public and want to see our outreach effort continue through the entire mission. The new releases will be less frequent but will cover a longer period of time.
Please check back for new updates.
April 16, 2004: The eighth and ninth Opportunity data sets, and the tenth and eleventh Spirit data sets have been released for Maestro. These data sets include Opportunity's continued exploration of the Eagle Crater outcrop and Spirit's arrival at Bonneville Crater. These releases cover Opportunity sols 39 - 50 and Spirit sols 60 - 69.
We regretfully announce that these will be the final Maestro data releases. The 90-sol primary mission of the Mars Exploration Rovers has been completed for Spirit; Opportunity will reach that milestone in a few days. With the Maestro public outreach effort, we've tried to share this historic adventure with you. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support. It's been a wonderful and exciting time.
= money for public distribution of data is getting short
2)
(from http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/ … ...l#sol78
sol 78, Apr 12, 2004: Opportunity Stands Down for Flight Software Update
Opportunity began a four-sol stand-down on sol 75, which ended at 8:58 a.m. PST on April 9, 2004. During this time, the rover will receive a flight software update that should make its remaining martian days even safer and more productive. The upload will run through sol 78 with a rover re-boot on sol 79, Tuesday, April 13.
Rovers were down for extraordinary mainteinance.
Luca