New Mars Forums

Bet you though that any SDV will keep for the most part the standing army that the shuttle has. It may well be the cheapest to actually design and build but I wonder if over time it becomes the more expensive option.

Still with an SDV we will get a decent quaranteed throw weight designed straight into the vehicle rather than have to rely on simply putting more and more booster side by side and adding SRBs to get the same capacity. As the more you attach to a basic vehicle like Atlas or Delta just increases the possibility of a failure in one segment so destroying a whole mission.

Id much prefer a clean sheet HLV but I can quarantee it wont happen.

Ah the benefit of modern civilisation, RED TAPE

So that explains your wish to go to Mars a secret love of all things red

Seems NASA is now looking for a more cheaper option for its flights to the ISS and into LEO.
http://www.space-travel.com/news/rlv-05a.html]Spacerace 2

Still for any TSTO RLV to make a real commercial reason for existence it must have a place to go. But frankly I find that the ISS will not require such a creation. Still hopefully in the future with the increased launches of people needed a decision to build such a spaceplane will come.

So for a spaceplane idea how about this
http://www.bristolspaceplanes.com/proje … l]Spacecab

Still will anyone put the cash to develop such a plane especially as there will still be a need for a heavy launch cpacity that TSTO spaceplanes just cannot deal with.

Seen a programme on discovery tonight about a cowboy from texas who has got a british firm to make a submarine for him so he can take tourists down and see wrecks.

Apparently like yachts and powerboats no one needs a license to drive a submarine. And since this submarine is using modern materials and benefitting from some now very cheap items (fork lift batteries for power etc) it really could become a very popular pastime.

Still there has been a general revelution in underwater technology and with systems like deepflight showing what could be done I can see someone trying to create an underwater settlement sooner rather than later. Especially with a general reduction in prices for things like steelwork to allow for large structures to be made.

There is a Scottish lawyer who put a claim to the Sun as no one else had and we now all owe him a few billion years of energy charges. He did it to show the stupidity of the current laws dealing with extra terrestrial property.

The idea that anyone can claim large parts of the Moon or Mars without actually being there is anathema to me and it wont be until someone actually does go that it will be shown as a very stupid gift fad. Especially as the first nation that goes there will simply ignore any such claim as a worthless piece of paper.

There is an organisation called the Lunar republic that actually intends to go to the moon by selling land there.
http://www.lunarrepublic.com/]Lunar Republic

The only way to stop these ridiculous claims and actually interest buisness and Nations to go out there is to have an outer space treaty where all nations are signatory that gives legal protection to peoples claims as long as they are being "worked" and allowing them to use materials so gleaned and to be able to get a profit for them or to not have to pay every other country a share for its use.

Then it really comes down to if Mars does not have enough we will have to find it and then deliver it.

This is frankly a horrendously expensive proposal but if it is the only choice then it will just have to be. It can be done if it is considered an over time event with Mass packets of nitrogen ice fired to Mars every couple of weeks.

One advantage of crashing regular consignments of nitrogen ice onto Mars will be it will create heat, another bonus for terraforming.

Feeding and supplying the people who go to Mars is the point. We will need to develop the Infrastructure for these people and that means a large amount of Greenhouses and developing plants that are resistant to the radiation that Mars has and also thrive in poor light conditions. Other problems consist of how do we get enough energy to crack the soil to get the oxygen we need. You see power supply is a problem as well Mars gets a lot less sunlight as it is further away so we will need Nuclear or Fusion if developed to power the Bases.

And infrastructure is the point we can build it as long as we have materials and we have people to run it. So now we need people to build and make things or at the least control the hordes of robots doing the jobs.

Still it will need a lot of people to terraform a planet and we are talking tens of thousands. And until they are in place there will not be any terraforming.

Dook it will be hundreds of years before there is an atmosphere that is breathable on Mars. If you dont want to start manned colonisation till then I can truly say that you will find it full of other countries settlers. And with a colonisation rate of only 10 to 20 people a year it frantically is not worth it. At that rate deaths by natural causes will cause your colony to fold.

In fact using the dictionary what you describe is not colonisation but settlement. Colonisation refers to large scale movement of people settlement is more appropiate for the numbers you wish to move.

Dook do you even know that Asteroids form into classes and these classes are based where they roughly can be found in the solar system. A cycler orbit is where we use as limited amount of power as possible to increase fuel efficiency. The use of cyclers was proposed by even the likes of Buzz Aldrin to allow efficient transport between the Earth and Mars for this to work you have to actually enter the asteroid belt. But we dont need cyclers to get resources from the asteroids but we do need is fuel. And we can get it from the asteroids.

http://www.spacer.com/news/tourism-02b.html]Cyclers as proposed by Buzz Aldrin

Buzz Aldrins proposal on cyclers.

Where is this water? Easy its on the planet so is it useful to provide fuel for spacecraft oh thats easy, No.
it is only useful when you can get it to the spacecraft and at over 1000$ US dollars a pound then it frankly is too expensive. And to get it from Mars costs a lot more it has the added pain of needing it to be processed. And a Nuclear Rocket the best power source we have at present for any decent powered manned craft would need a lot of it tons actually. So if we can get it from the asteroids and those dark regions of the Moon then we have a lot  more cheaper spaceflight and a chance to get to Mars sooner. A rocket must carry ALL its fuel up with it may need and any capacity left is what we call the payload. In space as we are not fighting atmosphere and as strong gravity forces we can get a lot more out of a pound of fuel. So fuel from Asteroids/Moon is a very very attractive idea in fact it is the only way to go.

People need a space to grow and be able to have children and live in an enviroment that is a great place to live where there medical needs and all reasonable needs are met. Like most western countries are now. So on Earth there is just not enough resources to go around unless the western countries take a severe cut in there lifestyles. And even then its a dicey thing. No what I want is for everyone to be able to live as lords and enjoy all the benefits that Science and medicine are able to give and have children in the security that they will not starve to death or have to sell themselves to get a little food in for there pain and diseased wracked bodies.

Ah but if you read my post you will note I said there is cpacity for 70 Trillion people to be kept in very very good lifestyles, not that there will ever be that many people but then again im not a psychic so who knows. And so who is going to terraform Mars, People. How are they going to get there, Cylinders (with engines). What are they going to live in when they get there. Habitats (read cylinders).
But what is proposed for space colonies is actually a better place to live than Mars it will have Earth standard Gravity and atmosphere and a lot of room. It will have good food and unlimited resources and power and complete radiation protection. Now I have a question for you Dook if the Asteroids give this why should we send people to Mars where they would be living in the modern equivalent of slums for space and with a lot of things affecting them. And it will take at least a 1000 years for us to Terraform Mars. So why colonise Mars if we use your arquements Dook ???

Dook the benefit you gain by utilising asteroidal water as a fuel source is that you can send a tanker to a fuel stop fill up its fuel tanks and carry enough back to Earth to do the same mission 12 times. Soon we have a lot of fuel for other purposes in usable areas and a means to start collecting asteroidal materials for other purposes like building and or missions to Mars.

And Dook if they go the way of space colonies like oNeill cylinders etc then it wont be 1 million it will be 70 trillion people that can live very well on materials available in the asteroids.

Still with skinsuits they would have to be made of some really strong but still flexible material. But then again I would prefer something a wee bit more defensive a bit of armor or something to ensure im a lot more protected from falls etc.