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Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Incidentally, I came across an interesting site describing small concretions in Utah which closely resemble the 'blueberries' we've found on Mars.
    Here are three paragraphs that caught my attention:-

One of the most prominent features has been the "blueberries", the small round formations that litter the Meridiani plains on Mars like thousands of spilled BBs. Researchers have determined that these are "concretions", sedimentary formations that form in the presence of water when dissolved minerals form around a central nucleus.
    Concretions are common on Earth, and in southern Utah they can be found in great abundance. What interests scientists is the fact that on this planet, many concretions form around organic objects, such as dead critters. Of course, this can't be readily confirmed by the instruments currently on Mars, but the potential that these represent evidence of past Martian life has folks excited.
    Most of the ones we have found have been small and BB-sized, like the Martian ones. In Oregon, however, I have found concretions in the Coast Range that are the size of softballs and have fossil clams, crabs and other ancient sea life within.

    For a look at the complete article, http://news.statesmanjournal.com/articl … 9160]CLICK HERE.
                                           

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Cassioli..what the hell is that...smoke??

Do you mean this?

I dont' know.  ???
Dry mud? Cold lava? Burnt wood?

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

I don't know WHY it should be so... I'm just saying what it looks like.

Other ideas?
What's the reason of the different upper layer?!?
Why only one-side erosion?!?

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

So, Luca, if I understand you correctly, you're saying there are times of the day on Mars when the sky is a vivid blue and so are many of the rocks?

http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/processed/ … JPG](zoom)

What I think:

But this would mean we should see blue in the lower parts of the rocks... or maybe electromagnetic acctraction makes dust  stick to the rocks in any part?!?

This is a remarkable position to take on the subject of the sky colour on Mars! I've been suspicious for years that the martian sky would often appear blue-tinged if the local dust content of the air were sufficiently low.

I don't believe in continous dust presence in the Martian air. I just think to dawn/noon/sunset on Earth: we have red/blue/red sky in those three moments: why souldn't it be the same on Mars?

Very few people seem to agree; most of them assuming the sky is always varying shades of orangey-pink, as NASA presents it.

Not at all! Now we have evidences!

Now, you come along and, not satisfied with perhaps an occasionally pale blue sky, you'd have us believe the sky and the rocks are a rich shade of blue at certain times of almost every day!! 

    I have no quarrel with your argument about the sky, in principle, because I tend to think Mars is more Earth-like than the photos might suggest; certainly less lurid red than NASA generally portrays it.
    But I've never seen rocks of the colour you present in your photos, except perhaps for crystals of copper sulphate which we used to grow on threads of cotton in saturated solutions when I was a kid in school.

This is a good point.
The only other blue mineral I know is http://www.valtrebbia.org/minerali/azzurrite.htm]this. I don't know the english name. http://www.sardegnaminiere.it/minerali. … htm](other link)  http://www.minerali.it/vetrina_minerali … htm](other link)

The rocks you show us just look too blue to be realistic!
    Are you sure this is what you think the actual surface of Mars would look like to an astronaut standing there?!  ???
    It seems to me to be very hard to believe.

I can't be sure till I'll go there... 

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Read
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotligh … 0128.html] Revealing Mars? True Colors, both part 1 and 2.

And to show you what i mean:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … ...6a.html
[......]
But i guess you never read the pictures' description, or did you ? So, IMHO, Mars is never blue, and it never changes colors. The rovers just use different filters. Sorry to dissapoint you.

Of course I read them. And I also read about the filters used by Spirit and Opportunity: they are 16: 2 filters for Sun observations (L8 and R8), and 12 for grouond observations; right filters are all infrared filters (various frequencies), left filters cover all the visible spectrum from IR to Ultraviolet; L1 and R1 are no-filters; L2-L7 are from IR to UV; L2 = IR, L3 ~ Red, L4 ~ green, L5 ~ green , L6 = blue, L7 indigo.
So, various combinations of this filters gives different result: ths is the meaning of "false colors".

BUT, the two different color images of the same place I posted were both obtained by L2-L5-L7 combination! So, they DO reveal different enlightment of Mars surface, no doubt about this.

I suppose that rovers' camera have no exposure tuning, so when they take snapshots at noon they appear a bit overexposed (yellow in place of red, dark blue in place of light blue), while they work fine at dawn or sunset, and the contrast of resulting images is quite better. If they werebtuned to get good snapshots at noon, maybe they wouldn't see anything for the most part of the Sol due to too low enlightment.

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

A new image from Mars:

I'm kidding... 
This is just to show what I think about that very strange formation I posted: the photo shows the Monument Valley on Earth. That strange formation is supposed to be what remains of an ancient volcano: millions (or billions) of years after volcano stopped its activity, it was eroded by wind, but the  solid lava inside was too hard to be eroded, and it remained there; you can even see the secondary channel were lava flew, on the right (the smaller pinnacle).

This formation is HUGE, several meters tall, but maybe the Mars formation had this origin, in a VERY reduced scale.

Other ideas?

Another example:

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Another possibility for strange formations on Mars:

I found it at http://www.so-utah.com/capitol/goblin/h … epage.html ; that page contains very interesting photos, which let us understand how various & strange natural shapes can be!

Luca

atomoid

Member

From: Santa Cruz, CA

Registered: 2004-02-13

Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Thanks for making that turntable 3D anim Luca (so you take the L and R images, decide on a focalpoint, and then horizontally align them to this point, then make a 2-frame animation of it?), that weird root-like object sticking up http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/1P1357 … .html]from sol 85 (and also in the http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/stereo … P.jpg]lyle 3D anaglyph) shows it has a very thin leg to stand on. if its not some sort of excavated mineralized hot spring outflow casing, then maybe its a remnant of a larger rock below the ground, almost all weathered away just leaving this hardest part of it. is it the blueberry bedrock? its hard to tell, from this perspective it looks more like jagged lava (but theres no lava here, right?)

...while were waiting for Opportunity to view meow closeups of the "root", here are some some very odd & beautiful images:
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA05708]East Candor Layers http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA05739]Marte Valles Crater "Island"
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalo … 742]Summer South Polar Cap http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA05748]North Polar Dunes

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"I think it would be a good idea". - [url=http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mahatma_Gandhi/]Mahatma Gandhi[/url], when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Thanks for making that turntable 3D anim Luca (so you take the L and R images, decide on a focalpoint, and then horizontally align them to this
point, then make a 2-frame animation of it?)

Sometimes I do this; other times I fix not one but two or more focal points: this results in a better 3d effect.
In above image, one focal point is the "anomaly", and the other one is the "rock" (?) just at its left; for each focal point there are 6 frames: L-R-L-R-L-R.
If you look at the image for quite a long time you will see that it "rotates" around those two objects.

its hard to tell, from this perspective it looks more like jagged lava (but theres no lava here, right?)

Not now.... maybe some millions years ago it was flowing here, then it jagged, the cone was eroded,.....

It's really a pity there is no color image of this area. I invite all of you to look for next images released by NASA: maybe rover will move without taking L2-L4-L7 snapshots of this area, but maybe it will take snapshots of this area "by chance" from another position...

Luca

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

*Thanks for posting those pics, Atomoid.  I've seen the "northern polar dunes" pic, but the others...wow.  East Candor Layers are particularly weird (what's up with that??).  The upper formation in Marte Valles looks a bit like an eyeball. 

Summer southern polar cap look like blood cells in a microscope slide.

--Cindy 

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Hills are eventually approaching!

During nominal mission, the rover distance from Columbia Hills didn't change so much (see included path map), but now it is eventually reducing! 

I'll post color images... as soon as I'll find raw images useful to create the color frames!

Luca

atomoid

Member

From: Santa Cruz, CA

Registered: 2004-02-13

Posts: 252

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Fig Newtons:  Cake or cookie?  The debate rages on! 

...i have always been perplexed by what Fig newtons are, but then they started making all sorts of different flavors and they just call them "Newtons" now. officially, nabisco says theyre "cookies". And then i read a National Geographic article in 1998 with big color pictures about fig wasps and it permanently ruined my appetite for eating anything fig-related. But as an unwitting child of the seventies the commercial of the singing fat guy in the fig suit is irreversibly burned into my brain (even more so than plop-plop-fizz-fizz) and it goes:

ooey gooey rich and chewy inside,
   tender flaky golden cakey outside,
      put the inside in the outside, and its good, darn tootin!
         its the fig-fig newton!
            here's the tricky part, the fig-fig newton!
               one more time! the fig-fig newton!

(sorry to go off tangent in a "Mars" forum, but fig newtons have a very high energy per weight ratio so it could be argued that they might make a good "taste of home" food for settlers morale-support... really, i dont own stock in nabisco or anything, the generic brands were just as tasty)

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"I think it would be a good idea". - [url=http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mahatma_Gandhi/]Mahatma Gandhi[/url], when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Have a nice jump on your chair... :;):
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport … pportunity image 26/apr/2004

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Spirit got running!!! 

It covered longer distance in last 15 Sols than in previous 90 Sols!

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .jpg]Large image  http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … g]ENORMOUS image

If you want to be notified when new route maps are released, try subscribing http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?show … ry128]this topic at http://mer.rlproject.com/index.php?showforum=1]this forum : several people is checking that topic, so it should be easier to have "real-time" updates.

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Endurance, we are coming! 

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … .jpg]Large image http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ … g]ENORMOUS image ( 1 MB)

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Double-strange photo:

  http://www.lyle.org/mars/imagery/2N1362 … .html]zoom

A strange moment to take a snapshot (dawn? sunset? it is the first time, I remember... or not?).
And... what the hell is "L0" filter?!? I always thought they were L1-L7, with L1=empty filter!  :rant:

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

And... what the hell is "L0" filter?!? I always thought they were L1-L7, with L1=empty filter!  :rant:

Oh, sh*t, it's a NAVcam, not PANcam, sorry... 

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

If only Spirit wasn't so in a hurry!   :rant: 
Look at what interesting layered little rock is there! 

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit … .JPG]image

Luca

cassioli

Member

From: Italy

Registered: 2004-02-23

Posts: 218

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

If http://www.space4case.com/mars/mars7/mars145.html]this page is right  , we are going to an island! 

Luca

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

*awesome* movie of Spirit's first 90 days...
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-i … 2.mov]NASA (Warning: 8.9MB! .mov format)

it is a 90 sec b/w series of *all* hazcams (i think, the ones with the 'miniworld' distortion effect) and inserts of the microscope zooming in and out... Great.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/rover-i … 1.mov]This is a slightly smaller version: 6MB -ish not recommended, IMO, the larger one is already quite heavily compressed...

Arccos

Member

From: Czechia

Registered: 2004-01-07

Posts: 46

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

The movie is really stunning. That's what I call 'a comprehensive summary' . I would appreciate better resolution though.

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My knowledge of the English language is poor - but still I'm here .

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

Yes, a bit dissapointing to see the blurred frames in parts of the film...

BTW: How Endurance got its name: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl … 9243]Scott Maxwell on Slashdot

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: Spirit & Opportunity *6* - continue on from thread "5"

*Hey?  Is anyone else here getting tired of the phrase "Opportunity Rocks While Spirit Rolls!" affixed to just about every frickin' news item on the 'net?  :sleep:

Can't they think of a few new and exciting, *different* slogans?  Repetition, sheesh.  :down:

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)